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Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 12 2007,01:38) Ken, Just as I thought. If one can be a spiritual Jew, then one can be a spiritual Pharisee.
What does IHN&L mean anyway? In His Name & Love? Well, please show me where you exhibit the Love part. I've yet to see it. All I ever see is judgment. Which is fine, it is your life after all.
You break one commandment and I'll break another. We both transgress.
If I didn't love I wouldn't be trying to make blind men SEE.If I didn't care I would let you continue to be deceived.
I'm not arguing if I'M RIGHT I'm giving SCRIPTURE or didn't you read?
Here let me put the scripture down again.
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
The Sabbath is NOT yours it's HIS. It's not yours to change!
You are trying to say that the Seventh day is Ken's day. No! I'm saying that the Seventh day is GOD'S day and no one else's. It is you and others that say they can choose which day is the Sabbath.
Cain said I will offer what “I” want! Did God like that? Now you say “I” will keep any day as the Sabbath. God Doesn't like that anymore then He liked what Cain did.
Again do what YOU want. But KNOW this you are not arguing with me you are arguing with God's WORD that I gave.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.It is truly the end time.
IHN&L,
Ken
Mat 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
Mat 7:16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Mat 7:17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit.
Mat 7:18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'
What is the will of the Father. Well it HAS to deal with the Law for those who don’t do His will Jesus calls Lawless.
Is the will of the Father to take His law and change it? To do what YOU will with it? “Workers of Lawlessness”
Wolves in sheep's clothing who tickle the ears of those who want to justify their actions. It's SO clear yet you cannot see Or WILL NOT see.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
IHN&L,
Ken
Ken,
You get all uptight and act like you are showing us truth in the scripture. I ask you to show me where the Sabbath is evening Friday to evening Saturday according to scripture, and you've yet to do so. All you say is “The bible is a Jewish book” or “look at the calendar”. You practice strict legalism based upon what you believe, but yet you can not substantially back up your beliefs other than using CAPS and appearing to “froth” at the keyboard.
Its obvious that you still do not understand exactly why Yeshua came. He came because he knew people were seeking righteousness by fulfilling the Law, but in turn not understanding what the Law truly signified. The Jews of his day were the case. Like them, you point your finger at “transgressors” and tell them they can't be true. They pointed their finger at Yeshua, and you point your finger at those who I believe to honestly love God. But in doing so, you appoint yourself as judge. Did God appoint you, or is this something you've decided to do on your own?
You assume that if someone doesn't keep Saturday Sabbath, they are not showing they love God. Yet I know many people that have more love in their little toe for God and fellow man who don't observe the Saturday Sabbath. Do to mean to rob them of their sincerity and love of God because you feel that they are not obeying the Sabbath as you feel it is to be obeyed? Yes, I say you, because you still have yet to back up Saturday Sabbath with scripture. Until then, it is you.
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 12 2007,02:24) Ken, You get all uptight and act like you are showing us truth in the scripture. I ask you to show me where the Sabbath is evening Friday to evening Saturday according to scripture, and you've yet to do so. All you say is “The bible is a Jewish book” or “look at the calendar”. You practice strict legalism based upon what you believe, but yet you can not substantially back up your beliefs other than using CAPS and appearing to “froth” at the keyboard.
Its obvious that you still do not understand exactly why Yeshua came. He came because he knew people were seeking righteousness by fulfilling the Law, but in turn not understanding what the Law truly signified. The Jews of his day were the case. Like them, you point your finger at “transgressors” and tell them they can't be true. They pointed their finger at Yeshua, and you point your finger at those who I believe to honestly love God. But in doing so, you appoint yourself as judge. Did God appoint you, or is this something you've decided to do on your own?
You assume that if someone doesn't keep Saturday Sabbath, they are not showing they love God. Yet I know many people that have more love in their little toe for God and fellow man who don't observe the Saturday Sabbath. Do to mean to rob them of their sincerity and love of God because you feel that they are not obeying the Sabbath as you feel it is to be obeyed? Yes, I say you, because you still have yet to back up Saturday Sabbath with scripture. Until then, it is you.
If I didn't think those here didn't love God I would be GONE!OK:
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.God's day starts at sunset this is common knowledge to those who know the truth, agreed?
Exo 16:22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
Exo 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.What day is the sixth day? Look at the “weekly” calendar. It is Friday God's sixth day.
Then God said TOMORROW following the sixth day is the seventh day is it not? IS THE REST OF THE HOLY SABBATH UNTO THE LORD
Which day?
Is it the first day? No that's the Harlot's day? Well is it any of the other six days? Again NO! It is the SEVENTH day.
Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 11 2007,09:36) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 12 2007,02:24) Ken, You get all uptight and act like you are showing us truth in the scripture. I ask you to show me where the Sabbath is evening Friday to evening Saturday according to scripture, and you've yet to do so. All you say is “The bible is a Jewish book” or “look at the calendar”. You practice strict legalism based upon what you believe, but yet you can not substantially back up your beliefs other than using CAPS and appearing to “froth” at the keyboard.
Its obvious that you still do not understand exactly why Yeshua came. He came because he knew people were seeking righteousness by fulfilling the Law, but in turn not understanding what the Law truly signified. The Jews of his day were the case. Like them, you point your finger at “transgressors” and tell them they can't be true. They pointed their finger at Yeshua, and you point your finger at those who I believe to honestly love God. But in doing so, you appoint yourself as judge. Did God appoint you, or is this something you've decided to do on your own?
You assume that if someone doesn't keep Saturday Sabbath, they are not showing they love God. Yet I know many people that have more love in their little toe for God and fellow man who don't observe the Saturday Sabbath. Do to mean to rob them of their sincerity and love of God because you feel that they are not obeying the Sabbath as you feel it is to be obeyed? Yes, I say you, because you still have yet to back up Saturday Sabbath with scripture. Until then, it is you.
If I didn't think those here didn't love God I would be GONE!OK:
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.God's day starts at sunset this is common knowledge to those who know the truth, agreed?
