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This Emperor of Rome used christianity as a tool to strengthen his Empire. As christianity was spreading throughout his kingdom, Constantine was finding it more difficult to oppose christianity. And with the constant attacks to the empire, it was as if Rome was fighting two fronts. It became increasingly difficult to contend with the growing christian problem and also constantly having to fend off opposing armies. For the enemies of Rome seen how weak the Roman Empire had become because of christianity and they continually tried to topple Rome and almost succeeded.
Constantine claimed he had a vision from God and because of this vision, he put a symbol on his shields and it was believed this led them to victory. They were grossly outnumbered and many believed the victory a miracle.
With this impressive victory, Constantine claimed he believed in the God of the christians and he sought to stop persecution of the christians. He then perpetuated ways that instituted the church into matters of the state. And the state into the church. This is how the Holy Roman Empire got her start. The ideals of the Roman Empire infiltrated that of the church and has been waiting for her time in these end of days.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Sep. 02 2006,00:23) This Emperor of Rome used christianity as a tool to strengthen his Empire. As christianity was spreading throughout his kingdom, Constantine was finding it more difficult to oppose christianity. And with the constant attacks to the empire, it was as if Rome was fighting two fronts. It became increasingly difficult to contend with the growing christian problem and also constantly having to fend off opposing armies. For the enemies of Rome seen how weak the Roman Empire had become because of christianity and they continually tried to topple Rome and almost succeeded. Constantine claimed he had a vision from God and because of this vision, he put a symbol on his shields and it was believed this led them to victory. They were grossly outnumbered and many believed the victory a miracle.
With this impressive victory, Constantine claimed he believed in the God of the christians and he sought to stop persecution of the christians. He then perpetuated ways that instituted the church into matters of the state. And the state into the church. This is how the Holy Roman Empire got her start. The ideals of the Roman Empire infiltrated that of the church and has been waiting for her time in these end of days.
interestingly Constantine's son sided with the Arians and exiled Athanansius for his beliefs in the Trinity…. eventually the northern Germanic tribes, also Arians, sacked Rome and persecuted trinitarians until they eventually became trinitarians themselves….. “Constantius was pro-Arian in his leanings and took an active part in the affairs of the Christian church — convening one council at Rimini and its twin at Seleuca, which met in 359 and 360.” (Wikpedia)Hi E,
Are you happy that the world political system controlled the development of the work of the church? Is this not spiritual adultery according to scripture?The trinity doctrine is just one of the many things that was changed by the catholic church that corrupted the faith. It's effects are felt to this day and will continue until destroyed by Christ is the battle of Armageddon. Yet, the beast will destroy the whore, and if that means doing away with religion completely or the way of the catholic church for the beast religion, I do not know for sure.
Hi,
The roman oppressor who initiated the trinity doctrine formulation to bring unity to his realm is dead and we should no longer be frightened to think for ourselves comparing scripture with scripture to find the truth as Jesus would have us do.Yes many over the centuries have paid with their lives, but even if we are to pay with our life, then we should do it rather than deny our Lord. If we are already crucified with Christ, then we cannot be truly killed.
We have nothing to fear. God is perfect love.
Yes and he was the one who enforced the change of the Sabbath day to keeping the pagan day of the Sun with his buddy the POPE!
Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 23 2007,14:12) Yes and he was the one who enforced the change of the Sabbath day to keeping the pagan day of the Sun with his buddy the POPE!
The christians since polycarp and clement 60-95 AD didnt keep the sabbath either. Everyday is sabbath day because we enter the rest of Christ. Heb. 4Yes their were those who did keep the sabbath but do you know what all else they believed?
Quote (Morning Star @ Feb. 23 2007,14:38) Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 23 2007,14:12) Yes and he was the one who enforced the change of the Sabbath day to keeping the pagan day of the Sun with his buddy the POPE!
The christians since polycarp and clement 60-95 AD didnt keep the sabbath either. Everyday is sabbath day because we enter the rest of Christ. Heb. 4Yes their were those who did keep the sabbath but do you know what all else they believed?
