Death and the Final Judgement

[DocHolliday52]

I love listening to preaching !!! There are so many questions that run wild in my head. Take for example the subject of death. I have read in the bible that Jesus will raise the dead and take the believers with Him and they will not experience death (I believe this can be found in Revelations). My thinking is once we die, our spirits heal and we stay until the Final Judgement. This would feel like it was happening simutaniously. Another theory is the idea that we might begin to live another existance on a different plain. If you have ever heard an EVP that is undeniably a voice, then perhaps you might share my theory. The only thing I can remember reading about this is the bible was “yes”, spirits are all around us, but “no”, we should not try to communicate with them as they are evil (or something like that). I had a pastor tell me not to communicate with them as bad things can happen (posessed). Also, the way I read it, satan and his angels are here with us right now and they will receive their punishment on judgement day. They are not even in hell right now. These are just a couple of theories I have and it is based on what I have been taught and from the bible. If I am not understanding then please help me see the error, seriously.

[bornagainjdpaul1x3]

Hi DocHolliday. Your question/s seems honest and sincere enough but misguided. At least you readily admit that much of your views, understanding and comprehension of spiritual realities at present are in your own words “theories” that “run wild in your head”. I would want to encourage you to become an earnest seeker after an inward witness from the Lord Jesus Christ in your heart as to what He wants to reveal to you of Himself as your Light and Life.

The Truth is a Person: the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, in whom all those He is forming and making into His likeness as His disciples; redeemed ones, born again ones, brethren, are assured of light for their path in this pilgrimage through time into eternal life.

Knowing God in a loving, living and truly spiritually alive manner is something only the Lord Jesus Christ Himself brings us into. Certainly listening to preaching can be very useful in aiding our coming to know God in this manner. But there is so much preaching today that only amounts to academic, mental, even sensual exercises between the speaker/preacher and the hearers that it is quite sad.

God is a spirit (John 4: 24) a spiritual Being and We do not come to know the Truth through academic/mental exercises in the first instance nor the last. The people in our lives; family, friends, work mates, etc are not just persons we know of in an academic, theoretical manner. The same goes for God.Until we know Him intimately for ourselves all 'preaching' we listen to is academic. The Holy Spirit is the life-giving and quickening Spirit of Truth who brings/guides believers into all Truth. In reality that means we are brought into more intimate, personal, experimental and experiential knowing of Jesus Christ who is the Truth incarnate/embodied in humanity. If you are prepared and willing to go beyond loving “listening to preaching” and pursue a personal relationship with Jesus Christ Himself He will definitely reveal Himself to you. I can assure you based on the Lord's own promise to all who earnestly seek Him, that you will receive Him all the essential daily Light that you need for your path.

I'm sorry to have to say this but your questions expose a preoccupation with non-essentials. I pray you will receive this admonition is the spirit of concern and goodwill for your spiritual well-being in which it is truly intended.

[seekingtruth]

bornagainjdpaul1x3,
A good admonition, as it should be with a newer believer. We all started off unsure but God was patient with us as we should be patient with others, after all there is much to learn, I've been at it for over 30 years, actively seeking, but have only scratched the surface on what there is to know. Welcome, hope you stick around,

Wm

[seekingtruth]

DocHolliday52,
Read scriptures is the best advise I can give, it is the whole of scripture that is your safeguard. You can make the Bible say whatever you want by cherry picking certain verses but if your interpretation of a verse causes a conflict with another then you need to re-examine your interpretation. Keep a log of your beliefs and you'll be amazed at where they go as you study scripture with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. May God bless you in your search.

Wm

[mikeboll64]

Quote (DocHolliday52 @ May 30 2012,23:02)

I have read in the bible that Jesus will raise the dead and take the believers with Him and they will not experience death (I believe this can be found in Revelations).

What's up Doc?  

Jesus taught that all will not taste death (Matthew 16:28).  Paul taught the same thing (1 Corinthians 15:51).

My understanding is that a few, who have been put to death for the for the word of God and the testimony of Jesus, do not “taste death”, but are taken by God directly to heaven.  I believe these are represented as “the souls under the altar” in Revelation 6:9-11.

The rest (the majority of us) will “taste death”, which to me means our spirit goes back to Him who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7), and we are then conscious of nothing at all (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

But I agree with you that, to those who die, being raised will seem spontaneous, as if you closed your eyes one second, and opened them to the judgment the very next.

In real time though, we will be asleep many years, undisturbed for the most part – although it is clear from 1 Samuel 28 that one who is asleep can be awakened through a medium using a dark spirit.

So yes, those spirits are all around us, waiting for any opportunity to trip us up.  God Himself warns against contacting them in Leviticus 19:31 and elsewhere, so your pastor gave you good advice about that.

I hope these scriptures will help you with your understanding, Doc.

peace,
mike

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
When your spirit returns to God YOU do not.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
You are not a spirit but a LIVING SOUL.

[mikeboll64]

Nick,

Can you tell us what either of your posts have to do with what I posted?  Can you point out for me where I've not spoken according to scripture? And finally, do you have any scriptural teachings to share with Doc on the subject he brought up?

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 17 2012,13:54)

Hi MB, When your spirit returns to God YOU do not.