Does it say here that “first day” signifies the first calendar day of the week? Or rather does it signify the separation of the days of creation? Do you believe that all men from Adam to Noah kept accurate records of the day of the week? We don't know how long Adam spent in the Garden before he was “evicted”. Does it say how many days? Did Adam keep track?Quote Exo 16:22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
Exo 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.Quote What day is the sixth day? Look at the “weekly” calendar. It is Friday God's sixth day.
Yes, it is the sixth day of the week. Yet, the scripture above does not say sixth day of the week. It merely says sixth day. I'm not trying to be contentious here but to show you that it may very well be that God was not being specific for a purpose. That is, that it is not so much the exact day of the week, but that you observe 6 days of labor and 1 day of rest. The Jews developed their own pattern so they would agree on the day.Quote Then God said TOMORROW following the sixth day is the seventh day is it not? IS THE REST OF THE HOLY SABBATH UNTO THE LORD Which day?
Again, the sixth and seventh, but neither specifies “of the week”. Could it not be of the cycle? That is the cycle of 6 days of labor, 1 day of rest.What day of the week did Yeshua die?
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 12 2007,03:04) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 11 2007,09:36) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 12 2007,02:24) Ken, You get all uptight and act like you are showing us truth in the scripture. I ask you to show me where the Sabbath is evening Friday to evening Saturday according to scripture, and you've yet to do so. All you say is “The bible is a Jewish book” or “look at the calendar”. You practice strict legalism based upon what you believe, but yet you can not substantially back up your beliefs other than using CAPS and appearing to “froth” at the keyboard.
Its obvious that you still do not understand exactly why Yeshua came. He came because he knew people were seeking righteousness by fulfilling the Law, but in turn not understanding what the Law truly signified. The Jews of his day were the case. Like them, you point your finger at “transgressors” and tell them they can't be true. They pointed their finger at Yeshua, and you point your finger at those who I believe to honestly love God. But in doing so, you appoint yourself as judge. Did God appoint you, or is this something you've decided to do on your own?
You assume that if someone doesn't keep Saturday Sabbath, they are not showing they love God. Yet I know many people that have more love in their little toe for God and fellow man who don't observe the Saturday Sabbath. Do to mean to rob them of their sincerity and love of God because you feel that they are not obeying the Sabbath as you feel it is to be obeyed? Yes, I say you, because you still have yet to back up Saturday Sabbath with scripture. Until then, it is you.
If I didn't think those here didn't love God I would be GONE!OK:
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.God's day starts at sunset this is common knowledge to those who know the truth, agreed?
Does it say here that “first day” signifies the first calendar day of the week? Or rather does it signify the separation of the days of creation? Do you believe that all men from Adam to Noah kept accurate records of the day of the week? We don't know how long Adam spent in the Garden before he was “evicted”. Does it say how many days? Did Adam keep track?Quote Exo 16:22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
Exo 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.What day is the sixth day? Look at the “weekly” calendar. It is Friday God's sixth day.[/quote]
Yes, it is the sixth day of the week. Yet, the scripture above does not say sixth day of the week. It merely says sixth day. I'm not trying to be contentious here but to show you that it may very well be that God was not being specific for a purpose. That is, that it is not so much the exact day of the week, but that you observe 6 days of labor and 1 day of rest.Quote Then God said TOMORROW following the sixth day is the seventh day is it not? IS THE REST OF THE HOLY SABBATH UNTO THE LORD Which day?
Again, the sixth and seventh, but neither specifies “of the week”. Could it not be of the cycle? That is the cycle of 6 days of labor, 1 day of rest.What day of the week did Yeshua die?
Aren't you being just a little silly in trying to keep to your idea?The Hebrews keep the Seventh day fromthat time until today. Do you think they know which day the seventh day Sabbath is?
EVEN IF the calendar is wrong we are only held accountable for what we know as truth. The calander says Friday is the sixth day saturday is the seventh day and Sunday is the first day. No matter where you are in the world the week is the same. The calander has changed BUT NOT THE WEEK!
Do you think God says to keep the Seventh day Sabbath unto Him and then would NOT let us know when it is?
Now it is scripture not Ken's seventh day. You read it for yourself.
What day did Jesus die on?
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Can you get three days and three nights from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning?
He died on the Passover which changes from year to year.
He died on Tuesday at sunset.
Which started Wednessday NIGHT
Thursday NIGHT
Friday Night
Thursday Daylight
Friday Daylight
Saturday Daylight
And was resurrected on Saturday (the Sabbath) at sunset.Is Jesus a liar? Was He in the heart of the earth three days and three nights. OR was He as the Catholics say in the heart of the earth from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning?
Which they lie and say He was resurrected on Sunday their Sabbath. Can you see?
There were two Sabbaths in that week. One Sabbath followed the Passover, the days of unleavened bread See John 19:31. And of course there was the weekly Sabbath.
There is NO scripture that say Jesus was resurrected on Sunday. Mary found the Tomb EMPTY. He had risen on the Sabbath.
So if you keep the correct Sabbath day you also keep the day Jesus was resurrected on.
Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 11 2007,10:30) Aren't you being just a little silly in trying to keep to your idea?
You misunderstand my intention here. Let me clarify so you will quite being so angry.My purpose is not to “prove” you wrong, but to show that you may not be “right”. Huh? It's like this: it seems that 75% of your 2000+ posts are harping on the Sabbath. You want everyone to see it is evening Friday to evening Saturday. That is fine, no issue here. But again, I showed you verses where there is no stipulation “of the week”.
In other words, if you choose to observe the Jewish day of Sabbath, fine. It is not wrong. But neither can you say it is wrong that others observe a six day labor, 1 day rest schedule. And on that one day, they focus on study, prayer, worship, and praise. That is the true meaning of the Sabbath: it was not meant to restrict people to a certain day of the calendar week but that we constantly set aside one day after six to rest and focus on God.
Let me ask you, why did Yeshua say this?
Mar 2:27 Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
God understands that people must labor to live. Yet he also wants us to rest from our labor and focus on Him. So he patterned the cycle after His days of creation: six days of labor, one day of rest.
But, again, I contend that the specification of “of the week” was left off because God wants us to observe the cycle. I know you disagree, but by telling people they are wrong for not observing Saturday Sabbath, you make the Law a burden as opposed to a love contract between them and God.
