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Yes, the gospel is crack-pottery to those who are perishing.
And let's face it, you believe you are perishing too, so no argument from both sides on this one.1 Corinthians
“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him…
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 07 2010,12:14) Yes, the gospel is crack-pottery to those who are perishing.
And let's face it, you believe you are perishing too, so no argument from both sides on this one.1 Corinthians
“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him…
What god?Stuart
Stu,Mar. wrote:[/quote]
Hi Stu,You said:
Quote Why could it not be a byproduct of some other adaptation that does have an advantage? Well, maybe. But it sounds doubtful that an appreciation for art would have anything at all to do with the survival of any species.
You said:
Quote This certainly explains the popularity of lotteries, UFO sightings, Dan Brown or astrology. While I can not speak for Christians as a whole, it seems to me that all of these things contradict the teachings in the Bible.
Lotteries: “Seek first the Kingdom of God…”
UFO sightings: The Bible doesn't necessarily say there aren't other fleshly beings out there, but we're expecting Jesus arriving on the clouds in all his glory, not Klingons.
Dan Brown: The Da Vinci Code caused more than just a few Christians to be upset. A definitely different thought of Jesus than what we learn from the Bible.
Astrology: Stictly forbidden in the Bible.
As far as the rest of your post, I get it. You say God is like the boogey-man children are told about to keep them in their beds at night. Except God works with adults, too. Right? Not for me. I already told you God helped me before I even believed He existed. I don't follow Him in some hope of living forever, it might be a case of too little, too late for me. I follow Him because I deeply love him with all of my heart. Like the feelings of youthful first love.
Which brings me to Elizabeth's question about love.
You said:
Quote Aside from the obvious advantages for genes of expressing sexual love, you love family members close to you who carry many genes in common with you, and you love friends who support you (and thus help your survival sexual love? You know there is no need for love in reproduction.
And do you think fish that swim in schools for protection “love” each other? Do they “love” their children by laying eggs and abandoning them?
While I sincerely appreciate you actually responding in this post instead of telling me to pipe down until I “know” something, you have to admit, this is a lame answer to explain why we feel love.
peace and LOVE,
mikeP.S. All this talk about love got me thinking about reproduction. Way, way back in evolution, how did dna mutate into both male and female counterparts at the same time, so they could reproduce?
Mike
Quote it sounds doubtful that an appreciation for art would have anything at all to do with the survival of any species.
It is not doubtful to me. It is a very plausible explanation. Do you have an alternative one?Quote This certainly explains the popularity of lotteries, UFO sightings, Dan Brown or astrology.
While I can not speak for Christians as a whole, it seems to me that all of these things contradict the teachings in the Bible.
Lotteries: “Seek first the Kingdom of God…”
UFO sightings: The Bible doesn't necessarily say there aren't other fleshly beings out there, but we're expecting Jesus arriving on the clouds in all his glory, not Klingons.
Dan Brown: The Da Vinci Code caused more than just a few Christians to be upset. A definitely different thought of Jesus than what we learn from the Bible.
Astrology: Stictly forbidden in the Bible.
Remember the point is not whether each of these is “true” or “evil”, it is why do humans fall for them.As far as the rest of your post, I get it. You say God is like the boogey-man children are told about to keep them in their beds at night.
Well maybe some children. But it is just the fact that adults who are god-deluded talk about their Imaginary Friend at all.Quote Except God works with adults, too. Right? Not for me. I already told you God helped me before I even believed He existed. I don't follow Him in some hope of living forever, it might be a case of too little, too late for me. I follow Him because I deeply love him with all of my heart. Like the feelings of youthful first love.
That might be your rationale, but is it the cause of believing in things that aren’t really there?Quote sexual love? You know there is no need for love in reproduction.
Well there is no need for love in anything, is there? However the sentiment and the actions motivated by love have advantages for survival and reproduction, unquestionably.Quote And do you think fish that swim in schools for protection “love” each other? Do they “love” their children by laying eggs and abandoning them?
