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WJ….i believe we sin because of the body of sin that we still have and at times we are brought into captivity by it. But when we are we have an advocate with the Father, why would we need an advocate if we never would sin after we recieve the Spirit then. And if your have (FREE WILL) then why do you sin at times. Surely you would chose not to right, so what happened to you so-called free will, it was overcome by the sin in your body and that sin (CAUSED YOU TO YELLED) But was it really you, NO it was Sin that dwells in you just as Paul said.
It (CAUSED) you to sin even through your so-called “free will” was against it, so much for “free will” right. I believe God wants us to see it is not a matter of our wills at all but HIS WILL, in fact our (WILLS) must be put to death, like Jesus put His WILL to death. Your are not saved by your works but by the GRACE of GOD, least any should boast, and believe me many would boast if they Saved themselves by their our so-call free wills. IMO
WJ..> I was thinking the other night about who hard your Job really is, dealing with peoples sorrows and trying to give them some encouragement when tragedy comes along, it really does take a special type of person to do that, your calling is no cake walk brother. May God give you strength to do it. I had a minister ask me ounce what I thought the people needed, and i said they need to be encouraged because life is not easy for anyone and they face this world all week long and need to be lifted up at church not beat down by hammering sermons. Anyway i just wanted to share that with you.
peace to your and yours…………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 19 2008,15:07) Nick…..Paul said he found when he would do good there was evil present bringing him into captivity. Why did not Paul say he always chose what was right then , why did he say with his mind he served the law of God but with his body the law of sin and death, and called himself a wretched man then. Why did he seem to not be able to always serve God then, he certainly (WILLED TO), right?. And when did i say (I) was divinely lead so I cannot sin. If you don;t know that there is both the carnal or Flesh mind in us as well as the spiritual mind then you know very little about what scripture says. We are lead by God's Spirit through the operation of GRACE (Gods influencing on the heart) but we do not yet have the fullness of the spirit, but the earnest of it. And John said if we say we have no sin we are liars. Are you saying you have no sin Nick. Why do you keep trying to twist up my words if you are going to say something i said please have the decency to quote me right OK.
Hi GB,
So we have two minds?
Is not a doubleminded man unstable in all his ways?
Do all men have a spiritual mind then from their origins and none needs to be reborn from above?Nick………If you understood what it means to be reborn you would know that GOD considers us temples in which He can indwell and where it says let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus it's the same mind of God, but that is not our mind but the mind of God and that mind has a will just as your mind does and we through the power of that mind must put our mind to death or will same thing. It really surprises me on how little you seam to know and understand about the word of GOD. A double minded man is one who goes one way and then goes another it has nothing to do with two separate minds. You really do seem confused on what i am saying. If i am not presenting something right then please show me, but quite making stupid remarks about what i am saying in order to discredit me please.
Hi GB,
You needed to clarify what you said.
Now what of the heathen -does he have a new mind?
How can God lead a heathen to righteousness without rebirth from above?
Does not the sinner remain under the wrath of God?Nick…….we are (ALL) sinners there is none rightetious no not (ONE) , God said, He looked for (ONE) and could not find (ONE) therefore He took it upon His (OWN) arm to being salvation. Jesus said why call me good there is (ONLY) ONE who is good and that is GOD. Cant you see God comes into us and co-habits with us in our bodies. No you not that your bodies are the temple of God, didn't Jesus plainly say that the Father was (IN) him. There were two wills or minds in Jesus body His and GOD's and He put His will to death and followed the Fathers WILL, the same thing has to Happen to us.
God does not impute our sins to us because of the sacrifice of Jesus being applied to us, so we have forgiveness of sins, but as long as we are in these bodies we will have sin present as Paul plainly said. David said blessed is he whom the Lord will not impute sin who's iniquities he has covered. WE have a covering given to us so the same of our nakedness does not appear before God and that covering is the Blood of Jesus. But i am not saying we have a license to sin God forbid. But if we sin we do we have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ.
Hi GB,
Certainly those that God inhabits are His temples but God does not live in all men.
We must be born again.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 19 2008,16:13) Nick………If you understood what it means to be reborn you would know that GOD considers us temples in which He can indwell and where it says let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus it's the same mind of God, but that is not our mind but the mind of God and that mind has a will just as your mind does and we through the power of that mind must put our mind to death or will same thing. It really surprises me on how little you seam to know and understand about the word of GOD. A double minded man is one who goes one way and then goes another it has nothing to do with two separate minds. You really do seem confused on what i am saying. If i am not presenting something right then please show me, but quite making stupid remarks about what i am saying in order to discredit me please.
Hi Gene,1 Corinthians 2:16
“For who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.It appears that we do not have the mind of God but of Christ. One mind we are not able to have, but the other we have access to?