N

give me scriptures

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 17 2012,13:55)

Hi MB, You are not a spirit but a LIVING SOUL.

N

scriptures please

[942767]

Hi DocHoliday52:

There are those who are Christians who died a physical death, and there are those Christians who will be alive when the Lord returns for the church.

In the event called the rapture when the Lord comes for those who are saved, those who have died a physical death who are saved will be raised from the dead with a spiritual body, and those who are saved who are alive when the Lord comes will be translated without dieing a physical death, they will have the same spiritual body as those who have been raised from the dead. They will both be caught up to meet the Lord in the air, and will be with him forever more.

Here are some scriptures for you to read:

Quote

1Cr 15:50 ¶ Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1Cr 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. 1Cr 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Quote

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(Those who are saved and had died a physical death are those which sleep in Jesus) 1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Those who have died in their sins will be raised from the dead to be judged according to thier works after a thousand years from the event called the rapture. Those who are not saved and are alive when the Lord comes for the church will be judged by the seven last plagues.

I hope that this helps you to understand. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. I will do my best to answer them.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Ed J]

Hi Marty,

There is no event called 'rapture'?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[942767]

Quote (Ed J @ June 17 2012,11:58)

Hi Marty, There is no event called 'rapture'? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed:

The event described by the following scriptures is commonly called the rapture. If your argument is that there is no term “rapture” in the bible, I agree with you.

Quote

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Ed J]

Hi Marty,

The verse explains were the dead are; did you not know that?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[942767]

Quote (Ed J @ June 17 2012,13:21)

Hi Marty, The verse explains were the dead are; did you not know that? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

I'm listening.

[Ed J]

Quote (942767 @ June 17 2012,13:30)

Quote (Ed J @ June 17 2012,13:21) Hi Marty, The verse explains were the dead are; did you not know that? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org I'm listening.

“But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep,
that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died
and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.” (1 Thess 4:13-14)

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ June 17 2012,13:40)

Quote (942767 @ June 17 2012,13:30) Quote (Ed J @ June 17 2012,13:21) Hi Marty, The verse explains were the dead are; did you not know that? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org I'm listening. “But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.” (1 Thess 4:13-14)

“Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses” (Heb 12:1)

[942767]

Ed:

I am not sure that I am understanding what you are trying to teach me. As I understand these scriptures, the dead in Christ, are considered to be asleep awaiting the resurrection.

In raising Lazarus from the dead, Jesus taught:

Quote

Jhn 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: Jhn 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ June 17 2012,20:40)

Quote (942767 @ June 17 2012,13:30) Quote (Ed J @ June 17 2012,13:21) Hi Marty, The verse explains were the dead are; did you not know that? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org I'm listening. “But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.” (1 Thess 4:13-14)

edj

“But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep,
that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died
and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.” (1 Thess 4:13-14)

by only quoting this scriptures ,you leave many lose ends

[bornagainjdpaul1x3]

@ speaking truth,

thanks for the welcome. Question though, how is it that you conclude that DocHoliday is a 'new believer' as opposed to one who has been in the faith for some years but unfortunately has been exposed for the most part to ministry and doctrine that, whilst well-meaning and good intentioned, is flawed and misleading?

@DocHoliday
Seekingtruth has given me cause to reflect further on your post and I want to repeat that I do believe your questions are honest and sincere. Would you be willing to share with me further about your journey with the Lord/your personal testimony thus far? It can but need not be in this forum if you prefer a less public place. I believe your email information remains private if you email me directly.
My submission June 16th response to your questions was intended to be forthright and provocative but I' hopeful that it has been so in an entirely inspiring and helpful manner. God bless you and I look forward to hearing from you.

Here's a bit more about my own personal journey with the Lord to give you all some better sense of my spiritual journey thus far. I came to saving knowledge in Christ around age 17. I was an active member in a local Pentecostal church for about 15 years over which time I learnt a whole lot about busy-ness 'for' and 'in the name of the Lord' and relatively very little about BEING in the Lord. I'm quite certain that influences a lot of my concern for other disciples of of our Lord; even if not always well expressed, to see them grounded in sound doctrine and BEING/Be-coming Christlike.

Presently I'm fellowshipping in both a house church setting and a more formal/organized institutional type of gathering with fellow believers. I'm earnestly seeking in either format to simply be a joint of supply of what my years of learning from and loving the Lord have made me. I have every confidence that those with whom I gather will be doing the same for and to me; which is – being joints of supply into my life and spirit of what their years of learning and loving the Lord has made and is making them.

Indeed what a blessed thing for us all if it is Christ Himself in spirit and in truth that we are generously and lovingly supplying and lavishing upon one another! Oh but what a blight, a curse if we are suppliers of the leaven of the scribes and pharisees. May the Lord Himself preserve us all from such a blighted and blind existence. Such an existence is all too often in evidence today among many professing believers and we do well today to bear in mind our Lord's own words of warning and caution:

“The eye is the lamp of the body. So if your eye is sound, your entire body will be full of light.

But if your eye is unsound, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the very light in you [your [r]conscience] is darkened, how dense is that darkness!” (Mathew 6:22-23 The Amplified Bible).

May the Father give us all an increasingly more accurate and clearer comprehension of Christ Himself in and through who we all become joints of supply to each other of His love, patience, grace and every good gift.

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