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Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 18 2011,22:36) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 18 2011,11:05) Princess this is to Christ to answer,not to men ;
1) first you have to believe in him and the word of God his father
2) you have to follow him in what he said
3) you have to have faith in him and what he has said
4) you have to love his father,and trust him ,who is his God and ours
5) you have to obey him and his God but in love not in fear,
6) live a live to serve God and not yourself
7) providing you do all the above you would be now free in Christ and now become a true Christian in maturity,Pierre
Hi Pierre,
You said that “2) you have to follow him in what he said, and obey him .”Jesus said that you had to “sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.”
Have you sold everything that you have yet?
He also said “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.”
Do you hate all those people?
Of course you must become a cannibal “Jesus said to them, I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”
Even symbolically I find that disgusting.
If you obey him you must also obey all the laws of the old testament in spite of what the preachers may tell you.
Jesus said that not until the earth comes to an end will one jot of the laws be done away with.So you must be willing to kill homosexuals, kids who talk back to you, prostitutes and people who work on the Sabbath.
Boy, I feel sorry for all the Wall Mart employees.According to you, “providing you do all the above you would be now free in Christ and now become a true Christian in maturity,”
Tim
Quote Of course you must become a cannibal “Jesus said to them, I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.” Even symbolically I find that disgusting.
Symbolically it only means become a part of me it is in no way disgusting but many heard it sound like you did and turned away.
Have you ever said to a woman “I'm crazy about you” or “I can't believe you said that”?
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 18 2011,19:53) Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Dec. 18 2011,09:53) I asked this question once before in a different way. I asked, “Is there anything that Christians all agree on?” The fact of the matter is that there as many versions of Christianity as there are Christians.
There is one truth and that truth is not Christianity.
It is Christ.Christianity comprises all the opinions and views about the teachings of Jesus Christ and not all of them are right.
Similarly in Science there are varying opinions and views on just about every subject. I mean you could take out the word Christianity in your post and replace it with Science and it would be equably applicable.
A person who tries to tell you that Christianity is the truth is like the person who says that Science is the truth.
T8,If what you believe is Christ is the Truth and not Christianity then why do you seperate those who believe in Christ you call believers those who proclaim some sort of CHRISTIANITY in whatever form you said I wasn't a believer although I and every MUSLIM must know Jesus as THE CHRIST/MESSIAH
And as far as how ones perception may be about CHRIST there would be no difference if one person thinks one thing about Christ as opposed to another but you have upheld the Christian view as the only valid belief even when it conflicts with your own belief therefore you do believe in Christianity because no matter the variations of Christian belief you call and accept ALL of them as believers even though some of those views are downright blasphemous, there is not one self proclaimed Christian that you have placed in the sceptics section
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 18 2011,19:45) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 18 2011,13:24) Christianity is a hodgepodge of ideas about Jesus Christ
In fact all religions are a hodgepodge of ideas about Jesus Christ. Islam says this, Moonies, say that, Catholics say this, JWs say that. I personally do not hold any of them in high or medium esteem.What matters is not what men say, but what Jesus said about himself. I mean, if Jesus claimed this or that, then that is likely the truth if you indeed accept that he was from God.
But if you do not listen to what he said, then you really do not believe in Jesus. And if you make Jesus into a product of your own understanding, then you believe in someone else who you just happen to call Jesus. Another Jesus as scripture says and not the one that we should receive.
T8,You're running from the issue because you're making the CHRISTIAN bible your only rule of thumb of acceptance and you have no reason to discredit the Quran and what it says about Jesus. Your entire bible is a collection of books written in different times by different and often unknown authors, this is a fact but you assume that if some book is not a part of this collection of books it can't contain valid information following that logic the first 100 or so years after Christ would be invalid because there was no Bible at all it's not like any of the NT was written immediately upon the ascension of Jesus
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 19 2011,09:37) Have you ever said to a woman “I'm crazy about you” or “I can't believe you said that”?
Yes, I have said “I can't believe you said that”, and meant every word of it.Even thouigh I don't agree with much of what you say BOD.
I appreciate your kind, patient replies.Tim
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Dec. 19 2011,02:59) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 18 2011,14:52)
There is a foundation to the faith which is spelled out in scripture in a number of places. This foundation is absolute. Everything else is a variable.
Name one absolute truth from Christianity that is unique to Christianity. (In other words, belief in God doesn't qualify because there lots of religions that believe in God.)Just one!
