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Hi Stuart,
A-N-D… what exactly is this video suppose to prove?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
PS. I watched in the other thread you posted it in.Hi Ed,
It was actually David that brought up the video, not stu.And I think David was practicing a little reverse psychology by cautioning no one else except Tim watch the video.
That almost insured that other people would.Tim
Quote (TimothyVI @ Nov. 25 2012,07:04) David,
Thanks for that video. I did enjoy it.My first wife was diagnosed with MS at the young age of 32.
By the age of 36 she was quadriplegic, blind, on a respirator and unable to do anything for herself. I fed her, bathed her medicated her and cared for her every need.I prayed daily for God to ease her pain. I prayed daily for God to intervene in the slightest way, but He never did. So I thought that it was my fault. My faith was not strong enough.
I wouldn't abandon her to a nursing facility because I didn't want for her to lose what little hope that she had.
Watching her waste away the way that she did was devastating to my children who were only 9 and 10 years old at the time. My girl who is now a grown woman is doing well today, but no longer believes in a god. My son fell into drugs and alcohol and I haven't seen him in over twenty years. I think he may still be alive. Needless to say I felt very much like Job must have felt in the bible.The reason for this long story is that as a last resort, since the doctors were unable to help, and God wouldn't, I took her to a faith healer that was visiting our city. I rolled her into the arena in a reclining wheelchair with a portable respirator so she could breath. Ernest Angley was this faith healers name. I put all of my hope in this man, that maybe God would listen to him, even if he ignored me. I truly believed that God was healing these people through this faith healer.
I prayed fervently with Mr. Angley for my wife's healing, and gave money that I couldn't afford to his ministry which I sorely needed to pay for existing health care expenses.
Desperation can make a person very gullible.
Three months later my wife died in my home. I forgave God, and actually remained a Christian for many years after, but I never forgave Ernest Angley.Until this day I curse these greedy leaches that build up false hope for money. I would love to do what this man in the video did to expose them.
Tim
david, sorry to diverge from the topic momentarily.But this is for TimothyVI.
Like yourself, I am no stranger to tragedy. My mother died when I was quite young and my younger brother also died when he was young. Prior to that, my life growing up literally sucked to put it mildly due to my father. Once my mother died, I had no home either as my dad wasn't interested in me and neither did I want to live in the same house as him.
I was also an Atheist during that first part of my life and actually was very cynical about religion. I even converted a Catholic friend to Atheism. I use to argue with Christians about their faith and try to get them to renounce God because I thought it was just ridiculous to believe in God.
Being the Skeptic, I decided to actually test to see if God was real. I read a book that got me thinking and then I decided to actually follow through with being saved to see what would happen. I honestly did not think I could last 2 weeks without serious sinning, but I gave it a crack anyway. What the hell, that was my attitude at the time.
I was sure that I was going to find that God was not real at all, and then once I confirmed this, I would be all the more hateful of religion as I was especially with Christians. They just annoyed the hell out of me.
Unlike yourself and to my surprise God actually did speak to me. To explain all that happened would take way too long, but I could share some stuff over time. Suffice to say that it is actually hard for others to believe some of the things I experienced, so I am usually reserved about sharing this stuff.
At first even after all these amazing things happened to me, I still put it in the realm of probability and coincidence initially. But these things didn't stop and I had to concede that there was definitely a God. However, I was a little upset about that because I actually enjoyed my sinful life and truly didn't want to give it up.
However, after thinking about eternity versus a season of sinning, I was at least smart enough to make the decision that was best for my eternal welfare, so to my surprise I managed to stick with living the life expected of me, and when I did fall, God was faithful to forgive me.
After a period of what I can only describe as a temptation after temptation, I had an amazing experience that removed any doubt that I could possibly have about God. Even with little to no understanding of the Bible, I had the exact vision that John had of Paradise and the River of Life (and only found this out later on). A short time later, I got to experience what it was like to be completely cut off from God too.
Both these experiences changed my life. You can read them here:
http://www.heaven.net.nz/visions/heaven-hell.htmSo why do I get all this proof and you get nothing?
Jesus said to doubting Thomas, “you believe because you have seen, but blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed”.
So to not see anything and yet still have faith is a stronger faith than a man who believes because he has seen.
I had a friend who never heard from God and was upset that God did all this stuff for me and nothing for him. So he prayed and prayed about it and finally God spoke to him in a dream. He said to him that God had shown me these things for a reason that was not his to know and that he had chosen him to learn through the experiences of life. My friend was just so stoked that God actually spoke to him perhaps more so than the message he got.
