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Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 19 2009,17:45) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2009,08:37) Quote (Gene @ Aug. 18 2009,21:34) WJ………..Dump those false TRINITARIAN TEACHINGS, And you will be amazed How simple thing become. Let the mind that was in Christ be in you and you will worship who Jesus worshiped. Jesus lived to the glory of the FATHER ONLY, We must also. IMO peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene
LOLThats funny!
You have some here that believe the Holy Spirit is the Father, and some here that believe the Holy Spirit is an “IT”, and we have you that believes that the Holy Spirit is an “Intellect” and you tell me to dump my doctrine?
Actually those who are saying the Spirit is an it are saying that “IT” is the Holy Spirit of God The Father and being that “IT” The Holy Spirit of God teaches “IT” is “Intellectual”But you believe that God gives som of “HIM” another being to whom he wants and yet you say this Spirit has it's own will, if it has it's own will then why is it GIVEN?
Hi BDI do not expect a Muslim to understand how God is one with his Spirit and can be every where at any time.
God is a being right?
WJ
Hi All!
It is claimed by the Henotheist and the Arians that the Holy Spirit is not a person but rather an “It” or the Fathers personal Spirit or some claim that he is just an amorphous power.
Also it is claimed that the Father does not live in us but only his Spirit which is an “It”, so that is how the Father lives in us!
The title of this thread is “Did Jesus have the same spirit as believers?, Is god in you or an “it”?”
It has been constantly brought up by the anti-Trinitarians that Jesus didn’t do any miracle or in fact anything on his own, implying that it is the Father God in him, therefore implying that Jesus was some sort of puppet on a string that doesn’t deserve to get any glory for anything that he did! But wait a minute, according to their theology the Father himself is not in the believer. Yet what is funny is that when it is convenient they claim that the Father is in him!
If Jesus is our example and the “Father is in him” then the Father is also in us!
So basically they are calling Jesus a liar when they say the Father personally is not in him when he says…
But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that “the Father is in me, and I in the Father”.
John 10:38Jesus clearly says that “The Father is in him”, however those with Arian glasses on always love to point out that if the Father was in Jesus then he cannot be God, yet Jesus wanted those who heard his words know that he was also in the Father which of course does not prove the Father is not God.
Jesus statement is actually claiming equality with the Father for he is making himself equal to the Father by saying he is also in the Father! Some will say that we are in the Father, but that is only because we are in him (Jesus).
Jesus also said…Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: “the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. John 10:25
This is also an amazing statement of equality for Jesus is claiming that the works “HE DOES” in the Fathers name “bear witness of him”, and to confirm this later in the chapter he says…
”And I give unto them eternal life”; and they shall never perish, “neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand”. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE. verse 30
Little wonder the Jews took up stones to stone him because they are hearing him say that “His works testify of him” and tops it with “He is one with the Father or God”.
A couple of things to note in these passages are that Jesus claims to be able to give “Eternal life to his sheep’. This must infuriate them because no man could give life to anything or anyone especially “eternal life”, not to mention Jesus claims Gods people as his sheep! Also, it must further infuriate them by making himself equal to the Father by saying equally with the Father, “no man can pluck them out of his hand” and claim in the same breath that “his Father is greater than all and that he is one with the Father”.
To this day it infuriates the gainsayers to claim that Jesus is God, one with the Father.
Then Jesus clarifies that his works are the Fathers as well as his…
”If I do not the works of my Father”, believe me not. “But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, “that the Father is in me, and I in him”. John 10:37, 38
Therefore Jesus is making very clear that the Father dwells in him and he dwells in the Father. If the Father is not in Jesus then Jesus is not in the Father, and if Jesus and the Father are not in us then we are not in them
Which brings us to the question, “Did Jesus have the same spirit as believers?, Is god in you or an “it”?”.We know that Jesus was given the Holy Spirit without measure, and we know that by that same Spirit he did many works, for the Father and the Spirit were present in him also doing the works!
Conclusion;
If the Holy Spirit was given to Jesus without measure then the Holy Spirit could not be the Fathers personal Spirit for the Spirit was given, therefore the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit lived in Jesus and lives in the believers today!
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize “that Christ Jesus is in you–unless, of course, you fail the test“? 2 Cor 13:5
WJ
Hi WJ:
You say:
Quote Huh? This scripture also says that “he shall *receive” of mine, (Jesus)”,. I already showed you that he explained what he meant by this. All things are his because God has given everything to him. He is God's heir.
