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Proclaimer: Where are the articles or sources showing that these points were widely reported?
Let’s just take the first one on the list. Are you seriously saying that it was never widely reported that the jabs would prohibit people from catching and spreading Covid? I’ll wait for your answer before providing the evidence.
Proclaimer: People die of heart attacks every day. Chances are someone will have had the vaccine the day before.
What matters are stats showing an increase in heart attacks. Or an unusual amount of attacks on a single group, in particular those that received a vaccine one to five days before.
You mean like this…
Or this…
Or even Pfizer’s own clinical trials…
Mike: Do you understand just how STUPID they think we are? “Oh, it’s perfectly normal for the flu to take a year off while we simultaneously racked up millions of Covid cases!” 🙄🙄🙄
Proclaimer: The other explanation which by the way is indisputable science is that lock downs, masks, and people being more spaced apart than usual will mean much less influenza.
Oh really? Please show us the “indisputable science” that lock downs can prevent the spread of an airborne virus. And the “indisputable science” that masks with 80 micron wide holes in the fabric can prevent a 1 micron wide virus from entering or exiting. And the “indisputable science” that spacing people 6 feet apart (not 5, and not 7) prevents an airborne virus from traveling that exact distance between people. Please include the “indisputable science” that a virus can spread while walking to your table in a restaurant (so you have to wear the mask), but then leaves you alone once you’re seated at your table (and it’s okay to take the mask off). Or, on the same note, how you need the mask on for the entire flight – UNLESS you are eating or drinking – in which case the virus knows not to leave you or enter you.
And while you’re at it, show us the “indisputable science” that it’s okay for jabbed people to shop and go out to eat – even though it’s now a proven fact that the jabs don’t stop anyone from catching or spreading Covid – while the unjabbed are forbidden from exercising these simple God-given rights.
Yeah… let’s do hear all about your “indisputable science” on these matters. We’ll be waiting.
Proclaimer: What makes you sure that these were caused by a vaccine rather than Covid?
Science. Coronaviruses (common colds) affect the lungs – not the hearts. They can turn into pneumonia in older and immune-compromised people. This allows fluids to fill the lungs, and people basically suffocate. It’s true that when this happens, your heart has to work harder to pump oxygen throughout your body – but any heart attack that caused would happen while your lungs are filled with the fluid and you can barely breathe. And nobody in that condition is out on the pitch playing football, right?
Almost everyone has gotten and fought off many coronaviruses in their lifetimes – and there is no evidence that it increases the chances of heart attacks a year or two later… especially for young athletic men in tip top shape.
On the other hand, actual scientific studies directly link heart damage to the jabs. Pfizer’s own clinical trials listed the high rate of myocarditis and pericarditis – especially in young boys and men. And their own clinical trials actually said that jabbed people are 4 TIMES MORE LIKELY to suffer heart attacks!
So you are free to keep thinking that Covid 19 was some scary killer disease (because that’s what the MSM tells you to think), but it didn’t do a single thing that the seasonal flu doesn’t do every single year. It brought on hospitalization and death among very old and already unhealthy people – just like the flu does every year.
And just think, with the seasonal flu “taking an unusual year off” last year, it was very easy to count what would have been normal yearly flu hospitalizations and deaths as Covid hospitalizations and deaths, right?
Understand? Two million die from flu: not even a story since it happens every year. On the other hand, two million die from the scariest and deadliest NEW virus man has ever known: let’s take away everyone’s rights and force them to get an untested experimental gene-altering injection that’s known to cause SERIOUS heart problems and hundreds of other SERIOUS adverse reactions.
YOU are part of the problem. Wake up already.
Proclaimer, while you are thinking about the above, remember Utter Pradesh in India. They mass-distributed a combination of very cheap medicines to their population – and they remain one of the few places in the world where Covid isn’t even a blip on the radar.
Apparently, Joe Biden talked with the President of India, and it was agreed that they not release the exact medicines they used. Why would they do such a thing? If the entire world is hurting, and one place has found the “miracle cure” to the ailment, why would they not IMMEDIATELY let the rest of the world know how they destroyed Covid?
And when it leaked that Ivermectin was part of the cure, why would the worldwide MSM go on a HUGE propaganda campaign AGAINST a drug that has been used safely and effectively for 40 years by billions of people? Why would the CDC instruct the US Postal Service to intercept shipments of Ivermectin and not deliver them?
Dude, you really need to wake up to what’s going on before your very eyes. Or I guess you could also just keep following your orders and taking more and more boosters – relishing the idea that you are one of the “good” servants who deserves your government-allowed freedoms that the “bad” servants (the “touters”) in NZ no longer get to enjoy.
