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@t8
Your problem is not with me but with scriptures. I side with scriptures and I am in good company with the early church fathers, btw.Therefore neither would the Lord, nor the Holy Spirit, nor the apostles, have ever named as God, definitely and absolutely, him who was not God, unless he were truly God; nor would they have named any one in his own person Lord, except God the Father ruling over all, and His Son who has received dominion from His Father over all creation, as this passage has it: “The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit Thou at my right hand, until I make Thine enemies Thy footstool.”3329 Here the [Scripture] represents to us the Father addressing the Son; He who gave Him the inheritance of the heathen, and subjected to Him all His enemies. Since, therefore, the Father is truly Lord, and the Son truly Lord, the Holy Spirit has fitly designated them by the title of Lord. And again, referring to the destruction of the Sodomites, the Scripture says, “Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah fire and brimstone from the Lord out of heaven.”3330 For it here points out that the Son, who had also been talking with Abraham, had received power to judge the Sodomites 419 for their wickedness. And this [text following] does declare the same truth: “Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever; the sceptre of Thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity: therefore God, Thy God, hath anointed Thee.”3331 For the Spirit designates both [of them] by the name, of God—both Him who is anointed as Son, and Him who does anoint, that is, the Father.
T8……And your view is that by mans so-called FREEWILL, man can chose his way into righteousness, so according to you, who need us to be “Created”,”unto good works” and who needs God “to work “IN” us BOTH to “WILL” and do of “HIS good pleasure. We can achieve it all by our own so-called FREEWILLS. Now that is a real “LOL”, if you ask me.
The scriptures I have says, God looked for “ONE” RIGHTIOUS MAN, and found NONE. Seems FREEWILLERS are unable to make the right choices why is that T8”, surely God want us to have our OWN FREEWILLS so we can have our own “SOVEREIGNTY” and maybe in a billion years someone might make all the right choices and become a RIGHTIOUS man. Hay maybe Job could have been “a perfect and upright man”, on his own by his so-called freewill choices, and then God would not have had to put a hedge about him to keep Satan from influencing his “FREE” will, right”.
Maybe the apostle Paul did not know what he was talking about either, about the vessels of wrath and the vessels of mercy that God Himself makes. Truth is T8 you hate the idea that OUR GOD IS APSOLUTELY “SOVEREIGN” in everything that exists, I am glad it is that way, but you on the other Hand, it seems, could not live with a APSOLUTELY SOVEREIGN GOD. YOU demand your own so-called will that is free by itself, to decide for you what you will do or not do, good luck your going to need it. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
Gene,
You are saying a lot of words to answer a simple argument.
If you believe that each of us has no more ability to choose between one path and another then why bother trying to convince any one of us to choose one path over another.
T8 is accusing you of saying with your words and yet another with your actions.
LU.
I see no reason to brag about being in company with the early church fathers even if it was true as from what I have they were a bunch of heretics.
If it was true your brag that your doctrine is in line with Scripture would be a better one.
According to Scripture there is only one true God and he cannot not be tempted by evil. According to Scripture that God is not human and Jesus is. According to Scripture that God is not tempted by evil even as we are but Jesus is.
Crack-pottery is common among human being whose itching ears want to hear that they are justified in continuing to sin and they find those doctrines that will say what they want to hear. Those teachings do not save.
Gene, we have free will. God provides the options and actually so does the Devil. Yes we cannot choose outside of reality because it doesn’t exist.
Choose:
God or the world
Love or hate
Light or darknessChoose whom you will serve this day. But you teach that we cannot choose. So why even preach to the lost. Why try to convince us there is no free will.
Very funny Gene. You want us to choose your view which is that we cannot choose.
Oxymoron and confusion/babylon.
T8…….No, I am saying righteousness is not a matter of choice, it is a matter of CREATIONS, I am SAYING We are “CREATED” UNTO GOOD WORKS, You and Kerwin and others are saying WE CHOSE GOOD WORKS by our “OWN” WILS, that are completely FREE. Now that is the difference , please don’t try to twist what I am saying and then moch me. I have never said we do not have freedom to excercise our captivated and influenced WILLS now have I?, that is you twisting my words. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours……………..gene
All you have said in defense Gene is the very thing that you have been opposing. So you have come round to the truth.
Within reality there are certain choices we can make. I cannot choose to go to Jupiter right now, but I can choose to walk to the local park or not.