Quote Hbr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; About this:
Quote Do you agree that Jesus is speaking of the Father dwelling within him and will indwell born again believes after his ascension into heaven? No, for scriptures say Jesus was given the Spirit without measure…
Nevertheless, it is the same Spirit. Jesus stated that he was dwelling with them and would be in them. He also stated that the Father in him was doing the works. The Father's throne is in Heaven, but he can be everywhere by His Spirit. And so, why could he not speak from heaven even as His Spirit was shown coming on Jesus. God was confirming him as His Son.
God is a living person, with a mind, a free will. and emotions. His Spirit is the life that He lives, but the life that proceeds from his soul. And a person is known by the life that he lives. What he does determines who he is.
The comforter is the Holy Spirit of God, the Spirit of Truth that proceeds from the Father, and not a third person. If Jesus said the Father dwelt in Him, how did he dwell in him except by His Spirit?
Quote 1Cr 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Cr 2:10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Cr 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.Quote Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: About the following:
Quote What is the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit, WJ? It appears that it is speaking of “one name”, and not three different names. Also, you know that there is some question about whether or not this scripture was in the original manuscripts. Of course, when it does not agree with your doctrine then the scriptures have been tampered with.
No Marty, Matthew 28:19 is found in over 5000 thousand manuscripts both in the Byzantine and the NU text.
Why then do the Apostles just baptize in the name of Jesus? But even if this scripture is valid, I have pointed out to you that the name is singular which would imply unity in purpose. Not three separate names. We know the name of the Father is YHWH, and the name of the Son is Jesus. What is the name of the Holy Spirit, WJ?
About this:
Quote Quote
Jhn 15:1 ¶ I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Jhn 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.Your point is?
The husbandman is “One” with the vine!
Yes, they are two different individuals, but are “One in the purpose of the salvation of mankind”.
Quote Jhn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. About the following:
Quote And you ask me: Quote
So does God live in you body which is his Temple Marty?Yes, God dwells within me by His Holy Spirit as my helper, and He dwells within me as I learn to apply the doctrine of Christ to my life (the spirit of His Son). You know that old song, “It is no longer I that liveth but Christ that liveth in me”.
Love in Christ,
MartyOk, It looks like what you just said is “God (the Father) dwells within me by his Holy Spirit (The Comforter) and… (Christ that liveth in me)”.
So you have the three, Father, Son and the Holy Spirit!
Yet we know we only have “One Spirit” and “One God” living in our Temple!
I can't understand how you get three out of this, WJ. I said the Father dwells within me by his Spirit (that is not two but One), and Son dwells within me by the commandments that came from God to humanity through him as I learn to apply them to my daily life. That makes two, the Father and the Son dwelling within me, and this agrees with the following scripture:
Quote 2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. I hope that I have addressed all of your questions. I did not want to keep quoting the same scriptures over and over again and making these posts longer and longer. We are just re-hashing the same thing over and over again.
I love you and desire the very best that God has to offer for you.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi Marty
Is the Holy Spirit the Father, and if he is, then who is it praying here and who is he praying to?
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the “Spirit himself intercedes for us” with groans that words cannot express. Rom 8:26
Who is the Spirit interceding to?
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2009,18:03)
Why then do the Apostles just baptize in the name of Jesus?
There is your answer, because everything is done in the name of Jesus and not the Father!Do you see any Apostle saying “in the name of YHWH be healed”? No but what you do see is…
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is”NONE OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN GIVEN AMONG MEN”, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12
Jesus is the name above every name!
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2009,18:03) But even if this scripture is valid, I have pointed out to you that the name is singular which would imply unity in purpose.
No, more like unity in nature! Names in the Hebrew culture implied nature!But, Jesus says there are “Three” does he not? Notice that the verse has a “name singular” for three and all three have the definite article which is proof that Jesus is making a distinction between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit!
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2009,18:03)
Not three separate names. We know the name of the Father is YHWH, and the name of the Son is Jesus. What is the name of the Holy Spirit, WJ?
Marty do you know of a scripture where Jesus called the Father by his name?Sorry Marty the name has been lost and I believe it is because the Father allowed it to be so for the name “Jesus”, Yashua means “YHWH is salvation”. So your point that the Spirit has no name is a straw! Jesus speaks of the Father by the title “Father, and he speaks of the Holy Spirit by the title “Comforter”, the Holy Spirit!
