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God, describing Himself in the book of “Isaiah” says…
Is.46:10b “Saying, All My counsel shall be confirmed,
And all My desire will I do”.
11b “Indeed, I speak! Indeed, I will bring it about!
I formed. Indeed, I will do it”.Is there any doubt what He is saying? Can anyone dispute that He cannot do what He intends to do?
An explanation of Gods' doings, that He is in complete control.
Eph.1:11 … being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,
Can one make a case that this is not true? Is anyone else capable of thwarting His plans?
What is Gods' plan for mankind? Will our so-called “free will” defeat Gods doings? What will happen to us, can we save ourselves by doing what we believe He wants us to do?
Eph.2:8-10 …8 For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present,
9 not of works, lest anyone should be boasting.
10 For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.Note especially verse 10, “for His achievment are we”. How can we be so proud, so ungreatful, so boastful, as to think He (God) needs our help to achieve His purpose?
In 1Cor. 15, it takes us far beyond the book of Revelation, to the “consummation”, the completion of creation, the final result of His creative endeavour,
1Cor.15:25-28 25 For He (Christ Jesus) must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy is being abolished: death.
27 For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him.
28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)At the begining of creation, He (God) created Jesus, (Rev.3:14 …God's Creative Original:) through whom He created all things. Now as explained in 1Co.15, at the “consummation”, Christ Jesus handed over the perfected creation back to God, Who will be “ALL in all”.
When stated in scripture that “every Knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess…” who can deny His staement in Isaiah …”All My desire will I do”?
Does mankind have a part in saving himself? Is God not capable? can we take away His Glory for what He is doing?
…lest we should boast!
Blessings.
Chosenone…..The So-called (FREE WILL) idology has blinds their eye, and causes them to trust in themselves and their self choices as their means of salvation, which robs the glory that belongs to the (ONLY TRUE GOD). Imo
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Quote (Gene @ May 24 2009,01:59) Chosenone…..The So-called (FREE WILL) idology has blinds their eye, and causes them to trust in themselves and their self choices as their means of salvation, which robs the glory that belongs to the (ONLY TRUE GOD). Imo peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Hi Gene. Yes, so very true, thanks.Blessings.
Gene and chosenone You believe that we don't have a free will? It is our choice if we want to have Faith in Christ which then Salvation is a free gift from God. God send His Son into the world not to condemn the world, but that through Him all might be saveth. If we would not have a free will, there would be no need to have a Savior. All would then just be saved. But God gives us a choice to have Faith in Christ or not. We have a choice to sin or not. We have a choice to be Baptized and receive the Holy Spirit,or not. Without the Holy Spirit we would not grow and understand the things of God. Again Gene you make remarks that are not fitting as a Christian, why do you find it neccasary to do so?
IreneIrene……….Where is any of that written, please post it. Show me the word (FREE WILL) any where in scripture, also show me where we make our own (FAITH) Jesus clearly said (NO) man (CAN) come unto me except the FATHER DRAW (Greek DRAG) Him. Where is your, So- Called FREE WILL There. Jesus told His disciples You did (NOT) choose me, I chose you. He also said unto His deciles blessed are you for it has been given to you to understand the things of the Kingdom. Salvation is (NOT) a SELF CHOICE anything. For we are saved by GRACE and That (NOT) of OURSELVES BY our so-called free will choices or works least (ANY) should BOAST. IMO
peace and love………………………gene
Gene, if I do not have a free will then this is God telling you that we have free will or choice, (according to you).
