Did jesus have the same spirit as believers?

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
The ONE Spirit is spoken of twice in Eph 2-4 as is HIS Spirit [speaking of the Father in eph2], God's Spirit and the Holy Spirit.

Tell us how you understand this.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 25 2009,16:48)

Hi WJ, There is one Spirit. You must seek to be joined with the Spirit of Christ[rom8]

Hi NH

The Spirit of Christ which is the “Spirit of God”, HMMM, One Spirit, same Spirit, eh?

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Do you not agree there is one Spirit??

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 25 2009,16:57)

Hi WJ, Do you not agree there is one Spirit??

NH

Isnt that what I have been saying!

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
So when scripture says the Spirit is one you disagree?
Would that not show you do not share that Spirit?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 25 2009,17:15)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 25 2009,16:57) Hi WJ, Do you not agree there is one Spirit?? NH Isnt that what I have been saying! WJ

NH

I repeat “There is One Spirit”!

I misunderstood the way you worded your question!

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
So there is one Spirit and this Spirit is variously called the Holy Spirit, The Spirit of God, The Spirit, the Spirit of Christ?

Rom 8 and Eph 2-4 would seem to confirm this.

[GeneBalthrop]

WJ……….You shurely know GOD the FATHER is SPIRIT right> and HE was (IN) Jesus via HIS SPIRIT and can be in US the (SAME) WAY, surely you know this. Where GOD'S Spirit his presents is. Do we agree on this at least.

peace and love to you and yours………………………gene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene @ Aug. 25 2009,18:48)

WJ……….You shurely know GOD the FATHER is SPIRIT right> and HE was (IN) Jesus via HIS SPIRIT and can be in US the (SAME) WAY, surely you know this. Where GOD'S Spirit his presents is. Do we agree on this at least. peace and love to you and yours………………………gene

Hi Gene

I don't know if we agree or not!

For where God's presence is, there is God!

If I am in your presence it is I that is there, right?

Why can't you just answer the question?

Its a yes or no question!

Is the Spirit God! Yes or no?

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 25 2009,17:25)

Hi WJ, So there is one Spirit and this Spirit is variously called the Holy Spirit, The Spirit of God, The Spirit, the Spirit of Christ? Rom 8 and Eph 2-4 would seem to confirm this.

NH

There is “One Spirit” yes!

WJ

[bodhitharta]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 26 2009,12:47)

Quote (Gene @ Aug. 25 2009,18:48) WJ……….You shurely know GOD the FATHER is SPIRIT right> and HE was (IN) Jesus via HIS SPIRIT and can be in US the (SAME) WAY, surely you know this. Where GOD'S Spirit his presents is. Do we agree on this at least. peace and love to you and yours………………………gene Hi Gene I don't know if we agree or not! For where God's presence is, there is God! If I am in your presence it is I that is there, right? Why can't you just answer the question? Its a yes or no question! Is the Spirit God! Yes or no? WJ

Yes, The Holy Spirit is God but no The Holy Spirit is not Jesus if the Holy Spirit was Jesus you would not be able to blaspheme Jesus and be forgiven. The Spirit of Christ is not the Spirit of Jesus it is the Spirit of God on the person making them “Anointed” i.e. Christian.

[eveh]

The bible says, and this is Jesus talking, “I will not leave you comfortless, I will come to you”…it is the spirit of Jesus that comes to us.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (eveh @ Aug. 26 2009,13:35)

The bible says, and this is Jesus talking, “I will not leave you comfortless, I will come to you”…it is the spirit of Jesus that comes to us.

Show the context and the verses. I don't really have a problem with what you wrote though as I do understand your overall position.

[942767]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 25 2009,17:40)

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 24 2009,19:22) Hi WJ: You say: Quote There is no indication at all that the Holy Spirit is the Father or Jesus throughout the book of Acts! Maybe not in the Acts of the Apostles, but what about the following scriptures? Quote Mat 10:18   And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.   Mat 10:19   But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.   Mat 10:20   For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.   Love in Christ, Marty Marty Who is the Spirit of the Father? Is it the Father himself? Is it Jesus? Is it the Holy Spirit? Scriptures say “God is Spirit”, and yet they say “the Lord is the Spirit” and yet Jesus said that the Father and he would send the Holy Spirit which proceeds from them! Are you confused? For if you are, don't blame me but blame the Apostles for they are the ones who penned the scriptures. I am not confused, instead I am fully persuaded in whom I have believed! Can you tell when God speaks through you, who it is? Or do you just say “God” spoke through you, or Jesus spoke through you, or the Holy Spirit spoke through you? It is rather amusing to hear so may of Gods professed people using the above terms when they speak of God speaking through them, yet they do not believe that it is one God speaking!   Blessings WJ

No, WJ:

I believe that you are confused. The scripture states that there is “One God”, and not God in three persons.

