Determinism

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 25 2010,15:32)

edj you got it totally wrong we do not try to convince Gene,you,or anyone else,but apply what is true not lies it seems you don't care for truth..??

Hi Terraricca,

Why do you make incorrect judgments like this one?
I was merely pointing out to Kerwin, what he said about me also applies to him as well.
This point I make is “Truth”, something you were unaware of,
otherwise you wouldn't have made a hasty judgment against me!

Ed J

[terraricca]

edj

In light of your failure to convince Gene otherwise;it is to this i respond not the other words.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 25 2010,03:28)

hi kerwin yes i have seen it;what he is saying is that God as determine all things and that he is saving anyone who he want to,and will not save anyone who he do not want to,and because God control all events he also pre determind all world affaires.and if we are saved it is because he as wanted it. do i understand it right???

That may be what he believes but that is not what I meant by his definition of free will as you can have both free will and determinism.

His definition seems to mean a will that is even free from you ability to choose as he considers your desires and thoughts as influences.

You cannot resolve you dissolve your disagreement until you agree on common definitions for the terms you are using.

At this time you are talking past each other.

[kerwin]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 25 2010,10:24)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 25 2010,00:57) Quote (Gene @ Jan. 24 2010,00:57) Kerwin………You are misunderstanding me. Accountability is indeed a personal accountability. Rather it be GOD or Man, What has that to do with the subject of “FREE” WILLS, if your trying to relate to it. The definition Accountability does (NOT) imply a “FREE” anything it simply shows we are held accountable for our actions.  The subject of “FREE” WILLS is not the issue only accountable WILLS are. To try to imply because GOD holds us accountable means we Have “FREE WILL” is an error. There exist no such thing as a “FREE” WILL only INFLUENCED WILLS EXIST. Show one scripture that shows our accountability has to do with any So-Called “FREE” WILL. It just does not exist. It would just not be a WILL if it was FREE of any INFLUENCE. Can't you see that brother. peace and love……………gene If you believe that then you are not understanding the reasoning behind those who argue for free will.  Have you ever did a study of what those who support free will mean?  I have tried to point out a few sources and they agree that their is a link between free will and accountability in most cases. As for showing you one scripture where accountability has to do with individual will or free will.  There are many.  Of course scripture may not call it either individual will or free will but will instead let you figure out it is voluntary. Ezekiel 24:14(KJV) reads: Quote ” 'I the LORD have spoken. The time has come for me to act. I will not hold back; I will not have pity, nor will I relent. You will be judged according to your conduct and your actions, declares the Sovereign LORD.' “ and Job 31:11(KJV) reads: Quote For this is an heinous crime; yea, it is an iniquity to be punished by the judges. Here is some scriptures that speak of free will. Philemon 1:14(KJV) reads: Quote But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly. and Ezra 7:13(KJV) reads: Quote I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee. Hi Kerwin, In light of your failure to convince Gene otherwise, could not what you have said to me also apply to you as well? Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 20 2010,16:42) Ed J., A lot of your other scriptures you use as premises fail to actually support your conclusion.   Instead it looks like you assumed your conclusion when quoting those scriptures. God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

I do not believe so but I have certainly fallen to error in the past. This one is rather simple since free will just means you choose according to you desires and thoughts with no outside controls other than yourself. In words you volunteer. Then again maybe it is not so simple.

The English language is difficult to use as can be interpreted different than you intend.

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 26 2010,01:34)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 25 2010,10:24) Hi Kerwin, In light of your failure to convince Gene otherwise, could not what you have said to me also apply to you as well? Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 20 2010,16:42) Ed J., A lot of your other scriptures you use as premises fail to actually support your conclusion.   Instead it looks like you assumed your conclusion when quoting those scriptures. God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org I do not believe so but I have certainly fallen to error in the past.  This one is rather simple since free will just means you choose according to you desires and thoughts with no outside controls other than yourself.   In words you volunteer.  Then again maybe it is not so simple.   The English language is difficult to use as can be interpreted different than you intend.

Hi Kerwin,

I personally do believe in “Free Will”. What else could this verse be talking about if not free will?

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 26 2010,04:29)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 26 2010,01:34) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 25 2010,10:24) Hi Kerwin, In light of your failure to convince Gene otherwise, could not what you have said to me also apply to you as well? Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 20 2010,16:42) Ed J., A lot of your other scriptures you use as premises fail to actually support your conclusion.   Instead it looks like you assumed your conclusion when quoting those scriptures. God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org I do not believe so but I have certainly fallen to error in the past.  This one is rather simple since free will just means you choose according to you desires and thoughts with no outside controls other than yourself.   In words you volunteer.  Then again maybe it is not so simple.   The English language is difficult to use as can be interpreted different than you intend. Hi Kerwin, I personally do believe in “Free Will”. What else could this verse be talking about if not free will? John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

It is speaking of being set free from bondage to sin.   Of course we freely choose to sin or not to sin.   The bondage is our own divided desires which comes the corrupt spirit of man we inherit from our ancestors.