Quote (Gene @ May 24 2009,12:14) Irene……….Where is any of that written, please post it. Show me the word (FREE WILL) any where in scripture, also show me where we make our own (FAITH) Jesus clearly said (NO) man (CAN) come unto me except the FATHER DRAW (Greek DRAG) Him. Where is your, So- Called FREE WILL There. Jesus told His disciples You did (NOT) choose me, I chose you. He also said unto His deciles blessed are you for it has been given to you to understand the things of the Kingdom. Salvation is (NOT) a SELF CHOICE anything. For we are saved by GRACE and That (NOT) of OURSELVES BY our so-called free will choices or works least (ANY) should BOAST. IMO peace and love………………………gene
Gene Why would that be written somewhere, it is a Human thing, if I want to say to you that you are stupid for instants, that is my choice. If I want to sin , that is my choice. Common sense, Gene. Salvation will not happen unless you have Faith in Christ. If I decide not to get Baptized that is my choice. Nobody is forcing anybody to do things. God wants us to obey Him by our free will. He does not want robots. It has to come from our Hearts. We are not talking about how God is calling us. We can be baptized and still do our own will, and loose out on maybe being one of the chosen ones. There are a lot of so called Christians and what dos Jesus say to them:” I never knew you.” When you say Salvation is by grace, that is true. But it still is my choice if I want to except it or not. If I except then I cannot boast, because Christ is who went to the Cross and saved us. Ask yourself this. Are the Old T. people saved? I do not think so. They will have a choice in the Millenium. At the end of the Millenium Satan will be looses and all will be tested. Millions will go with Satan Revelation tells. It was their choice. When Jesus choose His disciples, they could have said no. It was Judas choice, because of greed, that He deceived Christ. It was His choice that He hung himself. Nobody forced Him. It is Stu's choice to be an Atheist. It is my choice to answer this post. It is my Husband choice not to.
Peace and Love IreneIrene …..You will do what ever most influences you. FREE WILL has nothing to do with it, only influenced WILL, Big difference. A truly (FREE) WILL is not influence by anything, no one has that kind of a WILL in them. We are all held captive by our influenced Wills. Jesus came to set the Captives FREE. Those held captive by their (INFLUENCED) Wills. WE are (caused) to chose Christ as i quoted Him saying. That is why He Said (NO MAN) (CAN) COME UNTO ME (EXCEPT0 THE FATHER DRAW HIM. What part of those quotes you don't understand?. Again i say we are saved by GRACE, and that (NOT) of OURSELVES, Your problem is not with me its with what is written. Show me the words (FREE WILLS) anywhere in scripture, you can't find it right, so why assume it then. IMO
peace and love………………gene
Quote (t8 @ May 24 2009,12:58) Gene, if I do not have a free will then this is God telling you that we have free will or choice, (according to you).
T8………It is not God telling you anything it is you influenced Choices that are causing you to say that. If it is of GOD then it still an influence and therefore (caused) choice, If it is of You the it still is a influenced and therefore (caused) Choice. Nothing (FREE) about it, simply cause and effect. Human kind wants to believe it is in control of its destiny and its Choices because of PRIDE. They want to steal Glory for their salvation , by saying (They Chose FREELY) to save themselves The WILLED it to HAPPEN. Therefore salvation is not a matter of a (FREE) Gift it is a matter of their (FREE WILL CHOICES), so then GOD owes it to them and they recieve salvation by what is due them , and a GIFT has nothing to do with it. T8, you can delude yourself all you want to, but every Choice you make is a (CAUSED) CHOICE and (FREE WILL) has nothing to do with it, it never did. imopeace and love………………….gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 24 2009,14:03) Hi Irene,
There is no second chance.
Judgement follows death.
Who is talking about second chance?
For the majority of people it will be their first chance.Georg
Quote (Cindy @ May 24 2009,06:45) Gene and chosenone You believe that we don't have a free will? It is our choice if we want to have Faith in Christ which then Salvation is a free gift from God. God send His Son into the world not to condemn the world, but that through Him all might be saveth. If we would not have a free will, there would be no need to have a Savior. All would then just be saved. But God gives us a choice to have Faith in Christ or not. We have a choice to sin or not. We have a choice to be Baptized and receive the Holy Spirit,or not. Without the Holy Spirit we would not grow and understand the things of God. Again Gene you make remarks that are not fitting as a Christian, why do you find it neccasary to do so?
Irene
Hi Cindy.
A “free gift” would not have any conditions to recieving it. Yet you state:…It is our choice if we want to have Faith in Christ which then Salvation is a free gift from God.
This wasn't a “free gift” if you had to qualify for it by making a 'choice' to have faith in Christ! A “free gift” is given with 'no conditions', if there are 'conditions', then it isn't a “free gift”.You also say:
…If we would not have free will, there would be no need to have a Saviour. How does this make any sense? Christ Jesus died for “our sins”, He payed the penalty in our place, He, God, has “justified “us though the death and resurrection of His Son (2Cor.5:18-19 … Yet all is of God, Who conciliates us to Himself through Christ, and is giving us the dispensation of the conciliation,
19 how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them, and placing in us the word of the conciliation).Blessings.
Hi CO,
God has never said He will save all men.
