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Hi GM,
Absolutely.
You meet them in people every day.Acts 19:12
So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.
Matthew 8:16
When evening came, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed; and He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were ill.Matthew 8:31
The demons began to entreat Him, saying, “If You are going to cast us out, send us into the herd of swine.”Acts 19:15
And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?Gollamudi…… Thanks for the spelling tip brother, as you and others have noticed my spelling is not the best. in fact its not good at all.
What i want to bring out is who has a description what a (SPIRIT) is. I will tell you what I think it is. Jesus said the (words) He spoke were Spirit and Life. Somaybe life with intellect is Spirit no Matter if it's good or evil its still Spirit because it contains intellect of some kind. We are also told to try the Spirits to see if they are of God. So what are we trying is it not words, which are intellects. I have come to think of Spirits as intellects that all ready exist and we attach to then or they can attach to us. if we attach to a unclean intellect we will demonstrate that quality in our lives. And some people are more easily effected then others because of some Physical or mental condition they have. Jesus said when an unclean spirit leaves a man His house is clean, but what happened it came back and brought more with it, and the last state of the man was worse then the first. Now when the mans mental house was clean had He filled it with clean spirit the house would have been filled and the unclean could not have reentered. Therefore Spirits are intellects that control a mind and therefore control the person. And unless they are removed they will continue to influence the person, but they can be cast out and the person can be restored. Just my opinion, that all.
peace brother……….gene
Hi GB,
These beings seem to be able to think for themselves.
Luke 11:24
When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 19 2008,15:07) Gollamudi…… Thanks for the spelling tip brother, as you and others have noticed my spelling is not the best. in fact its not good at all. What i want to bring out is who has a description what a (SPIRIT) is. I will tell you what I think it is. Jesus said the (words) He spoke were Spirit and Life. Somaybe life with intellect is Spirit no Matter if it's good or evil its still Spirit because it contains intellect of some kind. We are also told to try the Spirits to see if they are of God. So what are we trying is it not words, which are intellects. I have come to think of Spirits as intellects that all ready exist and we attach to then or they can attach to us. if we attach to a unclean intellect we will demonstrate that quality in our lives. And some people are more easily effected then others because of some Physical or mental condition they have. Jesus said when an unclean spirit leaves a man His house is clean, but what happened it came back and brought more with it, and the last state of the man was worse then the first. Now when the mans mental house was clean had He filled it with clean spirit the house would have been filled and the unclean could not have reentered. Therefore Spirits are intellects that control a mind and therefore control the person. And unless they are removed they will continue to influence the person, but they can be cast out and the person can be restored. Just my opinion, that all.
peace brother……….gene
Gen I have noticed about your spelling also, but you can correct that. First you can Check on top where it states ABC Check. Then you can ask for editing rights and if after you posted and you find an error, you can still change it.Demons what an interesting post this is. But what defines which is good for us or bad for us. Sometimes when we think it is bad for us, later after all is over with, we see that it was done for us, so we will grow.
Maybe we should all take up Phycology to understand our minds better. Controlling our minds is something that I have had some problems with. I start out with one subject and before I know it, I am in another, and sometimes even forget about the first alltogeter.
Maybe that has to do with getting old. I also want to get as much into that mind of mine as I can. We really don't know what part of our minds that God is going to reveal again and use. The Holy Spirit of God will bring to mind when we need it.
Peace and Love IreneIrene…..Yes i am getting that way to, my age is starting to catch up with me. The older i get the more i realize that all the evil things we have all experienced in our lives were necessary or God would not have put us through it all. Because He could have stopped it any time he wanted but i think it's all needful and in the long run we will all be the better for it. It does say for you are sorrowed unto righteousness, and again Godly sorrow works repentance not to be repented of. I believe a day will come when we will thank God for all the evil we have experienced because it taught us to hate evil and love good.