The only name we need to know for the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit is Jesus, the name above all names, for the fulness of Deity is in him, the one who has all authority and power, that is why the Apostles baptized in his name and in fact did everything in his name!
WJ
Hi WJ:
You ask:
Quote Is the Holy Spirit the Father, and if he is, then who is it praying here and who is he praying to? In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the “Spirit himself intercedes for us” with groans that words cannot express. Rom 8:26
Who is the Spirit interceding to?
This is not easy to understand, but the best that I can say is as the Spirit searches the deep things of God, the Spirit also searches our hearts, and intercedes to the mind of God letting Him know what is in our hearts.
About the following:
Quote Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2009,18:03) Why then do the Apostles just baptize in the name of Jesus?
There is your answer, because everything is done in the name of Jesus and not the Father!
Do you see any Apostle saying “in the name of YHWH be healed”? No but what you do see is…
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is”NONE OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN GIVEN AMONG MEN”, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12
Jesus is the name above every name!
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2009,18:03)
But even if this scripture is valid, I have pointed out to you that the name is singular which would imply unity in purpose.No, more like unity in nature! Names in the Hebrew culture implied nature!
But, Jesus says there are “Three” does he not? Notice that the verse has a “name singular” for three and all three have the definite article which is proof that Jesus is making a distinction between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit!
Jesus means “Jehovah is salvation”, and therefore, I say that this means unity in purpose. Yes it says, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God by His Spirit through the Son is the salvation of mankind.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2009,20:01) Hi WJ: You ask:
Quote Is the Holy Spirit the Father, and if he is, then who is it praying here and who is he praying to? In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the “Spirit himself intercedes for us” with groans that words cannot express. Rom 8:26
Who is the Spirit interceding to?
This is not easy to understand, but the best that I can say is as the Spirit searches the deep things of God, the Spirit also searches our hearts, and intercedes to the mind of God letting Him know what is in our hearts.
About the following:
Quote Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2009,18:03) Why then do the Apostles just baptize in the name of Jesus?
There is your answer, because everything is done in the name of Jesus and not the Father!
Do you see any Apostle saying “in the name of YHWH be healed”? No but what you do see is…
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is”NONE OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN GIVEN AMONG MEN”, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12
Jesus is the name above every name!
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2009,18:03)
But even if this scripture is valid, I have pointed out to you that the name is singular which would imply unity in purpose.No, more like unity in nature! Names in the Hebrew culture implied nature!
But, Jesus says there are “Three” does he not? Notice that the verse has a “name singular” for three and all three have the definite article which is proof that Jesus is making a distinction between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit!
Jesus means “Jehovah is salvation”, and therefore, I say that this means unity in purpose. Yes it says, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God by His Spirit through the Son is the salvation of mankind.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi MartyThanks for your honesty!
You are greatly loved here my friend!
Blessings WJ
WJ……….It's amazing how you can tare down so many scriptures to try to prove your points, and how you leave off certain words that are there like 2 Cor 13:5 Where is really says…> “(examine yourselves) Whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves, know ye not your own selves (HOW) that Jesus Christ is in you except ye be reprobates?” know you not your own selves (HOW) Christ Jesus is IN YOU. The question here is (HOW) he is in Us , answer He is in us by the Same Spirit that was in Him , The Spirit of GOD, that's (HOW) Jesus is in us and we in Jesus.
Jesus also said that GOD was SPIRIT, and that (NO) Man Has ever seen Him, in fact Jesus said YOU can't see Spirit (intellect) you can only see the effects of it because it is what animates the body, so obviously a SPIRITS or (Intellects) are NOT and Being, it is (INTELLECT) or mind of a being. Now there is a Spirit (intellect) of Man which He receives from the world and there is Spirit (intellect) From God which He receives From GOD the FATHER, a being must have (BOTH) a SPIRIT and a BODY and he becomes a living SOUL, as we and the angles do. GOD does (NOT) have a BODY He lives vicariously through His creation. That why we have Scriptures where God says thing like, where is the house you can build for me and He is near all of us and even in our mouths, and God can be (IN) all and Through ALL, and Jesus could honestly say the FATHER was (IN) HIM. The Father is in all who Have His Spirits (intellects) in them, That (HOW) He is in Us and Jesus. WJ, ONLY ONE TRUE GOD IN ALL AND THROUGH ALL> IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 19 2009,20:16) WJ……….It's amazing how you can tare down so many scriptures to try to prove your points, and how you leave off certain words that are there like 2 Cor 13:5 Where is really says…> “(examine yourselves) Whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves, know ye not your own selves (HOW) that Jesus Christ is in you except ye be reprobates?” know you not your own selves (HOW) Christ Jesus is IN YOU. The question here is (HOW) he is in Us , answer He is in us by the Same Spirit that was in Him , The Spirit of GOD, that's (HOW) Jesus is in us and we in Jesus.