When God speaks through us it is He speaking through us by His Spirit.

A person is defined by the life that he lives. What a person does with His life determines who that person is. God is Holy and is a Spirit of Love, and Jesus has shown us this through obedience to God's Word.

His throne is in heaven, and He can be everywhere by His Spirit. His Spirit is His personal presence dwelling within us as our Helper.

There is no evidence of a third person in the following scripture:

Quote

2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

IF WE ARE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS, WE HAVE BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON, THAT IS WHAT THE SCRIPTURE PLAINLY STATES. THERE IS NO MENTION OF A THIRD PERSON.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[eveh]

There is only one spirit. If you are born again, you have the same spirit that rasied Jesus from the dead and will one day raise you up on reserection morn. One spirit.

[GeneBalthrop]

To All……..Again the problem is not understanding (WHAT) SPIRIT (IS). It is (NOT) a Being it is (INTELLECT) that is in the BEING. GOD the FATHER (IS) SPIRIT,100% Spirit, HE is NOT A PERSON> That is why no ONE (can) SEE HIM. Just like you cant see the air, but can feel the force, even so is Spirit. John said it right “no one can see God” , not now or ever will, we can only see him through the minds eye, because GOD (IS) SPIRIT and LIVES (IN) His creation and gives it life. If GOD is in you, you Have life , when He leaves you die and Have (NO) LIFE in YOU. GOD IS SPIRIT and and SPIRIT (IS) LIFE< And this LIFE is expressed to us through WORDS and HIS words (ARE) Spirit as all WORD are SPIRIT. SPIRIT CAN (NOT) BE SEEN EXCEPT THROUGH THE EYE OF THE MIND, IT IS THE LIGHT OF MAN HIS INTELLECT. GOD is in all and through all by His Spirit. Once we come to understand this many Scriptures start to make sense to us that maybe we did not understand before.

So WJ….> in ansewr to you question Yes the SPIRIT of GOD IS GOD. Jesus Plainly said the FATHER in ME (HE) doth the WORKS. The problem you are trying to Make the MAN JESUS, THAT GOD HIMSELF that the error of the TRINITY. Jesus was (NOT) the GOD the was IN HIM> NOR are WE, GOD IS SPIRIT NOT FLESH and BLOOD, He exists (IN) His CREATION. IMO

peace and love to you all……………………gene

[KangarooJack]

Lightenup said”

Quote

Your resource did not make a conclusive decision as to whether the verb was passive or intransitive…did you miss that?  You did however go even further than your resource when you declared it to be intransitive.  He did not go that far.  He said that it depends wholly upon contextual factors and in some instances it may be impossible to determine with any certainty.

Kathi,
My resource simply meant that the verb form itself is indeterminative and that it depends wholly on context. In other words, sometimes ἠγέρθη will be transitive and sometimes intransitive depending on context. It is clearly intransitive in John 2:22 because Jesus had just said in verse 19 that He would raise up His body (active).

BTW, the KJV does not translate ἠγέρθη in the passive in John 2:22

Quote

When therefore he was risen from the dead….

So the KJV translators saw it as an intransitive verb.

Lightenup:

Quote

You haven't shown me any follow up verse to Jesus raising up His body on the third day that is in the active voice.

So Jesus' word that He would raise up His body is not good enough for you?

Lightenup

Quote

I'll bet we can find plenty of scriptures that use the verb in the active voice that mention God the Father raising Him up and not your supposed middle voice verb.

First, as a Trinitarian I confess that the Father raised Jesus from the dead and also the Holy Spirit and Jesus Himself. I have faith in God unlike anti-trinitarians who must explain away parts of His revelation. Second, what do you mean by your statement “your supposed middle voice verb”? I gave you two grammarians on the middle voice. I gave it to you right from the textbooks I was required to have in College.

Example:

Quote

Keep yourselves from all coveteousness (Luke 12:15)

The verb is middle and so the pronoun “yourselves” is supplied. The subjects act upon themseves or in behalf of themselves. They participate in the action and even initiate the action. Likewise, there are several statements in the new testament which use the middle voice in reference to Christ's resurrection.

Lightenup:

Quote

Why don't you get it.  You are trying to prove that it can be written as a passive and an intransitive but what does it matter anyway because we know that John the Baptist didn't raise himself up.  The only thing you have proven is that it can be written either way and neither way indicates the subject doing the action.