love and peace to you and yours……….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 19 2008,16:18) Irene…..Yes i am getting that way to, my age is starting to catch up with me. The older i get the more i realize that all the evil things we have all experienced in our lives were necessary or God would not have put us through it all. Because He could have stopped it any time he wanted but i think it's all needful and in the long run we will all be the better for it. It does say for you are sorrowed unto righteousness, and again Godly sorrow works repentance not to be repented of. I believe a day will come when we will thank God for all the evil we have experienced because it taught us to hate evil and love good. love and peace to you and yours……….gene
You got it Brother.Peace and Love Irene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 19 2008,15:07) Gollamudi…… Thanks for the spelling tip brother, as you and others have noticed my spelling is not the best. in fact its not good at all. What i want to bring out is who has a description what a (SPIRIT) is. I will tell you what I think it is. Jesus said the (words) He spoke were Spirit and Life. Somaybe life with intellect is Spirit no Matter if it's good or evil its still Spirit because it contains intellect of some kind. We are also told to try the Spirits to see if they are of God. So what are we trying is it not words, which are intellects. I have come to think of Spirits as intellects that all ready exist and we attach to then or they can attach to us. if we attach to a unclean intellect we will demonstrate that quality in our lives. And some people are more easily effected then others because of some Physical or mental condition they have. Jesus said when an unclean spirit leaves a man His house is clean, but what happened it came back and brought more with it, and the last state of the man was worse then the first. Now when the mans mental house was clean had He filled it with clean spirit the house would have been filled and the unclean could not have reentered. Therefore Spirits are intellects that control a mind and therefore control the person. And unless they are removed they will continue to influence the person, but they can be cast out and the person can be restored. Just my opinion, that all.
peace brother……….gene
Hi brother,
Don't worry we are able to understand the subject fully. I hope you have the editing rights from 'Heaven' with that you can correct then and there easily.
Peace to you
Adam“because we have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places.”
Etymology-demons
demon
1387, from L. dæmon “spirit,” from Gk. daimon (gen. daimonos) “lesser god, guiding spirit, tutelary deity,” (sometimes including souls of the dead), used (with daimonion) in Christian Gk. translations and Vulgate for “god of the heathen” and “unclean spirit.” Jewish authors earlier had employed the Gk. word in this sense, using it to render shedim “lords, idols” in the Septuagint, and Matt. viii.31 has daimones, translated as deofol in O.E., feend or deuil in M.E. The original mythological sense is sometimes written dæmon for purposes of distinction. The Demon of Socrates (1387) was a daimonion, a “divine principle or inward oracle.” His accusers, and later the Church Fathers, however, represented this otherwise. The Demon Star (1895) is Beta Persei (in Ar. Algol “the Demon”) so called because it visibly varies in brightness every three days. Fem. form demoness first attested 1638. Demonic is from 1662; demonize is from 1821.So we can easily see here…demons=unclean spirits, fallen angels
There ruler is satan the devil…and this is there fate:
Jude 6 (nwt)- 'And the angels that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place he has reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day.”
Hi brother,
These fallen angels already bound in chains in abyss and kept waiting for the day of Judgment. How can you call them demonic spirits which are moving freely among men on this earth?Quote (gollamudi @ June 20 2008,02:16) Hi brother,
These fallen angels already bound in chains in abyss and kept waiting for the day of Judgment. How can you call them demonic spirits which are moving freely among men on this earth?
Hey GM..Look again…the bible says that he has the judgement “reserved” for them…meaning that they have not received their final judgement yet…right now they are in “tartarus”.. “a place of dense SPIRITUAL darnkess”
Job 1:6 (niv)- 6 One day the angels [a] came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”
Satan answered the LORD, “From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it.”Revelation 12:9- 9The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
Luke 10:18-21- 18He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
“because we have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places.”
Some translations say “high” places..
The word used here is “Epouranios” means-existing in heaven or of heavenly origin or nature
Quote (gollamudi @ June 20 2008,05:23) Satan is not bound yet, Rev 12 is still future. IMO
I agree…but they are in “tartarus”Quote (gollamudi @ June 20 2008,06:33) So they can move out and act as demons?