Ok please explain Matt. 5:17-19 and Luke 24:44. Who was it that said that many antichrist have come into the world. Don't you think Satan was working in the first century.Is it alright to commit adultery? OVER and OVER! If you keep any of the Ten commandments then you should keep them all. You can't choose which one's you WANT to keep and forget the one's you don't.
If you kept the Sabbath day and commited murder it wouldn't be any different. I would be telling you “thou shalt not murder” so why is the Sabbath different?
Why? Because the Sabbath says that you believe that God is creator and God. You rest the same day He rested and commandmented.
What do you do with scriptures that say the church keeps the Commandments of God? I like this one because it shows that the church will be keeping the commandments of God in the end times.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus:
What commandments is Jesus speaking of ? Revelation is of Jesus, right? This is the same Jesus who said “IF you love me Keep MY Commandments”.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments.
Heb 4:3 For we who have believed do enter into that rest; even as he hath said, As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he hath said somewhere of the seventh day on this wise, And God rested on the seventh day from all his works;
Heb 4:5 and in this place again, They shall not enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some should enter thereinto, and they to whom the good tidings were before preached failed to enter in because of disobedience,
Heb 4:7 he again defineth a certain day, To-day, saying in David so long a time afterward (even as hath been said before), To-day if ye shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken afterward of another day.Which day did Joshua speak of ? Sunday? “He AGAIN defines a *certain day* To-day (not today) if you hear His voice..”
whom the good tidings were before preached failed to enter in because of disobedience
*Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God*.
Quote (Morning Star @ Feb. 23 2007,14:38) Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 23 2007,14:12) Yes and he was the one who enforced the change of the Sabbath day to keeping the pagan day of the Sun with his buddy the POPE!
The christians since polycarp and clement 60-95 AD didnt keep the sabbath either. Everyday is sabbath day because we enter the rest of Christ. Heb. 4Yes their were those who did keep the sabbath but do you know what all else they believed?
Ok please explain Matt. 5:17-19 and Luke 24:44. Who was it that said that many antichrist have come into the world. Don't you think Satan was working in the first century.Is it alright to commit adultery? OVER and OVER! If you keep any of the Ten commandments then you should keep them all. You can't choose which one's you WANT to keep and forget the one's you don't.
If you kept the Sabbath day and commited murder it wouldn't be any different. I would be telling you “thou shalt not murder” so why is the Sabbath different?
Why? Because the Sabbath says that you believe that God is creator and God. You rest the same day He rested and commandmented.
What do you do with scriptures that say the church keeps the Commandments of God? I like this one because it shows that the church will be keeping the commandments of God in the end times.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus:
What commandments is Jesus speaking of ? Revelation is of Jesus, right? This is the same Jesus who said “IF you love me Keep MY Commandments”.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments.
Heb 4:3 For we who have believed do enter into that rest; even as he hath said, As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he hath said somewhere of the seventh day on this wise, And God rested on the seventh day from all his works;
Heb 4:5 and in this place again, They shall not enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some should enter thereinto, and they to whom the good tidings were before preached failed to enter in because of disobedience,
Heb 4:7 he again defineth a certain day, To-day, saying in David so long a time afterward (even as hath been said before), To-day if ye shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts.whom the good tidings were before preached failed to enter in BECAUSE OF DISOBEDIENCE..
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken afterward of another day.
Which day did Joshua speak of ? Sunday? “He AGAIN defines a *certain day* To-day (not today) if you hear His voice..”
The Sabbath wasn't done away with no more than thou shalt not murder.
*Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God*.
Scriptures plainly say that you should keep the Sabbath day.
You say everyday is your sabbath. Do you work? Are you able to worship God with everything you are, everyday? Even if you had no job you would still have to work around the house.
God wants a whole day for Himself and He says that day is the seventh day the forth commandment of God.
It's just that simple!,
IHL,
Ken
ps I have to go because I have laundry to do. One thing I assure you I won't be doing on the Sabbath day
God Bless You!
Yup, they changed the laws, they brought in the Trinity Doctrine and who knows!! they may have even rewritten the bible, well not to forget they removed some books from the canon too.
