- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 18 2008,11:39) Hi not3,
So to whom was the book written?
In the specific context whom was it speaking of?
We are servants of a hard master in these matters of what is written.
Hi not3,
You quoted scripture so we need to find the context before making any presumptions about who it applies to.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 18 2008,10:45) T8……..You might be more of a robot then you think you are, Proof (there is not one thought you think that did not come into you from a outside source. All Good that every will exist always existed, and all Evil that will ever exist always existed. For the is (NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN) we are told. People who want to be a God unto there selves hate the idea of caused obedience because it limits there own power in there lives and the carnal mind (HATES) the idea of that. The Carnal mind Hates the Absolute SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD> DO you think you create a new kind of righteousness that unique to you and I create a new Kind of righteousness that unique to me and so on with every human being who ever existed and we become some kind of independent GOD. NO there is (ONLY ONE RIGHTEOUSNESS) and guess what it always existed and always will we are called to do the will of GOD, not create it in ourselves, thats something GOD has to DO in us, not by our own so-called free wills, there is no “free will” and even the captivated wills we have are to be destroyed so that (ONLY ONE WILL WILL BE DONE AND THATS GOD'S WILL). Personally i will settle for being a clone or robot of God any day.If He will fill me with His perfection and Holiness thats good enough for me. Man Hates the thought of them not being their own God and thats why their minds are an enemy to Gods laws and are not subject to them neither indeed can be , because man wants to not subject himself to God but want to be a GOD Himself. Make His own decisions as reguards to his salvation by the power of His own choices. Pure foolishness. IMO peace to you and yours…………gene
Hi Gene.I am not a God so nothing originates in me. There are 2 originators, the Father of lights and the Father of lies.
I am almost defined by the collection of thoughts and actions that I choose. Just as a cook doesn't create the ingredients, he still bakes the dish the way he wants using the already existing ingredients.
T8…….. You are right you are not GOD an nothing does (ORIGINATE) withing you. The collections of thoughts were installed in you through you life and you simple chose from them and as a result your choice was caused and had nothing to do with a free choice because the word free choice means without (ANY) Influencing what so ever, from past or present , but we choose what is already in us. and therefore the choices are caused and what we do is the effect of those choices. God works (IN) us to WILL to do HIS good Pleasure. WE are caused by God's Spirit to make the choices that GOD would want us to. Again cause and effect at work. Gods causes us to be transformed into a new creation. It is not a matter of our own WillS. And T8….you are not the cook GOD is, you are the Dish and He the one creating the dish to His liking.
I disagree with you saying there are two originators the father of light and the father of darkness , I believe there is only creator and originators of both light and darkness and that is GOD himself. He can and does withhold light and He gives light also. He darkened the understanding of Israel in part as Paul said, and in time will give them light again. He is in control of (ALL) things that exists, and there is no other who is. He said He created both light and darkness and good and evil and non can deliver from his hands.
T8….we have to understand the FATHER is in control of (ALL) things and give Him the (FULL) GLORY and RESPECT He ALONE Deserves. We need to Glorify Him as Jesus did, saying I have glorified YOU on the earth, we must also.
peace to you brother and yours…………..gene
Hi GB,
Believe it or not God wants you to take a part in His victory.
He doesn't need you and could do it all without you and I of course.
We are privileged to be asked to contribute so we can share in the triumphs.No dolls house kingdom.
No Punch and Judy show
Get real-He is.Nick…….. i agree with that, so who is putting on a punch and Judy show Nick. And I know full well he is real, He has shown me that Hundreds of times in my life i don't kid myself about what He can and will do at all, He has showed me that also many many times.
Nick…please stop talking down to me i have been involved with the Father and the kingdom for over fifty years now and have studied the scriptures even the Greek translations and have discussed many subject with the Jewish Rabbis and others church organizations most of that time and God has shown me a lot of spiritual truths in his word. I have written articles and had some published in the ACTS magazine about the trinity. Nick you need to understand i am no novice concerning the word of God, So please show me that respect OK. Most of what i say has been thought out most of the time but i do not consider myself as knowing it (ALL) and i know i have still a lot to learn.
peace brother………..gene
Hi GB,
Then treat scripture with more respect I would suggest.
Your own opinions do not compare in integrity but you seem to prefer show us them instead.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 18 2008,15:13) T8…….. You are right you are not GOD an nothing does (ORIGINATE) withing you. The collections of thoughts were installed in you through you life and you simple chose from them and as a result your choice was caused and had nothing to do with a free choice because the word free choice means without (ANY) Influencing what so ever, from past or present , but we choose what is already in us. and therefore the choices are caused and what we do is the effect of those choices. God works (IN) us to WILL to do HIS good Pleasure. WE are caused by God's Spirit to make the choices that GOD would want us to. Again cause and effect at work. Gods causes us to be transformed into a new creation. It is not a matter of our own WillS. And T8….you are not the cook GOD is, you are the Dish and He the one creating the dish to His liking. I disagree with you saying there are two originators the father of light and the father of darkness , I believe there is only creator and originators of both light and darkness and that is GOD himself. He can and does withhold light and He gives light also. He darkened the understanding of Israel in part as Paul said, and in time will give them light again. He is in control of (ALL) things that exists, and there is no other who is. He said He created both light and darkness and good and evil and non can deliver from his hands.