John 3:16
King James Version (KJV)
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 19 2011,16:37) Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 18 2011,22:36) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 18 2011,11:05) Princess this is to Christ to answer,not to men ;
1) first you have to believe in him and the word of God his father
2) you have to follow him in what he said
3) you have to have faith in him and what he has said
4) you have to love his father,and trust him ,who is his God and ours
5) you have to obey him and his God but in love not in fear,
6) live a live to serve God and not yourself
7) providing you do all the above you would be now free in Christ and now become a true Christian in maturity,Pierre
Hi Pierre,
You said that “2) you have to follow him in what he said, and obey him .”Jesus said that you had to “sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.”
Have you sold everything that you have yet?
He also said “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.”
Do you hate all those people?
Of course you must become a cannibal “Jesus said to them, I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”
Even symbolically I find that disgusting.
If you obey him you must also obey all the laws of the old testament in spite of what the preachers may tell you.
Jesus said that not until the earth comes to an end will one jot of the laws be done away with.So you must be willing to kill homosexuals, kids who talk back to you, prostitutes and people who work on the Sabbath.
Boy, I feel sorry for all the Wall Mart employees.According to you, “providing you do all the above you would be now free in Christ and now become a true Christian in maturity,”
Tim
Quote Of course you must become a cannibal “Jesus said to them, I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.” Even symbolically I find that disgusting.
Symbolically it only means become a part of me it is in no way disgusting but many heard it sound like you did and turned away.
Have you ever said to a woman “I'm crazy about you” or “I can't believe you said that”?
bodwhat I have quoted was what scriptures saying, not what I was saying ,and I am not a saint according to scriptures but only a believer in God and his son,
you do not believe in any ,so we never agree to anything right,
Pierre
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 19 2011,16:37) Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 18 2011,22:36) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 18 2011,11:05) Princess this is to Christ to answer,not to men ;
1) first you have to believe in him and the word of God his father
2) you have to follow him in what he said
3) you have to have faith in him and what he has said
4) you have to love his father,and trust him ,who is his God and ours
5) you have to obey him and his God but in love not in fear,
6) live a live to serve God and not yourself
7) providing you do all the above you would be now free in Christ and now become a true Christian in maturity,Pierre
Hi Pierre,
You said that “2) you have to follow him in what he said, and obey him .”Jesus said that you had to “sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.”
Have you sold everything that you have yet?
He also said “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.”
Do you hate all those people?
Of course you must become a cannibal “Jesus said to them, I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”
Even symbolically I find that disgusting.
If you obey him you must also obey all the laws of the old testament in spite of what the preachers may tell you.
Jesus said that not until the earth comes to an end will one jot of the laws be done away with.So you must be willing to kill homosexuals, kids who talk back to you, prostitutes and people who work on the Sabbath.
Boy, I feel sorry for all the Wall Mart employees.According to you, “providing you do all the above you would be now free in Christ and now become a true Christian in maturity,”
Tim
Quote Of course you must become a cannibal “Jesus said to them, I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.” Even symbolically I find that disgusting.
Symbolically it only means become a part of me it is in no way disgusting but many heard it sound like you did and turned away.
Have you ever said to a woman “I'm crazy about you” or “I can't believe you said that”?
bodwhere i come from ;some popular thought is that homosexuals are ok, they show love ,and ……..
well this I can not support this would be insanity to me if i would,
but some can and are ok with smoking drugs, heroin, cocaine,and what not ,this also is to me insanity ,
some feel that greed is a good thing and so make it there way of live and become sociopaths,this is also insanity to me ,
but some like it and feel ok with it ,even do they never will benefit of it ,
you guys are in the unbelievers section;this remind me of Socrates parable of the CAVE,i do not know if you ever read it but if not you should ,you are the guys that are chained to the wall,
Pierre
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Dec. 19 2011,05:59) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 18 2011,14:52)
There is a foundation to the faith which is spelled out in scripture in a number of places. This foundation is absolute. Everything else is a variable.
Name one absolute truth from Christianity that is unique to Christianity. (In other words, belief in God doesn't qualify because there lots of religions that believe in God.)Just one!
Like I said, Christianity is the interpretation of Christ and nowhere in scripture are we told of a thing called Christianity.But what is unique to Jesus Christ's teachings and those that believe in Jesus Christ is that Jesus Christ is the messiah and son of God.
Further, he existed with divine nature, emptied himself, partook of flesh, humbled himself, died for our sins, was resurrected, and is now seated at the right hand of God in the glory that he had with God before the world was created.
It boils down to who Jesus is and the work he accomplished for us.