Jesus also said that GOD was SPIRIT, and that (NO) Man Has ever seen Him, in fact Jesus said YOU can't see Spirit (intellect) you can only see the effects of it because it is what animates the body, so obviously a SPIRITS or (Intellects) are NOT and Being, it is (INTELLECT) or mind of a being. Now there is a Spirit (intellect) of Man which He receives from the world and there is Spirit (intellect) From God which He receives From GOD the FATHER, a being must have (BOTH) a SPIRIT and a BODY and he becomes a living SOUL, as we and the angles do. GOD does (NOT) have a BODY He lives vicariously through His creation. That why we have Scriptures where God says thing like, where is the house you can build for me and He is near all of us and even in our mouths, and God can be (IN) all and Through ALL, and Jesus could honestly say the FATHER was (IN) HIM. The Father is in all who Have His Spirits (intellects) in them, That (HOW) He is in Us and Jesus. WJ, ONLY ONE TRUE GOD IN ALL AND THROUGH ALL> IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Hi GeneQuote (Gene @ Aug. 19 2009,20:16) ONLY ONE TRUE GOD IN ALL AND THROUGH ALL> IMO With that I agree!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2009,09:50) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 19 2009,17:40) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2009,05:07) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 19 2009,12:56) to also get back on this topic as the Lord God reveals to me at this very moment, we already know that Jesus is not one God with the Holy Spirit of God and that is revealed in this verse: Matthew 12 (King James Version)
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
This should conclude this matter.
Hi BDNo proof that Jesus is not God, for the Scriptures declare he is, but it is proof that an “IT” cannot be blasphemed!
WJ
Of Course it is.The Holy Spirit of God is the Spirit that cannot be blaphemed so obviously if you can blaspheme Jesus and be forgiven and cannot blaspheme the Holy Spirit and be forgiven then it stands to reason that they are not equal which is the whole basis of the trinity i.e. a triune God with equal aspects.
If the Holy Spirit of God cannot be blaphemed that would mean God cannot be blasphemed and be forgiven. So Jesus cannot be “God” and equal to the Holy Spirit of God.
So Jesus says in one place The Father is greater he is and then in another place whoever blasphemes the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. So you can blaspheme the lesser without Blaspheming the Greater, therefore the greater is of Higher Value and Sovereign as the blaspheming of Jesus does not affect the forgiveness or mercy of God but not even Jesus can help you if you Blaspheme The Holy Spirit not even Jesus can “save” you in this world or the next.
Truly The Father is The Only True God and He gives of His Holy Spirit to whom He pleases.
Hi BDYou totally missed my point BD.
The Holy Spirit can be blasphemed therefore the Holy Spirit cannot be an “It” or some amorphous power!
The reason there is no forgiveness for those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit is because it is the Holy Spirit that leads us to Jesus who forgives sins!
Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor 12:3
WJ
WJ
What this shows is that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not equal in honour or Authority and the reason for that is The Holy Spirit is The Holy Spirit of God. But look you can Blaspheme Jesus and be forgiven.Matthew 12: (King James Version)31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come
If Jesus was God you could not curse or blaspheme him and be forgiven look: especially 15
Leviticus 24:15-17 (King James Version)
15And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin.
16And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.
This should prove to you beyond a shadow of a doubt that if you can curse/Blaspheme Jesus and be forgiven then he cannot be God(By The Way The Holy Spirit led me to these verses and conclusions today, God willing you will see and hear because I love you and wish for you not to perish but to be fruiful and multiply His(God's) grace upon you, even in the name of Jesus.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2009,09:50) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 19 2009,17:40) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2009,05:07) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 19 2009,12:56) to also get back on this topic as the Lord God reveals to me at this very moment, we already know that Jesus is not one God with the Holy Spirit of God and that is revealed in this verse: Matthew 12 (King James Version)
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
This should conclude this matter.
Hi BDNo proof that Jesus is not God, for the Scriptures declare he is, but it is proof that an “IT” cannot be blasphemed!
