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Quote Jehovah our God is the unity of the God of gods (Jehovah,the Father) and the Lord of lords (Jehovah,the Son). Deut 10:17 Worship the Father, the Son and their Holy Spirit as the fullness of Jehovah, who alone as a unity, was the creator of heaven and earth.
Hi Lightenup.
I was wondering, are you a Muslim? Because you seem to be denying the Son Jesus. I do not see Jesus mentioned anywhere in your signature.
Every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. 1John 4-3
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into licentiousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. Jude 1-4
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who shall secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2Peter-2
Hi Toby,
If you have ears to hear to hear and can receive it,
Luke 10:30-37 is a parable about Jesus and the “HolySpirit”;
those filled with God's “HolySpirit”, DO, do likewise to their neighbor!Luke 10:30-37 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho,
and fell among thieves (Luke 19:46), which stripped him of his raiment (John 19:24), and wounded him (Isaiah 53:5),
and departed (Mal.2:8), leaving him half dead (Isaiah 14:19). And by chance there came down a certain priest that way:
and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked
on him, and passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him,
he had compassion on him (Deut.13:17), And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his
own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave
them to the Host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbor unto him (Prob.11:12) that fell among the thieves?
And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (toby @ Jan. 05 2012,03:37) Quote Jehovah our God is the unity of the God of gods (Jehovah,the Father) and the Lord of lords (Jehovah,the Son). Deut 10:17 Worship the Father, the Son and their Holy Spirit as the fullness of Jehovah, who alone as a unity, was the creator of heaven and earth.
Hi Lightenup.
I was wondering, are you a Muslim? Because you seem to be denying the Son Jesus. I do not see Jesus mentioned anywhere in your signature.
Every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. 1John 4-3
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into licentiousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. Jude 1-4
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who shall secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2Peter-2
Hi toby,
No, I am certainly not a muslim. A muslim doesn't accept that Jesus has always been the literal Son of God from before creation. I do. I believe, as a literal Son of God that He would be just like His Father…deity. I mention “Jehovah, the Son” because I believe that Jesus, in His pre-existence was referred to as “Jehovah” and also “Lord of lords.” Although, He was not every reference of Jehovah mentioned…that was either His Father or the unity that He and His Father have together with their Holy Spirit.Rev 17:14 “These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.”
Thanks for your concern though,
KathiQuote (Lightenup @ Jan. 03 2012,21:40) Jesus called His Father the only true God and Jesus knows that He is a part of that only true God as God the Son. 
In what scripture is it said that Jesus is a “part of the only true God”? What scripture tells you that Jesus “knew this”? It seems to me that Jesus knew he was the Son of the only true God, not a “part of” Him.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Jan. 04 2012,09:48) An angel cannot die either.
Angels like Jesus were created immortal. They won't die by accident or illness or old age, like we do. But they can be destroyed.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 05 2012,18:10) Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 03 2012,21:40) Jesus called His Father the only true God and Jesus knows that He is a part of that only true God as God the Son. In what scripture is it said that Jesus is a “part of the only true God”? What scripture tells you that Jesus “knew this”? It seems to me that Jesus knew he was the Son of the only true God, not a “part of” Him.
Mike,
John 17:8
For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.When my children came out from me, the were within me and part of me before they came out from me. They still are a part of me because I am in them by my DNA and my teachings and memories.
No created thing has come out from the Father. The Son was born/begotten, not created. Until you let go of the idea that the Son was created and not a literal son, you will be stuck, Mike.
Kathi
Kathi,
By that logic, EVERYTHING IN EXISTENCE is a “part of God”.
All things came “out from thee”, despite your unsubstantiated wish that they didn't.
I am a literal son who was begotten and born, and I'm ALSO a creation. Why do you think this wouldn't also apply for Jesus?
Kathi, Jesus was “brought forth into existence” by his God and our God. There are scriptures that speak of him being “begotten”, “born”, and “created”. None of those things would exclude being any other of those things. Being “begotten” doesn't exclude being “born”. And being “born” doesn't exclude being “created”.
Kathi, don't forget that anyone who was EVER born in the history of creation was also subject to a time when they didn't exist. Jesus is no exception.
Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 06 2012,04:09) Quote (toby @ Jan. 05 2012,03:37) Quote Jehovah our God is the unity of the God of gods (Jehovah,the Father) and the Lord of lords (Jehovah,the Son). Deut 10:17 Worship the Father, the Son and their Holy Spirit as the fullness of Jehovah, who alone as a unity, was the creator of heaven and earth.
Hi Lightenup.
I was wondering, are you a Muslim? Because you seem to be denying the Son Jesus. I do not see Jesus mentioned anywhere in your signature.
Every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. 1John 4-3
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into licentiousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. Jude 1-4
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who shall secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2Peter-2
Hi toby,
No, I am certainly not a muslim. A muslim doesn't accept that Jesus has always been the literal Son of God from before creation. I do. I believe, as a literal Son of God that He would be just like His Father…deity. I mention “Jehovah, the Son” because I believe that Jesus, in His pre-existence was referred to as “Jehovah” and also “Lord of lords.” Although, He was not every reference of Jehovah mentioned…that was either His Father or the unity that He and His Father have together with their Holy Spirit.Rev 17:14 “These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.”
