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Quote (Cato @ June 25 2008,10:01) While I agree that most often people, especially in the past, mistook mental illness for demonic possession, how do you explain Mathew 8 as scripture without saying the authors were mistaken or exagerated? If it were a mere case of mental illness why the bit about the pigs? I myself find the Bible sometimes dubious and often allegorical, but since you are appealing to folks to follow scripture and not pagan traditions I would be interested in your explanation as to how mental illness was transferred to the pigs.
28 And he having come to the other side, to the region of the Gergesenes, there met him two demoniacs, coming forth out of the tombs, very fierce, so that no one was able to pass over by that way, 29 and lo, they cried out, saying, `What — to us and to thee, Jesus, Son of God? didst thou come hither, before the time, to afflict us?' 30 And there was far off from them a herd of many swine feeding, 31 and the demons were calling on him, saying, `If thou dost cast us forth, permit us to go away to the herd of the swine;' 32 and he saith to them, `Go.' And having come forth, they went to the herd of the swine, and lo, the whole herd of the swine rushed down the steep, to the sea, and died in the waters,Why would fallen angels, supposedly intelligent want to be cast in swine that then go nuts and drown themselves?
We know that people with certain mental illnesses are so crazy they have multiple personalities. These personalities can be quite bizarre and crazy, and also comprehensive and intelligent. Would you put it past one of these personalities to say something crazy, even to Yeshua, such as make me go into a pig?
Why can't a disease that affects the human brain be cast into a pigs brain?
The pigs did indeed go crazy didn't they?
Do you know anything about Mad Cow disease? There are illnesses out there that man and animals share alike, these include diseases affecting the spinal cord and brain.
Matthew 8 fits in very well with my understanding.
Hi Jodi,
Should we expurgate from scripture what our scientific minds cannot see and accept?
Would that not threaten the integrity of scripture and our faith in it?
Demons never were angels-that is not written anywhere.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2008,12:21) Hi Jodi,
Should we expurgate from scripture what our scientific minds cannot see and accept?
Would that not threaten the integrity of scripture and our faith in it?
Demons never were angels-that is not written anywhere.
Hi Nick,God inflicts man. God brings evil curses and evil destruction upon man. Whether it be an earthquake, famine, blindness, deafness, dumbness, or scitzofrenia. The bible is clear that there is NO Other that does these things.
Demons in the bible either represent evil spirits otherwise known as false gods that have no power, or they represent evil spirits which our God Almighty produced inside the human body to inflict as a form of punishment to those that did not obey His word.
Hi Jodi,
I agree sin lives within men and by our actions it is conceived.[Jas]
God allows satan's kingdom to test men[Jb1-2]
Did Jesus cast false gods out of men?Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2008,13:44) Hi Jodi,
I agree sin lives within men and by our actions it is conceived.[Jas]
God allows satan's kingdom to test men[Jb1-2]
Did Jesus cast false gods out of men?
In these scriptures demons do not represent false gods, but evil spirits which people have been inflicted with through the genetics of their sinful ancestors of whom God punished.Mt 17:18 and Jesus rebuked him, and the demon went out of him, and the lad was healed from that hour.
Mark 1:23 And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit, and he cried out, 24 saying, `Away! what — to us and to thee, Jesus the Nazarene? thou didst come to destroy us; I have known thee who thou art — the Holy One of God.' 25 And Jesus rebuked him, saying, `Be silenced, and come forth out of him,' 26 and the unclean spirit having torn him, and having cried with a great voice, came forth out of him,
Mr 9:25 Jesus having seen that a multitude doth run together, rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, `Spirit — dumb and deaf — I charge thee, come forth out of him, and no more thou mayest enter into him;'
Lu 4:39 and having stood over her, he rebuked the fever, and it left her, and presently, having risen, she was ministering to them.
Mt 9:33 And when the demon had been cast out, the one who had been mute spoke; and the crowds were amazed and said, “Never has anything like this been seen in Israel.”
Lu 9:42 While he was coming, the demon dashed him to the ground in convulsions. But Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, healed the boy, and gave him back to his father.
Even people who are mad, get that there is one God and that He is powerful. Jas 2:19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe–and tremble!