So what about these disheartening experiences you have gone through. Well I like that scripture that says, “You cannot compare this present suffering to the eternal glory that awaits us”. And, “eye has not seen, and ear has not heard of the good things that await those who love God”.
Trust me these are true sayings, I have seen them first hand and you do not want to give these up.
And why has my life been so great? It hasn't. After receiving these visions I was baptized in fire. I had to endure some things that were so terrible to my soul that I wished that God would end my life. I passed through the darkest tunnel you can imagine. Think of Job and then you have a picture of what I went through. But after a decade of that, the light shone again and brighter than I could have imagined.
My advice to you is to not give up your faith, but to return. If you could see the prize and how amazing it is, you would realise that all the sufferings we go through are temporary and that there is an eternal prize that awaits us.
And in the scheme of things, this present suffering is not even 1 second compared to eternity.
Romans 8:18
I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.And think about the suffering of others. How many are in prison for their faith and didn't give up. Some were fed to lions and tortured for what they believed. And they didn't give up. Whole families were killed by wild animals in the Colosseum and still they didn't renounce God. Suffering is part of what makes us who we are. It is only for a season and why not just choose to be strong and hang in there. In hindsight if you knew what was waiting, you would gladly endure.
Hi Tim and T8,
Thank you both for sharing a brief history of your life!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote Like yourself, I am no stranger to tragedy. My mother died when I was quite young and my younger brother also died when he was young. Prior to that, my life growing up literally sucked to put it mildly due to my father. Once my mother died, I had no home either as my dad wasn't interested in me and neither did I want to live in the same house as him. I was also an Atheist during that first part of my life and actually was very cynical about religion. I even converted a Catholic friend to Atheism. I use to argue with Christians about their faith and try to get them to renounce God because I thought it was just ridiculous to believe in God.
–t8
No loving father to comfort you, or for you to look to for support and guidance, that you no doubt wanted so badly. And you were an atheist, brought up not believing in a Heavenly Father.
This very much reminds me of the atheist in the video posted on the last page, who only needed the right feelings and ideas to come together to suddenly realize God exists.
t8, or anyone, in your visions of heaven page, the first image, I'm almost certain it is a picture of Butchart Gardens in Victoria, BC, Canada. Is a spectacular garden and if anyone is in BC, they have to go there.
Quote (david @ Nov. 29 2012,12:51) This very much reminds me of the atheist in the video posted on the last page, who only needed the right feelings and ideas to come together to suddenly realize God exists.
Did the person in the video say that she thought a god existed?Rather, it was demonstrated that she could be induced by emotional manipulation to have the kind of experience that others attribute to something they call god, based on no evidence of that extra conclusion whatever.
And don't forget that t8 has just repeated the abominable claim that there is greater virtue in believing without evidence than believing with it.
There is no unambiguous evidence for any god claim whatever, and there is nothing in this thread or in the video that contradicts that fact.
Stuart
Quote (david @ Nov. 29 2012,15:57) t8, or anyone, in your visions of heaven page, the first image, I'm almost certain it is a picture of Butchart Gardens in Victoria, BC, Canada. Is a spectacular garden and if anyone is in BC, they have to go there.
Yes it is from there.I visited Vancouver once and wanted to go there. But never did. Maybe next time.
Quote (Stu @ Nov. 29 2012,16:48) Quote (david @ Nov. 29 2012,12:51) This very much reminds me of the atheist in the video posted on the last page, who only needed the right feelings and ideas to come together to suddenly realize God exists.
Did the person in the video say that she thought a god existed?Rather, it was demonstrated that she could be induced by emotional manipulation to have the kind of experience that others attribute to something they call god, based on no evidence of that extra conclusion whatever.
And don't forget that t8 has just repeated the abominable claim that there is greater virtue in believing without evidence than believing with it.
There is no unambiguous evidence for any god claim whatever, and there is nothing in this thread or in the video that contradicts that fact.
Stuart
Stu there is no proof for you because that is what you want. No proof. It will stay that way as long as you want. And then one day you will die.Quote (Stu @ Nov. 29 2012,16:48) And don't forget that t8 has just repeated the abominable claim that there is greater virtue in believing without evidence than believing with it.
Not abominable, but faith is aligned with conscience.
If you don't possess it, then you have abused the conscience.A person who has not seen and yet believes the truth has strong faith and their conscience is not seared but is working as it should.
And as much as this will irritate you, it is when you believe that you see, (when it comes to faith). Likewise when you have no faith, you don't believe and hence cannot see either.
