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Terraricca…………> if your talking about the ONLY ROCK Being GOD, i can list about 30 scriptures that show that, if you need it. The ROCK that Jesus was going to build the Church on WAS GOD the FATHER and HIS ability to GET inside the Head of People and REVEAL the TRUTH Just as He did Jesus. Don't know what exactly you want me to respond to brother.
hi gene
i have left back there quotes on DRAW you never respond to ,so look for and respond,pleaseGroup: Members
Posts: 1159
Joined: Oct. 2009 Posted: Jan. 15 2010,03:24——————————————————————————–
geneyou do not answer my question
you just take a piece of verse and quote it, i see you have no difficulty to express your self so please answer my question on “draw”Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2010,12:23) hi gene DRAW goes two ways that is my point ,and it seems you did not understand it ,
this is why you did not understand what i try to say to you,
you are one sided viewer.
terraricca………You are talking about two different scriptures using the word draw, and if you are trying to show Jesus will (not) draw all men unto Him , you are then denying what Jesus said, In fact he will draw (ALL) men Unto Him (IN THEIR TIME). You have no Proof he will not in time do that, and this does not alter what He said concerning his statement that (NO) MAN (CAN) come unto me unless the FATHER (DRAW) or DRAG HIM. using one scripture to try to destory another is not wise. IMOGene and Terraricca,
When you read Matthew 5:6 have you considered that the people Jesus is appealing to in all his teachings are those that hunger and thirst for righteousness because they are the only ones who truly want to do all God commands. Their hunger and thirst for righteousness will draw them to Jesus’ teachings as drink and food draw those that hunger and thirst. In this Jesus is truly the food and drinks that last unto eternal life.
Draw is defined as causing to move after or toward one by applying continual force. The force in this case is the lure of true righteousness.
I hope that both of you figured that out. If not then you should get your spiritual ears and eyes examined and fixed by God. God desires that we all do everything he commands and we should remember that when we read scripture.
May God grant us all open ears, clear eyesight, and an understanding heart.
Kerwin
you should read what i quote so you would have seen that that s it is what i try to explain to gene.
Kerwin……..I agree with that , except it is GOD that (CAUSES) that desire in the FIRST PLACE. NOT of ourselves. That is the POINT>
hi gene
if we draw to God affairs then we can pray and ask for improving our knowledge and understanding of his WORD,(God as placed before all men the Good and the Evil and it is men hearth who decieded )terriraccia………Why do you go againt Jesus' words , he (PLAINLY) SAID, (NO MAN) (CAN COME) UNTO HIM UNLESS THE FATHER (DRAW) HIM. Please check out the Greek word for (DRAW) . You are continually trying to make salvation a work of MAN. GOD said he looked for (ONE) righteous Man and said HE found (NONE)> So he took it upon his (OWN) ARM to Bring SALVATION. He CREATES us Right by Changing our Hearts and MINDS. Surely you understand this right? He Says “for (I) God will take out of you the (STONY) heart and give you a Heart of (FLESH):, a soft heart, no one can do that on his or her own GOD MUST do it or it can NEVER BE DONE. WE are (CREATED UNTO GOOD WORKS). Get rid of you false ideas of a “so-called” FREE WILL, there is NO FREE WILL, only (INFLUENCED WILLS). Only (ONE) WILL will be done and that is GOD'S WILL. Rather you (WILL) it or NOT DOESN'T MATTER. Be like Jesus who said “thy kingdom come thy (WILL) be DONE in the earth as in heaven. GET IT , (ONE) WILL BE DONE, NOT EVEN JESUS' WILL WILL BE DONE. When we say GOD can draw us to Jesus (but only is we allow Him) is like professing GOD, but denying the (POWER THEREOF) Think about it Terraricca. WE are the clay and he is the pottewr and he can do what ever he chosses to with us , and if that is to (DRAW) us to Jesus he has (NO) problem doing it. IMO
gene
God does not draw us ,we are draw to him in our nature ,the same way wen you come out of the desert and you see a lake who are drawn to it because you thirsty,you draw to God because you know it is the way to everlasting live.
i am surprise about you you cut the virgin into maiden ,and other things,but you can't see Christ spirit
or Gods plan.i can see you have two main words “draw” and “intellect” there is more to the scriptures than two words.
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 16 2010,00:42) Kerwin you should read what i quote so you would have seen that that s it is what i try to explain to gene.