[GeneBalthrop]

ED J………It could also be to set free of error thinking, and may not have anything to do with So-called “FREE WILL”. To me there exist no WILL FREE of influences and desires, Not even GOD'S WILL. “for God does (ALL) things after the (COUNSEL) of HIS OWN WILL”. So you see even GOD'S WILL is a Counseled WILL, and therefore and influenced one. In fact the every word WILL IMPLIES influences or it simply would be no WILL at all, if those influences were not there. No Scripture speaks of a WILL being (FREE) in fact the opposite is implied. While we may be allowed by GOD to exercise our (INFLUENCED) WILLS freely that does not means (OUR) Wills are FREE WILLS.

peace and love……………..gene

[terraricca]

hi gene

i will be soon ready to answer you on determinism and free will

[terraricca]

hi
i do not want this topic to run from me and Gene

[NickHassan]

Hi,
This popular puppet man theory is behind the false universal salvation folly.

[terraricca]

gene

could you explain what is determinism? and how God as determind that men as no say in anything Gods does?

[GeneBalthrop]

Terricca……….Determinism is a (SELF WILL) procedure. And there are those who are Self Determined, But GOD Also HAS DETERMINATION, and I believe He is the ONE with the POWER to carry out HIS WILL, with or with MANS SELF WILL Approval. I know you think (FREE) Will is what is important , but it is NOT, only GOD'S WILL is, Our will only cause us to screw up things. Jesus understood this, that is why he said (NOT) MY WILL, but THY WILL Be Done. You as well as all so-called (FREE) WILLERS want to be in control of your own destinies and you are not now or ever will be. Free Will Doctrines only puff up EGOS and are (NOT) truly submissive to the WILL of GOD, It's just a self focus that pumps the Ego's. We need to learn to put OURSELVES or (WILL) to death as Jesus did His. “WE are Created UNTO GOOD WORKS” that is not from our own WILLS, T. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………gene

[NickHassan]

G,
So Jesus submitted his will to that of God.
How does this relate to the godless?

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 06 2010,04:47)

Terricca……….Determinism is a (SELF WILL) procedure. And there are those who are Self Determined, But GOD  Also  HAS DETERMINATION, and I believe He is the ONE with the POWER to carry out HIS WILL, with or with MANS  SELF WILL Approval. I know you think (FREE) Will is what is important , but it is NOT,  only GOD'S WILL is, Our will only cause us to screw up things. Jesus understood this, that is why he said (NOT) MY WILL, but THY WILL Be Done. You as well as all so-called (FREE) WILLERS want to be in control of your own destinies and you are not now or ever will be. Free Will Doctrines only puff up EGOS and are (NOT) truly submissive to the WILL of GOD, It's just a self focus that pumps the Ego's.  We need to learn to put OURSELVES or (WILL) to death as Jesus did His. “WE are Created UNTO GOOD WORKS” that is not from our own WILLS,  T. IMO peace and  love to you and yours……………………gene

gene

i do not understand some thing in your presentation,if i have to kill my will, what authority do i have to possess that will that i can kill it??

[NickHassan]

HiT,
He is stubborn and driven by personal dogmatism.

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 06 2010,13:22)

HiT, He is stubborn and driven by personal dogmatism.

nick

in that case gene may never answer my question

[terraricca]

all

this is GENE legacy, how then can he believe in free will ?predetermination.

Pierre

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (terraricca @ July 01 2010,01:28)

all this is GENE legacy, how then can he believe in free will ?predetermination. Pierre

Terricca………….Your distorted view of me is not my legacy, it is your lack of understanding what i have posted that is the problem here and You again show you Legacy as the accuser of the brothers , wounder what spirit that is from? Is this all you can do is go look up past posts and try to organize a slander campaign against me.

You constantly say we don't answer you question and in fact we have but you refuse to read and understand outposts. IMO

peace and love…………………..gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 01 2010,02:18)

Quote (terraricca @ July 01 2010,01:28) all this is GENE legacy, how then can he believe in free will ?predetermination. Pierre Terricca………….Your distorted view of me is not my legacy, it is your lack of understanding what i have posted that is the problem here and You again show you Legacy as the accuser of the brothers , wounder what spirit that is from?  Is this all you can do is go look up past posts and try to organize a slander campaign against me. You constantly say we don't answer you question and in fact we have but you refuse to read and understand outposts. IMO peace and love…………………..gene

gene

the truth will stand on it's own grounds it does not need help.

Pierre

[GeneBalthrop]

Terriaricca……….So why don't you try it for a change i am sure we would all appreciate it here.

peace and love……………….gene

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