WJ
Of Course it is.The Holy Spirit of God is the Spirit that cannot be blaphemed so obviously if you can blaspheme Jesus and be forgiven and cannot blaspheme the Holy Spirit and be forgiven then it stands to reason that they are not equal which is the whole basis of the trinity i.e. a triune God with equal aspects.
If the Holy Spirit of God cannot be blaphemed that would mean God cannot be blasphemed and be forgiven. So Jesus cannot be “God” and equal to the Holy Spirit of God.
So Jesus says in one place The Father is greater he is and then in another place whoever blasphemes the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. So you can blaspheme the lesser without Blaspheming the Greater, therefore the greater is of Higher Value and Sovereign as the blaspheming of Jesus does not affect the forgiveness or mercy of God but not even Jesus can help you if you Blaspheme The Holy Spirit not even Jesus can “save” you in this world or the next.
Truly The Father is The Only True God and He gives of His Holy Spirit to whom He pleases.
Hi BDYou totally missed my point BD.
The Holy Spirit can be blasphemed therefore the Holy Spirit cannot be an “It” or some amorphous power!
The reason there is no forgiveness for those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit is because it is the Holy Spirit that leads us to Jesus who forgives sins!
Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor 12:3
WJ
WJ
You mean like this?Galatians 3:12-14 (King James Version)
13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2009,10:51) Hi Marty Is the Holy Spirit the Father, and if he is, then who is it praying here and who is he praying to?
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the “Spirit himself intercedes for us” with groans that words cannot express. Rom 8:26
Who is the Spirit interceding to?
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2009,18:03)
Why then do the Apostles just baptize in the name of Jesus?
There is your answer, because everything is done in the name of Jesus and not the Father!Do you see any Apostle saying “in the name of YHWH be healed”? No but what you do see is…
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is”NONE OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN GIVEN AMONG MEN”, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12
Jesus is the name above every name!
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2009,18:03) But even if this scripture is valid, I have pointed out to you that the name is singular which would imply unity in purpose.
No, more like unity in nature! Names in the Hebrew culture implied nature!But, Jesus says there are “Three” does he not? Notice that the verse has a “name singular” for three and all three have the definite article which is proof that Jesus is making a distinction between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit!
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2009,18:03)
Not three separate names. We know the name of the Father is YHWH, and the name of the Son is Jesus. What is the name of the Holy Spirit, WJ?
Marty do you know of a scripture where Jesus called the Father by his name?Sorry Marty the name has been lost and I believe it is because the Father allowed it to be so for the name “Jesus”, Yashua means “YHWH is salvation”. So your point that the Spirit has no name is a straw! Jesus speaks of the Father by the title “Father, and he speaks of the Holy Spirit by the title “Comforter”, the Holy Spirit!
The only name we need to know for the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit is Jesus, the name above all names, for the fulness of Deity is in him, the one who has all authority and power, that is why the Apostles baptized in his name and in fact did everything in his name!
WJ
WJ,The Holy Spirit instructs me to let you know this:
Romans 8
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.It is that Spirit of Adoption:
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
This verse pertains to that Spirit of Adoption that cries out FATHER that interceeds for us.
26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Listen to The Holy Spirit and let yourself be taught in the Name of God even in the Name of His Christ Jesus.
Hi WJ:
I love you too brother and I respect you.
Looking at Romans 8:26, it may be that the spirit here is not the Holy Spirit but our spirit as children of God doing the groaning, and he who searches the hearts, may refer to Jesus, who knows the mind of the spirit, and makes incercession according to the will of God.
Quote Hbr 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. Hbr 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
Hbr 7:24 But this [man], because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
Hbr 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 19 2009,21:22) WJ, The Holy Spirit instructs me to let you know this:
Romans 8
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.It is that Spirit of Adoption:
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
This verse pertains to that Spirit of Adoption that cries out FATHER that interceeds for us.
26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Listen to The Holy Spirit and let yourself be taught in the Name of God even in the Name of His Christ Jesus.
BDI do not need to hear anything from you that believes the Koran over the scriptures and claims the scriptures are corrupt!
Also, not for a minute do I believe the Holy Spirit has spoken to you!
Say as you will, but you are not a Christian, you are a professed Muslim.
So stick with your Koran, and stop trying to teach from the Bible which you believe is corrupt, it only makes you look foolish and without any credibility here!
