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Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 11 2012,10:51) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 10 2012,21:55) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 11 2012,11:22) Another crackpot doctrine newly surfaced: “Even Believers in Christ can be worshiped too.”
Please uncrackpot that one LU.Revelation 3:9
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.The word 'worship' here is 'proskuneo' in case there was any doubt.
So there you go. Proskuneo does not mean worship God in all cases. If people 'proskuneo' Jesus as the son OF God and as the Lamb OF God, then that is because he is both of these.
Christians WILL NOT be worshiped. Where Christians gather, that is where the Jews will worship the Father AND the Son…in the Christian church.Read and learn:
John Gill's commentarybehold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet; the conversion of the Jews is here intended. The worship here spoken of is not either a religious or civil worship of the church, for the church is not the object of worship; only before whom, and at whose feet, this worship shall be given to God in the most humble and hearty manner: the sense is, that the convinced and converted Jews shall come to the church, and in the most lowly and contrite manner acknowledge their former blindness, furious zeal, and violent hatred of the Christians, and shall profess their faith in Christ; shall join themselves to the church, and partake of the ordinances of the Gospel with them; and shall worship God and Jesus Christ, their Lord and King, in their presence, and at their feet:
Case remains closed!
KCase close ,with a word like worship that can mean so many things it will never be close,until the truth will be shown to those who rebel against Gods word,
Deut 32:39 “‘See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.
Hmmmm…
there is no god beside me
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.I kill and I make alive
John 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;I wound and I heal
Mark 1:34 So Jesus healed many people who were sick with various diseases, and he cast out many demons. But because the demons knew who he was, he did not allow them to speak.and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.
John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.So, it seems that Jesus is identifying Himself with YHWH.
Either He is YHWH alone.
OR
He and the Father are both YHWH!To go with the above to prove the crackpot doctrine that Jesus is not Jehovah/YHWH is WRONG!
Isaiah 44:6 “This is what the LORD says–Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.
Israel's King and Redeemer
Matt 2:2 “Where is the newborn king of the Jews? We saw his star as it rose, and we have come to worship him.”
Matt 27:11 Meanwhile Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?” “Yes, it is as you say,” Jesus replied.I am the first and I am the last
Rev 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.
Rev 2:8 “To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.apart from me there is no God.
Again like the last post…
Either Jesus is identifying Himself as the only YHWH or He and the Father are together the one YHWH.Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 11 2012,12:02) To go with the above to prove the crackpot doctrine that Jesus is not Jehovah/YHWH is WRONG! Isaiah 44:6 “This is what the LORD says–Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.
Israel's King and Redeemer
Matt 2:2 “Where is the newborn king of the Jews? We saw his star as it rose, and we have come to worship him.”
Matt 27:11 Meanwhile Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?” “Yes, it is as you say,” Jesus replied.I am the first and I am the last
Rev 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.
Rev 2:8 “To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.apart from me there is no God.
Again like the last post…
Either Jesus is identifying Himself as the only YHWH or He and the Father are together the one YHWH.
KYou really do not understand scriptures ,if only you could believe what scriptures are saying ,you would understand them better,
A child can understand those verses
Quote A child can understand those verses Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 11 2012,11:09) Deut 32:39 “‘See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand. Hmmmm…
there is no god beside me
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.I kill and I make alive
John 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;I wound and I heal
Mark 1:34 So Jesus healed many people who were sick with various diseases, and he cast out many demons. But because the demons knew who he was, he did not allow them to speak.and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.
John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.So, it seems that Jesus is identifying Himself with YHWH.
Either He is YHWH alone.
OR
He and the Father are both YHWH!
KPsalm:86:8 says
None can be compare to you among the gods,O Lord
It seems that their are many gods but none like God almighty
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 11 2012,21:01) Exactly!
Kbut then you agree that there his only one almighty God (single )
and all others are lower level gods right
No, I believe that Psalm 86:8 refers to the one Corporate God which is the YHWH Echad, the eternal God unity.
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 10 2012,23:09) I kill and I make alive
John 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;
John 6:57
Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.Kathi, what do you suppose Jesus meant by, “I live because of the Father”?
Do you suppose it corresponds to the following?
Malachi 2:10
Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 11 2012,15:12) No, I believe that Psalm 86:8 refers to the one Corporate God which is the YHWH Echad, the eternal God unity.
And why is that, Kathi? Because of Deut 10:17, where the Father was called the God of gods and Lord of lords?Or perhaps because of your new favorite Aramaic Bible?