Thanks for your concern though,
Kathi
Hi Lightenup, ok. I just can't understand Jehovah the Father and Jehovah the Son, as Jesus is the name of the Son???But ok, take care,
and thank you Ed J
Hi toby,
Do you believe that Jesus pre-existed His birth in Mary? If so, what was His name before He came as a man through Mary? I believe that His name was Jehovah like His Father although He was not His Father…He was Jehovah, the Son.8But of the Son He says,
“YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER,
AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.9“YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS;
THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU
WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.”10And,
“YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH,
AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;11THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN;
AND THEY ALL WILL BECOME OLD LIKE A GARMENT,12AND LIKE A MANTLE YOU WILL ROLL THEM UP;
LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL ALSO BE CHANGED.
BUT YOU ARE THE SAME,
AND YOUR YEARS WILL NOT COME TO AN END.”This passage refers to Jehovah (LORD) in Psalms 102. Thus the Son is the Jehovah in Psalms 102.
God bless,
KathiQuote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 05 2012,21:15) Kathi, By that logic, EVERYTHING IN EXISTENCE is a “part of God”.
All things came “out from thee”, despite your unsubstantiated wish that they didn't.
I am a literal son who was begotten and born, and I'm ALSO a creation. Why do you think this wouldn't also apply for Jesus?
Kathi, Jesus was “brought forth into existence” by his God and our God. There are scriptures that speak of him being “begotten”, “born”, and “created”. None of those things would exclude being any other of those things. Being “begotten” doesn't exclude being “born”. And being “born” doesn't exclude being “created”.
Kathi, don't forget that anyone who was EVER born in the history of creation was also subject to a time when they didn't exist. Jesus is no exception.
Mike,
The Greek word translated as 'came out' is:exerchomai: to go or come out of
Original Word: ἐξέρχομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: exerchomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ex-er'-khom-ahee)
Short Definition: I go out, come out
Definition: I go out, come out.Show me where anything was said to 'exerchomai' from God besides His Only Begotten Son.
Btw…you were not 'created' but you were 'procreated.'
Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 05 2012,22:46) Mike,
The Greek word translated as 'came out' is:exerchomai: to go or come out of
Show me where anything was said to 'exerchomai' from God besides His Only Begotten Son.
The word “exerchomai” derives from “ex”. And it is “ex” which is used in the following verse:1 Cor 8:6 NET ©
yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we live, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we live.The primary definition of “ex” is “out of”. Now what?
Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 05 2012,22:46) Btw…you were not 'created' but you were 'procreated.'
Am I a creation, or a “procreation”? If you and I are CREATIONS, then you and I were CREATED. Don't try to confuse the issue just because you are losing your point, Kathi. I am a CREATION of my God, and my God never PROCREATED to CREATE me.And not only was I CREATED, but I was also BORN and BEGOTTEN. Just like Jesus.
Hi Kathi:
Thomas did express to Jesus when he believed that he finally believed that he had been raised from the dead, saying “My Lord and my God”, and the scriptures do not tell us why. Jesus stated in John 14 “he who has seen me has seen the Father”, and perhaps, this is why he makes this expression.
But following the scripture in which Thomas makes this expression, we have the following scripture:
Quote Jhn 20:30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; Jhn 20:31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name
Scripture must be line upon line and precept upon precept. The scriptures states that Jesus is the Son of God and not “God the Son”. Why would God reveal to you and as you say, many others that Jesus is also God, and so speak contrary to what he revealed to us in Matthew 16?
Quote 2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: . 2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
The scriptures is where I seek to get my understanding and not what the early church Fathers may have stated that they believed.
Sorry Kathi, my salvation is contingent in my believing that Jesus is the Christ the Son of the living God, and that God has raised him from the dead,and not that Jesus is “the begotten God”. God may have tasted death in the person of Jesus because His soul would have agonized because of what was done to His Son in that Jesus was obeying Him, but God is eternal and so, cannot die a literal death.
There is “Only One God”, Kathi.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi Marty,
I appreciate your time, really. Something that I don't believe you understand is that…BECAUSE Jesus is the Son of God, that is why He is also God like His Father. Together with their Holy Spirit, they are united as one God to us. Perfect Father begat perfect Son. Together they create, and save, and show wrath, and rule, etc. They act as one. Two perfect beings cannot be anything but in unity, otherwise one or both cease to be perfect. A perfect Father CANNOT beget a less than perfect Son. A perfect Son with the exact nature as His Father would not be less than God. He is less than the Father by position ONLY. Their nature is the same…i.e, they are EQUAL in nature but not equal in position. Those with that 'inherent' nature would not be anything but God…the highest type of being.So, both are God by nature yet by position in their relationship they are not both Father. One is the Father and one is the Son.
