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Proclaimer: I don’t remember reports saying that you would be 100% protected.
You can watch it all, but the first minute should be enough to show you that I know what I’m talking about. Watch Biden at the 24 second mark point blank say that “you’re not going to get Covid if you have these vaccinations“. https://rumble.com/vperyy-they-lied-about-the-vaccines.html
Proclaimer: I remember 99% or 97% or whatever efficacy at the beginning. And that dropped as the virus mutated.
1. Their 95% efficacy claim dropped to 30% after a couple of months – before there was any “mutations”. In other words, “mutations” had nothing to do with it. The claimed efficacy just drops very rapidly. That’s why they’re now calling for booster shots every 5 months (Biden claimed ONE booster 8 months after your first shot in the vid above). You have never answered my MANY inquiries as to what your magic number will be. How many “boosters” will YOU get just because those who want to control you tell you it’s “good for you”? WHY DON’T YOU ANSWER FOR ONCE? HOW MANY SHOTS ARE YOU PERSONALLY WILLING TO GET, PROCLAIMER?
2. The 95% efficacy isn’t what you think, either…
Proclaimer: Looking at this through the eyes of the stone age, your model fits. When a person dies and goes to heaven, they are lifted off the rock slab and through the sky.
You’re getting closer to admitting what we all know that you already know. Now just be honest and take it that final step. Just admit that Isaiah was talking about a flat circle with a nomad tent heaven over it because he was “looking at this through the eyes of the stone age”.
That is, after all, what you believe – and you’ve said as much in the Flat Earth thread before. Why won’t you say the same here? Why won’t you just come out and say that the writers of the Bible were ignorant goat herders who were not basing their idiotic flat domed earth ideas on “real science”?
I ask again… Which model of the earth is it MORE LIKELY that Isaiah was describing with the words “God sits enthroned above the circle of the earth and spreads the heaven out like a tent for us to live in”? Yours? Or mine?
Mike: A little hard for the above “foundations of the earth” to be “pillars of the community” when mankind hadn’t even been created yet, don’t you think?
Proclaimer: Bwahahaha!
So then the adult answer would be, “Yes Mike… when the scriptures talk about God laying the foundations of the earth and creating the heaven, before a single human being existed – let alone societies of human beings – it is abundantly clear to any rationally thinking person that these scripture cannot be talking about human beings as the “pillars/foundations” of the earth… which means they could only be referring to ACTUAL pillars/foundations on which God set the earth.”
I accept your answer (now that I’ve “adulted” it up a little for you.) And I accept your promise (that I’ve made in your behalf) that you will never again try to divert from the actual point by claiming that human beings are sometimes called “pillars of society”.
Thank you. Now we can move forward with my other points that you’ve been trying to hide from.
Proclaimer: You said something similar about Africa I think. Despite that, I am not arguing against drugs that might help.
Yes… along with posting raw data from Utter Pradesh, I have also posted data (and even MSM articles) concerning Japan conquering Covid with Ivermectin, and concerning the fact that Covid barely affected Africa at all. The latter was confusing the MSM’s best scientists. It didn’t confuse us, because we were already aware that most Africans take Ivermectin and HCQ on a regular basis to thwart of malaria and other parasitic infections.
And if these cheap, extremely safe, and readily available drugs (which have been used by billions for decades) can conquer Covid, then what’s the point of injecting an experimental gene-altering mRNA code into your body (that has been proven not to work anyway)? What’s the point of getting even MORE of that stuff injected into you when the first 2 shots didn’t work – and Ivermectin/HCQ do work?
I’d really like an answer.
Mike: Keep in mind the understanding of every Biblical scholar who, while themselves accepting the heliocentric model, will tell you in no uncertain terms that the Bible is indeed a flat earth book.
Proclaimer: …they want the Bible to reflect false stone age views about the cosmos so the bible can be debunked. Trouble is, the Bible [doesn’t teach] a flat earth as a scientific view…
Getting even closer yet! Now it’s not a point of the Bible actually “reflecting false stone age views about the cosmos”, but certain people WANTING it to do that. And I noticed that you’ve now added the parameter “as a scientific view” to your explanation.
Newsflash: I’m just pointing out what the Bible ACTUALLY teaches – not what I WANT it to teach. And there is ZERO Biblical disclaimers saying “The views expressed within do not convey ‘scientific views'”.