That is fine.Quote (Gene @ Jan. 16 2010,01:17) Kerwin……..I agree with that , except it is GOD that (CAUSES) that desire in the FIRST PLACE. NOT of ourselves. That is the POINT>
If you are stating that created us to be what we are then I cannot disagree. He created a fish to be a fish and a bird to be a bird so why would someone have trouble believing he created some to hunger and thirst for righteousness and others to be children of the devil.If a man creates a stick of dynamite should he be condemned for creating an item whose purpose is to be destroyed. I imagine the stick of dynamite would not necessary like that end. Even though that stick will be destroyed it can serve a good purpose in that destruction.
You are still using the wrong scripture to make that point since that is not what “draw” means.
Kerwin…..I understand your logic, However Scripture says “GOD is (NOT) WILLING (ANY) PARISH”. So why would he WILL to destory any, and if he is the POTTER and WE the CLAY, then, he will make us as He sees fit, but there is a positive thing going for all his creation it appears, and that is (HIS) WILL, and after all (HE) IS GOD.
Rom 8:20..> For the creature was made subject to vainity, not (WILLINGLY), But by reason if him who has subjected the same in hope, 22..> Because the creature itself also shall be delievered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the childern of GOD.
Many profess GOD but deny HIS POWER, Especially when it comes to saving us (ALL). It also say GOD'S WILL will be DONE in (ALL) and Through (ALL). So in that sense you stick of dynamite theory falls apart. IMO
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 16 2010,23:47) gene
you looking for a free ride
Terraricca……… And you what are you paying for your salvation with. Self WORKS, derived at from Your so-called (FREE WILL).“Come BUY without PRICE”, My salvation has already been paid for , That my friend is a FREE RIDE for ME, it wasn't for Jesus, it cost him his life. GOD the Father has applied the Blood of Jesus Christ to me because i have excepted (bought) it without Price, but as a gift from GOD.
“Unless GOD build the House the (WEARY) builders toil in vain, unless the LORD is the cities shield the Guards maintain a useless watch”.
Terraricca are you a weary builder?
gene
free will does not save you ,and using your free will does not save you either,what is saving you is you or we making the right decision to choose Gods way over Satan will ,through our free will ,because we have to go to God as volunteers not forced agents.then God grace becomes the gift of live.
what you saying is that you are saved no matter what ,God as already made everything possible so you are saved if you like or not. this is not Gods way.
Ro 8:28 We know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him
Gal 1:6 I am amazed. You are so quickly deserting the One who chose you because of the grace that Christ has provided. You are turning to a different “good news.”
Gal 1:7 What you are accepting is really not the good news at all.
It seems that some people have gotten you all mixed up. They are trying to twist the good news about ChristGal 2:11 When Peter came to Antioch, I told him to his face that I was against what he was doing. He was clearly wrong.
Gal 2:12 He used to eat with those who were not Jews. But certain men came from the group that was led by James. When they arrived, Peter began to draw back. He separated himself from the non-Jews. He was afraid of the circumcision group.
Gal 2:13 Peter’s actions were not honest. The other Jews joined him. Even Barnabas was led down the wrong path.
Gal 2:14 I saw what they were doing. It was not in line with the truth of the good news. So I spoke to Peter in front of them all. “You are a Jew,” I said. “But you live like one who is not. So why do you force non-Jews to follow Jewish ways?”
Gal 3:2 I would like to learn just one thing from you. Did you receive the Holy Spirit by obeying the law? Or did you receive the Spirit by believing what you heard?Gal 4:8 At one time you did’t know God. You were slaves to gods that are really not gods at all.
Gal 4:9 But now you know God. Even better, God knows you. So why are you turning back to those weak and worthless beliefs? Do you want to be slaves to them all over again?
Gal 4:10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!
Gal 4:11 I am afraid for you. I am afraid that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.Gal 6:9 Let us not become tired of doing good. At the right time we will gather a crop if we don’t give up.
if you still do not understand i will show you more.
Quote (Gene @ Jan. 18 2010,06:14) Kerwin…..I understand your logic, However Scripture says “GOD is (NOT) WILLING (ANY) PARISH”. So why would he WILL to destory any, and if he is the POTTER and WE the CLAY, then, he will make us as He sees fit, but there is a positive thing going for all his creation it appears, and that is (HIS) WILL, and after all (HE) IS GOD. Rom 8:20..> For the creature was made subject to vanity, not (WILLINGLY), But by reason if him who has subjected the same in hope, 22..> Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of GOD.
Many profess GOD but deny HIS POWER, Especially when it comes to saving us (ALL). It also say GOD'S WILL will be DONE in (ALL) and Through (ALL). So in that sense you stick of dynamite theory falls apart. IMO
Gene,Have you considered the possibility that God cannot prevent everyone from perishing because to do so would be for him to sin and God cannot sin.