And in fact many newly hatched reptiles have to run away fast to avoid being eaten by their parents. What is your point? That love is a mammalian adaptation?Quote While I sincerely appreciate you actually responding in this post instead of telling me to pipe down until I “know” something, you have to admit, this is a lame answer to explain why we feel love.
I think lame is when you call something lame without having a better explanation.Quote P.S. All this talk about love got me thinking about reproduction. Way, way back in evolution, how did dna mutate into both male and female counterparts at the same time, so they could reproduce?
The only difference (to take humans as the example) is in the pair of sex chromosomes. Everything else is the same for each gender. We are talking about a difference of something like 80 genes out of a total of 30,000. The origins of sexual reproduction remain something of a mystery, but sex was around hundreds of millions of years before humans were.Do you have an explanation for gender? Does it account for hermaphrodism?
Stuart
Attempt two:
Mike
Quote it sounds doubtful that an appreciation for art would have anything at all to do with the survival of any species.
It is not doubtful to me. It is a very plausible explanation. Do you have an alternative one?Quote This certainly explains the popularity of lotteries, UFO sightings, Dan Brown or astrology.
While I can not speak for Christians as a whole, it seems to me that all of these things contradict the teachings in the Bible.
Lotteries: “Seek first the Kingdom of God…”
UFO sightings: The Bible doesn't necessarily say there aren't other fleshly beings out there, but we're expecting Jesus arriving on the clouds in all his glory, not Klingons.
Dan Brown: The Da Vinci Code caused more than just a few Christians to be upset. A definitely different thought of Jesus than what we learn from the Bible.
Astrology: Stictly forbidden in the Bible.
Remember the point is not whether each of these is “true” or “evil”, it is why do humans fall for them.Quote As far as the rest of your post, I get it. You say God is like the boogey-man children are told about to keep them in their beds at night.
Well maybe some children. But it is just the fact that adults who are god-deluded talk about their Imaginary Friend at all.Quote Except God works with adults, too. Right? Not for me. I already told you God helped me before I even believed He existed. I don't follow Him in some hope of living forever, it might be a case of too little, too late for me. I follow Him because I deeply love him with all of my heart. Like the feelings of youthful first love.
That might be your rationale, but is it the cause of believing in things that aren’t really there?Quote sexual love? You know there is no need for love in reproduction.
Well there is no need for love in anything, is there? However the sentiment and the actions motivated by love have advantages for survival and reproduction, unquestionably.Quote And do you think fish that swim in schools for protection “love” each other? Do they “love” their children by laying eggs and abandoning them?
And in fact many newly hatched reptiles have to run away fast to avoid being eaten by their parents. What is your point? That love is a mammalian adaptation?Quote While I sincerely appreciate you actually responding in this post instead of telling me to pipe down until I “know” something, you have to admit, this is a lame answer to explain why we feel love.
I think lame is when you call something lame without having a better explanation.Quote P.S. All this talk about love got me thinking about reproduction. Way, way back in evolution, how did dna mutate into both male and female counterparts at the same time, so they could reproduce?
The only difference (to take humans as the example) is in the pair of sex chromosomes. Everything else is the same for each gender. We are talking about a difference of something like 80 genes out of a total of 30,000. The origins of sexual reproduction remain something of a mystery, but sex was around hundreds of millions of years before humans were.Do you have an explanation for gender? Does it account for hermaphrodism?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Mar. 07 2010,12:23) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 07 2010,12:14) Yes, the gospel is crack-pottery to those who are perishing.
And let's face it, you believe you are perishing too, so no argument from both sides on this one.1 Corinthians
“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him…
What god?Stuart
Your jumping the gun.You first need to believe that God exists before you can understand anything about him.
If I didn't believe that there were other galaxies, then it would be a bit pointless arguing over a particular galaxy.
You need to start on first base and progress from there.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 07 2010,17:16) Quote (Stu @ Mar. 07 2010,12:09) We are both apes t8,
Are you trying to be friends?
No, just trying to convince you that you are human.Stuart
t8
Quote You first need to believe that God exists before you can understand anything about him.
Why? I don’t need to believe there are black holes before I can understand the effects they explain.You already have some understanding of the Roman god Jupiter, but does that mean you accept his existence in reality?