Some religions will acknowledge part of that, in order to then put some spin on it that is not true. In other words, some religions use truth as bait, only to hook you in to their system.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 19 2011,09:44) If what you believe is Christ is the Truth and not Christianity then why do you seperate those who believe in Christ you call believers those who proclaim some sort of CHRISTIANITY in whatever form you said I wasn't a believer although I and every MUSLIM must know Jesus as THE CHRIST/MESSIAH Bod, so long as a person believes the essentials, then they are a believer.
According to scripture, it is the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ is as an Antichrist. Because they believe the anti of who Jesus is. Then it says that they deny the Father and the Son.
So you believe that Jesus is the messiah, and at the same time deny the son, which means you deny the Father.
It also says that many will come saying that Jesus is the Christ and yet will deceive many. Acknowledging that Jesus is the messiah alone is not what constitutes a believer obviously. Satan is subtle and will tell the truth sometimes if it means that he can sell a lie.
And the Muslim idea of Jesus as the messiah is that he failed to fully save because he died, whereas scripture says that it was the fact that he died that saves us. Your idea of Jesus as the messiah is also dubious. So it is debatable that you truly believe that he is even the messiah because your idea that he failed to fully secure salvation and thus another was needed is against the very grain of scripture.
Quote (princess @ Dec. 18 2011,08:18) What is the definition of a christian and does this definition match christianity of today?
Just wanted to share this from a book I'm reading. I thought it was good.THE LAMENT OF A BELIEVER IN EXILE
John Selby SprongAh, Jesus!
Where have you gone?
When did we lose you?
Was it when we became so certain that we possessed you?
That we persecuted Jews,
Excommunicated doubters,
Burned heretics,
And used violence and war to achieve conversion?…Was it when we watched your followers distorting people
With guilt,
Fear,
Bigotry,
Intolerance,
And anger?
Was it when we noticed that many who called you Lord
And who read their Bibles regularly
Also practised slavery,
Defended segregation,
Approved lynching,
Abused children,
Diminished woman,
And hated homosexuals?…We still yearn for you, Jesus, but we no longer know where
To seek your presence.
Do we look for you in those churches that practice certainty?
Or are you hiding in those churches
That so fear controversy that they make “unity” a god,
And stand for so little that they die of boredom?
Can you ever be found in those churches that have
Rejected the powerless and the marginalised,
The lepers and the Samaritans of our day,
Those you called our brothers and sisters?
Or must we look for you outside ecclesiastical settings,
Where love and kindness expect no reward,
Where questions are viewed as the deepest
Expressions of trust?Is it even possible, Jesus, that we Christians are the villians
Who killed you?
Smothering you underneath literal Bibles,
Dated creeds,
Irrelevant doctrines,
And dying structures?
If these things are the source of your dissapearance, Jesus,
Will you then reemerge if these things are removed?
Will that bring resurrection?…I still seek to possess what I believe you are, Jesus:
Access to and embodiment of
The source of life,
The source of love,
The ground of being,
A doorway into the mystery of holiness.It is through that doorway that I desire to walk.
Will you meet me there?
Will you challenge me,
Guide me,
Confront me,
Reveal your truth to me?Finally, at the end of this journey, Jesus,
Will you embrace me?Quote (t8 @ Dec. 20 2011,02:36) Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Dec. 19 2011,05:59) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 18 2011,14:52)
There is a foundation to the faith which is spelled out in scripture in a number of places. This foundation is absolute. Everything else is a variable.
Name one absolute truth from Christianity that is unique to Christianity. (In other words, belief in God doesn't qualify because there lots of religions that believe in God.)Just one!
Like I said, Christianity is the interpretation of Christ and nowhere in scripture are we told of a thing called Christianity.But what is unique to Jesus Christ's teachings and those that believe in Jesus Christ is that Jesus Christ is the messiah and son of God.
Further, he existed with divine nature, emptied himself, partook of flesh, humbled himself, died for our sins, was resurrected, and is now seated at the right hand of God in the glory that he had with God before the world was created.
It boils down to who Jesus is and the work he accomplished for us.
Some religions will acknowledge part of that, in order to then put some spin on it that is not true. In other words, some religions use truth as bait, only to hook you in to their system.
Take a look at the Trinity thread and tell me if Christians on this site agree with what you just wrote.Son of God? In what way? Literal?
Messiah? In what way?
Pre-existed with divine nature?