Quote The Hebrews keep the Seventh day fromthat time until today. Do you think they know which day the seventh day Sabbath is?
And yes for them, this is where the cycle falls. They have chosen this so they can be consistent with other Jews.Quote EVEN IF the calendar is wrong we are only held accountable for what we know as truth. The calander says Friday is the sixth day saturday is the seventh day and Sunday is the first day. No matter where you are in the world the week is the same. The calander has changed BUT NOT THE WEEK!
No disagreement. But again, no specification “of the week”.Quote Do you think God says to keep the Seventh day Sabbath unto Him and then would NOT let us know when it is?
Yes, He said so: 6 days of labor, 1 day of rest. The rest day is Sabbath.Quote Now it is scripture not Ken's seventh day. You read it for yourself.
Again, no specification “of the week”.Quote What day did Jesus die on? Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Can you get three days and three nights from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning?
He died on the Passover which changes from year to year.
He died on Tuesday at sunset.
Which started Wednessday NIGHT
Thursday NIGHT
Friday Night
Thursday Daylight
Friday Daylight
Saturday Daylight
And was resurrected on Saturday (the Sabbath) at sunset.Is Jesus a liar? Was He in the heart of the earth three days and three nights. OR was He as the Catholics say in the heart of the earth from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning?
Which they lie and say He was resurrected on Sunday their Sabbath. Can you see?
I do not disagree. I was just seeing what you thought. But you say “their Sabbath”. I assume you mean the RCC. Do you do anything that the RCC does? If so, then it must be wrong. Just because the RCC chose Sunday and many other offshoots followed this does not mean it is scipturally invalid. I've shown you as much but I know you disagree.Quote There were two Sabbaths in that week. One Sabbath followed the Passover, the days of unleavened bread See John 19:31. And of course there was the weekly Sabbath. There is NO scripture that say Jesus was resurrected on Sunday. Mary found the Tomb EMPTY. He had risen on the Sabbath.
So if you keep the correct Sabbath day you also keep the day Jesus was resurrected on.
The “correct” Sabbath. Now you say that Yeshua resurrection signifies the “correct” Sabbath. Do you have scripture to back up this claim? Something like “I will rise of the Sabbath”.Again, my intention here is not to show you observe the right or wrong Sabbath. I know you do not. But I merely want to show that your accusation of others is unfounded because God never said “the six days of rest will begin on the first day of the week”. He was not that specific. God doesn't place rules on us to bind us, but to set us free. If for some reason someone cannot adhere to Saturday Sabbath, you make them out to be second rate Christians. I don't think Yeshua would do that, do you?
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 12 2007,04:27) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 11 2007,10:30) Aren't you being just a little silly in trying to keep to your idea?
You misunderstand my intention here. Let me clarify so you will quite being so angry.My purpose is not to “prove” you wrong, but to show that you may not be “right”. Huh? It's like this: it seems that 75% of your 2000+ posts are harping on the Sabbath. You want everyone to see it is evening Friday to evening Saturday. That is fine, no issue here. But again, I showed you verses where there is no stipulation “of the week”.
In other words, if you choose to observe the Jewish day of Sabbath, fine. It is not wrong. But neither can you say it is wrong that others observe a six day labor, 1 day rest schedule. And on that one day, they focus on study, prayer, worship, and praise. That is the true meaning of the Sabbath: it was not meant to restrict people to a certain day of the calendar week but that we constantly set aside one day after six to rest and focus on God.
Let me ask you, why did Yeshua say this?
Mar 2:27 Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
God understands that people must labor to live. Yet he also wants us to rest from our labor and focus on Him. So he patterned the cycle after His days of creation: six days of labor, one day of rest.
But, again, I contend that the specification of “of the week” was left off because God wants us to observe the cycle. I know you disagree, but by telling people they are wrong for not observing Saturday Sabbath, you make the Law a burden as opposed to a love contract between them and God.
Quote The Hebrews keep the Seventh day fromthat time until today. Do you think they know which day the seventh day Sabbath is?
And yes for them, this is where the cycle falls. They have chosen this so they can be consistent with other Jews.Quote EVEN IF the calendar is wrong we are only held accountable for what we know as truth. The calander says Friday is the sixth day saturday is the seventh day and Sunday is the first day. No matter where you are in the world the week is the same. The calander has changed BUT NOT THE WEEK!
No disagreement. But again, no specification “of the week”.Quote Do you think God says to keep the Seventh day Sabbath unto Him and then would NOT let us know when it is?
Yes, He said so: 6 days of labor, 1 day of rest. The rest day is Sabbath.Quote Now it is scripture not Ken's seventh day. You read it for yourself.
Again, no specification “of the week”.Quote What day did Jesus die on? Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Can you get three days and three nights from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning?
He died on the Passover which changes from year to year.
He died on Tuesday at sunset.
Which started Wednessday NIGHT
Thursday NIGHT
Friday Night
Thursday Daylight
Friday Daylight
Saturday Daylight
And was resurrected on Saturday (the Sabbath) at sunset.Is Jesus a liar? Was He in the heart of the earth three days and three nights. OR was He as the Catholics say in the heart of the earth from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning?
Which they lie and say He was resurrected on Sunday their Sabbath. Can you see?
I do not disagree. I was just seeing what you thought. But you say “their Sabbath”. I assume you mean the RCC. Do you do anything that the RCC does? If so, then it must be wrong. Just because the RCC chose Sunday and many other offshoots followed this does not mean it is scipturally invalid. I've shown you as much but I know you disagree.Quote There were two Sabbaths in that week. One Sabbath followed the Passover, the days of unleavened bread See John 19:31. And of course there was the weekly Sabbath. There is NO scripture that say Jesus was resurrected on Sunday. Mary found the Tomb EMPTY. He had risen on the Sabbath.
So if you keep the correct Sabbath day you also keep the day Jesus was resurrected on.
