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Hi MB,
The only other christs are false ones.
Either you are part of the body of Christ sharing his powers and gifts or just another onlooker.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 06 2012,16:15) Hi K,
Was the reason that they all knew our God lives and none can compare with Him??
Yes Nick,
That is why they worshiped the Father and the Son.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 06 2012,16:27) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 05 2012,17:19) Mike,
When the creator is a unity of more than one member, there is no need of pluralizing the word 'creator' when speaking of the unity as the creator, nor is it necessary to pluralize the word 'creator' when there are two if you are just referring to one of them at that moment. Because one is addressed as the creator does not also mean the other wasn't.
But Jesus is never addressed as creating one single thing, Kathi. And in at least seven scriptures (and counting), he is clearly listed as someone other than the One who created all things.For example, in Acts 4, Peter and John prayed TO the One who created the heavens, earth, sea, and EVERYTHING in them. They prayed this prayer THROUGH that One's “holy servant Jesus Christ”.
It is clear that they didn't pray TO God's holy servant Jesus Christ. And the One they DID pray to is the ONE who created all things. If Jesus is not that One, then he has no choice but to be one of those things created BY that One.
The unity of God created everything and it is through one of the members of the unity that they directed their prayer through.Kathi
Nick,
Those who are one in Him and the Father worship both the Son and the Father, otherwise they are not one in them.Hi K,
We serve the Son who serves his Father.
In the Son we worship our God and his God.The ignorant in faith even wanted to worship Paul and Barnabus but they rent their clothes.
Join with the Son and you will be one with his God
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 06 2012,18:02) Hi MB,
The only other christs are false ones.
Either you are part of the body of Christ sharing his powers and gifts or just another onlooker.
Psalms 105:15 NIV ©
“Do not touch my anointed ones; do my prophets no harm.”The word there is the Hebrew word “messiah” (of which the Greek translation is “christ”).
Cyrus was also one of God's many messiahs/christs, and he was even foretold about long before he walked the earth – just like Jesus.
Like I said, God has had many christs.
Hi MB,
Yes many false messiahs and christs.
“Thieves and robbers”
Only Jesus was given the fullness of the SpiritSo God's christ Cyrus was a theif and a robber?
Isaiah 45 NIV ©
1 This is what the LORD says to his MESSIAH, to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of to subdue nations before him and to strip kings of their armour, to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut:2 I will go before you
and will level the mountains;
I will break down gates of bronze
and cut through bars of iron.
3 I will give you the treasures of darkness,
riches stored in secret places,
so that you may know that I am the LORD,
the God of Israel, who summons you by name.13 I will raise up Cyrus in my righteousness:
I will make all his ways straight.
He will rebuild my city
and set my exiles free,
but not for a price or reward,
says the LORD Almighty.These don't sound like things Jehovah would say about a “false messiah”, or a “thief/robber”.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 06 2012,19:21) Hi K,
We serve the Son who serves his Father.
In the Son we worship our God and his God.The ignorant in faith even wanted to worship Paul and Barnabus but they rent their clothes.
Join with the Son and you will be one with his God
Nick,
You need to be able to say that Jesus is Lord in order to be one in them, the Father and the Son. How is it that David said about Him, “the Lord has said to my Lord?”Is Jesus your Lord or your neighbor?
Falling short with the wrong answer keeps you from the kingdom of God.
Mark 12
28One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” 29Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD; 30AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.’ 31“The second is this, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” 32The scribe said to Him, “Right, Teacher; You have truly stated that HE IS ONE, AND THERE IS NO ONE ELSE BESIDES HIM; 33AND TO LOVE HIM WITH ALL THE HEART AND WITH ALL THE UNDERSTANDING AND WITH ALL THE STRENGTH, AND TO LOVE ONE’S NEIGHBOR AS HIMSELF, is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.” 34When Jesus saw that he had answered intelligently, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” After that, no one would venture to ask Him any more questions.35And Jesus began to say, as He taught in the temple, “How is it that the scribes say that the Christ is the son of David?
36“David himself said in the Holy Spirit,
‘THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD,
“SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
UNTIL I PUT YOUR ENEMIES BENEATH YOUR FEET.”’37“David himself calls Him ‘Lord’; so in what sense is He his son?” And the large crowd enjoyed listening to Him.
38In His teaching He was saying: “Beware of the scribes who like to walk around in long robes, and like respectful greetings in the market places, 39and chief seats in the synagogues and places of honor at banquets, 40who devour widows’ houses, and for appearance’s sake offer long prayers; these will receive greater condemnation.”
Jesus desires you to be in the kingdom not just near it.
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 01 2012,17:22) Lucky for you t8 was able to answer the question correctly. The answer is both can be credited with installing the pool cover, the company and the employee. Why is this so hard for you to answer? Because you know it will bust your 'Jesus did not make one single thing' theory?