First, the example from John the baptist was not the best though it still shows that  ἠγέρθη is not always translated as a passive. It would have been better if I had given you Mark 16:6:

Quote

He is not here. He is risen (ἠγέρθη)

This is clearly speaking about the resurrection of Jesus and the verb although passive in form is intransitive and not translated in the passive voice.

Second, I did not claim that the verb is active. I was showing you that it is intransitive and therefore cannot be used to cancel out the active verb in verse 19. You misunderstood the passive form in verse 22 and made John to contradict Jesus' statement in verse 19. I showed you the facts and you dismissed them.

Lightenup:

Quote

Show me the verses speaking about the Father raising up Jesus that uses the same “intransitive” verb.

I believe the Father raised up Christ from the dead. I also confess it as a work of the whole trinity. Trinitarians believe the whole counsel of God. We don't pick and choose like the anti-trinitarians.

Lightenup:

Quote

The Father was the only one that raised Jesus to the life He had before He left Mary at the tomb.  OK, there is my next challenge to you.

No maam! Jesus said:

Quote

I Myself am the Resurrection and the Life (John 11:25)

Christ's statement is emphatic in the Greek. He did not merely say “I am the resurrection and the life. He said “I MYSELF am the resurrection and the Life.”
My challenge to you is to learn how to harmonize the scriptures instead of pitting them against one another.

thinker

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 25 2009,23:27)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 25 2009,17:40) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 24 2009,19:22) Hi WJ: You say: Quote There is no indication at all that the Holy Spirit is the Father or Jesus throughout the book of Acts! Maybe not in the Acts of the Apostles, but what about the following scriptures? Quote Mat 10:18   And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.   Mat 10:19   But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.   Mat 10:20   For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.   Love in Christ, Marty Marty Who is the Spirit of the Father? Is it the Father himself? Is it Jesus? Is it the Holy Spirit? Scriptures say “God is Spirit”, and yet they say “the Lord is the Spirit” and yet Jesus said that the Father and he would send the Holy Spirit which proceeds from them! Are you confused? For if you are, don't blame me but blame the Apostles for they are the ones who penned the scriptures. I am not confused, instead I am fully persuaded in whom I have believed! Can you tell when God speaks through you, who it is? Or do you just say “God” spoke through you, or Jesus spoke through you, or the Holy Spirit spoke through you? It is rather amusing to hear so may of Gods professed people using the above terms when they speak of God speaking through them, yet they do not believe that it is one God speaking!   Blessings WJ No, WJ: I believe that you are confused.  The scripture states that there is “One God”, and not God in three persons. When God speaks through us it is He speaking through us by His Spirit. A person is defined by the life that he lives.  What a person does with His life determines who that person is.  God is Holy and is a Spirit of Love, and Jesus has shown us this through obedience to God's Word. His throne is in heaven, and He can be everywhere by His Spirit.  His Spirit is His personal presence dwelling within us as our Helper. There is no evidence of a third person in the following scripture: Quote 2Jo 1:9   Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. IF WE ARE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS, WE HAVE BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON, THAT IS WHAT THE SCRIPTURE PLAINLY STATES.  THERE IS NO MENTION OF A THIRD PERSON. Love in Christ, Marty

Hi Marty

Well then I guess Jesus was lying when he said he and the Father would send another!

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you “ANOTHER COUNSELOR” to be with you forever– John 14:16

But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit,”WHOM THE FATHER WILL SEND IN MY NAME”, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. John 14:26

You have failed to explain this but only repeat your “Trinity” is false theory!

Here is a couple of scriptures showing we have all three…

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of “the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost“: Matt 28:19

May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the “FELLOWSHIP OF THE HOLY SPIRIT BE WITH YOU ALL.” 2 Cor 13:14

Marty you said…

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 24 2009,18:41)

I wasn't speaking of Jesus praying in us, but what I am saying is that Jesus is hearing what the spirit is saying  through the unuterable groanings in heaven and then praying for us according his understanding of what the spirit has revealed that we needed, but it does appear that it is the Holy Spirit that is revealing what it is that we need because are unable to ask for ourselves.

You admit that Jesus is not the one doing the praying in us in Rom 8:26, 27, yet we know it cannot be the Father doing the praying, and yet you are claiming the Holy Spirit is the Father.

You can’t have it both ways.

You have failed to explain Matt 28:9,  2 Cor 13:14,  John 14:16, 14:26, John 16:13, 14 and Rom 8:26, 27 just to mention a few!

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 25 2009,23:27)

IF WE ARE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS, WE HAVE BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON, THAT IS WHAT THE SCRIPTURE PLAINLY STATES.  THERE IS NO MENTION OF A THIRD PERSON.

