Did jesus have the same spirit as believers?

[KangarooJack]

WorshippingJesus said to Kathi:

Quote

And guess what Jesus who also is God, who raised himself from the dead!

Jesus concurs with WJ,

Quote

17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

thinker

[KangarooJack]

TO KEITH:

Here is another verse,

“The SPIRIT and the bride say, 'Come!'….Whosoever desires, let him take of the water of life freely.”

The Spirit speaks to people and invites them to come and drink of the water of life.

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Gene @ Aug. 22 2009,07:11)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 22 2009,04:12) Quote (Gene @ Aug. 21 2009,11:19) Lightenup………Yes the Spirit (OF) Him and If it is the SPIRIT (OF) HIM, it can be described as an (IT), for instance the cow got out and (IT) ran away. It is still the same thing  the Cow being described by the word (IT)> Good post peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene Hi Gene So now the Spirit is compared to a “cow”? The Spirit is a person for the “Lord is that Spirit”! WJ WJ………Can you see how you alter the point i was making , When did i ever say GOD Spirit is compared to a COW.  I was speaking about the WORD (IT)> But you have shown a good example of the confused Trinitarian mind set, can't even get something as simple as what i posted right. Amazing!  This is why nothing can ever get clarified here. This constant diversion from the truth is a hindrance  to the TRUTH.

Gene,
You did compare the Spirit to a cow. You could easily have said, “The man got out and (He) ran away.”

How about this: The Spirit was sent and (He) was another comforter to the disciples.

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
No trinity then. The Lord is the Spirit.

[Lightenup]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 21 2009,15:03)

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2009,14:21) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 21 2009,12:11) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2009,10:44) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 21 2009,04:42) WorshippingJesus wrote: Quote ”And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you”, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies “through his Spirit, who lives in you”. Rom 8:11 WJ, Good passage. It says that the Spirit raised Christ from ther dead too. thinker Hi Thinker, If you read that verse closely you will see that it was the “Him” that raised Christ and that same “Him” gives life to our mortal bodies “through His Spirit.” Hi Kathi No it says “The Spirit of Him” raised Christ from the dead! And the Spirit gives life. He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant–not of the letter “but of the Spirit“; for the letter kills, “but the Spirit gives life. 2 Cor 3:6 As soon as you guys realize that there is “One God”, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, then it will all make sense! WJ Keith, Look at the verse in your interlinear.  “Of Him that raised up Jesus” goes together.  Sorry! Kathi Hi Kathi Sorry for what? What do you think I am stupid? Why did you leave out the word “Spirit”? “pneuma tou egeirantov” “Spirit OF him” raised… And if the “Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead “is living in you, “HE who raised Christ from the dead” will also give life to your mortal bodies “through his Spirit, who lives in you.“ Rom 8:11 Make up your mind, now you are admitting that the Spirit is a “Him” the Father who is a person! Which is it? So then the Father who is a “Him” dwells in you right? But wait, Paul says “He” the Spirit (who you say is the Father) also gives us life “Through his Spirit” which you say in the first part of the verse is the Father who lives in us! You are trying to have it both ways Kathi, by saying the Spirit of the Father (or a him, he) is the Father but yet the Spirit of the Father is not a person! Either way it is the Spirit who is God that raised Jesus from the dead! And guess what Jesus who also is God, who raised himself from the dead! WJ

Keith,
No, I don't think you are stupid but I beg you to slow down, get off the defensive, take a breath and analyze the verse. You can go here to see that the article translated “of Him who” is in the masculine singular genitive just like the verb “raised” which is also the masculine singular genitive.  

http://www.studylight.org/isb….=1&l=en

At that link click on “Greek lexical parser” and it will bring up the morphology of the words.

Here is the verse:
8:11
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

I am going to add commas and parentheses to separate the phrases so you might be able to get the meaning better.  I am also going to add, in italics, who the pronoun is referring to.

8:11
But if the Spirit (of Him the Father who raised Jesus, from the dead) dwells in you, He the Father (who raised Christ Jesus, from the dead) will also give life to your mortal bodies, through His the Father's Spirit, who dwells in you.