“tartarus”…is not a place…it is a “state of being”…so yes…as was illustrated by Satans answer to God in Job about where he came from…”from wondering about and moving to and fro upon the earth”…Again…notice the etymology of the word demon
demon
1387, from L. dæmon “spirit,” from Gk. daimon (gen. daimonos) “lesser god, guiding spirit, tutelary deity,” (sometimes including souls of the dead), used (with daimonion) in Christian Gk. translations and Vulgate for “god of the heathen” and “unclean spirit.” Jewish authors earlier had employed the Gk. word in this sense, using it to render shedim “lords, idols” in the Septuagint, and Matt. viii.31 has daimones, translated as deofol in O.E., feend or deuil in M.E. The original mythological sense is sometimes written dæmon for purposes of distinction. The Demon of Socrates (1387) was a daimonion, a “divine principle or inward oracle.” His accusers, and later the Church Fathers, however, represented this otherwise. The Demon Star (1895) is Beta Persei (in Ar. Algol “the Demon”) so called because it visibly varies in brightness every three days. Fem. form demoness first attested 1638. Demonic is from 1662; demonize is from 1821.Demons, unclean spirits, fallen angels= all the same thing
Again thats why they believe and shudder
Nick here is a commentarie on 2 Peter 2:4
Verse 4. For if God spared not the angels] The angels were originally placed in a state of probation; some having fallen and some having stood proves this. How long that probation was to last to them, and what was the particular test of their fidelity, we know not; nor indeed do we know what was their sin; nor when nor how they fell. St. Jude says they kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation; which seems to indicate that they got discontented with their lot, and aspired to higher honours, or perhaps to celestial domination. The tradition of their fall is in all countries and in all religions, but the accounts given are various and contradictory; and no wonder, for we have no direct revelation on the subject. They kept not their first estate, and they sinned, is the sum of what we know on the subject; and here curiosity and conjecture are useless.
But cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness] alla seiraiv zofou tartarwsav paredwken eiv krisin tethrhmenouv? But with chains of darkness confining them in Tartarus, delivered them over to be kept to judgment; or, sinking them into Tartarus, delivered them over into custody for punishment, to chains of darkness.
Chains of darkness is a highly poetic expression. Darkness binds them on all hands; and so dense and strong is this darkness that it cannot be broken through; they cannot deliver themselves, nor be delivered by others.
As the word Tartarus is found nowhere else in the New Testament, nor does it appear in the Septuagint, we must have recourse to the Greek writers for its meaning. Mr. Parkhurst, under the word tartarow, has made some good collections from those writers, which I here subjoin.
“The Scholiast on AESCHYLUS, Eumen., says: Pindar relates that Apollo overcame the Python by force; wherefore the earth endeavoured tartarwsai, to cast him into Tartarus. Tzetzes uses the same word, tartarow, for casting or sending into Tartarus; and the compound verb katatartaroun, is found in Apollodourus; in Didymus' Scholia on Homer; in Phurnutus, Deuteronomy Nat, Deor., p. 11, edit. Gale; and in the book peri potamwn, which is extant among the works of Plutarch.
And those whom Apollodourus styles katatartarwqentav, he in the same breath calls rifqentav eiv tartaron, cast into Tartarus. Thus the learned Windet, in Pole's Synopsis. We may then, I think, safely assert that tartarwsav, in St. Peter, means not, as Mede (Works, fol., p. 23) interprets it, to adjudge to, but to cast into, Tartarus; riptein eiv tartaron, as in Homer, cited below. And in order to know what was the precise intention of the apostle by this expression, we must inquire what is the accurate import of the term tartarov. Now, it appears from a passage of Lucian, that by tartarov was meant, in a physical sense, the bounds or verge of this material system; for, addressing himself to erwv, Cupid or Love, he says: su gar ex afanouv kai kecumenhv amorfiav to pan emorfwsav, k. t. l. 'Thou formedst the universe from its confused and chaotic state; and, after separating and dispersing the circumfused chaos, in which, as in one common sepulchre, the whole world lay buried, thou drovest it to the confines or recesses of outer Tartarus – 'Where iron gates and bars of solid brass Keep it in durance irrefrangible, And its return prohibit.' “The ancient Greeks appear to have received, by tradition, an account of the punishment of the 'fallen angels,' and of bad men after death; and their poets did, in conformity I presume with that account, make Tartarus the place where the giants who rebelled against Jupiter, and the souls of the wicked, were confined. 'Here,' saith Hesiod, Theogon., lin. 720, 1, 'the rebellious Titans were bound in penal chains.' tosson enerqÆ upo ghv, oson ouranov estÆ apo gaihv. ison gar tÆ apo ghv ev tartaron heroenta.