The “correct” Sabbath. Now you say that Yeshua resurrection signifies the “correct” Sabbath. Do you have scripture to back up this claim? Something like “I will rise of the Sabbath”.Again, my intention here is not to show you observe the right or wrong Sabbath. I know you do not. But I merely want to show that your accusation of others is unfounded because God never said “the six days of rest will begin on the first day of the week”. He was not that specific. God doesn't place rules on us to bind us, but to set us free. If for some reason someone cannot adhere to Saturday Sabbath, you make them out to be second rate Christians. I don't think Yeshua would do that, do you?
Kejonn do you believe that the Ten Commandments are for the Jews only?
You contend. I might ask who are you to tell God which day is His Sabbath.
You asked the question I gave SCRIPTURAL answers NOT my answers. But you still “contend” to see it your way.
So once again I say go ahead keep it your way but don't tell me that your way is the way of God when scripture says different.
You deny this scripture?
Exo 16:22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
Exo 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.You deny that following the sixth day GOD said that the next day was HIS SABBATH? What follows six?
OH that's just for Jews. We are all one in Christ.
The Gentiles are grafted into Israel. I know I am. That's what makes me a Spiritual Jew.You asked how long I have been reading the bible. Now I have to ask how long have you been DENYING the bible.
Scripture is right there in front of you!
Still you want to continue with foolish questions to ARGUE not with me but with scripture.
What day did Jesus die? What day was He resurrected on?
You think that was an accident that He was resurrected on the Seventh Day of His Father?
Again do what you want but don't tell me scripture is wrong and you are right.
I gave scripture you gave your contentions, your reasoning.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.Remember to rest once a week
Well, is that what the forth commandment says. Any day is alright but NOT the seventh day Sabbath UNTO THE LORD.
Straight and Narrow…Hmm mm doesn't sound straight and narrow to me changing the law so you can do what you want. Sounds like a wide path keeping this day or that day. One keeping Sunday the other Friday. That's pretty WIDE.
Quote it seems that 75% of your 2000+ posts are harping on the Sabbath. Well which commandment are the children of God breaking. Satan is not so stupid as to think he can easily get you to murder.
IHN&l,
Ken
Kejonn,
Look at the calendar. The first day is Sunday, the 7th day is Sabbath. Do a serch on the web for what the 7th day is called in other languages and that should be proof enough for you.Kejonn,
Since all Scripture was made for teaching us truth, why don't you look and see what happened to the Israelites when they continued to sin against Elohim?We are not permitted to rewrite His laws. We are not permitted to change add to or subtract from His laws.
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 12 2007,02:24) Ken, You get all uptight and act like you are showing us truth in the scripture. I ask you to show me where the Sabbath is evening Friday to evening Saturday according to scripture, and you've yet to do so. All you say is “The bible is a Jewish book” or “look at the calendar”. You practice strict legalism based upon what you believe, but yet you can not substantially back up your beliefs other than using CAPS and appearing to “froth” at the keyboard.
Its obvious that you still do not understand exactly why Yeshua came. He came because he knew people were seeking righteousness by fulfilling the Law, but in turn not understanding what the Law truly signified. The Jews of his day were the case. Like them, you point your finger at “transgressors” and tell them they can't be true. They pointed their finger at Yeshua, and you point your finger at those who I believe to honestly love God. But in doing so, you appoint yourself as judge. Did God appoint you, or is this something you've decided to do on your own?
You assume that if someone doesn't keep Saturday Sabbath, they are not showing they love God. Yet I know many people that have more love in their little toe for God and fellow man who don't observe the Saturday Sabbath. Do to mean to rob them of their sincerity and love of God because you feel that they are not obeying the Sabbath as you feel it is to be obeyed? Yes, I say you, because you still have yet to back up Saturday Sabbath with scripture. Until then, it is you.
People who say they love YHWH and worship on the first day of the week, love themselves more. Hopefully they do it out of ignorance, and not pride. They do not obey Him. They will get hurt over and over untill they come to know Him and the truth.
Kejonn,
Genesis Chapter one teaches that evening and the morning was a day. Evening begins a day.It is obvious you do not know the meaning of fulfill. It means to give full meaning to Not to discontinue.
Y'shua came because we needed Him. The Pharisees were falsly appointed teachers at that time. Paul was a Pharisee. The Pharisees have what is called oral doctrine which to them, superceedes YHWH's law.
Yourself and most religions today teach and believe that it is ok to make up your own doctrine. You say it is ok to do whatever you feel you should. You say YHWH's law is gone. There is much prophecy in Scripture as to what will happen to people who practice their own form of worship.
Y'shua Messiah came to straighted out that mess. He said “follow me.” We are supposed to do the things He did. We are suppose to follow His Father's doctrine like He did.
So you kejonn are the one who does not know why Y'shua came.
Y'shua made it clear that the teachings of men were no profit to us. He made it clear the His life was worth losing for His Father's Torah.
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 12 2007,04:27) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 11 2007,10:30) Aren't you being just a little silly in trying to keep to your idea?
You misunderstand my intention here. Let me clarify so you will quite being so angry.My purpose is not to “prove” you wrong, but to show that you may not be “right”. Huh? It's like this: it seems that 75% of your 2000+ posts are harping on the Sabbath. You want everyone to see it is evening Friday to evening Saturday. That is fine, no issue here. But again, I showed you verses where there is no stipulation “of the week”.
In other words, if you choose to observe the Jewish day of Sabbath, fine. It is not wrong. But neither can you say it is wrong that others observe a six day labor, 1 day rest schedule. And on that one day, they focus on study, prayer, worship, and praise. That is the true meaning of the Sabbath: it was not meant to restrict people to a certain day of the calendar week but that we constantly set aside one day after six to rest and focus on God.
Let me ask you, why did Yeshua say this?
Mar 2:27 Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
God understands that people must labor to live. Yet he also wants us to rest from our labor and focus on Him. So he patterned the cycle after His days of creation: six days of labor, one day of rest.
But, again, I contend that the specification of “of the week” was left off because God wants us to observe the cycle. I know you disagree, but by telling people they are wrong for not observing Saturday Sabbath, you make the Law a burden as opposed to a love contract between them and God.
Quote The Hebrews keep the Seventh day fromthat time until today. Do you think they know which day the seventh day Sabbath is?