Belief is powerful. Belief in a lie is also powerful. But there is no greater belief than belief in the truth. A man who does not believe the truth has no real perception of reality. He cannot even work out the most simple basic things pertaining to reality. He is a man groping in the darkness making outrageous comments about things he feels with his hands as if he can see it as clear as day. All the while those with the light watch him groping the walls and walking blind and stumbling over things and correcting his steps hoping that no one noticed.
Quote (david @ Nov. 29 2012,15:51) This very much reminds me of the atheist in the video posted on the last page, who only needed the right feelings and ideas to come together to suddenly realize God exists.
What about the Believer who only needed the right feelings and ideas to come together to suddenly realize there was no God or the person who only needed the right feelings and ideas to come together to suddenly realize that Aliens existed.At the end of the day people can pose all kinds of theories as to why this or that happens. But the truth remains the same whether people ever connect with the truth or not. Something is real and that is obviously narrow and wide is the path of error.
Everything can be explained with an alternate view. You just need to spend a bit of time on a theory and there it is. It would take a dull mind to not be able to come up with a viable and untrue theory to explain anything.
And the kicker is that all we see and perceive is really electrical impulses to the brain. So the images are in the brain as to what the Milky Way looks like and who knows what the real really looks like anyway. We are programmed to see as we do.
Regardless, I can be sure of 2 things.
I exist. And by reason of that, someone existed first and that person wasn't me.
However, even knowing the weakness of the human mind, I still advocate that we are fearfully and wonderfully made and I have faith that I can know truth given the tools I possess.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 29 2012,20:41) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 29 2012,16:48) Quote (david @ Nov. 29 2012,12:51) This very much reminds me of the atheist in the video posted on the last page, who only needed the right feelings and ideas to come together to suddenly realize God exists.
Did the person in the video say that she thought a god existed?Rather, it was demonstrated that she could be induced by emotional manipulation to have the kind of experience that others attribute to something they call god, based on no evidence of that extra conclusion whatever.
And don't forget that t8 has just repeated the abominable claim that there is greater virtue in believing without evidence than believing with it.
There is no unambiguous evidence for any god claim whatever, and there is nothing in this thread or in the video that contradicts that fact.
Stuart
Stu there is no proof for you because that is what you want. No proof. It will stay that way as long as you want. And then one day you will die.Quote (Stu @ Nov. 29 2012,16:48) And don't forget that t8 has just repeated the abominable claim that there is greater virtue in believing without evidence than believing with it.
Not abominable, but faith is aligned with conscience.
If you don't possess it, then you have abused the conscience.A person who has not seen and yet believes the truth has strong faith and their conscience is not seared but is working as it should.
And as much as this will irritate you, it is when you believe that you see, (when it comes to faith). Likewise when you have no faith, you don't believe and hence cannot see either.
Belief is powerful. Belief in a lie is also powerful. But there is no greater belief than belief in the truth. A man who does not believe the truth has no real perception of reality. He cannot even work out the most simple basic things pertaining to reality. He is a man groping in the darkness making outrageous comments about things he feels with his hands as if he can see it as clear as day. All the while those with the light watch him groping the walls and walking blind and stumbling over things and correcting his steps hoping that no one noticed.
There is no unambiguous evidence for gods. It is as simple as that. You have never produced any such evidence, and the pope has never produced any. Whatever you want the universe to be like, the gods we imagine have only existed in our imaginations. You want to have your cake and eat it, because actually the strategy that believers must use is to hide their god claims from investigation. Otherwise gods end up as dead gods-of-the-gap.That doesn't sound like much of a god to be proud of, one that must be hidden from robust questioning.
I see you repeat the abomination about evidence-free beliefs by your comments about the conscience of those who don't possess this thing you call faith. Indeed you abuse many christians who feel they lose their faith from time to time.
As for the rest of what you write, I think you demonstrate my point perfectly that christianity is a meme transmitted by meaningless language. None of that last paragraph actually has anything relevant for anyone. It doesn't communicate anything to me, for example, even though you appear to be directing it at me. Why did you tell me that stuff? Was it for my benefit or was it the meme in your head reinforcing the memes in others' heads?
Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 29 2012,20:54) Something is real and that is obviously narrow and wide is the path of error.
Another platitude.Quote Regardless, I can be sure of 2 things. I exist.
I wouldn't put too much store in Descartes.Quote And by reason of that, someone existed first and that person wasn't me.
There never was a time of fewer than about 1000 people.Stuart
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