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I was raised in a christian home where the drinking of alcohol was taught as sinful.As I grew up this truly became a stumbling block for a while.My father(a gospel minister)never touched a drop of wine(except while serving in the military in Italy where the local congregation actually served wine for the communion service…he wasn't expecting that one)or beer,or anything else alcoholic to this day.And even though I have partaken of alcoholic drinks,I still feel the scriptures plainly teach that “drunkedness” is a sin!
But can the abstaining from alcohol be taught as doctrine?!
I had always been taught in classes and from the pulpit that it was against God to partake of such things,and that no amount was acceptable because one did not know when they were becoming impaired,or to what degree.So,better safe than sorry I suppose.
But I decided to read the scriptures and see if these teachings were in fact the word of the Father,or of man.My first inclination was to go to the passages that dealt with drinking,and of course,drunkedness was always considered sunful.And to that I agree.But then I came across this passage.
In Psalm 104:14-15 it reads thus,”He..(talking about the Father and the care He has for His works.this is the context)..causes the grass to grow for the cattle,and vegetation for the labor of man,so that he may bring forth food from the earth,AND WINE WHICH MAKES MAN'S HEART GLAD,SO THAT HE MAY MAKE HIS FACE GLISTEN WITH OIL,and food which sustains man's heart.”
This says God made the wine for men to make their hearts glad.But new wine(not yet fermented),or grape juice does not cause' joy,or gladness!Only fermented wine can do this and bring laughter and song because it effects behavior.The others don't.
Then I went to the familiar story of the first miracle of Christ in John 2 where Jesus turned water to wine.I had always been taught that this was new wine,or not yet fermented wine.Why?Because the Lord would never promote drunkedness(which IS sinful).
But I found that the passage truly states that the wine was alcoholic.How is this so you ask?Read with me verses 9-10.”When the headwaiter..(a man whose main duty was to know the foods served,drinks offered,seating,…so that all would go according to law,custom and tradition)..tasted the water that had become wine,and did not know where it came from(but the servants who had drawn the water knew),the headwaiter called the bridegroom,and said to him,”Every man serves the good wine first,and WHEN THE PEOPLE HAVE DRUNK FREELY,then he serves the poorer wine;but you have kept the good wine until now.”
What difference did it make?Examine what he said.The headwaiter said”Every man(all men in this position)serve the good wine first..”Why is this so?! “…and when the people have DRUNK FREELY,THEN he serves the poorer wine.”In other words,when the guests have drank their fill then you serve the lesser because at that point they don't care what they're drinking!!(they have a buzz by then you see) That is why he actually questioned the bridegroom on his wedding day.And this man certainly was an expert because he knew wine,and the quality difference between the two.
Did Jesus promote drunkedness?OF COURSE NOT!!According to God's word we are all individually responsible for our actions!No one put a gun(or sword)in anyone's hand and made them drink at this wedding.Jesus only provided that which Jewish law and custom ordained had to be at this type of public celebration.And yes,according to 3 different rabbis I've spoken to,the wine had/has to be alcoholic at such occaisions in these days(and today as well I believe).
I then turned over to Luke 7:33-34.Here the Lord is acknowledging the baptism of John to the people as valid and also jabbing the hearts of the Pharisees and lawyers who had rejected God's purpose for them.And the Lord said,”For John the baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine,and you say,”He has a demon.”The Son of Man has come both eating and drinking,and you say”Behold a gluttonous man and a drunkard,a friend of tax collectors and sinners.”
What are you eating and drinking Jesus?Well…those things John did not..bread and wine!How do we know it was an alcoholic wine?Because the Pharisses and lawyers were calling Christ a “drunkard”.If it was new wine,or grape juice only,they could've never even made such a claim.And we know from Luke 1:15 when God's angel told Zacharias of the birth of John,..”he(John)will drink no wine or liquor,..”.Therefore if John didn't drink these things…Jesus did the opposite according to Christ himself!!