And yes for them, this is where the cycle falls. They have chosen this so they can be consistent with other Jews.Quote EVEN IF the calendar is wrong we are only held accountable for what we know as truth. The calander says Friday is the sixth day saturday is the seventh day and Sunday is the first day. No matter where you are in the world the week is the same. The calander has changed BUT NOT THE WEEK!
No disagreement. But again, no specification “of the week”.Quote Do you think God says to keep the Seventh day Sabbath unto Him and then would NOT let us know when it is?
Yes, He said so: 6 days of labor, 1 day of rest. The rest day is Sabbath.Quote Now it is scripture not Ken's seventh day. You read it for yourself.
Again, no specification “of the week”.Quote What day did Jesus die on? Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Can you get three days and three nights from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning?
He died on the Passover which changes from year to year.
He died on Tuesday at sunset.
Which started Wednessday NIGHT
Thursday NIGHT
Friday Night
Thursday Daylight
Friday Daylight
Saturday Daylight
And was resurrected on Saturday (the Sabbath) at sunset.Is Jesus a liar? Was He in the heart of the earth three days and three nights. OR was He as the Catholics say in the heart of the earth from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning?
Which they lie and say He was resurrected on Sunday their Sabbath. Can you see?
I do not disagree. I was just seeing what you thought. But you say “their Sabbath”. I assume you mean the RCC. Do you do anything that the RCC does? If so, then it must be wrong. Just because the RCC chose Sunday and many other offshoots followed this does not mean it is scipturally invalid. I've shown you as much but I know you disagree.Quote There were two Sabbaths in that week. One Sabbath followed the Passover, the days of unleavened bread See John 19:31. And of course there was the weekly Sabbath. There is NO scripture that say Jesus was resurrected on Sunday. Mary found the Tomb EMPTY. He had risen on the Sabbath.
So if you keep the correct Sabbath day you also keep the day Jesus was resurrected on.
The “correct” Sabbath. Now you say that Yeshua resurrection signifies the “correct” Sabbath. Do you have scripture to back up this claim? Something like “I will rise of the Sabbath”.Again, my intention here is not to show you observe the right or wrong Sabbath. I know you do not. But I merely want to show that your accusation of others is unfounded because God never said “the six days of rest will begin on the first day of the week”. He was not that specific. God doesn't place rules on us to bind us, but to set us free. If for some reason someone cannot adhere to Saturday Sabbath, you make them out to be second rate Christians. I don't think Yeshua would do that, do you?
WHAT?! Can you get three days and three nights from Friday to Sunday? The RCC did nothing wrong?!Mat 12:39 But he answered them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
Mat 12:40 For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.This was the sign that Jesus gave that HE was the Messiah!
Three days and three nights not from Friday to Sunday morning.
Let's see do i worship Mary, no. Do I kneel before men, No! Do I believe in the Trinity, NO! Do I believe in their Sabbath, NO! Do I pray to saints, NO! Do I call them father, NO!
I don't know of any truth that they have. Not even that Jesus is the Son of god because they turn right arouns and say Jesus IS God!
So NO! I don't believe anything the Harlot has, YOU?
And I'm not angry, but I am upset that you would deny scripture to keep the Harlot's false doctrines. But your not alone the path is WIDE and there are MANY that are on it.
There is nothing more I can do. I wish I could shake the dust off my feet but HE won't let me. I'll let you ponder as to Why?
Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 11 2007,12:03) Kejonn do you believe that the Ten Commandments are for the Jews only?
Yes and no. Who were they given to? The children of Israel. A specific and chosen race. They were not given to Gentiles. When you start justifying yourself under the Law then you have placed yourself under the Law and not grace. Your choice. But Yeshua came to show you the Law was not complete because people merely served it without truly knowing the Law.Here, I'll show you:
Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
Now of course Yeshua did not mean just the 10 Commandments but the whole Law. So why do you not follow the Mitzvot? After all, can you show me where the 10 Commandments are the only applicable Laws for Gentiles? Good luck. If you place yourself under the Law, you must be under all of the Law. Not just the 10 Commandments, all of it. There are 613 Mitzvot BTW. Talk to you in a few months when you've learned them all.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?
Gal 2:15 “We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles;
Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
Gal 2:17 “But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be!
Gal 2:18 “For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor.
Gal 2:19 “For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.
Gal 2:20 “I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
Gal 2:21 “I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”This is what you do. You concern your life with living to the letter of the Law (but not all, just the 10 Commandments), so you have now placed yourself under the Law. Yet since you believe that you are justified by keeping the 10 Commandments, you have likely been transgressing the remainder of the Law.
I do not disagree that the Law can be a guideline for our lives, and should be. I also agree that our ability to live by it can is a strong indication of our love to God and His Son. But it appears that some people try to become Jews and seek righteousness in it. Why did Christ die? Did he die just for the Gentiles? After all, the Jews already had the Law. But he died for all, Jew and Gentile.
Quote You contend. I might ask who are you to tell God which day is His Sabbath.
No one. Yet you have yet to show me that the Sabbath is Saturday according to the Bible. It says 6 days of labor, 1 day of rest. Again, no where do we see “the six days start on the first day of the week”. I have challenged you to show me this and you have fallen short. So your false accusation holds no power over me because you contend that the weekly Sabbath is a specific calendar day. Perhaps it is but the Bible is not that specific.Quote You asked the question I gave SCRIPTURAL answers NOT my answers. But you still “contend” to see it your way.
No contention. I've shown that there was not qualifier as to the calendar day of the week. Want more specifics? Here ya go:Exd 12:18 'In the first {month,} on the fourteenth day of the month at evening, you shall eat unleavened bread, until the twenty-first day of the month at evening.
Exd 40:2 “On the first day of the first month you shall set up the tabernacle of the tent of meeting.
Lev 16:29 “{This} shall be a permanent statute for you: in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall humble your souls and not do any work, whether the native, or the alien who sojourns among you;
Lev 23:5 'In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight is the LORD'S Passover.
Lev 23:6 'Then on the fifteenth day of the same month there is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the LORD; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread.
Lev 23:39 'On exactly the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you have gathered in the crops of the land, you shall celebrate the feast of the LORD for seven days, with a rest on the first day and a rest on the eighth day.