I must say that it’s a thing of joy for me to see your lame and pathetic attempts to twist Biblical truth slowly but surely fall flat on their faces. It might just be time for you to come out and acknowledge your actual position – which is that the writers of the Bible indeed taught about a flat earth with a hard domed heaven over it, but that’s only because they were just ignorant sheep herders who simply didn’t understand our world in a modern scientific way.
Come on… just say it so we can put an end to this charade you’ve been trying to perpetrate on us.
Mike: I’m asking you which of the following two descriptions of the earth better align with a firmament that has windows that can be opened to let the waters above in, and then closed to stop the waters above from entering?
Adam: Good question. Proclaimer wants to align his Bible with present day science which is not possible.
Proclaimer: To Laurel and Hardy. Thanks for the laughs.
You both want the bible to teach flat earth so bad. It is hilarious. Anyone can see your motives so clearly.
Proclaimer: Besides all that. When it rains, it does come down in portals if you want to call it that.
And is that what you want to call it? Will you seriously now try to claim that CLOUDS are the “windows of heaven” that God opened to let “the waters above” flood the earth, and then closed after He had allowed a sufficient amount of water in?
Please. 🙄
2 Peter 3:5-6… But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed.
The earth of that time was deluged and destroyed by the waters from which the very earth was formed. Genesis 1 tells us that God created a firmament that separated these waters into “the waters above” and “the waters below”. Genesis 7 tells us that God flooded the earth by 1) opening the springs of the great deep (the waters below) and 2) opening the windows of the firmament to let in the waters above.
That fit’s Peter’s teaching that the earth was destroyed in Noah’s day by the very waters from which the earth itself was formed, right?
Now make that work with CLOUDS being “the waters above” from and by which the earth itself was formed.
In fact, make your ball earth model fit into any scenario that requires the earth on which we live to have been made from and by water. (Remember that your model calls for a molten rock earth that had its waters delivered to it much later by thousands of ancient ice comets. 😅)
Getting even closer yet! Now it’s not a point of the Bible actually “reflecting false stone age views about the cosmos”, but certain people WANTING it to do that. And I noticed that you’ve now added the parameter “as a scientific view” to your explanation.
You cannot even give me one verse in the Bible that says the earth is flat. So it is vanity.
And is that what you want to call it? Will you seriously now try to claim that CLOUDS are the “windows of heaven” that God opened to let “the waters above” flood the earth, and then closed after He had allowed a sufficient amount of water in?
Look for a scientific explanation rather than imagine Lord of the Rings or some fantasy. More water in atmosphere in the past meaning a greenhouse effect which explains warm climates at the poles and northern regions of the planet. Much water transferred to earth below in squalls or storms, not just a even dump of water. Two-thirds of earth covered in ocean, unlike the new earth where there is no longer any sea.
Get over it Mike. You are not convincing any sensible people with your fantasy pizza world that sits in a globe dome. The only thing the pizza theory has going for it is the earth has a crust.
2 Peter 3:5-6… But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed.
Good. See my explanation above.
I agree. But on the same token, if you debate a fool, you need to show him his foolishness lest he think that he is wise and a worthy competitor.
Proverbs 26:4-5
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself.I ridicule your answers and flat earth teachings because it is deserve. I do not tolerate foolishness. I am a fool for Christ, not a fool for Satan, the Father of Lies.
Mike: A little hard for the above “foundations of the earth” to be “pillars of the community” when mankind hadn’t even been created yet, don’t you think?
Proclaimer: Bwahahaha!
So then the adult answer would be, “Yes Mike… when the scriptures talk about God laying the foundations of the earth
Dude, when I laughed out loud it was because of how stupid your point was. It showed me how blind and biased you are.
Foundations are not always stone pillars Mike. I’m amazed that I have to explain that. Is the foundation of the Internet made of stone? Do you see stone pillars holding up planets like Mars? Is a person who is a foundation made of stone?
Time to grow up perhaps?
The Earth like anything in the universe is subject to God’s laws. These laws and his word holds all things together. Stone pillars? Bwhahahaha!
Mike, find out your calling in God. It is those who do his will that are his sons. God does not call us to teach lies and put the faith into disrepute. You have lost all credibility.
Why won’t you just come out and say that the writers of the Bible were ignorant goat herders who were not basing their idiotic flat domed earth ideas on “real science”?
Um, the whole world was pretty ignorant back then as far as science goes. People died in the millions through pandemics and they didn’t really understand it or how to lessen its impact. People also died young because they didn;t have surgery and medicine like we do today. It was common for babies and young children to die.