Because both are perfect they are in unity. If they were in disunity, one or both would not be perfect. They did not need to form this unity…it would be naturally formed just because they are both perfect with the nature of deity.This understanding has made scripture much easier to grasp and I'm sure that there is so much to learn building on the foundation that Jesus is the Son of God, the literal Son of God born before the ages. A literal Son of God would also be God but not also Father.
I don't think that you believe in the literal Son of the living God…you believe in a son who is a son unlike his Father. The son that you believe in is a creation of God, not an offspring of God.
God bless,
KathiQuote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 07 2012,14:06) Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 05 2012,22:46) Mike,
The Greek word translated as 'came out' is:exerchomai: to go or come out of
Show me where anything was said to 'exerchomai' from God besides His Only Begotten Son.
The word “exerchomai” derives from “ex”. And it is “ex” which is used in the following verse:1 Cor 8:6 NET ©
yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we live, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we live.The primary definition of “ex” is “out of”. Now what?
Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 05 2012,22:46) Btw…you were not 'created' but you were 'procreated.'
Am I a creation, or a “procreation”? If you and I are CREATIONS, then you and I were CREATED. Don't try to confuse the issue just because you are losing your point, Kathi. I am a CREATION of my God, and my God never PROCREATED to CREATE me.And not only was I CREATED, but I was also BORN and BEGOTTEN. Just like Jesus.
Hi Mike,
All things came 'out of' God, the Father. Think about it. We don't really know how all things came 'out of' God, the Father, but we are told that only one thing that came out of God was a begotten Son, otherwise He wouldn't be an ONLY begotten Son…all others were not begotten sons but created sons. I think that all things created came out of the Father because of Him planning it and creating the basic elements out of nothing. I do not believe that the substance that all created things are made of came out of the Father otherwise all creation would be pieces of the Father and He would always have been 'in' us. No need for Him to come to dwell in us if He has always been in us, right?You are a procreated creation of God, is that better
You were not begotten of God just like Jesus or He would not be the ONLY begotten Son.
You do not understand Jesus as a literal Son of God, you understand a created son of God. Big difference. A literal Son of God would be perfect with 'inherent' deity nature and always in unity with His perfect Father, imo.
Kathi
Kathi,
My points remain the same. Your last post has not offered any evidence to the contrary.
Point #1: All things, including Jesus, came “out of” God.
Point #2: Being begotten does not prohibit one from also being a creation.
Mike,
It is the words “My ONLY BEGOTTEN SON” that prohibits Him from also being a creation. When the Father said, “My ONLY” He didn't mean “My first.”Kathi
The words “only begotten” mean that Jesus was created in a way different from all the other things God created. It DOESN'T mean he isn't a creation, as many other scriptures attest.
Anyone who has ever existed, except for God Himself, is a creation of God. Jesus is no exception.
Mike,
The words 'my only begotten son' means that Jesus was begotten as an offspring, not a creation. It is your bias that attests to Him being a creation, not scriptures.Quote Anyone who has ever existed, except for God Himself, is a creation of God. Another point of view: Anyone who has ever existed, except God the Father and God the Son together with their Holy Spirit, is a creation of THEM.
The Father did not have to create anything to bring forth His Son who was always within Him, He just had to beget Him and that ACT was the beginning of the creation of God, God here is the unity of the Father and the Son.
Kathi
The act of the begetting the offspring, who always was within the Father, according to my understanding, was announced as “Let there be Light.” Those are the first words of the Father recorded in the Bible, btw. Jesus is our Lord, He is very God from very God and Light from Light. The Father has always been a Father, the Son has always been a Son. Both are the same yesterday, today and forever. That is my belief.
Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 11 2012,16:02) Hi Marty,
I appreciate your time, really. Something that I don't believe you understand is that…BECAUSE Jesus is the Son of God, that is why He is also God like His Father. Together with their Holy Spirit, they are united as one God to us. Perfect Father begat perfect Son. Together they create, and save, and show wrath, and rule, etc. They act as one. Two perfect beings cannot be anything but in unity, otherwise one or both cease to be perfect. A perfect Father CANNOT beget a less than perfect Son. A perfect Son with the exact nature as His Father would not be less than God. He is less than the Father by position ONLY. Their nature is the same…i.e, they are EQUAL in nature but not equal in position. Those with that 'inherent' nature would not be anything but God…the highest type of being.So, both are God by nature yet by position in their relationship they are not both Father. One is the Father and one is the Son.
Because both are perfect they are in unity. If they were in disunity, one or both would not be perfect. They did not need to form this unity…it would be naturally formed just because they are both perfect with the nature of deity.This understanding has made scripture much easier to grasp and I'm sure that there is so much to learn building on the foundation that Jesus is the Son of God, the literal Son of God born before the ages. A literal Son of God would also be God but not also Father.
I don't think that you believe in the literal Son of the living God…you believe in a son who is a son unlike his Father. The son that you believe in is a creation of God, not an offspring of God.
God bless,
Kathi
Hi Kathi:How do we know that Jesus is “the express image of God's person?
Love in Christ,
Marty
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