Where can we read about this “God Unity” in the scriptures? Is there a scripture that PLAINLY teaches us that our one God is a unity of two Gods? Where is that scripture?
And what does it mean for one of those “Gods” to tell us that our God is also his God?
I'm now on my fifth time through the entire Bible, and I have yet to read about any “Echad Unity Godhead” being. I've only read about our ONE God, and His SON Jesus Christ (who happens to have the same God we all have).
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 11 2012,23:06) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 11 2012,21:01) Exactly!
bingo, Kathi and I agreeing
allsorry we do not ;she wants God to be like she likes him to be ,
who his God beside Kathi any way
a nobody,Kathi his now the new creator she is the lather of the three
1) Muhammad, 2) Joseph Smith, and 3) Kathi the light
terrarricca,
You will have to give account to YHWH for all you careless and foolish false judgements against the Christian, btw.Mike,
you said:Quote And why is that, Kathi? Because of Deut 10:17, where the Father was called the God of gods and Lord of lords?
Show me anywhere in the Bible that says the Father is the God of gods and the Lord of lords with both titles in the same verse as well as the word 'Father.'If you can't see that Jesus identifies Himself as Jehovah in the NT it is because you are not reading with eyes to see that.
Mike's version of the Bible…the idon'twantjesustobemygod bible version.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 11 2012,18:46) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 10 2012,23:09) I kill and I make alive
John 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;
John 6:57
Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.Kathi, what do you suppose Jesus meant by, “I live because of the Father”?
Do you suppose it corresponds to the following?
Malachi 2:10
Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?
No, it doesn't correlate to that. If it did, we all would already have 'life.'Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 12 2012,09:39) Show me anywhere in the Bible that says the Father is the God of gods and the Lord of lords with both titles in the same verse as well as the word 'Father.'
Okay jammin Jr.! Kathi, do you agree that the Father is a God of other gods? Do you agree that the Father is a Lord of other lords?Then why wouldn't Deut 10:17 just NATURALLY be speaking about the Father? What reason would ANYONE have to just assume it was speaking of some “Unity Godhead”?
The answer lies in your next statement:
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 12 2012,09:39) If you can't see that Jesus identifies Himself as Jehovah in the NT it is because you are not reading with eyes to see that.
So in other words, this “truth” is fairly well hidden in the scriptures, and to find it, one must be reading the scriptures with eyes that are fixated on finding this hidden truth?That does explain a lot, Kathi. You were not TAUGHT by ANY scripture that Jesus and his God are equally a God Almighty Echad Unity. Instead, you have been reading the scriptures with eyes that are desperately looking for any kind of snippet that you might be able to twist into “proving” what you've already made up your mind to believe.
Kathi, our God and Jesus' God is the same exact God.
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 12 2012,09:41) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 11 2012,18:46) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 10 2012,23:09) I kill and I make alive
John 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;
John 6:57
Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.Kathi, what do you suppose Jesus meant by, “I live because of the Father”?
Do you suppose it corresponds to the following?
Malachi 2:10
Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?
No, it doesn't correlate to that. If it did, we all would already have 'life.'
Hmmm……………. let me try again.Kathi, don't the words “I live BECAUSE OF the Father” directly correspond to the words “Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us?” ?
Of course they do. Jesus lives BECAUSE OF the Father, just like WE ALL live BECAUSE OF the Father. And that's because ONE GOD has created us all.
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 12 2012,21:31) terrarricca,
You will have to give account to YHWH for all you careless and foolish false judgements against the Christian, btw.
KATHIJN 4:24 “God is spirit, and those who worship Him MUST worship in spirit and truth.”
WHAT HIS THE TRUTH ACCORDING TO YOU KATHI
YOUR OPINIONS?,YOUR VIEWS??? YOUR UNDERSTANDING ,OR THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE MAJORITY OF MEN OR IS IT AS CHRIST SAYS IT ,TALKING ABOUT HIS FATHER ;YOUR WORD HIS TRUTH
the fact that you have to change what his written in scriptures does show us that you do not understand God's scriptures and so want to change them and teach others with it ,
you know their are false Christians bible say so ;but their are also true ones that believe in scriptures just the way they are written ,the spirit of truth will help the true one but the false ones will always go more and more ashray,
if you would be a true Christian you would be able to show your scriptures of truth but you can not ,this will be your account not mine
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