- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Death means that the Spirit cannot takes an active part in anything in heaven or on earth.
This is the spirit that is in man, the same spirit that was in Jesus.
Jesus gave up his spirit to God, as all mankind does when they die. Jesus was no different in this regard.
KJ and WJ are trying to mislead people by claiming that because the spirit cannot die then people are not dead. While this is only a partially true statement, they do not state that the spirit cannot be active but, indeed try to claim that Jesus' spirit was active 'while Jesus was dead in the flesh'. This is plainly rediculous because then all mankind would also be active in the spirit while they are dead in the flesh…does this then not give rise to belief in 'Spiritism', 'Crossing Over', Seances, palmistry, whoodoowoodoo, etc, etc… And these guys say they worship God Almighty?
Quote (JustAskin @ July 28 2010,10:26) And these guys say they worship God Almighty?
Yep, all three of them!
JA, you are so right on this. The spirit goes back to Him who gave it in the first place. If that meant Jesus never fully died because God was able to replace his spirit back into him, then no man ever died, for God will do the same on judgement day for all.
All formerly dead will have to be given back their spirit including their memories, or how else could they understand the judgement they receive based on the things they did?
That last part is my conjecture, but what JA said is right on. If Jesus didn't fully die, then neither did anyone ever.
mike
JustAskin said:
Quote Death means that the Spirit cannot takes an active part in anything in heaven or on earth.
Chapter and verse please. Put up or….!JA:
Quote This is the spirit that is in man, the same spirit that was in Jesus.
After death the spirits of men went to sheol to await the resurrection. Jesus said to the thief, “Today you will be with Me in paradise.” Yet Jesus went to sheol. Therefore, “paradise” was a part of sheol. Sheol was divided into two sections. Paradise is where the righteous went to await the resurrection. The “pit” is where the unrighteous went to await the resurrection.The spirits of unrighteous men also went down to sheol (the pit) ALIVE.
Quote 12 Let us swallow them alive like Sheol,
And whole, like those who go down to the Pit; Prov. 1:12)JA:
Quote KJ and WJ are trying to mislead people by claiming that because the spirit cannot die then people are not dead.
Jesus and Paul were of the Pharisaic school of thought which taught that the spirits of men continued to live on after the death of the flesh. JA is of the Sadduceean school which taught that there was no spirit after death. KJ and WJ side with Jesus and Paul and the Phharisees. JA sides with the Sadducees.the Roo
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 28 2010,10:40) Quote (JustAskin @ July 28 2010,10:26) And these guys say they worship God Almighty?
Yep, all three of them! JA, you are so right on this. The spirit goes back to Him who gave it in the first place. If that meant Jesus never fully died because God was able to replace his spirit back into him, then no man ever died, for God will do the same on judgement day for all.
All formerly dead will have to be given back their spirit including their memories, or how else could they understand the judgement they receive based on the things they did?
That last part is my conjecture, but what JA said is right on. If Jesus didn't fully die, then neither did anyone ever.
mike
No sir! The spirits of men went down to sheol to await the resurrection. Jesus did not go to the Father when He died (in the flesh). He went to sheol.“You will not leave my soul in sheol. Neither will you permit your Holy One to see corruption.”
Jesus did not say that He was going back to the Father. He said, “Into your hands (or your will) I entrust my spirit.” He committed His spirit to the Father's will. This says nothing to where Jesus went. We know that He went to sheol and preached to spirits that were imprisoned there.
Anyway, Mike believes that men are annnihilated after they die. So how could they go to God before the resurrection? And how can those who do not exist be raised?
the Roo
As I understand it, the Sadducees simply didn't believe in a ressurection. Where do you find support for your claim, Jack?
Quote (JustAskin @ July 27 2010,18:26) Death means that the Spirit cannot takes an active part in anything in heaven or on earth.
JAAnd when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? Rev 6:9, 10
So did these souls have flesh bodies in heaven?
Tell it to Paul and James who says to be absent from the Body is to be present with the Lord.
WJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 28 2010,10:57) No sir! The spirits of men went down to sheol to await the resurrection. Jesus did not go to the Father when He died (in the flesh). He went to sheol. “You will not leave my soul in sheol. Neither will you permit your Holy One to see corruption.”
Jesus did not say that He was going back to the Father. He said, “Into your hands (or your will) I entrust my spirit.” He committed His spirit to the Father's will. This says nothing to where Jesus went. We know that He went to sheol and preached to spirits that were imprisoned there.
Anyway, Mike believes that men are annnihilated after they die. So how could they go to God before the resurrection? And how can those who do not exist be raised?
First, your quote says nothing about a spirit going to Sheol. Second, Ecclesiastes 12:7
and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.Add that scripture to Jesus saying “Into your hands I entrust my spirit”, and it's pretty clear.