I hope that helps,
Kathi

[Lightenup]

Quote (Gene @ Aug. 21 2009,15:11)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 22 2009,04:12) Quote (Gene @ Aug. 21 2009,11:19) Lightenup………Yes the Spirit (OF) Him and If it is the SPIRIT (OF) HIM, it can be described as an (IT), for instance the cow got out and (IT) ran away. It is still the same thing  the Cow being described by the word (IT)> Good post peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene Hi Gene So now the Spirit is compared to a “cow”? The Spirit is a person for the “Lord is that Spirit”! WJ WJ………Can you see how you alter the point i was making , When did i ever say GOD Spirit is compared to a COW.  I was speaking about the WORD (IT)> But you have shown a good example of the confused Trinitarian mind set, can't even get something as simple as what i posted right. Amazing!  This is why nothing can ever get clarified here. This constant diversion from the truth is a hindrance  to the TRUTH.

Gene,
I had no problem understanding what you wrote. I can assure you that I never thought your point was to compare the Spirit to a cow…(good grief Keith). Your point was good.

Thanks,
Kathi

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2009,18:38)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 21 2009,15:03) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2009,14:21) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 21 2009,12:11) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2009,10:44) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 21 2009,04:42) WorshippingJesus wrote: Quote ”And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you”, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies “through his Spirit, who lives in you”. Rom 8:11 WJ, Good passage. It says that the Spirit raised Christ from ther dead too. thinker Hi Thinker, If you read that verse closely you will see that it was the “Him” that raised Christ and that same “Him” gives life to our mortal bodies “through His Spirit.” Hi Kathi No it says “The Spirit of Him” raised Christ from the dead! And the Spirit gives life. He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant–not of the letter “but of the Spirit“; for the letter kills, “but the Spirit gives life. 2 Cor 3:6 As soon as you guys realize that there is “One God”, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, then it will all make sense! WJ Keith, Look at the verse in your interlinear.  “Of Him that raised up Jesus” goes together.  Sorry! Kathi Hi Kathi Sorry for what? What do you think I am stupid? Why did you leave out the word “Spirit”? “pneuma tou egeirantov” “Spirit OF him” raised… And if the “Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead “is living in you, “HE who raised Christ from the dead” will also give life to your mortal bodies “through his Spirit, who lives in you.“ Rom 8:11 Make up your mind, now you are admitting that the Spirit is a “Him” the Father who is a person! Which is it? So then the Father who is a “Him” dwells in you right? But wait, Paul says “He” the Spirit (who you say is the Father) also gives us life “Through his Spirit” which you say in the first part of the verse is the Father who lives in us! You are trying to have it both ways Kathi, by saying the Spirit of the Father (or a him, he) is the Father but yet the Spirit of the Father is not a person! Either way it is the Spirit who is God that raised Jesus from the dead! And guess what Jesus who also is God, who raised himself from the dead! WJ Keith, No, I don't think you are stupid but I beg you to slow down, get off the defensive, take a breath and analyze the verse. You can go here to see that the article translated “of Him who” is in the masculine singular genitive just like the verb “raised” which is also the masculine singular genitive.   http://www.studylight.org/isb….=1&l=en At that link click on “Greek lexical parser” and it will bring up the morphology of the words. Here is the verse: 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. I am going to add commas and parentheses to separate the phrases so you might be able to get the meaning better.  I am also going to add, in italics, who the pronoun is referring to. 8:11 But if the Spirit (of Him the Father who raised Jesus, from the dead) dwells in you, He the Father (who raised Christ Jesus, from the dead) will also give life to your mortal bodies, through His the Father's Spirit, who dwells in you. I hope that helps, Kathi

Hi Kathi

You quote…

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2009,18:38)

8:11 But if the Spirit (of Him the Father who raised Jesus, from the dead) dwells in you, He the Father (who raised Christ Jesus, from the dead) will also give life to your mortal bodies, through the Father's Spirit, who dwells in you. I hope that helps, Kathi

OK Kathi, I have my oxygen tank on and am taking my time, after all I am 54 and a little slow sometimes,

So what is the problem? My point is the passage speaks of another “The Spirit of” that dwells in us!