T8….we have to understand the FATHER is in control of (ALL) things and give Him the (FULL) GLORY and RESPECT He ALONE Deserves. We need to Glorify Him as Jesus did, saying I have glorified YOU on the earth, we must also.
peace to you brother and yours…………..gene
I see two to dangers in your quoted reply.1. If all (including sin) originates in God, then it is he that is the ultimate God of darkness and evil. But the truth is that there is no darkness in God.
2. You mentioned that free choice means “without (ANY) Influencing what so ever”, but I disagree. If I am being tempted by the flesh or the Devil, it must also be noted that God is also leading us by the Spirit and convicting us. I am actually free to choose to let the flesh or the devil have his way, or I can be led by the Spirit. This is pretty much what Paul taught in Romans (I think it was). He said that if we are led by the Spirit then we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. The danger of what you are saying is that all responsibility is removed and therefore we are not responsible for our sin or our choice to let the Spirit lead us. So you are rendering Paul's teaching on overcoming sin a thing that we cannot choose and therefore it seems pointless that he teaches on the choice of sinning or being led by the Spirit.
If you were really hungry and you had $10, but you also couldn't wait to see a particular movie, then you now have 2 influences. You can either fulfill your stomach or your desire to be entertained. In this example even though there are influences, it doesn't nullify the fact that you can choose one over the other. You could make the rebuttal that people will go for the strongest influence, but that I do not agree with either. I can remember times in my life that temptation to sin was so strong that my desire to do what was right was but a still small voice. Yet I have no idea how I resisted it and went for the lesser influence at that moment. I just knew it was wise not to sin. In other words I had 2 influences pulling on me and chose the lesser one because I knew that I would only regret what I did if I chose the one my carnal nature really wanted.
In other words we do not have to be complete slaves to the strongest influence.
BTW: I think that your view also says that what I am writing is the result of God's influence. So if I am wrong in what I say, then is God wrong?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 18 2008,18:13) Nope. Must be before my time? 
Or maybe it's a NZ thing?
Actually that was interesting.Nick said “have you heard of the puppet show”.
If he said “have you heard of a puppet show”, then your answer would probably be yes. But the fact that he used the definite article (THE) meant that he was identifying a particular puppet show of which you have not heard of.
Anyway, maybe he meant Muppet Show. I just couldn't resist the opportunity to make the point of how the definite article changes the meaning.
Anyway, back to the subject at hand…
T8….and the definite article does not separate the puppet from the Show does it, because it is (the ) puppet show.
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 18 2008,19:26) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 18 2008,15:13) T8…….. You are right you are not GOD an nothing does (ORIGINATE) withing you. The collections of thoughts were installed in you through you life and you simple chose from them and as a result your choice was caused and had nothing to do with a free choice because the word free choice means without (ANY) Influencing what so ever, from past or present , but we choose what is already in us. and therefore the choices are caused and what we do is the effect of those choices. God works (IN) us to WILL to do HIS good Pleasure. WE are caused by God's Spirit to make the choices that GOD would want us to. Again cause and effect at work. Gods causes us to be transformed into a new creation. It is not a matter of our own WillS. And T8….you are not the cook GOD is, you are the Dish and He the one creating the dish to His liking. I disagree with you saying there are two originators the father of light and the father of darkness , I believe there is only creator and originators of both light and darkness and that is GOD himself. He can and does withhold light and He gives light also. He darkened the understanding of Israel in part as Paul said, and in time will give them light again. He is in control of (ALL) things that exists, and there is no other who is. He said He created both light and darkness and good and evil and non can deliver from his hands.
T8….we have to understand the FATHER is in control of (ALL) things and give Him the (FULL) GLORY and RESPECT He ALONE Deserves. We need to Glorify Him as Jesus did, saying I have glorified YOU on the earth, we must also.
peace to you brother and yours…………..gene
I see two to dangers in your quoted reply.1. If all (including sin) originates in God, then it is he that is the ultimate God of darkness and evil. But the truth is that there is no darkness in God.