And third, where do you get this “Mike believes” crap? I have seen you post so many lies about me on HN that it is not even funny. Like I told Martian, the crap you say about me is more of a statement about who YOU are than who I am, Jack.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2010,18:40) All formerly dead will have to be given back their spirit including their memories, or how else could they understand the judgement they receive based on the things they did?
Because they never lost their memories in the first place, DUH!Jesus said…
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:26
You guys simply do not believe the scriptures!
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 28 2010,10:59) As I understand it, the Sadducees simply didn't believe in a ressurection. Where do you find support for your claim, Jack?
Half truth! A half truth is a WHOLE lie! The Sadducees also denied that the spirit continued to exist after death. Their denial of the resurrection was the consequence of their denial that the spirit continued to exist. For that which ceases to exist cannot be raised.In other words, the Sadducees were annihilationists like you and JA. Keith and I are in the company of Jesus and Paul.
the Roo
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2010,11:04) Quote (JustAskin @ July 27 2010,18:26) Death means that the Spirit cannot takes an active part in anything in heaven or on earth.
JAAnd when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? Rev 6:9, 10
So did these souls have flesh bodies in heaven?
Tell it to Paul and James who says to be absent from the Body is to be present with the Lord.
WJ
Hi WJ,Your scripture doesn't say “spirit” either. If you and Jack want to prove a point, start with quotes that actually have the word you're debating in them.
And the bottom line is this: JA is right on this one.
Show from scripture where something different happened when Jesus died than when other men die. Show that other men's spirits did not also go back to their God who gave them, just like Jesus' did.
mike
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 28 2010,11:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 28 2010,10:59) As I understand it, the Sadducees simply didn't believe in a ressurection. Where do you find support for your claim, Jack?
Half truth! A half truth is a WHOLE lie! The Sadducees also denied that the spirit continued to exist after death. Their denial of the resurrection was the consequence of their denial that the spirit continued to exist. For that which ceases to exist cannot be raised.In other words, the Sadducees were annihilationists like you and JA. Keith and I are in the company of Jesus and Paul.
the Roo
Where do you find support for your claim, Jack?
mikeWow Jack,
What is your major malfunction? You lie. You insult constantly. You ridicule others. What in the world is wrong with your person?
I stated something I knew from scriptures, and asked where you learned the other part of it.
For that, you accuse me of “half-truths”? I asked a simple question, how is that a half-truth?
You really need to check yourself man. Your behavior on HN is anything but Christian. I understand you don't like me, but you are like this with everyone here.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2010,19:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2010,11:04) Quote (JustAskin @ July 27 2010,18:26) Death means that the Spirit cannot takes an active part in anything in heaven or on earth.
JAAnd when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? Rev 6:9, 10
So did these souls have flesh bodies in heaven?
Tell it to Paul and James who says to be absent from the Body is to be present with the Lord.
WJ
Hi WJ,Your scripture doesn't say “spirit” either. If you and Jack want to prove a point, start with quotes that actually have the word you're debating in them.
MikeJust cut out many scriptures like you usually do. Whats the difference in the Soul or Spirit, can you tell? Or is it that only the Word of God can separate the two? Heb 4:12
That’s right, you don't believe in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus but make Jesus words of none affect, again.
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Luke 16:22,23
Why would Jesus tell this story this way if he didn't believe what he is saying as truth and parallels reality? Would Jesus tell us a story that is apposed to reality?
WJ
Mikeboll said:
Quote All formerly dead will have to be given back their spirit including their memories, 
A spirit that ceases to exist is gone forever. Therefore, this memory “transfer” would be given to a totally new and different spirit that God would have to create. This newly created spirit would have the memory of my suffering without the history of my suffering. But it is those who ACTUALLY have the history of suffering that God will reward. God could not destroy a man's spirit if He is going to reward it.
Mike's memory transfer idea is ludicrous!
the Roo
WJ and KJ are both fakes.
First they pretend to be trinitarians,now that they utterly failed at that they have become 'Disputarians', simply disputing against everyone for no good reason. Sad, so sad.
Jesus told the theif on the Cross, 'I tell you this day, you will be with me in Paradise'.
What does anyone not understand?
The theif could only be 'in paradise' after he is judged at the resurrection and found 'sinless because Jesus asked God to forgivd his sins because he believed'Jack, where do you come from?
WJ, why are you following Jack. Do you two take it in turns?
WJ, i know not what it is you are showing me in Revelations but this I know: you have turned the verses into foolishness and you will pay a dear price for that. Your foolishness in coming up against me knows no ends, do you really not learn or do you just keep trying, just in case, trying your luck! Keep trying…but i hope you stop.
Speak the truth and i will be your brother.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 28 2010,11:11) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 28 2010,11:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 28 2010,10:59) As I understand it, the Sadducees simply didn't believe in a ressurection. Where do you find support for your claim, Jack?