That was my point to Marty is that the Spirit in context of Rom 8:8:26, 27 cannot be the Father or Jesus.

If you say the Spirit here is the Father then it would not be the Father through the Holy Spirit who gives life to our bodies!

But because the Father is doing something through Jesus or the Holy Spirit does not mean that they are not doing the work also!

The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead and also lives in us and quickens our mortal bodies!

Blessings WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2009,18:54)

Quote (Gene @ Aug. 21 2009,15:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 22 2009,04:12) Quote (Gene @ Aug. 21 2009,11:19) Lightenup………Yes the Spirit (OF) Him and If it is the SPIRIT (OF) HIM, it can be described as an (IT), for instance the cow got out and (IT) ran away. It is still the same thing  the Cow being described by the word (IT)> Good post peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene Hi Gene So now the Spirit is compared to a “cow”? The Spirit is a person for the “Lord is that Spirit”! WJ WJ………Can you see how you alter the point i was making , When did i ever say GOD Spirit is compared to a COW.  I was speaking about the WORD (IT)> But you have shown a good example of the confused Trinitarian mind set, can't even get something as simple as what i posted right. Amazing!  This is why nothing can ever get clarified here. This constant diversion from the truth is a hindrance  to the TRUTH. Gene, I had no problem understanding what you wrote.  I can assure you that I never thought your point was to compare the Spirit to a cow…(good grief Keith).  Your point was good.   Thanks, Kathi

Hi Kathi

Actually his comparing the Holy Spirit to a cow as an “It” is no worse than comparing him to an “it”.

I highlighted his statement for your reading again….

Quote (Gene @ Aug. 21 2009,11:19)

Yes the Spirit (OF) Him and If it is the SPIRIT (OF) HIM, “it can be DESCRIBED an (IT), for instance the cow got out and (IT) ran away. “IT IS THE SAME THING“, the Cow being DESCRIBED by the word (IT)> Good post

Good grief Kathi, can't you see that he could have used another example since he clearly says it is the same thing as a cow being called an “It”.

Like you he has denigrated the Holy Spirit to an “It”!

Actually I was being graceful by saying he is comparing the Holy Spirit to a cow for a cow is at least a living creature!  

WJ

[bodhitharta]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 22 2009,11:58)

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2009,18:54) Quote (Gene @ Aug. 21 2009,15:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 22 2009,04:12) Quote (Gene @ Aug. 21 2009,11:19) Lightenup………Yes the Spirit (OF) Him and If it is the SPIRIT (OF) HIM, it can be described as an (IT), for instance the cow got out and (IT) ran away. It is still the same thing  the Cow being described by the word (IT)> Good post peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene Hi Gene So now the Spirit is compared to a “cow”? The Spirit is a person for the “Lord is that Spirit”! WJ WJ………Can you see how you alter the point i was making , When did i ever say GOD Spirit is compared to a COW.  I was speaking about the WORD (IT)> But you have shown a good example of the confused Trinitarian mind set, can't even get something as simple as what i posted right. Amazing!  This is why nothing can ever get clarified here. This constant diversion from the truth is a hindrance  to the TRUTH. Gene, I had no problem understanding what you wrote.  I can assure you that I never thought your point was to compare the Spirit to a cow…(good grief Keith).  Your point was good.   Thanks, Kathi Hi Kathi Actually his comparing the Holy Spirit to a cow as an “It” is no worse than comparing him to an “it”. I highlighted his statement for your reading again…. Quote (Gene @ Aug. 21 2009,11:19) Yes the Spirit (OF) Him and If it is the SPIRIT (OF) HIM, “it can be DESCRIBED an (IT), for instance the cow got out and (IT) ran away. “IT IS THE SAME THING“, the Cow being DESCRIBED by the word (IT)> Good post Good grief Kathi, can't you see that he could have used another example since he clearly says it is the same thing as a cow being called an “It”. Like you he has denigrated the Holy Spirit to an “It”! Actually I was being graceful by saying he is comparing the Holy Spirit to a cow for a cow is at least a living creature!   WJ

What is the Spirit?