Doesnt this seem familiar? the Roman empire/Catholic church and the emperors of other countries/presidents etc working together. History repeating itself constantly
just my babbling 2 cents
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Sep. 02 2006,00:23) This Emperor of Rome used christianity as a tool to strengthen his Empire. As christianity was spreading throughout his kingdom, Constantine was finding it more difficult to oppose christianity. And with the constant attacks to the empire, it was as if Rome was fighting two fronts. It became increasingly difficult to contend with the growing christian problem and also constantly having to fend off opposing armies. For the enemies of Rome seen how weak the Roman Empire had become because of christianity and they continually tried to topple Rome and almost succeeded. Constantine claimed he had a vision from God and because of this vision, he put a symbol on his shields and it was believed this led them to victory. They were grossly outnumbered and many believed the victory a miracle.
With this impressive victory, Constantine claimed he believed in the God of the christians and he sought to stop persecution of the christians. He then perpetuated ways that instituted the church into matters of the state. And the state into the church. This is how the Holy Roman Empire got her start. The ideals of the Roman Empire infiltrated that of the church and has been waiting for her time in these end of days.
Posted: Sep. 02 2006,12:51 by epistemaniac
Interestingly Constantine's son sided with the Arians and exiled Athanansius for his beliefs in the Trinity…. eventually the northern Germanic tribes, also Arians, sacked Rome and persecuted trinitarians until they eventually became trinitarians themselves….. “Constantius was pro-Arian in his leanings and took an active part in the affairs of the Christian church — convening one council at Rimini and its twin at Seleuca, which met in 359 and 360.” (Wikpedia)
Good points Epi.
Hi TaA,
This guy insisted everyone believe the trinity idea.
But hey he has been dead a year or two has he not?
We should not feel bound to believe what is not written.From DK pasted from another thread to Epistomaniac
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For E..Since obviously you haven't REALLY studied the history of your god Costantine..here is a brief synopsis…(sources cited)During Constantine’s rule Christianity not only began to play a role in Roman governmental activities, but Christian symbols made there way onto Roman coinage as well. Constantine was responsible for the spread of Christianity in the Roman Empire, but his motives were not religious. Constantine’s political genius gave him the insight to realize the he could either begin tolerating the Christians, or let them slowly destroy his empire. Constantine chose to tolerate the Christian, but was aware it would be a very difficult task. Diocletian, emperor of the Western Roman Empire before Maxentius did all he could to rid his empire of the Christians, but was unsuccessful in doing so. Constantine was aware that persecuting the Christians would only encourage their martyrdom and would ultimately prove be an unsuccessful effort (Chadwick 127-29). In the centuries leading up to Constantine’s reign Christians were humiliated, tortured and killed if they refused to renounce their faith. Many gave up their Christian beliefs, but those who did not became martyrs. Those people who refused to renounce their faith and were killed and as a result became great inspirations to those living Christians in the empire. “The impact of martyrdom was immense and even, according to Tertulian, acted as a seed-bed for Christianity (Elliot 351).”
Constantine not only had to prove himself a more than efficient politician, but he had to sell himself to both religious groups. This would take a great deal of personal effort from Constantine. He would have to present himself as a supporter of the pagans, while supporting the Christians as well. What made this so difficult for Constantine was in Rome it wasn’t strange for an individual to observe several pagan traditions, Constantine himself followed several. This was completely unacceptable to Christians; in their eyes the worship of other gods was unacceptable. Constantine’s pro-Christian message was accepted without a great deal of public outcry because of its similarities to solar monotheism, the most popular form of paganism in the Roman Empire at this time. Like solar monotheism, the sun was a very important religious symbol to Christians. Many believed that Christians worshipped the sun, because just as solar monotheists they met on Sundays and prayed facing the East. Also in the Old Testament, Jesus was known as the “sun of righteousness.” Despite the similarities between Christianity and solar monotheism, this adoption of Christianity by Constantine still proved to be a difficult task.