Mandy
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 19 2008,01:48) T8….and the definite article does not separate the puppet from the Show does it, because it is (the ) puppet show. 
Gene.In the beginning was a show is quite different to in the beginning was the show.
The puppet isn't even mentioned in either of the above.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 19 2008,02:04) t8 Good points.
Notice even though you do not hold a Trinitarian view I still give a thumbs up for a good post no matter who it is!
Yes I noticed and I have noticed the same thing in at least one or two other occasions.But to be fair it is easy to agree with a post when it doesn't infringe on something else you are holding on tight too.
But I will take the credit, and give a thanks in return.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 19 2008,18:19) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 19 2008,16:13) Nick………If you understood what it means to be reborn you would know that GOD considers us temples in which He can indwell and where it says let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus it's the same mind of God, but that is not our mind but the mind of God and that mind has a will just as your mind does and we through the power of that mind must put our mind to death or will same thing. It really surprises me on how little you seam to know and understand about the word of GOD. A double minded man is one who goes one way and then goes another it has nothing to do with two separate minds. You really do seem confused on what i am saying. If i am not presenting something right then please show me, but quite making stupid remarks about what i am saying in order to discredit me please.
Hi Gene,1 Corinthians 2:16
“For who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.It appears that we do not have the mind of God but of Christ. One mind we are not able to have, but the other we have access to?
Mandy
Mandy……the mind of Christ or the mind of the Christos is the mind of the anointing, it is God's mind. “if the mind of Him who raised Christ from the Dead abide in you (IT) shall also quicken you mortal body”, Like it did His. It is All God's will at work and God's will is His mind working in Us, expressed by the word GRACE, (Gods influencing on our hearts). IMOlove and peace to you and yours…………gene
Hi GB,
You should quote scripture accurately.
Rom8
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit [4151]of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.4151
Number 4151
Transliteration:
pneuma {pnyoo'-mah}
Word Origin:
from 4154
TDNT:
6:332,876
Part of Speech:
noun neuter
Usage in the KJV:
Spirit 111, Holy Ghost 89, Spirit (of God) 13, Spirit (of the Lord) 5, (My) Spirit 3, Spirit (of truth) 3, Spirit (of Christ) 2, human (spirit) 49, (evil) spirit 47, spirit (general) 26, spirit 8, (Jesus' own) spirit 6, (Jesus' own) ghost 2, misc 21Total: 385
Definition:
a movement of air (a gentle blast
of the wind, hence the wind itself
breath of nostrils or mouth
the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
the soul
a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
a life giving spirit
a human soul that has left the body
a spirit higher than man but lower than God, i.e. an angel
used of demons, or evil spirits, who were conceived as inhabiting the bodies of men
the spiritual nature of Christ, higher than the highest angels and equal to God, the divine nature of Christ
of God
God's power and agency distinguishable in thought from his essence in itself considered
manifest in the course of affairs
by its influence upon the souls productive in the theocratic body (the church) of all the higher spiritual gifts and blessings
the third person of the trinity, the God the Holy Spirit
the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.No mind there.
God is spirit not mindT8….my point was to show that a definite article can be used as a descriptor of a Nouns attribute also. Like (THE) wood House . the definite article is part of the descriptor of the house and we then also could say (THE) wood was with the House and the wood was the house. Wood is part of what the House is composed of right. So it is not separate from the house. This is the way John 1:1 would have to be (if) no one changes anything in the wording and to say it doesn't mean exactly what is written is to reconstruct the text and also say John did not Know how to just say Jesus if that's what he meant to say. So we have two errors we have to except then, one, John did not know how to say Jesus, two, we need to change the word (WORD) to a person, which is changing the text and forcing it to mean a preconceived theology. And remember the original Greek was written in all capital letters so how could the have understood it to mean Jesus when thee were on upper and lower case littering at the time it was written. IMO
Peace to you and yours………gene
Nick…..So much for you posted confusion to try to support you theology but, Jesus plainly said the FATHER WAS IN HIM, Please explain how was He In HIM if Not by his spirit. What i said was right it was the spirit of God in Jesus or the Anointing that was in Him was God's Spirit. And if that (SAME) Spirit be in us (IT) will Quicken our mortal bodies, Just like it says. Thsi is simple to understand and all true Christians should know that. When ever we see the Word Christ we should realize it means (the Anointed) or Christos, Jesus.IMO
peace……….gene
Nick……..to say the Spirit is not the mind is to say the spirit produces no intellect and then would be worthless to anyone. Your lack of understanding about what Spirit is prevents you from seeing clearly, from seeing that God's Spirit is the mind of God and the Spirit is the source of our words which it is our intellect and reveals the thoughts of God to us, (IF) you have it.The mind is not separate from the spirit it functions through the Spirit and is therefore a product of Spirit. IMO
peace…………….gene
Nick……..this thread is about Determinism, Act2:23…>” Him being delievered by the (Determinate) council and Foreknowledge of GOD”. Determinism is definitely the plan of God. IMO
peace……….gene
Quote nothing is Just happenstance. Regarding men, “time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all.” (Eccl 9:11)
David ……But God is not a man and He has determined everything, and set the limits of all things He never turned it over to man did He. Man functions within the parameters God has set in place. Man is not the captain of His destiny. God is in control of all things or how could only His will would be done then.