'As far beneath the earth as earth from heaven; For such the distance thence to Tartarus.' Which description will very well agree with the proper sense of Tartarus, if we take the earth for the center of the material system, and reckon from our zenith, or the extremity of the heavens that is over our heads. But as the Greeks imagined the earth to be of a boundless depth, so it must not be dissembled that their poets speak of Tartarus as a vast pit or gulf in the bowels of it. Thus Hesiod in the same poem, lin. 119, calls it- tartara tÆ heroenta mucw cqonov euruodeihv? 'Black Tartarus, within earth's spacious womb.' “And Homer, Iliad viii., lin. 13, &c., introduces Jupiter threatening any of the gods who should presume to assist either the Greeks or the Trojans, that he should either come back wounded to heaven, or be sent to Tartarus.
h min elwn riyw ev tartaron herenta, thle malÆ, hci baqiston upo cqonov esti bepeqron, enqa sidhreiai te pulai, kai calkeov oudov, tosson enerqÆ aidew, oson onranov estÆ apo gaihv.
'Or far, O far, from steep Olympus thrown, Low in the deep Tartarean gulf shall groan.
That gulf which iron gates and brazen ground Within the earth inexorably bound; As deep beneath th' infernal center hurl'd, As from that center to the ethereal world.' POPE.
'Where, according to Homer's description, Iliad viii., lin. 480, 1,]- outÆ aughv uperionov helioio terpontÆ, outÆ anemoisi? baquv de te tartarov amoiv.
'No sun e'er gilds the gloomy horrors there, No cheerful gales refresh the lazy air, But murky Tartarus extends around.' POPE.
“Or, in the language of the old Latin poet, (cited by Cicero, Tuscul., lib. i. cap. 15,) Ubi rigida constat crassa caligo inferum.
“On the whole, then, tartaroun, in St. Peter, is the same as riptein ev tartaron, to throw into Tartarus, in Homer, only rectifying the poet's mistake of Tartarus being in the bowels of the earth, and recurring to the original sense of that word above explained, which when applied to spirits must be interpreted spiritually; and thus tartarwsav will import that God cast the apostate angels out of his presence into that zofov tou skotouv, blackness of darkness, (ver. 17; Jude 13,) where they will be for ever banished from the light of his countenance, and from the beatifying influence of the ever blessed Three, as truly as a person plunged into the torpid boundary of this created system would be from the light of the sun and the benign operations of the material heavens.
So you see “tartarus” which is the word used in 2 Peter 2:4…is not a literal place…but a state of being
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 20 2008,07:52) Quote (gollamudi @ June 20 2008,06:33) So they can move out and act as demons?
“tartarus”…is not a place…it is a “state of being”…so yes…as was illustrated by Satans answer to God in Job about where he came from…”from wondering about and moving to and fro upon the earth”…Again…notice the etymology of the word demon
demon
1387, from L. dæmon “spirit,” from Gk. daimon (gen. daimonos) “lesser god, guiding spirit, tutelary deity,” (sometimes including souls of the dead), used (with daimonion) in Christian Gk. translations and Vulgate for “god of the heathen” and “unclean spirit.” Jewish authors earlier had employed the Gk. word in this sense, using it to render shedim “lords, idols” in the Septuagint, and Matt. viii.31 has daimones, translated as deofol in O.E., feend or deuil in M.E. The original mythological sense is sometimes written dæmon for purposes of distinction. The Demon of Socrates (1387) was a daimonion, a “divine principle or inward oracle.” His accusers, and later the Church Fathers, however, represented this otherwise. The Demon Star (1895) is Beta Persei (in Ar. Algol “the Demon”) so called because it visibly varies in brightness every three days. Fem. form demoness first attested 1638. Demonic is from 1662; demonize is from 1821.Demons, unclean spirits, fallen angels= all the same thing
Again thats why they believe and shudder
Hi DK,
Satan was never chained like the other angels.
He has ever been allowed to wander between earth and heaven.
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