First, Christ was not a god of war. The Old Testament frequently involved God in the slaughter of his enemies, but the New Testament did not. Constantine would have to create a totally new conception of Christianity if he was to sustain the link between the Christian God and victory in war. Second, it was crucial for Constantine’s political survival that he did not break with the pagan cults that still claimed the allegiance of most of his subjects, yet Christianity emphatically rejected paganism (Freeman 157).
As Dr. Charles Freeman illustrates in this quote, Constantine had to be very careful not to offend the pagans or the Christians. A falling out with either the pagans or the Christians could prove to be disastrous for Constantine. This division would only add to the long list of differences between the western and eastern empire. The eastern empire was extremely Christianized while the western was predominately pagan. Trouble between these two very different sections of Rome was a genuine threat. A quarrel over religion could tear the Roman Empire apart (Rodgers 235).
Soon Constantine would find out that the Christians were much more volatile than the pagans. In order to keep the Christians happy he began granting members of the clergy special favors, “in particular exemption from the heavy burden of holding civic office and taxation (Freeman 162).” This is an essential step in Constantine’s attempt to tie the Christians into Roman society. Not only was he attempting to buy the trust of Christians after a decade of persecution, but he had to do so without upsetting the non-Christian members of his empire. This was a very dangerous move, no pagan priests had ever been given special attention in the Roman Empire, and for Constantine to favor Christian clergy in this manner was almost unheard of. Amazingly there was almost no backlash from the non-Christian population of Rome. However, Constantine did not know what he was getting himself into. “He appears to have been genuinely surprised at the number and diversity of communities calling themselves Christian, and soon after his victory he had to face the dilemma of whether to give patronage to all of these or to privilege some communities more than others (Freeman 165)” Constantine devoted much more time to facilitating their actions within his empire. He must have been terrified when he realized that he was dealing with another group of people that were destroying themselves from the inside out. There was just as much dissension amongst the Christian ranks as there was amongst Roman Officials. Desperate to end the tension between those different Christian groups Constantine called a council of bishops. The bishops met at the imperial palace at Nicaea in Asia Minor, Constantine’s goal was to create a Christian doctrine that all Christians could agree on, and could be backed by the state (Chadwick 130).
Constantine’s conversion of Rome marks a turning-point in the history of the Christian Church and of Europe. “It meant more than the end of persecution. The sovereign autocrat was inevitably and immediately involved in the development of the church, and conversely the Church became more and more implicated in high political decisions (Chadwick 125).” Constantine’s toleration of Christianity was most definitely a political maneuver. The most impressive accomplishment of Constantine’s reign was his ability to keep the Roman Empire intact. The fact that Christianity was now integrated into the most powerful empire in the world and would soon become the most powerful religion in the world was a bi-product of Constantine’s policy to keep the Roman Empire afloat. Constantine may have been the greatest promoter of Christianity of all time, but his motives behind the Edict of Milan, the Council of Nicaea and every other policy favoring Christianity were purely political.
Works Cited
Bailkey, Nels M. and Richard Lim. Readings in Ancient History: Thought and
Experience from Gilgamesh to St. Augustine. New York: Houghton Mifflin Co., 2002.
Chadwick, Henry. The Early Church. London: Pelican Books, 1967.
Elliot, Thomas G. The Language of Constantine’s Propaganda. Transactions of the
American Philological Association (1974), Vol. 120. (1990), pp. 349-353.
Freeman, Charles. The Closing of the Western Mind: The Rise of Faith and the Fall of
Reason. New York: Vintage Books, 2002.
Rodgers, Barbara Saylor. The Metamorphosis of Constantine. The Classical Quarterly,
New Series, Vol. 39, No.1. (1989), pp. 233-246.
Wright, David H. The True Face of Constantine the Great. Dumbarton Oaks Papers, Vol.