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
You need to share life in the Spirit of Christ but your cringing obedience to your worldly master stands in the way.

[KangarooJack]

WorshippingJesus said to kathi:

Quote

That was my point to Marty is that the Spirit in context of Rom 8:8:26, 27 cannot be the Father or Jesus. If you say the Spirit here is the Father then it would not be the Father through the Holy Spirit who gives life to our bodies!

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would be sent from the Father and assume a subordinate role to the Son (John 16). So the Holy Spirit cannot be the Father.

thinker

[Lightenup]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 21 2009,19:43)

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2009,18:38) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 21 2009,15:03) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2009,14:21) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 21 2009,12:11) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2009,10:44) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 21 2009,04:42) WorshippingJesus wrote: Quote ”And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you”, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies “through his Spirit, who lives in you”. Rom 8:11 WJ, Good passage. It says that the Spirit raised Christ from ther dead too. thinker Hi Thinker, If you read that verse closely you will see that it was the “Him” that raised Christ and that same “Him” gives life to our mortal bodies “through His Spirit.” Hi Kathi No it says “The Spirit of Him” raised Christ from the dead! And the Spirit gives life. He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant–not of the letter “but of the Spirit“; for the letter kills, “but the Spirit gives life. 2 Cor 3:6 As soon as you guys realize that there is “One God”, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, then it will all make sense! WJ Keith, Look at the verse in your interlinear.  “Of Him that raised up Jesus” goes together.  Sorry! Kathi Hi Kathi Sorry for what? What do you think I am stupid? Why did you leave out the word “Spirit”? “pneuma tou egeirantov” “Spirit OF him” raised… And if the “Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead “is living in you, “HE who raised Christ from the dead” will also give life to your mortal bodies “through his Spirit, who lives in you.“ Rom 8:11 Make up your mind, now you are admitting that the Spirit is a “Him” the Father who is a person! Which is it? So then the Father who is a “Him” dwells in you right? But wait, Paul says “He” the Spirit (who you say is the Father) also gives us life “Through his Spirit” which you say in the first part of the verse is the Father who lives in us! You are trying to have it both ways Kathi, by saying the Spirit of the Father (or a him, he) is the Father but yet the Spirit of the Father is not a person! Either way it is the Spirit who is God that raised Jesus from the dead! And guess what Jesus who also is God, who raised himself from the dead! WJ Keith, No, I don't think you are stupid but I beg you to slow down, get off the defensive, take a breath and analyze the verse. You can go here to see that the article translated “of Him who” is in the masculine singular genitive just like the verb “raised” which is also the masculine singular genitive.   http://www.studylight.org/isb….=1&l=en At that link click on “Greek lexical parser” and it will bring up the morphology of the words. Here is the verse: 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. I am going to add commas and parentheses to separate the phrases so you might be able to get the meaning better.  I am also going to add, in italics, who the pronoun is referring to. 8:11 But if the Spirit (of Him the Father who raised Jesus, from the dead) dwells in you, He the Father (who raised Christ Jesus, from the dead) will also give life to your mortal bodies, through His the Father's Spirit, who dwells in you. I hope that helps, Kathi Hi Kathi You quote… Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2009,18:38) 8:11 But if the Spirit (of Him the Father who raised Jesus, from the dead) dwells in you, He the Father (who raised Christ Jesus, from the dead) will also give life to your mortal bodies, through the Father's Spirit, who dwells in you. I hope that helps, Kathi OK Kathi, I have my oxygen tank on and am taking my time, after all I am 54 and a little slow sometimes, So what is the problem? My point is the passage speaks of another “The Spirit of” that dwells in us! That was my point to Marty is that the Spirit in context of Rom 8:8:26, 27 cannot be the Father or Jesus. If you say the Spirit here is the Father then it would not be the Father through the Holy Spirit who gives life to our bodies! But because the Father is doing something through Jesus or the Holy Spirit does not mean that they are not doing the work also! The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead and also lives in us and quickens our mortal bodies! Blessings WJ

