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hi gene
you deny that god wants you to chose between his will and the devil will ,the only will you or we have is to freely chose between the two ,i don't know if it is this that you call influenced choices ??
then i agree,but you have to chose between them of your free will what i mean by that is that now one push you or forces you to take one or the other ,the only influence will come from yourself and that's were the judgement of God is righteousness.and just.because you are responsible of your action before God.hi gene
St Augustine, author CS Lewis and others have argued God allows our bad actions since preventing them would undermine our freewill, the value of which outweighs its ill effects.what you think???
Terraricca……..So says St Augustine, CS Lewis and others, but scripture does not say that . There is (ONLY) ONE WILL that will exist and that is (NO) Mans WILL , but GODS ONLY that will Be done. Even His WILL is (NOT) a “FREE WILL” the very word WILL shows that there is INFLUENCING at Work. God Council is what influences His WILL to , Just as our do, except His council is far greater then what we have. Unless we Obey his words and understand them , then His Council is becoming ours. Just as His WILL works in Us. “for he works in us (BOTH) to (WILL) and do of HIS good PLEASURE”. we Need to be like Jesus and Put our Wills to death in obedience to the GOD''S WILL. But men do not want to do that , they hold on to their own wills, believing it will provide them the righteousness they need, by their so called “FREE” WILL Choices, something that does not exist. IMO
hi gene
you stuck with your doctrine influenced will.
i have told you now many times we humans are influenced with all kind of things left and right,but does not change the fact that you are picking the tings you want out of it all ,
you are not forced into your decisions you make them,do you understand that??
you are not obligated to respond to me this is your decision no is it
is any one force you to do it ???of cause your knowledge of what i have said may influence you to respond but i do not force you,do you understand??? you are free and it is voluntary that you respond to me,in the borders of your free will.if you serve the flesh or God it is the same thing it is your choice no body forces you one way or the other you may develop the understanding of the implication to one over the other but it still your choice,the influence is knowledge for the decision.
the grace of God is for the righteous not for the wicket so you have to choice it is not God who pick for you, if you pick to serve him then you receive the grace of live,
Quote (Gene @ Jan. 19 2010,22:48) Kerwin……..the whole point here is that there is (NO) Such thing as a so-called “FREE WILL” . That is a oxymoron A WILL is the result of (INFLUENCES) and that is (NOT) FREE. GOD'S WILL is the result of INFLUENCES ALSO. “FOR GOD DOES AL THINGS AFTER THE (COUNCIL) OF HIS OWN WILL. You see GOD'S WILL is a RESULT of COUNSEL, There are seven SPIRITS (intellects) of GOD and these Council HIM and (CAUSE) HIS WILL that takes the action. Again there exists no such thing as a “FREE WILL” the bibles nowhere mention that a man has a “FREE WILL”> Man wants to believe that because of His PRIDE. Man is an (I GOD), he likes to think he is the creator of his own salvation by his so-called “FREE WILL” Choices, and nothing could be further from the truth IMO. Only one WILL will be done and that is GOD'S WILL, all other WILL must cease> That GOD may be (ALL) in and THROUGH (ALL). May GOD help you to understand this Kerwin.
You are arguing about words. I already agreed there is no such thing as what you call “free will”. On the other hand there certainly is a definition of “free will” that does exist. You are getting entangled in the literal words when it is the idea those words express that is at issue. In this case I believe teraricca, whose native language is not English, understands what “free will” means better than you.Here is what the Stanford Encyclopedia states about “Free Will”.
hi kerwin
you can go to ;The Galilean Library. it explain it in a simple way ,but watch the example they put forthQuote (terraricca @ Jan. 20 2010,08:11) hi kerwin
you can go to ;The Galilean Library. it explain it in a simple way ,but watch the example they put forth
Thank you. They seemed to get confused about pressures put on a person to influence their free will.hi Kerwin
you know if we could not choose freely then what s the point for God to sacrifice his son and go through the gospel to assemble the lost soul of the kingdom.
it seems more like a false teaching .we have to offer ourselves to God the way Christ did by choice and voluntary.
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 20 2010,17:06) hi Kerwin
you know if we could not choose freely then what s the point for God to sacrifice his son and go through the gospel to assemble the lost soul of the kingdom.
it seems more like a false teaching .we have to offer ourselves to God the way Christ did by choice and voluntary.
terraricca.
Lets reverse your reasoning, “If mankind could 'choose' salvation with his 'free wiil', then why would Jesus have to die?”
Blessings.Quote (chosenone @ Jan. 21 2010,05:54) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 20 2010,17:06) hi Kerwin
you know if we could not choose freely then what s the point for God to sacrifice his son and go through the gospel to assemble the lost soul of the kingdom.
it seems more like a false teaching .we have to offer ourselves to God the way Christ did by choice and voluntary.
terraricca.
Lets reverse your reasoning, “If mankind could 'choose' salvation with his 'free wiil', then why would Jesus have to die?”
Blessings.
That is easy to answer. Jesus provided the way for without the way you cannot choose to follow the way.On the other hand terrraricca has a good question since if one is not accountable for their actions then their is not need for Jesus to sacrifice himself and so settle, atone, the account of mankind.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 21 2010,11:27) terraricca.