And notice you said we are free to choose among our captivated wills. lol. Just say it Gene and we can all move on and use this time wisely. We are free to choose among certain presented choices available to us. This is what we have been teaching from the beginning and your post above actually endorses this. Humble yourself and move on. It is for your own benefit to do this.
You are free to choose my advice or not as it is an option that resides in the reality around you.Scripture says “Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes.” This is the strategy I am taking to you. You call it mocking, but I am showing you the foolishness of you teaching regarding there is no free will and then expecting us to choose your view. Surely you can see how foolish your actions have been?
T8…..wrong, i don’t expect you to agree with our will are not themselves free, because most of all mankind believes that, not just you. But that does not change the truth that the will of man “ITSELF” IS FAR FROM FREE, and i am not the only who know This, i gave you a site that produces all kind of scriptures backing this up, but you and others here refused to go and read it, EDJ PRODUCED A VIDEO, also that back this up, but the carnal mind does not want to believe it, because of the pride of life that is in them.
peace and love to you and yours………gene
Gene, if you are not free to choose and somehow this results in you denying God later in your life, then you cannot accuse God of anything because this eventuality is possible with your view and you endorse it as truth. However, you can complain that you are not happy that you were not free to choose otherwise, but God can turn to you and say, you argued for this possibility on Heaven Net for years.
I myself am certainly free and accountable for my decisions. If I reject God it is because I myself chose to do so. However, I am confident that I will continue to choose God of my own free will. I choose to love God and I can only assume in a world where there is no free will, then love is not freely chosen thus love is nothing but a programmed response. A sad and poor view of reality IMO.
T8……..again you are not understanding what i have said, i am not talking about us not having liberty to excersie our “captivated” will’s , you seem unable to precieve this, why is that?
peace and love to you and love………….gene
You oppose free will Gene. This is what this topic is about. If your theory of a free captivated will is really just free will, then say so and we can all go and do something useful. I said a long time ago gene that you are playing with words here and wasting everyone’s time.
Time is a precious resource. Spend it wisely. We are told specifically not to engage our time in useless debates or arguments.
T8………i don’t oppose freewill, because no will is free, all will’s are driven and held captive by what driving them. I said we have liberty to “EXECERISE” THOSE “CAPTIVATED” WILL’S. T8, Instead of rediculing and making all kinds of off the wall commits aimed at my person, why don’t you deal WITH all those scriptures i have over the years posted over and over. Why do you just blurt out a bunch of you own personal opinions, with out any strong scripturial support. Show us a single scripture dealing with the will in MAN, SAYING IT is FREE ITSELF.
GO READ EZE 36:24-32 AND GIVE IT AN HONEST EVALUATION TELL HOW WE ARE “CAUSED” TO CHOSE God way and keep his statues and judgements, pay patictular attention to verse 27, and come back and tell us how your so-called “freewill” will, fit into that picture OK?
peace and love to you and yours……………gene
When the enemy comes in like a flood, I will pour out my spirit says the LORD.
So what are the driving forces here?
God’s Spirit and the enemy.
Thus we choose which to follow.
Simple and true Gene.
Accept or reject what God has said.
The Spirit of truth or the enemy. Your CHOICE.
T8…post the scriptures you are refering to, what you have posted makes apsolutely no sense at, nor you conclusions. Your pride is forcing you to grab straws again, post clear scriptures that present wills, that are free themselves. Your carnel reasionings means nothing to me, nor anyone else i believe. Deal with all the scripture i have posted over the years that back up exactly what i am saying. Why do you keep advoiding ^hem like the plague. Is it because you can’t answer them, or don’t know what they mean?
peace and love to you and yours………….gene
Gene, God doesn’t test us beyond what we can endure. This preserves our ability to choose. Otherwise factors would overwhelm us. Remember he is not willing that any perish, but that all will come to life eternal. His will of course is not sovereign in all. Because he has left it up to us to choose, then some are not saved because they choose not God. But if everything was the result of God’s will, then all would be saved. But love doesn’t work like that Gene. Love gives freedom to its subjects.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.You argue that our wills are not free. But maybe you need to partake of God’s spirit. He will make you free Gene.
God e gives us the ability to choose him and once we do that, then we have the power to overcome the world. But if you do not choose God, then you are not really free but a slave of the world and the god of this age. Either way however, we can choose this or that, but to choose our destiny and true freedom, one must choose God.