You should not adapt the writings to the saved and make them into a new gospel for all men.The gospel of the kingdom says that all must repent.[acts 17]
Quote (Gene @ May 24 2009,12:14) Irene……….Where is any of that written, please post it. Show me the word (FREE WILL) any where in scripture, also show me where we make our own (FAITH) Jesus clearly said (NO) man (CAN) come unto me except the FATHER DRAW (Greek DRAG) Him. Where is your, So- Called FREE WILL There. Jesus told His disciples You did (NOT) choose me, I chose you. He also said unto His deciles blessed are you for it has been given to you to understand the things of the Kingdom. Salvation is (NOT) a SELF CHOICE anything. For we are saved by GRACE and That (NOT) of OURSELVES BY our so-called free will choices or works least (ANY) should BOAST. IMO peace and love………………………gene
To All: I don't think I have to read in the Bible that I have free will. If my will is to walk down the street, or not walk down the street, or help an old lady cross the street, or kill the old lady or make any decision I wish, I would call that free will! There may be consequences but I can do at will.
All are called by God. Some come, some do not but the calling is for all. God is pure Love which attracts humans that are created from Love.For me, salvation is believing who and what I have been made through Christ. If you believe the Truth that you have been made the righteousness of God in Christ then you are, sinless, spotless and pure. If you don't believe there's nothing you can “do”. Also if you come to God by faith you could only fall away from God by unbelief! Our sin has been taken away by Jesus.
Just a few thoughts. Bless you, TKTim Kraft………The question is Not can you will to walk down the street, it is what caused you to WILL to do that, was it from a totally (FREE) uninfluenced WILL or was it from an influenced WILL. The Word FREE means it is FREE from (ANY) influence what so ever. If i said to you here are three Pies , a cherry, a apple, and a peach, please Choose one of them, and you would look them over and think to yourself, I today want the peach pie, is that a (FREE WILL) Choice, or was it an influenced Choice, I contend it was an influenced choice, because you reasoned that you desired the peach over the others, So how did you come to that decision? it was based on you past experience and understanding and therefore your Choice was (INFLUENCED) and not at all FREE. WE are (CAUSED to COME to JESUS), thats why He said (NO) man can (truly) Come to Him unless the FATHER DRAW HIM. That is also why it says (ONLY) ONE WILL Will be done in the KINGDOM of GOD. Jesus plainly said He can (NOT) to do HIS WILL, No but the influenced will of GOD, For the FATHER worked in HIM (BOTH) to WILL and DO HIS GOOD PLEASURE, as He does us also. This whole concept of so-called (FREE WILLS) is another of the false teaching of the Whore Church. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
Gene A free will, is a free will, mo matter how you apply it. Why is that so hard to understand?
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Nick Hassan @ May 24 2009,21:51) Hi CO,
God has never said He will save all men.
You should not adapt the writings to the saved and make them into a new gospel for all men.The gospel of the kingdom says that all must repent.[acts 17]
The gospel of the “Kingdom” was to Isael.The gospel of “Grace” is to all nations.
1Tim4:9-11 …9 Faithful is the saying and worthy of all welcome
10 (for for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind,
11 especially of believers. These things be charging and teaching.Nick, you need a new bible, yours seem to miss some scriptures.
Quote (Cindy @ May 25 2009,06:30) Gene A free will, is a free will, mo matter how you apply it. Why is that so hard to understand?
Peace and Love Irene
Hi Irene,
I realise “free will” is off the topic in this thread, but may I reply?
In Acts9:1-6
1 Now Saul, still breathing out threatening and murder against the disciples of the Lord, approaching the chief priest,
2 requests from him letters for Damascus to the synagogues, so that, if he should be finding any who are of the way, both men and women, he may be leading them bound to Jerusalem.
3 Now in his going he came to be nearing Damascus. Suddenly a light out of heaven flashes about him.
4 And falling on the earth, he hears a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”
5 Yet he said, “Who art Thou, Lord?” Yet He said, “I am Jesus Whom you are persecuting.
6 Nevertheless, rise and enter the city, and it will be spoken to you what you must be doing.”Notice it was Sauls (later called “Paul”) will to persecute the deciples of the Lord, threatening and murdering them. Yet Gods will was for him to be an apostle to the nations.
Did he (Saul) have 'free will”? His will was opposed to Gods will, Who's will prevailed?Blessings.
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