You know, there is a reason why it says in the scripture that knowledge shall increase. It says that because knowledge shall increase. That means Mike, that knowledge has increased today. Did they have an Internet back then? Did Jesus travel in planes or did Caesar have a better vehicle than you? Did anyone understand and utilize electricity? Could we even be having this conversation while living on opposites sides of the globe?
As far as ignorant goat herders go. God can use an ignorant goat herder if he has a heart for truth. But he cannot use people who do not love the truth. Further, I do not see anyone in scripture saying the earth is flat, thus scripture given under inspiration does not say the earth is a flat disc anywhere. Why lie about that Mike? So all your arguments on this subject are founded on nothing. Not even stone pillars Mike. Lol.
Remember, it is a fool who hates a rebuke.
You can watch it all, but the first minute should be enough to show you that I know what I’m talking about. Watch Biden at the 24 second mark point blank say that “you’re not going to get Covid if you have these vaccinations“. https://rumble.com/vperyy-they-lied-about-the-vaccines.html
We both agree that the mainstream media are corrupt and we both know that they lie. Further, we can both agree that at the beginning, many did not understand much as there was not much data to draw upon. And yes, there will be things said like that in ignorance. But as time progressed, we see corrections, more information, and stricter mandates. For the most part, we have been told that it lessens the harmful effects of the virus.
Of course at the beginning of any event, there is great ignorance. I remember when Trump closed the borders from China and how he was called racist and how politicians encouraged people to go to the Chinese New Year celebrations which turned out to be a super spreader event.
For the most part, we have been told that the vaccines will stop the severity of transmission and the severity of symptoms. So far this has proven to be the case. However, it seems lately with Omicron that transmission is the same perhaps even worse among the vaccinated. That said, most people feel it as a common cold. It is almost a different virus now, so the vaccines are not as effective.
Hopefully it gets to the level of the flu vaccine, where you can decide to have it or not.
Mike, this is not a debate of two great minds, a flat earth scientist and a globe scientist. It is simply a long rebuke toward someone who has destroyed his own credibility, and is teaching without proof, that the Bible teaches a flat earth. Worse still, you continue to misrepresent the Bible to Atheists who need salvation. Such a despicable act keeps these men away from God and the truth that could save them.
You need to re-evaluate your whole purpose in God. We will all be judged for our words and actions toward others.
Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.
Mike: Why won’t you just come out and say that the writers of the Bible were ignorant goat herders who were not basing their idiotic flat domed earth ideas on “real science”?
Proclaimer: Um, the whole world was pretty ignorant back then as far as science goes.
And there it is… FINALLY!
For those who don’t know, I started a “Flat Earth” thread a couple of years ago, where Proclaimer openly acknowledged that the Bible clearly described a world very different than the heliocentric world to which he subscribes. He opined that the reason the writers of scripture were so off base on their conception of the world is that they were basically ignorant goat herders trying to explain things the way they saw them from their own unscientific understandings and their own perspectives.
But when I explained to him that Moses, for example, wasn’t an eye-witness to creation and therefore the world that Moses described in Genesis 1 must have been the world that God described to Moses – Proclaimer began to understand his dilemma. Because either Moses was conveying things that God showed him (which means God was wrong about the very world that He created), or Moses was making stuff up out of thin air (which means there is no valid reason to believe anything else that Moses said). And that goes for Isaiah… and King David… and Joshua… and Daniel… and even Jesus Christ!
See, if Jesus told his disciples that Satan took him to the top of a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, then either Jesus didn’t understand that we lived on a ball, or Jesus lied, or the apostles who related that account to us made it up. In any case – if the world truly is a ball where the account would be impossible no matter how high the mountain was – then the account is blatantly false. And regardless of who lied about it (Jesus, Matthew, or Luke), we no longer have a valid reason to believe the other things they said.
The same goes for Daniel and the tall tree that could be seen from everywhere on earth. And for Peter saying the world was formed from water and by water… which is 100% FALSE according to the heliocentric model. And for King David saying that the sun runs a circuit from one end of the heaven to the other – or Joshua saying that God made the sun stand still in the sky. And for Isaiah saying that God sits enthroned above the circle of the earth and spreads out the heaven like a tent for us to live in. And for Jesus saying that he witnessed God laying the foundations of the earth and inscribing a circle on the face of the deep.