Half truth! A half truth is a WHOLE lie! The Sadducees also denied that the spirit continued to exist after death. Their denial of the resurrection was the consequence of their denial that the spirit continued to exist. For that which ceases to exist cannot be raised.In other words, the Sadducees were annihilationists like you and JA. Keith and I are in the company of Jesus and Paul.
the Roo
Where do you find support for your claim, Jack?
mike
Mike,Don't you think you should do a little homework before you spout off? Save yourself some embarassment. Read Josephus. He states that the Sadducees held that the spirit perished with the body (Josephus, Ant., xviii, 1, 4; Wars, ii, 8, 14).
Their denial of the resurrection was the consequence of their denial that the spirit continued to remain. They deduced that something that does remain cannot be resurrected.
Duh! You should have googled “Sadducees” and made sure before embarrassing yourself. You don't because you are not looking for the truth.
the Roo
Jack, who says the spirit ceases to exists…where are you claiming someone said that..only asking.
The Spirit does not cease to exist until it is destroyed by God as being from the wicked soul after the judgement.
Moreover, how will it be destroyed? How is a spirit destroyed, certainly not in an 'everlasting fire'. How is spirit harmed by fire? This is a spiritual fire…it means the destruction of 'energy', of 'force'. What is 'Fire' but the destruction of an entity by releasing the power and energy within it as heat and light. So will also the spirit be destroyed by the energy holding it together being ripped out never to be recombined. Everlasting destruction.
All of everything, seen and unseen, is energy. All physical entities are composed of energy. All matter is highly compressed energy, everything is compressed energy. Highly compressed energy turns into physical matter and destruction of physical matter produces huge amounts of energy. Spirits are energy forces and God and only God can destroy that energy force because He created it. This is why the wicked angels could only create physical bodies and put their own spirit into it, whereas God could put a created and independent spirit into a created body.
Do you guys, WJ and KJ, think, see, view, learn, live, believe, …on a Spiritual level?
Quote (JustAskin @ July 28 2010,11:27) WJ and KJ are both fakes. First they pretend to be trinitarians,now that they utterly failed at that they have become 'Disputarians', simply disputing against everyone for no good reason. Sad, so sad.
Jesus told the theif on the Cross, 'I tell you this day, you will be with me in Paradise'.
What does anyone not understand?
The theif could only be 'in paradise' after he is judged at the resurrection and found 'sinless because Jesus asked God to forgivd his sins because he believed'Jack, where do you come from?
WJ, why are you following Jack. Do you two take it in turns?
WJ, i know not what it is you are showing me in Revelations but this I know: you have turned the verses into foolishness and you will pay a dear price for that. Your foolishness in coming up against me knows no ends, do you really not learn or do you just keep trying, just in case, trying your luck! Keep trying…but i hope you stop.
Speak the truth and i will be your brother.
JA,The soul (or spirit) of Jesus went to sheol.
“You will not leave my soul in sheol. Neither will you permit Your Holy One to see corruption.”
He preached to imprisoned spirits while He was there. God raised His soul up from sheol.
What about this do you not understand?
JA:
Quote The theif could only be 'in paradise' after he is judged at the resurrection and found 'sinless because Jesus asked God to forgivd his sins because he believed'
Nope! Jesus said, “TODAY you will be with me in paradise.” You and Mike don't like the word “today” too much. Mike denies it in reference to Jesus being begotten at His resurrection. Now you deny the plain meaning of “today” in reference to Jesus and the thief going to paradise (waiting place in sheol for the righteous spirits).You misspelled “thief.”
KJ
Good night!
Mike, Rebuttal# 8 will come in a couple of days. That last one wore me out so I am taking a break.
Jack
Quote (JustAskin @ July 27 2010,19:27) WJ and KJ are both fakes. First they pretend to be trinitarians,now that they utterly failed at that they have become 'Disputarians', simply disputing against everyone for no good reason. Sad, so sad.
Jesus told the theif on the Cross, 'I tell you this day, you will be with me in Paradise'.
What does anyone not understand?
The theif could only be 'in paradise' after he is judged at the resurrection and found 'sinless because Jesus asked God to forgivd his sins because he believed'Jack, where do you come from?
WJ, why are you following Jack. Do you two take it in turns?
WJ, i know not what it is you are showing me in Revelations but this I know: you have turned the verses into foolishness and you will pay a dear price for that. Your foolishness in coming up against me knows no ends, do you really not learn or do you just keep trying, just in case, trying your luck! Keep trying…but i hope you stop.
Speak the truth and i will be your brother.
JAWhy do you just spout off at the mouth rather than give scriptural support for your eroneous concepts?
All you know how to do is call names and accusations and babyish slurs.
Jack and I are dealing with what the scritpures say and not merely making claims based on the doctrines of men without any spiritual revelation or truth.
WJ
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