2. You mentioned that free choice means “without (ANY) Influencing what so ever”, but I disagree. If I am being tempted by the flesh or the Devil, it must also be noted that God is also leading us by the Spirit and convicting us. I am actually free to choose to let the flesh or the devil have his way, or I can be led by the Spirit. This is pretty much what Paul taught in Romans (I think it was). He said that if we are led by the Spirit then we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. The danger of what you are saying is that all responsibility is removed and therefore we are not responsible for our sin or our choice to let the Spirit lead us. So you are rendering Paul's teaching on overcoming sin a thing that we cannot choose and therefore it seems pointless that he teaches on the choice of sinning or being led by the Spirit.
If you were really hungry and you had $10, but you also couldn't wait to see a particular movie, then you now have 2 influences. You can either fulfill your stomach or your desire to be entertained. In this example even though there are influences, it doesn't nullify the fact that you can choose one over the other. You could make the rebuttal that people will go for the strongest influence, but that I do not agree with either. I can remember times in my life that temptation to sin was so strong that my desire to do what was right was but a still small voice. Yet I have no idea how I resisted it and went for the lesser influence at that moment. I just knew it was wise not to sin. In other words I had 2 influences pulling on me and chose the lesser one because I knew that I would only regret what I did if I chose the one my carnal nature really wanted.
In other words we do not have to be complete slaves to the strongest influence.
BTW: I think that your view also says that what I am writing is the result of God's influence. So if I am wrong in what I say, then is God wrong?
t8Good points.
Notice even though you do not hold a Trinitarian view I still give a thumbs up for a good post no matter who it is!
I wish more would be like this. Then we would be more like believers and practicing Yeshua's words when he says “whoever is for us is not against us”.
Most however are afraid of being labeled or marked for agreeing with the enemy.
Not3 seems to be about the only one that will encourage or correct no matter who it is. IMO
Truth is Truth no matter who it is speaking it.
T8….you resisted the sin because greater was he that was in you then he that is in the world, You will (always) chose the greatest influence at the time of choice this has been proved time and time again. Why did Paul express the when he said when he would do good he found a the influence of evil there and the good that he would do he did not do and the evil he wouldn't do that he did and called his self a wretched man. He was expressing to us we will fail at times because of the body of death that we have with us exercises it power over us at time so we alway are living in hope of deliverance are we not. For if we say we have not sin we are lairs and the truth is not in us right. The greater influence does rule brother weather it is GOD or the fresh the Greater will rule. That why we have to continually as for help daily because it is a daily battle we are engaged in. Its all cause and effect and Salvation is caused by GOD not by US or our so-called free will choices. IMO
peace ………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 19 2008,02:07) T8….you resisted the sin because greater was he that was in you then he that is in the world, You will (always) chose the greatest influence at the time of choice this has been proved time and time again. Why did Paul express the when he said when he would do good he found a the influence of evil there and the good that he would do he did not do and the evil he wouldn't do that he did and called his self a wretched man. He was expressing to us we will fail at times because of the body of death that we have with us exercises it power over us at time so we alway are living in hope of deliverance are we not. For if we say we have not sin we are lairs and the truth is not in us right. The greater influence does rule brother weather it is GOD or the fresh the Greater will rule. That why we have to continually as for help daily because it is a daily battle we are engaged in. Its all cause and effect and Salvation is caused by GOD not by US or our so-called free will choices. IMO peace ………gene GB
Hi GB
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 19 2008,02:07)
T8….you resisted the sin because greater was he that was in you then he that is in the world, You will (always) chose the greatest influence at the time of choice this has been proved time and time again.But if this is true and the scriptures say that “Greater is he that is in us than he that is in the world” meaning the greater influence is the Spirit which wars against our flesh, then why do we still sin?
Is the influence of the flesh greater than the co-existing influence of the Spirit?
No, we have the ability to choose “freely”.
WJ
Hi GB,
On the one hand you tell us you are a carnal man struggling to be set free
and on the other say you are divinely led such that you cannot err.
Make your mind up.Nick…..Paul said he found when he would do good there was evil present bringing him into captivity. Why did not Paul say he always chose what was right then , why did he say with his mind he served the law of God but with his body the law of sin and death, and called himself a wretched man then. Why did he seem to not be able to always serve God then, he certainly (WILLED TO), right?. And when did i say (I) was divinely lead so I cannot sin.
If you don;t know that there is both the carnal or Flesh mind in us as well as the spiritual mind then you know very little about what scripture says. We are lead by God's Spirit through the operation of GRACE (Gods influencing on the heart) but we do not yet have the fullness of the spirit, but the earnest of it. And John said if we say we have no sin we are liars. Are you saying you have no sin Nick. Why do you keep trying to twist up my words if you are going to say something i said please have the decency to quote me right OK.
Hi GB,
So if you like Paul are torn between your will and God's will
why do you teach that God's will is always done through men?Hi GB,
Mt21
28But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.29He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
30And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
31Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
It seems the will of God is not done through some of God's servants
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