These scriptures are referring to demons as false gods. False gods do not possess powers to inflict people. They do however contain lies which people soak up.
1Corinthians 10:18 Observe Israel after the flesh: Are not those who eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? 19 What am I saying then? That an idol is anything, or what is offered to idols is anything? 20 Rather, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God, and I do not want you to have fellowship with demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord's table and of the table of demons. 22 Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than He?
1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
While I have not taken the time to dig into the GREAT Symbolism given to us in the book of Revelation, and I have yet to discern specifics, what I do believe is clear is that this end time prophecy has everything to do with man, governments, their ideologies, their false gods and their false teachings.
Revelation 9:20But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk.
Revelation 16:12 Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Revelation 18:1 After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illuminated with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a loud voice, saying, “Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird! 3 For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury.” 4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
I do not see anywhere in the bible that substantiates the idea that a kingdom exists between earth and God's Heavenly abode that is filled with jealous sinful angels and or secret hiding celestial evil spirits, that can deceive and draw us to sin, and or can inflict us with madness and other ailments. I see people taking scriptures way out of context to fit their doctrine, allowing their imaginations to run wild as to what certain words or terms in the bible mean, rather looking directly at what the scriptures say that they mean.
Hi Jodi,
Jn9
1And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.2And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
3Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
Hi Nick,
De 28:20 The Lord will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him.
27 The Lord will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28 The Lord will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. 29 At midday you will grope about like a blind man in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you.
58 If you do not carefully follow all the words of this law, which are written in this book, and do not revere this glorious and awesome name–the Lord your God– 59 the Lord will send fearful plagues on you and your descendants, harsh and prolonged disasters, and severe and lingering illnesses.
Quote (Jodi @ June 26 2008,16:27) Hi Nick, De 28:20 The Lord will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him.
27 The Lord will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28 The Lord will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. 29 At midday you will grope about like a blind man in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you.
58 If you do not carefully follow all the words of this law, which are written in this book, and do not revere this glorious and awesome name–the Lord your God– 59 the Lord will send fearful plagues on you and your descendants, harsh and prolonged disasters, and severe and lingering illnesses.
Jodi! You are taking these Scriptures out of contact. These Scriptures are meant for the Jewish people who did not obey God from the beginning. That is their punishment and it was in effect until 1948 when Israel became a Nation again. My Husband thinks tho that there is one more punishment left for them. That will bring in the beginning of the end. It says that only 1/3 of His poeple will be left over. I did put up an article on Isreal and all is explained by my Husband. Many think that God is done with Israel which I don't believe.
In Christian Love Irene
P.S. I bumped up Israel for you if you want to read it.Quote (Irene @ June 25 2008,21:46) Quote (Jodi @ June 26 2008,16:27) Hi Nick, De 28:20 The Lord will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him.
27 The Lord will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28 The Lord will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. 29 At midday you will grope about like a blind man in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you.
58 If you do not carefully follow all the words of this law, which are written in this book, and do not revere this glorious and awesome name–the Lord your God– 59 the Lord will send fearful plagues on you and your descendants, harsh and prolonged disasters, and severe and lingering illnesses.
Jodi! You are taking these Scriptures out of contact. These Scriptures are meant for the Jewish people who did not obey God from the beginning. That is their punishment and it was in effect until 1948 when Israel became a Nation again. My Husband thinks tho that there is one more punishment left for them. That will bring in the beginning of the end. It says that only 1/3 of His poeple will be left over. I did put up an article on Isreal and all is explained by my Husband. Many think that God is done with Israel which I don't believe.
In Christian Love Irene
P.S. I bumped up Israel for you if you want to read it.
Hi Mrs.I am not quite following you here. I believe that all diseases including mental illness, AKA Madness, through out all of time- past, present and future, come from God and inflict ALL people. I sure don't know of any nation that has not reaped of the wrath of God. Deuteronomy shows us that even the Hebrews who God was showing the truth to, were no exception of His wrath.
My use of those scriptures was to show that the bible tells us directly that mental illness is the result of God's doing and that diseases are indeed past down from one generation to the next. Modern medicine and science does indeed show us that diseases are genetic.
Thanks for bumping up that thread, I will check it out.