41, Studies on Art and Archaelogy in Honor of Ernst Kitzingers on His Seventy-
Fifth Birthday. (1987), pp. 493-507.Hope you learned something
HI,
From E in reply
“LOL…. if you want to insist on thinking that you are my brother… have at it…secondly, you are not God, you cannot decide who is a true Christian and who is not, isn't that what people have been telling me here…?
thirdly, “history” lessons aside, and perhaps you have need of some yourself…. there are differing opinions regarding Constantine's level of Christian commitment and his reasons behind that commitment: “During his life and those of his sons, Constantine's was presented as a paragon of virtue. Even pagans like Praxagoras of Athens and Libanius showered him with praise. When the last of his sons died in 361, his nephew Julian the Apostate wrote the satire Symposium, or the Saturnalia. The work stigmatized Constantine as inferior to the great pagan emperors, given over to luxury and greed.[224] Following Julian, Eunapius of Sardis began the tradition that blamed Constantine for weakening the Empire through his indulgence to the Christians. In medieval times, when the Roman Catholic Church was dominant, Catholic historians presented Constantine as an ideal ruler, the standard against which any king or emperor could be measured. The Renaissance rediscovery of anti-Constantinian sources prompted a re-evaluation of Constantine's career. The German humanist Johann Löwenklau, discoverer of Zosimus' writings, published a Latin translation thereof in 1576. He included a preface that argued for Zosimus' picture of Constantine was superior to that offered by Eusebius and the church historians, and damned Constantine as a tyrant.[227] Cardinal Caesar Baronius, a man of the Counter-Reformation, criticized Zosimus, favoring Eusebius' account of the Constantinian era. Baronius' Life of Constantine (1588) presents Constantine as the model of a Christian prince. Edward Gibbon, aiming to unite the two extremes of Constantinian scholarship, offered a portrait of Constantine built on the contrasted narratives of Eusebius and Zosimus.
Modern interpretations of Constantine's rule begin with Jacob Burckhardt's The Age of Constantine the Great (1853). Burckhardt's Constantine is a scheming secularist, a politician who manipulates all parties in a quest to secure his own power.[230] Henri Grégoire, writing in the 1930s, followed Burckhardt's evaluation of Constantine. For Grégoire, Constantine only developed an interest in Christianity after witnessing its political usefulness. Grégoire became a strong of the authenticity of Eusebius' writings, and postulated a pseudo-Eusebius to assume responsibility for the vision and conversion narratives of Eusebius' Vita Constantini. Otto Seeck, in Geschichte des Untergangs der antiken Welt (1920–23), and André Piganiol, in L'empereur Constantin (1932), wrote against this historiographic tradition. Seeck presented Constantine as a sincere war hero, whose ambiguities were the product of his own simple inconsistency. Piganiol's Constantine is a philosophical monotheist, a child of his era's religious syncretism. Related histories by A.H.M. Jones (Constantine and the Conversion of Europe (1949)) and Ramsay MacMullen (Constantine (1969)) gave portraits of a less visionary, and more impulsive, Constantine.
These later accounts were more willing to present Constantine as a genuine convert to Christianity. Beginning with Norman H. Baynes' Constantine the Great and the Christian Church (1929) and reinforced by Andreas Alföldi's The Conversion of Constantine and Pagan Rome (1948), a historiographic tradition developed which presented Constantine as a committed Christian. T.D. Barnes' seminal Constantine and Eusebius (1981), represents the culmination of this trend. Barnes' Constantine experienced a radical conversion, which drove him on a personal crusade to convert his empire. The trend reaches its zenith in T.G. Elliott's The Christianity of Constantine the Great (1996). Elliott portrays Constantine as a committed Christian from early childhood.” (Wikipedia)
Anyone else feel we should follow this ? example of christanity?
Nick…….I agree with DK's post what i have read on Constantine was about the same as the post He was in a campaign to bring Rome under One ruler (HIM) as Emperor Maximus and need the Pagans and Christians of the Eastern and Western Empires to Unite and so He called the council of Nicea in 325 AD. He had to deal with three problems the Pagans, the Arian Christian in the eastern Empire ,the Athanansius Christians in the west Empire . He put of baptism until he was on his death bed, so he could indulge in all his lustful activities and Just prior to death had a Priest who he took with him every where he went, baptism him so he could escape going to hell. His life was not that of a true Christian as far as what i have read.
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