Just like a stick of dynamite is needed for a purpose so are the wicked and just like the stick is destroyed to accomplish the purpose so are the wicked. This has led me to the belief that the wicked are needed to refine the righteous. If they were not need then God would not have created them in first place.
We must trust that God will save all that can be saved and that he is also both just and merciful even to those he will destroy.
Kerwin………Jesus said, if YOU BEING (EVIL) knowhow to give gifts to your childern how much more will God give them the spirit that ask. and again, “God looked for (ONE) righteous man and found (NONE) therefor he took it upon his own arm to bring salvation. and again “whosoever calls on the name of the LORD (SHALL) be saved”, and again “GOD is no respecter of Persons” and again, “I will have mercy on whom I Will have mercy”, and again “blessed is the man whom the LORD will impute no sin and who's iniquities he has covered”. and again, “as I live says the LORD i have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, and again THE LORD IS (NOT) WILLING THAT (ANY) PARISH, BUT ALL COME TO REPENTANCE, and again, “I shall take outr of them the stony heart and give them a heart of flesh and (I) Will write my laws on their minds and put them in their inward parts, and again, “there is (NOTHING) impossible with GOD”.
“For they preach GOD (BUT) (DENY) the POWER Thereof. Man want to put his salvation into his OWN HANDS by His So-CALLED “Free Will” thinking. But when it comes to putting that Will to death and truly submitting to the Will of GOD that is another subject, Man will not let his Will die , therefore GOD had to take it upon HIMSELF to (CAUSE) that to Happen, as in the case of Jesus when He recieved the SPIRIT at the JORDAN, GOD must Put his (SEED) SPIRIT in Us in order for us to Chose HIS way. We must (ALL) Be taught (BY) GOD. IMOQuote (Gene @ Jan. 18 2010,22:56) Kerwin………Jesus said, if YOU BEING (EVIL) knowhow to give gifts to your childern how much more will God give them the spirit that ask. and again, “God looked for (ONE) righteous man and found (NONE) therefor he took it upon his own arm to bring salvation. and again “whosoever calls on the name of the LORD (SHALL) be saved”, and again “GOD is no respecter of Persons” and again, “I will have mercy on whom I Will have mercy”, and again “blessed is the man whom the LORD will impute no sin and who's iniquities he has covered”. and again, “as I live says the LORD i have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, and again THE LORD IS (NOT) WILLING THAT (ANY) PARISH, BUT ALL COME TO REPENTANCE, and again, “I shall take outr of them the stony heart and give them a heart of flesh and (I) Will write my laws on their minds and put them in their inward parts, and again, “there is (NOTHING) impossible with GOD”.
“For they preach GOD (BUT) (DENY) the POWER Thereof. Man want to put his salvation into his OWN HANDS by His So-CALLED “Free Will” thinking. But when it comes to putting that Will to death and truly submitting to the Will of GOD that is another subject, Man will not let his Will die , therefore GOD had to take it upon HIMSELF to (CAUSE) that to Happen, as in the case of Jesus when He recieved the SPIRIT at the JORDAN, GOD must Put his (SEED) SPIRIT in Us in order for us to Chose HIS way. We must (ALL) Be taught (BY) GOD. IMO
I am having a bit of trouble understanding what you wrote. I have only has a few hours of sleep so I will attempt to understand again later.One point is that God can do anything as long as he does not sin. That statement supports both God's power and his righteousness. If one doubts either then they doubt that the true God exists.
Kerwin……..the whole point here is that there is (NO) Such thing as a so-called “FREE WILL” . That is a oxymoron A WILL is the result of (INFLUENCES) and that is (NOT) FREE. GOD'S WILL is the result of INFLUENCES ALSO. “FOR GOD DOES AL THINGS AFTER THE (COUNCIL) OF HIS OWN WILL. You see GOD'S WILL is a RESULT of COUNSEL, There are seven SPIRITS (intellects) of GOD and these Council HIM and (CAUSE) HIS WILL that takes the action. Again there exists no such thing as a “FREE WILL” the bibles nowhere mention that a man has a “FREE WILL”> Man wants to believe that because of His PRIDE. Man is an (I GOD), he likes to think he is the creator of his own salvation by his so-called “FREE WILL” Choices, and nothing could be further from the truth IMO. Only one WILL will be done and that is GOD'S WILL, all other WILL must cease> That GOD may be (ALL) in and THROUGH (ALL). May GOD help you to understand this Kerwin.
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