Ask different Christians on this site and you will get different answers.
hi all
this is the only way to God;;Jn 3:21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”
so if your live is in harmony with the truth of God you are saved,IF NOT I GUESS YOUR NOT;;;;;;;;;;
THIS HARMONY WILL ONLY BE POSSIBLE IF OUR LOVE FOR GOD IS FROM OUR HEART AND IS FIRST IN OUR LIVE,
Pierre
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 04 2012,03:41) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 20 2011,02:36) Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Dec. 19 2011,05:59) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 18 2011,14:52)
There is a foundation to the faith which is spelled out in scripture in a number of places. This foundation is absolute. Everything else is a variable.
Name one absolute truth from Christianity that is unique to Christianity. (In other words, belief in God doesn't qualify because there lots of religions that believe in God.)Just one!
Like I said, Christianity is the interpretation of Christ and nowhere in scripture are we told of a thing called Christianity.But what is unique to Jesus Christ's teachings and those that believe in Jesus Christ is that Jesus Christ is the messiah and son of God.
Further, he existed with divine nature, emptied himself, partook of flesh, humbled himself, died for our sins, was resurrected, and is now seated at the right hand of God in the glory that he had with God before the world was created.
It boils down to who Jesus is and the work he accomplished for us.
Some religions will acknowledge part of that, in order to then put some spin on it that is not true. In other words, some religions use truth as bait, only to hook you in to their system.
Take a look at the Trinity thread and tell me if Christians on this site agree with what you just wrote.Son of God? In what way? Literal?
Messiah? In what way?
Pre-existed with divine nature?
Ask different Christians on this site and you will get different answers.
My point exactly and any random answer that complies to that formula no matter how far fetched is better in the sight of T8 than simply saying Christ is not the literal son of God because God has no actual gender or genitals which to procreate with and God has no mate, to say that God created Jesus is not allowed here you have to believe it seems that God was actually intimate with Mary in some way.WhatIsTrue,
First you have to define “all Christians”. To me people who when asked if they're a Christian answer with “I guess”, are not. Christians by my definition are active followers of Christ, you cannot follow Christ if you don't know anything about Him.For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
There are no end to disagreements on the details of the above scripture. But anyone who could honestly say they are trying to follow Christ would have to embrace the basics in this scripture, otherwise they're not mis-interpreting scripture, they're rejecting it and by definition being a Christian is only possible if you know Him based on scripture, not made up ideas (otherwise you're following your idea of what Christ is).
On the other hand if your define all Christians as being anyone who thinks they might be, then you'll never find agreement on anything.
My opinion – Wm
seekingtruth,
I will make it even easier. I'll limit it to Christians who have been on this site.
Now, what conclusions are you drawing from this passage that Christians agree on?
Jesus is the literal son of God?
Salvation is by faith alone?
Christians will never experience any form of death?Do you see the problem here?
Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 04 2012,07:48) WhatIsTrue,
First you have to define “all Christians”. To me people who when asked if they're a Christian answer with “I guess”, are not. Christians by my definition are active followers of Christ, you cannot follow Christ if you don't know anything about Him.For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
There are no end to disagreements on the details of the above scripture. But anyone who could honestly say they are trying to follow Christ would have to embrace the basics in this scripture, otherwise they're not mis-interpreting scripture, they're rejecting it and by definition being a Christian is only possible if you know Him based on scripture, not made up ideas (otherwise you're following your idea of what Christ is).
On the other hand if your define all Christians as being anyone who thinks they might be, then you'll never find agreement on anything.
My opinion – Wm
How do people get to define Christians other than people who acknowledge that they are in-fact Christians?When a Christian is not doing whatever he supposed to do how could that mean they are no longer Christians wouldn't simply mean they are Christians doing something wrong?
In the letters of Paul he often criticizes the behaviour of certain churches he is visiting but not once does he say “you are no longer Christians”
You may not like it but Catholics, Jehovah's witnesses, Mormons, baptists, pentecostals, non-denominational, Lutheran…etc are all just as much Christian as you are
Only God defines who is a Christian.
What I was pointing out is you have to define what is meant by Christian to answer WIT's question, I made it clear I was giving my opinion. Scripture tells us “disciples were first called Christians in Antioch” Since the Bible is the earliest record of the word Christian and I think most would agree it is the best source for us to define what makes a Christian.
I passed no judgment on any person or denomination I was offering my opinion of what defined Christian. You have read my posts before, you know that I believe that true Christians are spread through-out all denominations and includes some not attending Church at all.
My Opinion – Wm
WIT,
As I said there are no end of arguments on the details of that scripture, far more than the three you listed.Let me ask to all on this site, that consider themselves a Christian, do you agree with this scripture, not with someone else's interpretation, but with the scripture itself.
Thanks – Wm
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