Lev 25:9 'You shall then sound a ram's horn abroad on the tenth day of the seventh month; on the day of atonement you shall sound a horn all through your land.
Num 29:1 'Now in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, you shall also have a holy convocation; you shall do no laborious work. It will be to you a day for blowing trumpets.
There are many more, but I think you get the idea.
Quote So once again I say go ahead keep it your way but don't tell me that your way is the way of God when scripture says different. You deny this scripture?
Exo 16:22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
Exo 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
On the sixth day of what? Sixth day of the month? Sixth day of the cycle of seven days? Does not say. But one could contend it was the sixth day of the 7 day cycle.Quote You deny that following the sixth day GOD said that the next day was HIS SABBATH? What follows six?
Silliness. You've still yet to show me sixth day of the weekQuote OH that's just for Jews. We are all one in Christ.
The Gentiles are grafted into Israel. I know I am. That's what makes me a Spiritual Jew.
If you are a Spiritual Jew then you must adhere to the Mitzvot. Plain and simple. You have willingly placed yourself under the Law for your righteousness.Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are unde
r a curse; for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM.”
Gal 3:11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.”
Gal 3:12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM.”Did you get that? ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW. The Book of the Law is the Torah. Therefore, you must now obey all or you have transgressed. Not only the 10 Commandments, but all of the Law. You cannot pick just those 10. Show me otherwise.
Quote You asked how long I have been reading the bible. Now I have to ask how long have you been DENYING the bible.
I don't deny the Bible. I'm just not a Jew. Spiritual or otherwise. I try to live by that which the Bible teaches to show my love for God and glorify Him, but I do not place myself under the Law, lest I place Christ back on the tree.Quote Scripture is right there in front of you! Still you want to continue with foolish questions to ARGUE not with me but with scripture.
I am not arguing. I'm just showing you that as you judge others, so too will you be judged. And since you seek righteousness in the 10 Commandments, you have placed yourself willingly under the Law and will be judged under all of it. All of the Mitzvot.Quote What day did Jesus die? What day was He resurrected on? You think that was an accident that He was resurrected on the Seventh Day of His Father?
Again do what you want but don't tell me scripture is wrong and you are right.
I agreed with you on his death and resurrection. But since your so bent on proving only you are right and righteous, you completely missed it.Quote I gave scripture you gave your contentions, your reasoning. 2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Paul wrote to the Gentiles. He was not speaking of Gentiles placing themselves under the Law. He rebuked others when they tried. If Paul were alive today and posting on this board, I wonder who he might be rebuking right now?Quote Remember to rest once a week Well, is that what the forth commandment says. Any day is alright but NOT the seventh day Sabbath UNTO THE LORD.
Straight and Narrow…Hmm mm doesn't sound straight and narrow to me changing the law so you can do what you want. Sounds like a wide path keeping this day or that day. One keeping Sunday the other Friday. That's pretty WIDE.
and YES.
As I said, good luck on studying the Mitzvot. You have placed yourself under the Law so you must keep all of it. Therein you must strive to find your righteousness. I will not do so. I live by grace through faith and know I am weak while he is strong. I will do my best to glorify God.Quote (Laurel @ Aug. 11 2007,12:54) Kejonn,
Look at the calendar. The first day is Sunday, the 7th day is Sabbath. Do a serch on the web for what the 7th day is called in other languages and that should be proof enough for you.
Laurel,
I know which day is the observed Sabbath. My point in relating to Ken is that he beats this into people and thinks that he is more righteous than they because he observes the Sabbath. I personally do not have an issue with it and it is something that I will be looking to change since I have left the Baptist Church anyways.But I've seen Ken point his virtual finger at too many people over this issue to continue to ignore it. He has been very hurtful in his approach and this just tells me he has become more than a spiritual Jew, he has become a spiritual Pharisee. He could encourage in grace and love — as Christ would have done — but he insists on a different, much harsher approach. So it is no wonder people stiffen their spine and start getting offended.
I am not offended. I am saddened that a man who could do much for the cause of Christ instead turns many away with his brazen approach.
Quote (Laurel @ Aug. 11 2007,12:57) Kejonn,
Since all Scripture was made for teaching us truth, why don't you look and see what happened to the Israelites when they continued to sin against Elohim?We are not permitted to rewrite His laws. We are not permitted to change add to or subtract from His laws.
But we, as Gentiles, are not to strive to place ourselves under the Law either. One should not be eager to place themselves under the curse. This is what I believe:2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
But I was not born under the Law, I am not a Jew, but I have been reborn to Christ. Therefore I strive to follow those things that are taught in all of the Bible, but I don't seek my righteousness in doing so. My righteousness is as filthy rags and I must rely on Christ to show me the way.
Quote (Laurel @ Aug. 11 2007,13:11) Kejonn,
Genesis Chapter one teaches that evening and the morning was a day. Evening begins a day.It is obvious you do not know the meaning of fulfill. It means to give full meaning to Not to discontinue.
Never said it did. But I do not seek my righteousness in the Law.Do you adhere to all of the Law? Not just the 10 Commandments, but all of it? If so, then that is your choice. You have decided to place yourself under it, and by it will you be judged.
I, on the other hand, will not. My righteousness is not found in the Law, but in Christ. I can strive to do those things, but I will not patten my life after the Law. I am a Christian, not a Jew. My life is patterned after Christ (or I strive to do so).
Quote Y'shua came because we needed Him. The Pharisees were falsly appointed teachers at that time. Paul was a Pharisee. The Pharisees have what is called oral doctrine which to them, superceedes YHWH's law.
Sure that was it?Jhn 5:39 “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
Jhn 5:40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.No, rather they were doing what you may be in danger of doing. I am not saying you are, but you need to be careful. People can get wrapped up in serving the Law to be justified but be devoid of love. Love for God and man comes before all of the Law.
Quote Yourself and most religions today teach and believe that it is ok to make up your own doctrine. You say it is ok to do whatever you feel you should. You say YHWH's law is gone. There is much prophecy in Scripture as to what will happen to people who practice their own form of worship.