Stuart
Quote Well there is no need for love in anything, is there? Pardon the interruption Stuart, just for clarification, could you laymen your thoughts on this one.
Thank you in advance.
Hi Stu,
I said:
Quote
it sounds doubtful that an appreciation for art would have anything at all to do with the survival of any species.You said:
Quote It is not doubtful to me. It is a very plausible explanation. Do you have an alternative one? Yes Stu, I do. God created us with an appreciation for fine things in an effort to give our lives more meaning and a better quality than to just “survive”.
You said:
Quote Well there is no need for love in anything, is there? However the sentiment and the actions motivated by love have advantages for survival and reproduction, unquestionably. no need for love in anything? Why then did it evolve?
And I alreadly state that love isn't required for reproduction, and it doesn't offer one single advantage to reprodution as you claim.You said:
Quote And in fact many newly hatched reptiles have to run away fast to avoid being eaten by their parents. What is your point? That love is a mammalian adaptation? No. My point is again that love is not needed for a species survival. Why does it exist?
You said:
Quote We are talking about a difference of something like 80 genes out of a total of 30,000. So 80 genes had to “mutate” diferently at exactly the same time for sexual reprodution to begin to take place. I could see maybe one gene mutating this way to make a male and one mutating that way to make a female, but 80 all at once?
You said:
Quote The origins of sexual reproduction remain something of a mystery, Only to you, Stu. God created them male and female. Not so much of a mystery to me.
You said:
Quote but sex was around hundreds of millions of years before humans were. This is one of those “Discovery Channel” statements that make me laugh so hard. Hundreds of millions of years? Are you sure it wasn't only 199 million years?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 08 2010,04:27) Hi Stu, I said:
Quote
it sounds doubtful that an appreciation for art would have anything at all to do with the survival of any species.You said:
Quote It is not doubtful to me. It is a very plausible explanation. Do you have an alternative one? Yes Stu, I do. God created us with an appreciation for fine things in an effort to give our lives more meaning and a better quality than to just “survive”.
You said:
Quote Well there is no need for love in anything, is there? However the sentiment and the actions motivated by love have advantages for survival and reproduction, unquestionably. no need for love in anything? Why then did it evolve?
And I alreadly state that love isn't required for reproduction, and it doesn't offer one single advantage to reprodution as you claim.You said:
Quote And in fact many newly hatched reptiles have to run away fast to avoid being eaten by their parents. What is your point? That love is a mammalian adaptation? No. My point is again that love is not needed for a species survival. Why does it exist?
You said:
Quote We are talking about a difference of something like 80 genes out of a total of 30,000. So 80 genes had to “mutate” diferently at exactly the same time for sexual reprodution to begin to take place. I could see maybe one gene mutating this way to make a male and one mutating that way to make a female, but 80 all at once?
You said:
Quote The origins of sexual reproduction remain something of a mystery, Only to you, Stu. God created them male and female. Not so much of a mystery to me.
You said:
Quote but sex was around hundreds of millions of years before humans were. This is one of those “Discovery Channel” statements that make me laugh so hard. Hundreds of millions of years? Are you sure it wasn't only 199 million years?
peace and love,
mike
Stu has to believe in “Synchronistic Random Mutations” which do not exist.80 mutations all at once exactly in line with 80 mutations to another gender.
Stu, doesn't understand that in order for SEXUAL reproduction to occur you need both a capable and fertile male and female of the same species at the same time in genetic history.
Quote (Stu @ Mar. 07 2010,20:07) Why? I don’t need to believe there are black holes before I can understand the effects they explain
There you go. Many people also believe in God in the same way. Although it pays to have more than that.Quote (Stu @ Mar. 07 2010,12:23) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 07 2010,12:14) Yes, the gospel is crack-pottery to those who are perishing.
And let's face it, you believe you are perishing too, so no argument from both sides on this one.1 Corinthians
“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him…
What god?Stuart
God.Mike
Stu: It is not doubtful to me. It is a very plausible explanation. Do you have an alternative one?