Keith,
Here is the passage that is being discussed:

Rom 8:9-29
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.11 But if the Spirit of him (the Father) that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.15 For ye have not recei
ved the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.2
KJV

As you can see there are several “spirit of” phrases in the context. We see the:
Spirit of God
Spirit of Christ
Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead
spirit of bondage
Spirit of adoption

I believe that the Spirit of God is also the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead, i.e. this Spirit is the Spirit of the Father

I believe the Spirit of Christ is what gives us the spirit of adoption since they both cry “Abba Father”

Gal 4:6-7
6 Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”
7 Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.
NASU

I believe that the Spirit in this part is the Spirit of Christ:

the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

because it is the Son of God that makes intercession for us continually,
and it is the Son of God that has said that it is He that searcheth the hearts and minds of us. See here:

Heb 7:24-25
24 but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently.
25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
NASU
Rev 2:18-23
The Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet are like burnished bronze, says this:
19 'I know your deeds, and your love and faith and service and perseverance, and that your deeds of late are greater than at first.
20 'But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.
21 'I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality.
22 'Behold, I will throw her on a bed of sickness, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds.
23 'And I will kill her children with pestilence, and all the churches will know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds.
NASU

You said:

Quote

That was my point to Marty is that the Spirit in context of Rom 8:8:26, 27 cannot be the Father or Jesus.

So, I agree that the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ spoken in the Romans passage is not the Father or Jesus. The Spirit of God is a part of God, His very inner spirit. The Spirit of Christ is a part of Christ, His very inner spirit. The spirit of us as well as the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ are a living and active part.

God bless,
Kathi

[NickHassan]

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 22 2009,13:39)

WorshippingJesus said to kathi: Quote That was my point to Marty is that the Spirit in context of Rom 8:8:26, 27 cannot be the Father or Jesus. If you say the Spirit here is the Father then it would not be the Father through the Holy Spirit who gives life to our bodies! Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would be sent from the Father and assume a subordinate role to the Son (John 16). So the Holy Spirit cannot be the Father. thinker

Hi TT,
So if the Spirit of our God has amazing abilities then it must be another person?

You preach what men taught 200 years after Jesus.

WJ tells us the Spirit is ever one with God.

[Lightenup]

To all you “old men” out there:

Keith said:

Quote

OK Kathi, I have my oxygen tank on and am taking my time, after all I am 54 and a little slow sometimes,

I'm sorry but I just got this in my email and I just had to give tribute to all the “old men” on here that occasionally need to take those oxygen tanks down from the shelf and load up. I hope it will “lightenup” some or your weary souls:

Quote

An elderly man owned a large farm for several years. He had a large pond in the back. It was properly shaped for swimming, so he fixed it up nice with picnic tables, horseshoe courts, and some apple, and peach trees. One evening the old farmer decided to go down to the pond, as he hadn't been there for a while, and look it over. He grabbed a five-gallon bucket to bring back some fruit. As he neared the pond, he heard voices shouting and laughing with glee. As he came closer, he saw it was a bunch of young women skinny-dipping in his pond. He made the women aware of his presence and they all went to the deep end. One of the women shouted to him, 'we're not coming out until you leave!' The old man frowned, 'I didn't come down here to watch you ladies swim naked or make you get out of the pond naked.' Holding the bucket up he said, 'I'm here to feed the alligator.' Some old men can still think fast.

Don't worry Keith, I know that you can usually think fast

Enjoy,
Kathi

[Not3in1]

Good one, Kathi!

[Cindy]

W.J.  so many long post have been given to you that explains that the Holy Spirit of God is not a person.  If you want to call it an it, that is up to you.  However, to me that is really not what the Spirit of God is.    It is an essence that we all have now after we have been Baptized and received the Spirit of God the Father.  It all unites us.  Just like Love, Patience, Joy, Spirit can unite us.  Those all are what the Father is.  Not another person.  And it makes us one in  the unity of the Father and Son.  
I have been wondering why that is so hard for you to understand.  I do know what you belief, since I've been there.  Also the trinity doctrine never was taught by the Apostles and the first Christians.  It was a Man made doctrine and not of God,  I will again tell you whio it was.  But I think you know that it was Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullian.  There are very good Scriptures that shows that the trinity is false.
Deut. 4:35 ” Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD He is God, there is none else beside Him.”