Why am I saying all of this?! In 1 Timothy 4:1-5 Paul tells Timothy of things being taught as doctrine which were additions to the law made by men.NOT the law itself!!Paul calls these things”Deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,by means of hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,”and goes on to say that”EVERYTHING CREATED BY GOD IS GOOD,and NOTHING is to be rejected if it is recieved with gratitude;”Sounds like more of a command than a suggestion wouldn't you say?!And it agrees with Gen.1 & 2 about how the Father felt about his creations.
My reason is this.If we as learned(supposedly)biblical students teach traditional beliefs as dogma without scriptural authority backing it up,we are no different than the scribes,Pharisees,and Saducees the Lord railed against for doing just that!!!We CANNOT put man made stumbling blocks in the way purposely,as church law,that God does not condone and agree with in His holy word!!Otherwise we not only risk our own souls,but those of others who are influenced by our teachings,and guided by them!!
I bring this up with love in my heart!I do not want my brethren to suffer in the hereafter for things that could've,and should've,been avoided with a simple reading of God's word with open eyes,hearts,and minds!!I want us all to meet one another under the brilliance and majesty of God's presence in heaven,feeling His love wash over us for all time,and being able to fellowship together forever in glory!!But we will be held accountable for how we influence others,and according to what I have read,that can be a deal breaker.Please…let us all examine ourselves to prove worthy of God's grace.Tradition over truth??May it never be!!!
It is a mitzvah to drink wine for the sanctification of certain holidays like Shabbat, Passover, etc… Yeshua certainly drank. It is not a sin. It is only sin to be a drunkard.
The one……….Welcome to the site…..You are right in you conclusions, Wine and Alcohol consumption is allowed by God. Here is some more proof it was Alcohol in the Wine. Jesus said, you don't put new wine (grape juice) in (OLD) Skins , least it burst the Skin and also you lose the wine , But you put new wine (grape juice) in New Wine Skins, and the skins are preserved and also the wine. The reason for this is because when you put Grape Juices in the new skins it begins to ferment producing Alcohol and gas and expanding the skins . This shows it was a fermented wine they were drinking.
Another thing that proves this is , On the day of Pentecost , when Peter said “MEN AND BROTHERS THESE MEN ARE NOT DRUNK AS YOU SUPPOSE THEY ARE, (BECAUSE) IT IS (ONLY) THE NINTH HOUR, nine o clock in the morning> another words it was to early for them to start drinking wine which could have intoxicated them. Obviously by this statement later they did drink fermented Wine.
I believe you are completely right on this, While drunkenness is discouraged still some alcohol no matter how much has a effect on us, in moderation it can have a good effect in making the Heart Marry. So moderation is the Key as it is with all things “BE YOU TEMPERATE IN ALL THINGS”. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
Colossians 2:20-22
20 Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings.It is not a sin to drink wine. It is a sin to be drunk.
It is not a sin to eat food, it is a sin to be a glutton.
It is not a sin to have sex, it is a sin to have sex with someone who is not your partner.Do not touch and taste are commandments of men.
I think in a circumstance where a brother is weak, then abstinence is good. e.g., an ex-alcoholic might be wise to abstain from alcohol altogether, lest he be tempted to get drunk by having a glass of wine.
I thank you my brothers for your replys.I worry often that many good,God loving people are going to have to give account for teachings they've held as truth,which do not agree with God's word.I am scared for these fine people for such reasons(as well as my own soul) because if we(even true hearted,and with good intentions)cause' our brethren to stumble due to misinterpretation or misunderstanding the truth of the scriptures it would be better that a milstone be hung around our neck and we be drowned in the depths of the sea,than what would await us at judgement.
I do not want this for any of my brethren or myself!!
Hi:
No, it is not wrong to have a cup of wine with dinner or a beer, but the scriptures state that drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God.
The Apostle Paul gave these instructions:
Quote Rom 14:21 [It is] good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor [do anything] by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak. [fn]
Rom 14:22 Do you have faith? [fn] Have [it] to yourself before God. Happy [is] he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
Rom 14:23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because [he does] not [eat] from faith; for whatever [is] not from faith is sin. [fn]Love in Christ,
Marty
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