peace……..Gene
Quote GOD is going to (SAVE EVERYONE) ultimately PROVERBS 2:21-22
“For the upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it. As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it.”Quote It plainly Says GOD is not willing that any parish, . . . if He is not willing for any to parish then non will parish, 2 peter 3:9
“The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.”
“The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but (B)is patient toward you, ©not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.”
Jehovah is patient because he desires all to attain to repentance. Those who stubbornly refuse to turn back from their bad ways face execution at the hand of Jehovah. However, God finds no pleasure in the death of the wicked one. Rather, he delights to see people repent, turn back from their bad ways, and keep living. (Ezekiel 33:11)
He is exercising patience and is having the good news declared in all the earth so that people may have every opportunity to live.It is God’s merciful desire that all of Adam’s offspring repent, and he has generously made provision for forgiveness of the sins of those who do. But he does not force anyone to accept that provision. (Compare Deuteronomy 30:15-20.) Many reject it. They are like a drowning man who pushes away a life preserver when it is thrown to him by someone who desires to help.
Does 1 Corinthians 15:22 prove that all humans will eventually be saved? It says: “As in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.” (RS) As shown in the surrounding verses, what is under discussion here is resurrection. Who will be resurrected? All whose death is attributable to Adamic sin (see verse 21) but who have not also personally committed the willful transgressions set forth in Hebrews 10:26-29. As Jesus was raised from Hades (Acts 2:31), so all others who are in Hades will be “made alive” by means of the resurrection. (Rev. 1:18; 20:13) Will all of these gain eternal salvation? That opportunity will be open to them, but not everyone will take hold of it, as is indicated at John 5:28, 29, which shows that the outcome to some will be adverse “judgment.”
What about texts such as Titus 2:11, which refers to “the salvation of all men,” according to the rendering of RS? ? Other texts, such as John 12:32, Romans 5:18, and 1 Timothy 2:3, 4, convey a similar thought in RS, KJ, NE, TEV, etc. The Greek expressions rendered “all” and “everyone” in these verses are inflected forms of the word pas. As shown in Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words (London, 1962, Vol. I, p. 46), pas can also mean “every kind or variety.” So, in the above verses, instead of “all,” the expression “every kind of” could be used; or “all sorts of,” as is done in NW. Which is correct—“all” or the thought conveyed by “all sorts of”? Well, which rendering is also harmonious with the rest of the Bible? The latter one is. Consider Acts 10:34, 35; Revelation 7:9, 10; 2 Thessalonians 1:9. (Note: Other translators also recognize this sense of the Greek word, as is shown by their renderings of it at Matthew 5:11—“all kinds of,” RS, TEV; “every kind of,” NE; “all manner of,” KJ.)
Are there scriptures that definitely show that some will never be saved?
2 Thess. 1:9, RS: “They shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might.”
Rev. 21:8, RS: “As for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.”
Matt. 7:13, 14, RS: “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.”
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 20 2008,15:37) David ……But God is not a man and He has determined everything, and set the limits of all things He never turned it over to man did He. Man functions within the parameters God has set in place. Man is not the captain of His destiny. God is in control of all things or how could only His will would be done then. peace……..Gene
While I agree that God is the soveriegn lord of the universe, He does not determine everything. I just moved my foot slightely forward. Did God look into the future and determine I would do that? Does he not have better things to do?Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 20 2008,15:10) Nick……..to say the Spirit is not the mind is to say the spirit produces no intellect and then would be worthless to anyone. Your lack of understanding about what Spirit is prevents you from seeing clearly, from seeing that God's Spirit is the mind of God and the Spirit is the source of our words which it is our intellect and reveals the thoughts of God to us, (IF) you have it.The mind is not separate from the spirit it functions through the Spirit and is therefore a product of Spirit. IMO peace…………….gene
Hi GB,
To be frank I do not care what the implications are. What I do care about is that scripture is truth and it does not need the logic additions of men to be deciphered. Such things destroy the integrity of the Word and make it man's teachings.
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