Deut. 6:4 ” Hear; O Israel;  The LORD our God is one LORD.”

1 Corinth. 8:4 ” And that there is none other God but one.”

The one Scripture that I like is where Jesus tells us that His Father is greater then He is.
John 14:28 ….. for My Father is greater then I.

Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all,  and in us all.”

There is no trinity.  The Holy Spirit is God's Holy Spirit.  I am 71 and that is a poor excuse that you used, to say the least.
Peace and Love Irene

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 22 2009,14:59)

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 22 2009,13:39) WorshippingJesus said to kathi: Quote That was my point to Marty is that the Spirit in context of Rom 8:8:26, 27 cannot be the Father or Jesus. If you say the Spirit here is the Father then it would not be the Father through the Holy Spirit who gives life to our bodies! Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would be sent from the Father and assume a subordinate role to the Son (John 16). So the Holy Spirit cannot be the Father. thinker Hi TT, So if the Spirit of our God has amazing abilities then it must be another person? You preach what men taught 200 years after Jesus. WJ tells us the Spirit is ever one with God.

Do you endorse Kathi's view that the Spirit is the Father?

thinker

[KangarooJack]

TO KATHI:

It occurred to me today that Jesus said that when the Spirit came He (it) would not speak of Himself (itself) but would glorify Christ.

So if the Spirit is the Father then the Father glorifies Christ and NOT Himself in this gospel dispensation. So why would you glorify the Father over the Son? You would not be speaking what the Father speaks.

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Lightenup said:

Quote

Keith, No, I don't think you are stupid but I beg you to slow down, get off the defensive, take a breath and analyze the verse. You can go here to see that the article translated “of Him who” is in the masculine singular genitive just like the verb “raised” which is also the masculine singular genitive.   Here is the verse: 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. I am going to add commas and parentheses to separate the phrases so you might be able to get the meaning better.  I am also going to add, in italics, who the pronoun is referring to. 8:11 But if the Spirit (of Him the Father who raised Jesus, from the dead) dwells in you, He the Father (who raised Christ Jesus, from the dead) will also give life to your mortal bodies, through His the Father's Spirit, who dwells in you.

Kathi,
What am I going to do with you? You add the word “Father” when in verse 9 Paul CLEARLY identified the Spirit as belonging to Christ.

“…And if anyone does not have Christ's Spirit he does not belong to Christ….And if His Spirit who raised Jesus from the dead dwell in you….”

There it is! So do it again and get it right this time. I am going to add the pronoun to whom it refers,

“But if (Christ's) Spirit who raised Jesus, from the dead dwells in you, then He (the Spirit) who raised Christ Jesus, from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies, through His (Christ' Spirit), who dwells in you.”

You stumble because of the “of Him” reading in the Engish. But the genetive is possessive and is literally “His Spirit.” And the context demands that “His Spirit” be identified as Christ's Spirit. Christ was raised up by His own Spirit in this context.

thinker

[GeneBalthrop]

Thinker………Jesus said GOD was SPIRIT. You can't see SPIRIT thats why he said, No Man Has seen GOD at anytime (WHY) because GOD is SPIRIT and SPIRIT is INTELLECT and you can't see (intellect) and it is expressed in WORD. WE are washed by the WORDS of GOD, Let this (MIND)or (intellect) be in you that was (ALSO) in Jesus Christ our Lord. ONE GOD IN ALL AND THROUGH ALL< How, by (HIS) SPIRIT (intellect) . When are you people going to GET IT?, THERE IS (NO) TRIUNE GOD, ONLY ONE GOD IN (ALL) AND THROUGH (ALL). Accept this and dump the Trinitarian Delusion. IMO

Peace and love……………………gene

[Author]

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