Wrong. You falsely accuse. I have made up no doctrine although I will admit to blindly following many in the past. I'm striving to rid myself of these but it is not an overnight process after 20 years.My issue with the approach of some on here is that there is no love in it. They say they do it for love, but I can assure you that the reader does not see it. It is such an approach that turns people away from Christ and to another religion, or none at all.
What I am about to say may be hurtful but at least I warn you: both you and Ken come off as being righteous because you follow the Sabbath. It would be one thing to encourage observance of the Sabbath and tell people why, but you instead use words like “you have no fellowship with God” and “harlot”. Yeshua did not talk to like this to people, unless they were the Jews who sought righteousness in their own selves and in turn accused Yeshua of transgressions. I don't think manu of the people that have been verbally flogged by you and Ken have such an attitude. They are here seeking for truth and you and Ken use hateful approaches. You may not feel this is true but I've seen enough legalism in my life to recognize it. And my greatest gift is discernment, so I have a knack for spotting those who have a “holier than thou” attitude. Even the Son of God did not walk around thus.
Quote Y'shua Messiah came to straighted out that mess. He said “follow me.” We are supposed to do the things He did. We are suppose to follow His Father's doctrine like He did.
Yes, we are to follow Christ and pattern our lives after him. And we should also listen to the words he said.Quote So you kejonn are the one who does not know why Y'shua came.
Au contraire. I know it was for love. The love that God had for us, the love that Yeshua had as he laid down his life for his friends (us). It was not so we could put ourselves back under the Law and seek righteousness in it.Quote Y'shua made it clear that the teachings of men were no profit to us. He made it clear the His life was worth losing for His Father's Torah.
Do you keep all of the Torah Laurel? Truly? I will look into the first 5 books and test you in the future then. Please be honest when I ask you.Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 11 2007,14:13) WHAT?! Can you get three days and three nights from Friday to Sunday? The RCC did nothing wrong?!
**sigh** You are so intent on proving you are right that you totally missed that I agreed with you an the death and resurrection of Yeshua. But you did not see it because you have blinded yourself with a sort of self righteous rage.And I have many, many disagreements with the RCC. Did I say they did nothing wrong? No. But again, you see what you want from my response because you are bound and determined to be right. That is one thing I have noticed in your various posts: you are always right. I'll have to read some more, but no matter what someone posts to you, you find fault. This is another reason I assume that you are a spiritual Pharisee.
Quote Let's see do i worship Mary, no. Do I kneel before men, No! Do I believe in the Trinity, NO! Do I believe in their Sabbath, NO! Do I pray to saints, NO! Do I call them father, NO! I don't know of any truth that they have. Not even that Jesus is the Son of god because they turn right arouns and say Jesus IS God!
I have not studied the RCC enough to agree or disagree with you. But if I were to find one thing that you and the RCC agreed with, would you change to be unlike them? Even if it was scriptural? I hope not.Quote So NO! I don't believe anything the Harlot has, YOU?
I don't study the “harlot”. Let me ask you, do you know any Catholics? I hope you don't call them “children of the Harlot”. I'd rather hope you would help them see where they were wrong but do so in the spirit of Yeshua. Not a hateful, self-righteous “I'm right, you're wrong” attitude.Quote And I'm not angry, but I am upset that you would deny scripture to keep the Harlot's false doctrines. But your not alone the path is WIDE and there are MANY that are on it.
And I am saddened that have turned so many away with your responses because they show very little love and patience. You could be so effective but instead you do harm. That is why I typically do not respond to your posts. Negativity sucks the life out of me, and whether you want to see it or not, your posts are full of it.Quote There is nothing more I can do. I wish I could shake the dust off my feet but HE won't let me. I'll let you ponder as to Why?
The dust does not come from me. The dust is your own making. You seek righteousness in the Law yet you only speak of the 10 Commandments. And when people come on here who have been in RCC spin-off religions for years and need help in understanding the falseness of the many doctrines, you flog them for their beliefs. This is what makes my heart heavy.Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 12 2007,08:38) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 11 2007,12:03) Kejonn do you believe that the Ten Commandments are for the Jews only?
Yes and no. Who were they given to? The children of Israel. A specific and chosen race. They were not given to Gentiles. When you start justifying yourself under the Law then you have placed yourself under the Law and not grace. Your choice. But Yeshua came to show you the Law was not complete because people merely served it without truly knowing the Law.Here, I'll show you:
Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
Now of course Yeshua did not mean just the 10 Commandments but the whole Law. So why do you not follow the Mitzvot? After all, can you show me where the 10 Commandments are the only applicable Laws for Gentiles? Good luck. If you place yourself under the Law, you must be under all of the Law. Not just the 10 Commandments, all of it. There are 613 Mitzvot BTW. Talk to you in a few months when you've learned them all.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?
Gal 2:15 “We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles;
Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
Gal 2:17 “But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be!
Gal 2:18 “For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor.
Gal 2:19 “For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.
Gal 2:20 “I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
Gal 2:21 “I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”This is what you do. You concern your life with living to the letter of the Law (but not all, just the 10 Commandments), so you have now placed yourself under the Law. Yet since you believe that you are justified by keeping the 10 Commandments, you have likely been transgressing the remainder of the Law.
I do not disagree that the Law can be a guideline for our lives, and should be. I also agree that our ability to live by it can is a strong indication of our love to God and His Son. But it appears that some people try to become Jews and seek righteousness in it. Why did Christ die? Did he die just for the Gentiles? After all, the Jews already had the Law. But he died for all, Jew and Gentile.
Quote You contend. I might ask who are you to tell God which day is His Sabbath.
No one. Yet you have yet to show me that the Sabbath is Saturday according to the Bible. It says 6 days of labor, 1 day of rest. Again, no where do we see “the six days start on the first day of the week”. I have challenged you to show me this and you have fallen short. So your false accusation holds no power over me because you contend that the weekly Sabbath is a specific calendar day. Perhaps it is but the Bible is not that specific.Quote You asked the question I gave SCRIPTURAL answers NOT my answers. But you still “contend” to see it your way.
No contention. I've shown that there was not qualifier as to the calendar day of the week. Want more specifics? Here ya go:Exd 12:18 'In the first {month,} on the fourteenth day of the month at evening, you shall eat unleavened bread, until the twenty-first day of the month at evening.