Lets reverse your reasoning, “If mankind could 'choose' salvation with his 'free wiil', then why would Jesus have to die?”
Blessings.[/quote]
That is easy to answer. Jesus provided the way for without the way you cannot choose to follow the way.On the other hand terrraricca has a good question since if one is not accountable for their actions then their is not need for Jesus to sacrifice himself and so settle, atone, the account of mankind.
Kerwin……> Yes there would be a need for Jesus to die for our sins , because the JUSTICE OF GOD (MUST) SATISFIED. Sin must be atoned for that justice to be satisfied. It demonstrates (HIS) GOD'S righteousness. IMOgene
free will is not the expression of being free in the absurd, but in the righteousness of God ,the reason God s plan was to save men of is sins ,what is keeping away from is face,God said i will give grace to whoever i want ,but the scriptures says that God give his grace to the righteous ones not the wicket ones,but we all are wicket because of our sins,so God pull out his right harm and send him to be the lamb for our ransom,so Christ teaches us that if we want, now we can be saved the only thing to do is to follow him and obey him,because we are living in sin ,we have to choose to follow him or not out of our free willingness ,because are decision is not that we save ourselves but do we accept the offer of God, to be saved,and in this way are free will is in the decision making not in the ability to be able to save ourselves without God.
do you understand??
Quote (Gene @ Jan. 21 2010,08:37) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 21 2010,11:27) terraricca.
Lets reverse your reasoning, “If mankind could 'choose' salvation with his 'free wiil', then why would Jesus have to die?”
Blessings.
That is easy to answer. Jesus provided the way for without the way you cannot choose to follow the way.On the other hand terrraricca has a good question since if one is not accountable for their actions then their is not need for Jesus to sacrifice himself and so settle, atone, the account of mankind.[/quote]
Kerwin……> Yes there would be a need for Jesus to die for our sins , because the JUSTICE OF GOD (MUST) SATISFIED. Sin must be atoned for that justice to be satisfied. It demonstrates (HIS) GOD'S righteousness. IMO
Sin only exists if there is accountability. An individual who is not accountable for their actions does not sin nor do they do right. They merely respond to a set of stimulus.Kerwin and Terraricca……………there is (NO) such thing as a FREE WILL, NONE exists. We are (CAUSED) by the operation of GOD'S (GRACE) to Chose the way of Salvation. “Where sin did abound (GRACE) did Much MORE Abound”> We are (CREATED) unto good works, Trying to glorify Man by his so-called (free will) is only PRIDE and self righteousness. But scripture say GOD Looked for (ONE) righteous man and Found (NONE), so much for our so-called “FREE WILL” right Choices. GOD the Father took responsibility for all the sins of the world and offered up His sacrificial Lamb (JESUS) for the sins of the (WHOLE) world. This satisfied the Justice of GOD and (demonstrated (HIS) righteousness. Notice it says (HIS) rightiousness, not ours by our so-called “FREE WILL” Choices all WILLS must cease and conform to GOD'S WILL. IMO
gene
you do not want to see the truth ,so stay in the dark and wait ,and believe a lie,you dont answer the call ,then you are on your own.
terraricca………..I believe it is you who do not want to see the truth and therefore remain in the dark. Pride can do much harm. To Think you have it all and what others say means they are in the dark if they don't line with what you say is nothing but Pride talking and nothing more. Truth is supposed to be the issue here and you have produce none with regard to so-called “FREE WILLS” being in Scriptures. There is only ONE that WILL BE DONE, not your or mine not even Jesus' , but GOD'S Counseled WILL ONLY> Rather you except that or not is YOUR Problem. IMO
gene
were did i say that Gods will ,will not be done
?and were did i say or talk about Free WILLS, i have talk about free will of ours,and i have it clearly explain it ,now if you are true why is it that you can not show that since the beginning of things it was like you say,
because we all know God does not change ,show us that we do not have to choose or do anything and yet be saved because God as determined that the gift of live is for the wicket in reward of is wickedness, unless he as to change and make a choice but according to you why making a change ? it is already determined, for the out come you say they are savedQuote (Gene @ Jan. 21 2010,18:15) Kerwin and Terraricca……………there is (NO) such thing as a FREE WILL, NONE exists. We are (CAUSED) by the operation of GOD'S (GRACE) to Chose the way of Salvation. “Where sin did abound (GRACE) did Much MORE Abound”> We are (CREATED) unto good works, Trying to glorify Man by his so-called (free will) is only PRIDE and self righteousness. But scripture say GOD Looked for (ONE) righteous man and Found (NONE), so much for our so-called “FREE WILL” right Choices. GOD the Father took responsibility for all the sins of the world and offered up His sacrificial Lamb (JESUS) for the sins of the (WHOLE) world. This satisfied the Justice of GOD and (demonstrated (HIS) righteousness. Notice it says (HIS) righteousness, not ours by our so-called “FREE WILL” Choices all WILLS must cease and conform to GOD'S WILL. IMO
So God lied when he told the Hebrew people they could make a freewill offering. In fact there is no such thing as intentional murder since one does not have intentions. In short you are contradicting yourself.In order for an individual to be accountable for their actions they must have free will.
I still believe your difficulty with understanding this is your definition of free will is wrong.
I suppose we could come to a better understanding if you can give you reasons why people are accountable for their sins.
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