If what you say is true then Jesus is a liar and the Apostles also are liars!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 26 2009,11:39)

Lightenup said” Quote Your resource did not make a conclusive decision as to whether the verb was passive or intransitive…did you miss that?  You did however go even further than your resource when you declared it to be intransitive.  He did not go that far.  He said that it depends wholly upon contextual factors and in some instances it may be impossible to determine with any certainty. Kathi, My resource simply meant that the verb form itself is indeterminative and that it depends wholly on context. In other words, sometimes ἠγέρθη will be transitive and sometimes intransitive depending on context. It is clearly intransitive in John 2:22 because Jesus had just said in verse 19 that He would raise up His body (active). BTW, the KJV does not translate ἠγέρθη in the passive in John 2:22 Quote When therefore he was risen from the dead…. So the KJV translators saw it as an intransitive verb. Lightenup: Quote You haven't shown me any follow up verse to Jesus raising up His body on the third day that is in the active voice. So Jesus' word that He would raise up His body is not good enough for you? Lightenup Quote I'll bet we can find plenty of scriptures that use the verb in the active voice that mention God the Father raising Him up and not your supposed middle voice verb. First, as a Trinitarian I confess that the Father raised Jesus from the dead and also the Holy Spirit and Jesus Himself. I have faith in God unlike anti-trinitarians who must explain away parts of His revelation. Second, what do you mean by your statement “your supposed middle voice verb”? I gave you two grammarians on the middle voice. I gave it to you right from the textbooks I was required to have in College. Example: Quote Keep yourselves from all coveteousness (Luke 12:15) The verb is middle and so the pronoun “yourselves” is supplied. The subjects act upon themseves or in behalf of themselves. They participate in the action and even initiate the action. Likewise, there are several statements in the new testament which use the middle voice in reference to Christ's resurrection. Lightenup: Quote Why don't you get it.  You are trying to prove that it can be written as a passive and an intransitive but what does it matter anyway because we know that John the Baptist didn't raise himself up.  The only thing you have proven is that it can be written either way and neither way indicates the subject doing the action. First, the example from John the baptist was not the best though it still shows that  ἠγέρθη is not always translated as a passive. It would have been better if I had given you Mark 16:6: Quote He is not here. He is risen (ἠγέρθη) This is clearly speaking about the resurrection of Jesus and the verb although passive in form is intransitive and not translated in the passive voice. Second, I did not claim that the verb is active. I was showing you that it is intransitive and therefore cannot be used to cancel out the active verb in verse 19. You misunderstood the passive form in verse 22 and made John to contradict Jesus' statement in verse 19. I showed you the facts and you dismissed them. Lightenup: Quote Show me the verses speaking about the Father raising up Jesus that uses the same “intransitive” verb. I believe the Father raised up Christ from the dead. I also confess it as a work of the whole trinity. Trinitarians believe the whole counsel of God. We don't pick and choose like the anti-trinitarians. Lightenup: Quote The Father was the only one that raised Jesus to the life He had before He left Mary at the tomb.  OK, there is my next challenge to you. No maam! Jesus said: Quote I Myself am the Resurrection and the Life (John 11:25) Christ's statement is emphatic in the Greek. He did not merely say “I am the resurrection and the life. He said “I MYSELF am the resurrection and the Life.” My challenge to you is to learn how to harmonize the scriptures instead of pitting them against one another. thinker

Hi Jack

Good post!

Jesus said “Destroy this Temple” (his Body), so when he says “I wll raise it up”, he is not speaking of his Body going to be raised to heaven.

The Greek word for raised is Strong's G1453 – egeirō which means…

1) to arouse, cause to rise

a) to arouse from sleep, to awake

b) to arouse from the sleep of death, to recall the dead to life

c) to cause to rise from a seat or bed etc.

d) to raise up, produce, cause to appear

1) to cause to appear, bring before the public

2) to raise up, stir up, against one

3) to raise up i.e. cause to be born

4) of buildings, to raise up, construct, erect

It is translated in the AV in the following ways…

AV — rise 36 times, raise 28, arise 27, raise up 23, rise up 8, rise again 5, raise again 4, misc 10

Not once can you find egeirō used in relation to his ascension.

Check all the instances that it is used and it is almost invariably used in relation to Jesus body being raised from the dead!

It is clear what he said without all of the special pleading and apologetics that the Arian dance has to make to do violence to the scriptures while supporting their manmade doctrines! IMO.

Blessings WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
When Jesus was raised he was dead.
His own spirit had left his body and returned to God.
It was the abiding Spirit of God given to him that raised him and now gives him life.
That Spirit God had anointed him with at the Jordan spoke the Words of God through him including in Jn 2.

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