Exd 40:2 “On the first day of the first month you shall set up the tabernacle of the tent of meeting.
Lev 16:29 “{This} shall be a permanent statute for you: in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall humble your souls and not do any work, whether the native, or the alien who sojourns among you;
Lev 23:5 'In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight is the LORD'S Passover.
Lev 23:6 'Then on the fifteenth day of the same month there is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the LORD; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread.
Lev 23:39 'On exactly the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you have gathered in the crops of the land, you shall celebrate the feast of the LORD for seven days, with a rest on the first day and a rest on the eighth day.
Lev 25:9 'You shall then sound a ram's horn abroad on the tenth day of the seventh month; on the day of atonement you shall sound a horn all through your land.
Num 29:1 'Now in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, you shall also have a holy convocation; you shall do no laborious work. It will be to you a day for blowing trumpets.
There are many more, but I think you get the idea.
Quote So once again I say go ahead keep it your way but don't tell me that your way is the way of God when scripture says different. You deny this scripture?
Exo 16:22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
Exo 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
On the sixth day of what? Sixth day of the month? Sixth day of the cycle of seven days? Does not say. But one could contend it was the sixth day of the 7 day cycle.Quote You deny that following the sixth day GOD said that the next day was HIS SABBATH? What follows six?
Silliness. You've still yet to show me sixth day of the weekQuote OH that's just for Jews. We are all one in Christ.
The Gentiles are grafted into Israel. I know I am. That's what makes me a Spiritual Jew.
If you are a Spiritual Jew then you must adhere to the Mitzvot. Plain and simple. You have willingly placed yourself under the Law for your righteousness.Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM.”
Gal 3:11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.”
Gal 3:12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM.”Did you get that? ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW. The Book of the Law is the Torah. Therefore, you must now obey all or you have transgressed. Not only the 10 Commandments, but all of the Law. You cannot pick just those 10. Show me otherwise.
Quote You asked how long I have been reading the bible. Now I have to ask how long have you been DENYING the bible.
I don't deny the Bible. I'm just not a Jew. Spiritual or otherwise. I try to live by that which the Bible teaches to show my love for God and glorify Him, but I do not place myself under the Law, lest I place Christ back on the tree.Quote Scripture is right there in front of you! Still you want to continue with foolish questions to ARGUE not with me but with scripture.
I am not arguing. I'm just showing you that as you judge others, so too will you be judged. And since you seek righteousness in the 10 Commandments, you have placed yourself willingly under the Law and will be judged under all of it. All of the Mitzvot.Quote What day did Jesus die? What day was He resurrected on? You think that was an accident that He was resurrected on the Seventh Day of His Father?
Again do what you want but don't tell me scripture is wrong and you are right.
I agreed with you on his death and resurrection. But since your so bent on proving only you are right and righteous, you completely missed it.Quote I gave scripture you gave your contentions, your reasoning. 2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Paul wrote to the Gentiles. He was not speaking of Gentiles placing themselves under the Law. He rebuked others when they tried. If Paul were alive today and posting on this board, I wonder who he might be rebuking right now?Quote Remember to rest once a week Well, is that what the forth commandment says. Any day is alright but NOT the seventh day Sabbath UNTO THE LORD.
Straight and Narrow…Hmm mm doesn't sound straight and narrow to me changing the law so you can do what you want. Sounds like a wide path keeping this day or that day. One keeping Sunday the other Friday. That's pretty WIDE.
and YES.
As I said, good luck on studying the Mitzvot. You have placed yourself under the Law so you must keep all of it. Therein you must strive to find your righteousness. I will not do so. I live by grace through faith and know I am weak while he is strong. I will do my best to glorify God.
Since you don't listen to scripture and now I'm a spiritual Pharisee I see no point to give any more scripture what good would it do?
I gave scripture you want to argue that we don't know when the Seventh day is. And you are not the first to try that there is a long line in front of you.
You are right I'm here to point my finger at people and say “come out of her MY people”.
You believe that the Trinity Doctrine of the catholic church is false, you do well. However is this the only lie that the Harlot has spread? No it is not her lie about the forth Commandment is far worse. She has changed the law of God and God's people believe her just as they once believed in the Trinity.
Scripture does not say keep nine of my laws and one of yours.
Scripture does not say any or every day is the Sabbath. Scripture says there remains a Sabbath rest as God rested for the people of God.You want to say that the law was given to the Jews so the law is for the Jews. I have given scripture that shows a separation of the sacrificial law and the Law of God. But God's children want to believe what man has taught them instead of His word, much as they once believed in man's teaching of the Trinity.
The Sabbath was made for MAN the Savior said. When God rested their were no Jews. Do you think God needed to rest?
No He gave an example and on what day. Of course there were no calendars in the beginning just the weekly cycleSo again I do point my finger at YOU and others and anyone who refuses to keep God's law. Am I any better for obeying God YOU BET! Is a obedient son better off than a rebellious son.
You sit in judgment with NO scripture for your argument only speculation and foolish arguments such as which day is the seventh.
I can't say it enough YES I point my finger and say “come out of her MY people”
When God says remember the Sabbath HE is saying remember the seventh day. There were NO names for the days ONLY the Seventh day had a name HIS SABBATH.2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; *reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine*.2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.IHN&L,
Ken
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 12 2007,08:57) Quote (Laurel @ Aug. 11 2007,12:57) Kejonn,
Since all Scripture was made for teaching us truth, why don't you look and see what happened to the Israelites when they continued to sin against Elohim?We are not permitted to rewrite His laws. We are not permitted to change add to or subtract from His laws.
But we, as Gentiles, are not to strive to place ourselves under the Law either. One should not be eager to place themselves under the curse. This is what I believe:2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
But I was not born under the Law, I am not a Jew, but I have been reborn to Christ. Therefore I strive to follow those things that are taught in all of the Bible, but I don't seek my righteousness in doing so. My righteousness is as filthy rags and I must rely on Christ to show me the way.
You had no sin? You didn't sin ever? Sin is trangression of the law 1John 3:4. You say you were not born under the law.If you believe in God then you were born under the law of sin for ALL have sined and come short of the glory of God who has no sin.
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