I will not engage with you anymore. A man who doesn’t even believe that Jesus died for their sins is a heretic according to the scriptures!
A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. Titus 3:10, 11
I pray God your eyes will be opened to see the truth of Gods word, the Bible!
WJ
Hi all,
I have been studying 2 Cor 3 tonight trying to get a better handle of that chapter and what God is saying through it. I will paste the chapter here but before that chapter, I would like to paste a passage about changing from glory to glory and how the Son (the second Adam) is now a life-giving spirit.Quote 1 Cor 15:40-48
40 There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;
43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
45 So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.
47 The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly.
NASU2 Cor 3:1-17-4:6
Ministers of a New Covenant 3 Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some, letters of commendation to you or from you?
2 You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men;
3 being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
4 Such confidence we have through Christ toward God.
5 Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God,
6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,
8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?
9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.
10 For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it.
11 For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.
12 Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech,
13 and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away.
14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ.
15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart;
16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.Paul's Apostolic Ministry 4 Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we received mercy, we do not lose heart,
2 but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
5 For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus' sake.
6 For God, who said, “Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
NASUNow, after looking at the context, let's look at these two verses:
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.This is NOT a passage referring to the Holy Spirit of the Living God as is spoken about in the first part of the chapter. This portion is speaking about the Lord Christ who became a life-giving spirit, and about the spirit of the Lord Christ.
So allow me to give some clarity so as to reveal what I believe to reflect the intent of the passage.
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit,…….(Now the Lord Jesus is the life-giving spirit,)
and where the[/B] Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty……..(and where the spirit of the Lord Jesus is, there is liberty.)
18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord (the Lord Jesus), are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.……..(just as from the Lord Jesus, the life-giving spirit)
I believe that the spirit of the Lord Jesus is united with the Spirit of the Living God, His Father, and unites with the spirit that dwells in the believers. The spirit of the believer becomes one with the spirit of the Father and the spirit of the Son.
This is how I understand it. Read it and see what you think.
God bless,
KathiQuote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 19 2009,15:44) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 20 2009,07:27) Hi not 3,
Brothers do not teach falsehoods.
Who determines what the falsehoods are that they teach?The bible…..
You…..
A group of robed, white-bearded men who float 10 inches from the ground?
Seriously, I ask you!
Love,
Mandy
Hi MandyQuote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 19 2009,15:44) A group of robed, white-bearded men who float 10 inches from the ground? Hey, watch it, I have a white beard! I am still working on floating 10″ off the ground though!
Blessings WJ
Hi Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 20 2009,01:31) I believe that the spirit of the Lord Jesus is united with the Spirit of the Living God, His Father, and unites with the spirit that dwells in the believers. The spirit of the believer becomes one with the spirit of the Father and the spirit of the Son.
There is only “One Spirit” spoken of in the New Testament that lives in us! No where does the scripture say there is “Three Spirits” united in one!The Apostle Paul in 2 Cor chapter 3 is drawing a contrast of the Old Covenant and the New Covenant.
being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with “the Spirit of the living God”, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2 Cor 3:3
Imagine that, an “It” from God writes on the tablets of our hearts!
who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter “but of the Spirit”; for the letter kills, but “the Spirit gives life”. 2 Cor 3:6
Imagine that, an “It” makes us adequate servants of the New Covenant, and also gives us life!
how will “the ministry of the Spirit” fail to be even more with glory?2 Cor 3:8
Imagine that, an “It” has a ministry!
In summary:
1. The Spirit writes on the tablets of our hearts.
2. The Spirit makes us adequate servants of the New covenant.
3. The Spirit gives life.
4. The Spirit has a Ministry.Then we read…
”Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, “just as from the Lord, the Spirit”. 2 Cor 3:17, 18
The ministry of the Spirit is to write on the tablets of our hearts the law, so that we can be adequate servants of the New Covenant. This is done by the Spirit giving us life and quickening us. The Lord is that same Spirit that transforms us into the same image from glory to glory!
You cut a scripture out of another Epistle entirely and try to force it here when clearly the context is about the Spirit of the living God who transforms us and makes us adequate servants of the New Covenant, yet you want us to believe still that the Spirit is an “IT”.
Surely the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit is at work in us and is changing us by the “One Spirit” who lives in us the Temple of the Living God!
The Lord is the Spirit, for there is One God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit!
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ,
You say
“The Lord is the Spirit, for there is One God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit!”So the Spirit is not the spirit of God?
You told us different last week?
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