Peace to you, your sister in Christ's love Jodi
Quote (Jodi @ June 26 2008,08:40) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2008,12:21) Hi Jodi,
Should we expurgate from scripture what our scientific minds cannot see and accept?
Would that not threaten the integrity of scripture and our faith in it?
Demons never were angels-that is not written anywhere.
Hi Nick,God inflicts man. God brings evil curses and evil destruction upon man. Whether it be an earthquake, famine, blindness, deafness, dumbness, or scitzofrenia. The bible is clear that there is NO Other that does these things.
Demons in the bible either represent evil spirits otherwise known as false gods that have no power, or they represent evil spirits which our God Almighty produced inside the human body to inflict as a form of punishment to those that did not obey His word.
If demons have no power how do they deceive and teach?1 Tim 4:1 “The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.”
Rev 16:14 “They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.”
Have intelligence?
Jam 2:19 “You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.”If they are evil spirits sent by God himself then why would God counter his own judgement? If they, the demons, are from God why would he oppose himself? If God drives out God he is divided against himself.
Mat 12:25 – 28 “Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Personally I find the idea of spiritual embodiments of evil easier to believe then God doing the evil himself. Also for the record I don't believe in punishment, but rather cause and effect. Evil and Good rebound upon the creator of same, evil essentially punishes itself.
Quote (Jodi @ June 26 2008,08:40) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2008,12:21) Hi Jodi,
Should we expurgate from scripture what our scientific minds cannot see and accept?
Would that not threaten the integrity of scripture and our faith in it?
Demons never were angels-that is not written anywhere.
Hi Nick,God inflicts man. God brings evil curses and evil destruction upon man. Whether it be an earthquake, famine, blindness, deafness, dumbness, or scitzofrenia. The bible is clear that there is NO Other that does these things.
Demons in the bible either represent evil spirits otherwise known as false gods that have no power, or they represent evil spirits which our God Almighty produced inside the human body to inflict as a form of punishment to those that did not obey His word.
Jodi,How can you serve and love such a God? One that inflicts such pain and suffering onto his children?
Quote (gollamudi @ June 26 2008,23:35) Hi Cato,
These are also my doubts on “no personal demons/spirits”
mine tooQuote (Not3in1 @ June 27 2008,00:23) Quote (Jodi @ June 26 2008,08:40) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2008,12:21) Hi Jodi,
Should we expurgate from scripture what our scientific minds cannot see and accept?
Would that not threaten the integrity of scripture and our faith in it?
Demons never were angels-that is not written anywhere.
Hi Nick,God inflicts man. God brings evil curses and evil destruction upon man. Whether it be an earthquake, famine, blindness, deafness, dumbness, or scitzofrenia. The bible is clear that there is NO Other that does these things.
Demons in the bible either represent evil spirits otherwise known as false gods that have no power, or they represent evil spirits which our God Almighty produced inside the human body to inflict as a form of punishment to those that did not obey His word.
Jodi,How can you serve and love such a God? One that inflicts such pain and suffering onto his children?
exactly…I was just trying to point that out to some on here who believe in destiny and Predestination of everyoneQuote (gollamudi @ June 27 2008,01:50) Please DK,
Don't go to that again. Let us stay on this subject.
Thanks
Adam
My comments are on topic…Quote (Not3in1 @ June 26 2008,05:23) Quote (Jodi @ June 26 2008,08:40) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2008,12:21) Hi Jodi,
Should we expurgate from scripture what our scientific minds cannot see and accept?
Would that not threaten the integrity of scripture and our faith in it?
Demons never were angels-that is not written anywhere.
Hi Nick,God inflicts man. God brings evil curses and evil destruction upon man. Whether it be an earthquake, famine, blindness, deafness, dumbness, or scitzofrenia. The bible is clear that there is NO Other that does these things.
Demons in the bible either represent evil spirits otherwise known as false gods that have no power, or they represent evil spirits which our God Almighty produced inside the human body to inflict as a form of punishment to those that did not obey His word.
Jodi,How can you serve and love such a God? One that inflicts such pain and suffering onto his children?
Mandy that is a very good question and one that deserves a good honest answer.By now you know I am a girl of many words, and this important question can not be answered with some short little post, so I will work on this and get back to you as soon as I can.
Peace to you , your sis, Jodi
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