Quote Yes Stu, I do. God created us with an appreciation for fine things in an effort to give our lives more meaning and a better quality than to just “survive”.
That is a description, not an explanation. I gave you an explanation.Quote no need for love in anything? Why then did it evolve?
Stop. Think. There is no NEED for it, but if you do have it then it is ADVANTAGEOUS.Quote And I alreadly state that love isn't required for reproduction, and it doesn't offer one single advantage to reprodution as you claim.
If you feel love for your partner you are more likely to stick around and support the other parent in the job of parenting, which will have made a massive difference in the past, for example in nomadic life.Stu: We are talking about a difference of something like 80 genes out of a total of 30,000.
Quote So 80 genes had to “mutate” diferently at exactly the same time for sexual reprodution to begin to take place. I could see maybe one gene mutating this way to make a male and one mutating that way to make a female, but 80 all at once?
Just as well natural history has not limited itself to “what you can see” then.It is the logical fallacy of strawman to say that the genes all had to “mutate at the same time”. WHY would they have to? Because you cannot see how it could be otherwise?
Stu: The origins of sexual reproduction remain something of a mystery,
Quote Only to you, Stu. God created them male and female. Not so much of a mystery to me.
Once again. Description, not explanation. You are inventing a name to go with the mystery, that is the only difference. If you could really explain HOW gender difference emerged then I would be interested. But you cannot, and yet hypocritically you accuse me of not being able to explain it when you cannot either.Stu: but sex was around hundreds of millions of years before humans were.
Quote This is one of those “Discovery Channel” statements that make me laugh so hard. Hundreds of millions of years? Are you sure it wasn't only 199 million years?
1000 million to 1200 million years ago actually. If not earlier.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_reproduction
Do you have love for this knowledge, or are you a clanging bell?
Stuart
Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 08 2010,11:29) Stu has to believe in “Synchronistic Random Mutations” which do not exist. 80 mutations all at once exactly in line with 80 mutations to another gender.
Stu, doesn't understand that in order for SEXUAL reproduction to occur you need both a capable and fertile male and female of the same species at the same time in genetic history.
You really are very limited, aren't you.Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 08 2010,16:19) Quote (Stu @ Mar. 07 2010,20:07) Why? I don’t need to believe there are black holes before I can understand the effects they explain
There you go. Many people also believe in God in the same way. Although it pays to have more than that.
Name the effects then. I mean the evidence for black holes is pretty unambiguous. What is the unambiguous evidence for your god?Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 08 2010,16:20) Quote (Stu @ Mar. 07 2010,12:23) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 07 2010,12:14) Yes, the gospel is crack-pottery to those who are perishing.
And let's face it, you believe you are perishing too, so no argument from both sides on this one.1 Corinthians
“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him…
What god?Stuart
God.
What god?Stuart
Quote (princess of the king @ Mar. 08 2010,00:39) Quote Well there is no need for love in anything, is there? Pardon the interruption Stuart, just for clarification, could you laymen your thoughts on this one.
Thank you in advance.
Yes. An example might be the few evangelical creationists who bite their tongues and complete a PhD in a biological science just so they can use the credibility of a PhD to support their lies about natural history. For most biologists a PhD is a work of love. For these creationists there is no love for the subject, they are just out to deceive. Sad really. I imagine a few of them are turned off creationism by the astonishment and wonder of these sciences, but there will be some dullard religious liars with just enough brains to jump through the hoops who make it back to the creation museum with a real qualification. Of course everything they learned, including their own research for the doctorate are things they will have to lie about to others.Is laymen an American verb? Like burglarize, which is a respectable noun that has been corrupted?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Mar. 08 2010,19:32) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 08 2010,16:20) Quote (Stu @ Mar. 07 2010,12:23) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 07 2010,12:14) Yes, the gospel is crack-pottery to those who are perishing.
And let's face it, you believe you are perishing too, so no argument from both sides on this one.1 Corinthians
“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him…
What god?Stuart
God.
What god?Stuart
Hi Stuart,Can you see oxygen? That's as silly as saying what oxygen !
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
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