Kathi, you are jumping to conclusions.We still do not know what capacity the Logos played in creation.
We only know that God made all things THROUGH.So it could be that God gave Christ as the Word a hammer and nails and a plan and said do what I tell you to do, or that God made all things himself and funneled that through the Logos perhaps in a similar way as a carpenter makes something using his hammer or like me building a web page through some software.
Like Trinitarians you are so bent on proving that there is more than one true God, that you force any view that could comply if viewed in a certain way to that it does comply.
It is not hard to see your bias at work.
e.g., if a certain person saved another person's soul by preaching the gospel and baptizing the person, do we assume that God saved the person through this person's willingness to be used by God, or that the person literally saved him and did it for the glory of God. Of course we know it would be the former, so it is also entirely possible that God actually made all things through agency which we call the Word and Christ.
There is simply not enough information in the bible to draw any firm conclusion that Jesus is one of the creators lending credence to the idea that God is made up of more than one person.
You are joining dots that likely are not meant to be joined.
t8,
I appreciate your thoughts and concern. Think about it though, if the Son did all the work and the Father just supplied the materials, He should be given credit for making something, don't you think? I was looking at the full moon out tonight, it was huge and majestic and I believe that the Son put the elements together (that the Father provided), and made it and hung it in place with His own power and wisdom as a response to the will of His Father. I see the Son as equally natured and equally capable of God sized tasks. I'm sure it appears biased but it is what I have the faith to believe. Jesus is as almighty as possible while still being under authority because of His true identity as the Son who would always be in perfect submission to His Father and refer to His Father as His God. I see a complete and perfect unity when I see verses that speak of the Son doing nothing apart from the Father. I don't see inability, I see perfect Father/Son unity within a Godhead. I see a the unity of the Father and Son together with their Holy Spirit as a requirement for the perfect fullness of deity and therefore I see eternal existence on the part of the Father and the Son (which would naturally eternally include their Holy Spirit). I believe that the Father was always perfect and complete with a Son and Spirit to form the fullness of God, a single unity of more than one person-each with deity nature. So it is no wonder and I am glad to hear you say that you see a 'bias' because it means that what I want to portray is actually being portrayed maybe. The scripture CAN be read the way that I am understanding by faith. For instance, the worship of Jesus is truly the worship of Jesus…not just a type of respect as towards a king. Also, when I read that He made all things and apart from Him nothing was made, I believe that HE ACTUALLY MADE ALL THINGS…like that big moon in the sky tonight.I think that I defend the Son so much that you may think that I forget about the Father but that is not the case. It is just that we mostly all see the Father as God Most High but we don't agree on how BIG the Son is. I see the Son BIGGER than practically anyone here, I suppose. I have the faith that He is almighty with the Father and also submissive to the Father because He is perfect. Anything less than submissive to the Father would make Him less than perfect as the Son and also cause dis-unity which I believe is IMPOSSIBLE when there are two perfect beings with deity nature. Any conflict between them would indicate imperfection among one or both. The Son truly knows His place under the Father and since He is under the Father, the Father would be His authority and His God.
You are looking for 'enough' information in the Bible to draw a firm conclusion. If it were clear as a bell, faith would be WITH what is seen and not evidence of things unseen. I see plenty scripture to say that Jesus is called God, with the nature of God yet a different person than the Father and that is all from the Bible. It is the Spirit that gives us the faith to believe and it takes little faith to believe that he is the little 'g' god and takes great faith to believe that He is the big 'G' God, the Begotten God. So, faith grows and we all don't have the same measure but all can have the same measure. We will know by experience someday. I fully expect that when we do come face to face with the Son, He will be far above anyone's highest thoughts and we will all be ashamed for speaking as if He were ever incapable of anything, some of us more so than others who speak of Him as only capable because He was just a willing chosen vessel who did no wrong.
Quote You are joining dots that likely are not meant to be joined. Or…ARE MEANT to be joined. The picture that I am understanding is not one that takes away from the Father but instead shows the Father as being capable of having such an almighty Son as opposed to showing the Father as not capable of having an almighty Son. See the difference. An almighty Son really does bring more glory to the Father and takes none away from the Father.
Have a good day in NZ…go check out the moon when it comes out,
KathiHi LU,
David wrote by the Spirit psalm 2 which Jesus quoted speaking of the prophesied Millenium where Jesus is given reign over the earth and brings it slowly back to perfect order.
By the flesh as a son of Joseph by adoption Jesus was David's son.THE LORD of course is the words substituted for YHWH by the Jews.
Calling Jesus LORD LORD does not make us one with him or his Father.
The question was; DID GOD DIE ON THE CROSS?
None of the trinies answered ya or nea,instead they make up this whole story,and quoting scriptures,with added words that are not found in the bible??
what do you think Nick?wakeup.
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