The bottom line is that Proclaimer knows this – because I laid it out for him in the “Flat Earth” thread. There are only two choices: Either the Bible is RIGHT about our world, or the Bible is WRONG – in which case there’s no valid reason to believe the other things written in it. I mean, some of the other things might be true accounts, but how do we know which to believe and which to disregard? And what good is a book of that’s only partially true, and everyone has to decide for themselves which parts are true and which parts aren’t?
So because Proclaimer was taught this lessen in the “Flat Earth” thread, he came up with the idea that if he could just show that there is no scripture in which the Bible explicitly states – word for word – “the earth is flat”, he could “win” the argument – thereby being able to imply that the Bible doesn’t teach against his heliocentric fantasy after all.
He has not only failed, but has made himself look like a blubbering fool in the process. I mean, the man has had the audacity to suggest that the “windows of heaven” that God opened to flood the earth and then closed are freaking CLOUDS! He has claimed that Satan was able to give our Lord (who was there when God created the heavens and the earth) a vision of an event that would only be possible on a flat earth – despite the earth being a ball. He can’t explain how the lesser Satan would be able to cast a vision to the greater Jesus, why this “vision” part isn’t mentioned in the scriptures, or why the vision would be of something completely impossible. And he has suggested that Isaiah described God somehow sitting ABOVE (🤔) a spinning ball orbiting a sun (which wasn’t even created until 4 days after the ball), with a spherical heaven-tent encompassing it.
These are the depths to which a person filled with arrogant pride must go in his attempt to be right no matter how much clear Biblical evidence is stacked against him. This is also why I left the “Flat Earth” thread over a year ago. It stopped being an actual debate between intelligent men discussing ideas after the first few weeks. At that point, it became what you’ve witnessed here: One intelligent man showing clear proofs to another man who ignores them, diverts away from them, responds to them with bizarre “clouds are windows” nonsense, or addresses them with ad hominem attacks and childishness like “Bwahahahah!”.
It’s time to change the game up – and bring Proclaimer to his knees.
Genesis 1:1-2… In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.
Proclaimer, these are the very first words in the Bible. Do these words align with your heliocentric model? Was the earth formed from waters in your model? Yes or No please?
Proclaimer: Mike, this is not a debate of two great minds… It is simply a long rebuke toward someone who has destroyed his own credibility…
Agreed.
Let’s see if you are willing to honestly and directly answer the very simple question at the bottom of my previous post so we can get an idea of which of us is doing the rebuking, and which of us has destroyed his own credibility. 😉
I started your post Mike and it is not good. The disciples and writers of scripture never taught that the earth is flat, full stop. They never drew the flat earth model either that you tout. Trying to merge an ancient flat earth model with revelations in scripture is not only futile, but dishonest and not worthy of a person who claims to be a believer. As another member once put it, it is dissapointing to find believers acting this way.
And it is a fact that iron age civilisations lacked much science. So what. I don’t hold it against them. Scripture says knowledge shall increase.
2000 or more years later, we have a wonderful view of the universe, but Mike thinks that stone age to iron age views of the universe are correct. He says the bible supports it. And his no1 verse is the circle of the earth. A verse that supports the globe or sphere which as Mike admits now, is a circle.
Anyway, please be ware if you are an Athiest. Mike’s assertions that the Bible teaches flat earth are lies. If that is you, do not listen to Mike. He will lead you away from God because of his foolish behaviour. The bible doesn’t teach his view.
Instead, I point you to my own personal testimony which explains God’s love and the wonders of heaven that await those that love God and truth. This I can testify is truth. As for the cosmos, we can agree that it is awesome.
Proclaimer (aka CLOUDS ARE THE WINDOWS OF HEAVEN): I started your post Mike and it is not good…
Yeah… I didn’t think my very accurate portrayal of your continual fails would be well received by you. In fact, as I was ending the lengthy (but partial) account of those fails with a very simple question, I thought to myself, “What if it is too painful for CLOUD-WINDOW to read paragraph after paragraph exposing his failures – and the nonsensical ways he has tried to conceal them – and he doesn’t make it to the bottom of the post? I’d better point to that very simple question in another, much shorter post so that is sure to see it.”
And so that’s what I did. Yet (not surprisingly) you didn’t answer the very simple question. Why not? In the off chance that you didn’t see that other post pointing you to the question, I will follow up this post with another post that contains nothing but that very simple question. 😉
Genesis 1:1-2… In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Now the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.
Proclaimer, these are the very first words in the Bible. Were heaven and earth formed out of water in your worldview?
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