If you do not have freedom Gene, then you need God’s Spirit.
T8…..lets deal with you preception of repentance first, you posted a scripture that brings this out, but what you failed to bring out is who causes repentance in the first place,is it us by a will that is working free of any influence or is it God himself that “CAUSES” REPENTANCE.
ACT 5:30-31….TheGod of our fathers raised up JESUS, whom you slew and hanged on a tree. 31, Him has God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince anda Savior, for (why), to give REPENTANCE to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Act 11-18….when they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified GOD, saying, then has God also to the Gentiles “GRANTED REPENTANCE” unto life.
Rom 2:4…..or despise you the riches of his goodness and forebearance and longsuffering, not knowibg that the goodness of God “LEADS” to REPENTANCE?
2 Cor7:9…Now i rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that you sorrowed to REPENTANCE: for you were “MADE SORRY” after a gogly manner, …….10 For godly sorrow “WORKS” REPENTANCE TO SALVATION, not to be repented of: but he sorrow of the world works death.
2 Ti 2:25……In meekness instructing those who that oppose themselves; if “GOD” preadventure will “GIVE” THEM “REPENTANCE”.
SO T8……who “CAUSES” REPENTANCE, our so-called free will, or are we CAUSED by God to repent. Does this scripture mean anything to you,
Isa 26:12…LORD, you will ordain peace for us: for you also have wrought “ALL” OUR “WORKS” IN US.
2 Ti 1:9……Who has saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to “OUR WORKS”, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.
Php 2:13…For it is God which works in you both to “WILL” AND DO OF “HIS” GOOD PLEASURE.
MY how so-called “freewillers” hate those scriptures, they want to make it all about themselves and their own egotistical wills that they thank is completely free from their maker, GOD’s WILL.
peace and love to you and yours…………gene
T8……HERE is another of your countryman …..GOD’S GOLDEN KNIGHT……. check him out , while i do not agree with everythig he says,but i do agree with his understanding about a so-called freewwill. Maybe he can enlighten you. Hope so.
Peace and love to you and yours. …………..gene
Gene, Gene, Gene, salvation is a free gift of God, lest any man should boast. It is given by God and you have to receive it. God gives all good things. If he did not give us repentance, then how could we choose to repent.
You have chosen to stick to your view and fit scripture into it.
Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
Not all choose to exercise God’s gifts.
Answer me this. Did God allow man to FREELY eat from any tree in the garden except for the Tree of God and Evil?
Yes. And even though he did not allow man to eat from that one tree, they did it anyway.
T8……First of all God did not prevent them, but he did sure command them not to. Now did EVE eat of her own freewill, no she was coursed to by the serpent, would they have, had the serpent not been there, proberly, Satan was just a catalyst causing the reaction quicker then it would normally would have happened, why, because that propensity was placed in them by GOD AT CREATION. But if that propensity was there, then that was the CAUSE, behind the action, still nothing free about it. God knew all along they would do what they did it was in his plan from the beginning imo. It is needfull mankind goes throw these things, so we can learn clearly the difference between GOOD AND EVIL. IMO
Your still getting our liberty to excercise our influenced wills mixed up with the will itself. Have you went to your fellow country man, GOD’S GOLDEN KNIGHT, SITE ANDREAD WHAT HE HAS SAID, give it a try, because it is obvious you will not believe what i have posted here over and over. Maybe others can help you understand.
peace and love toyou and yours T8………………..gene
You do not understand free will. The Serpent tempted them. God told them not to eat the fruit of that tree.
Two opposing wills and we are free to choose among those options.
They were not forced by either. Both God and Satan made a suggestion, but ultimately the man was free to make his choice.
God said, “You can freely eat of any tree”. He then advised man to not eat from one particular tree. Man was free to eat and as we know he was free to go against what God told them not to do.
Ultimately, if I follow your view, then I have to ignore that God told man that they could freely eat from any tree and change that for man will eat from the tree that captivates him. Then the Bible is wrong if I took your view. Hence why I have never considered your view as the correct one.
Likewise, I am free to choose to believe your version as being correct. I choose to believe that you are not correct by reason of the scriptures. We can use scripture to rebuke, correct, and encourage. In this case, I am rebuking your view because you have to deny that man was FREE to eat from any tree and hence making YHWH to be a liar is the only conclusion I can draw.
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