To me you’re like a German who sees with his own eyes that the government is pitting one group of people against the other and committing horrendous atrocities – but since you were chosen to be part of Hitler’s powerful SS, and are therefore on the “winning side”, you go right along with the atrocities against the “losing side” and even commit them yourself under the guise of “just following orders”.
It’s been a question that philosophers have been pondering for 80 years: How exactly were good, decent German citizens convinced to commit (or go along with) such atrocities being committed against their fellow citizens?
It’s being played out again right before our eyes – but there are none so blind as those who simply refuse to see.
If anyone is interested in the FACTS regarding the Pfizer clinical trials and how they intentionally broke laws and the scientific method to get their product approved and make billions, invest 45 minutes of your life…
https://rumble.com/vrsed2-the-powerful-video-that-got-dr.-robert-malone-kicked-off-twitter.html
Btw, posting this very video is what got Dr. Robert Malone – the creator of the mRNA technology – permanently banned from Twitter. What does it tell you that Twitter, Facebook, YouTube and Google will ban simple scientific data if it goes against the MSM/Big Pharma narrative and makes them look very bad?
Does it tell you that they are being honest and transparent with the actual science? Or that they only want people to see their own version of the data?
Mike: A little hard for the above “foundations of the earth” to be “pillars of the community”
Proclaimer: Once again, you lack understanding.
A pillar of society is a support or foundation. Thus, the foundation of the earth doesn’t mean a couple of stone pillars atop a tortoise.
I wonder why you left out the rest of my statement when you quoted me. (No I don’t – I know exactly why you left it out.) Here is what I actually said about the 5 scriptures I quoted that spoke of the earth having foundations before man was created…
Mike: A little hard for the above “foundations of the earth” to be “pillars of the community” when mankind hadn’t even been created yet, don’t you think?
See that bolded part? Yeah… that was a part of my original statement. So your comment about MY “lack of understanding” and reiteration of your claim that the foundations of the earth mentioned in those 5 scriptures refer to “pillars of society” when there was no such thing as a human being yet – let alone a society of them – does not apply. That’s why I used those particular scriptures about the foundations of the earth.
So let’s just forget your non-applicable “answer” and see if you can answer this part of my statement that you also inexplicably left out…
Mike: So once we accept that these particular “foundations” refer to actual foundations of the earth, which understanding better aligns with the Bible – yours or mine?
I’d really like an honest and straightforward answer to it. Thanks.
Mike: Genesis 7:11-12… In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened. And rain fell upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
Genesis 8:2-3… The fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained, and the waters receded from the earth continually.
Proclaimer: Genesis 1:7 tells us that God created an “expanse” of atmosphere between the waters below and the waters above.
The actual Hebrew word is “raqia”, and it refers to using a hammer to beat out metal into the shape you want it to be – and to the finished hard metal product. That’s why Jerome translated it as “firmament”, because it refers to something hard and solid. It’s also why Job likened it to “polished bronze”…
Proclaimer: This could have been some kind of canopy around the earth which was broken to allow the waters above to joining the water below and cover two-thirds of earth in ocean.
The “water canopy theory” was originally conceived and promoted by people who claimed to be Bible believers, but also wanted to somehow align the Bible’s description of our world with Big Bang, billions of years, Darwinian evolution, and the heliocentric model. In other words, people like you. You can find a lot of scientific debunks of this silly idea at sites like Answers in Genesis and Creation Ministries International, etc.
But just a couple quick thoughts… How were people before the flood able to see the sun, moon, and stars before this “water canopy” that surrounded our ball earth came crashing to the ground during Noah’s day?
And note the underlined words in the Genesis 7 verses above. God opened the windows of the firmament to let the waters above flood the earth – but then God CLOSED the windows to stop the flow of even more water from flooding the earth. See? The teaching doesn’t allow for God somehow unleashing a bunch of heavenly water to the earth until that water was depleted. Opening windows to allow ALL of the water through doesn’t require closing those windows afterwards. That God closed the windows after the earth had been sufficiently flooded implies that there are still waters above the firmament – and this was made know years after Noah’s flood in scripture…
Psalm 148:4… Praise him, highest heaven, and you waters above the heaven.
Proclaimer: Lots of possibilities here including poetic language. It is in no way saying the earth is flat. There is zero reference to a flat earth here.
I’m asking you which of the following two descriptions of the earth better align with a firmament that has windows that can be opened to let the waters above in, and then closed to stop the waters above from entering?
Please answer the question.
Proclaimer: Brilliant. It has everything. Even the square.
And if there is a verse that talks about a triangle, we can simply add it in.
Jesus said he observed God inscribe a circle on the face of the deep.
1. What was the shape of “the face of the deep” that God inscribed a circle onto? After all, the foundations of the earth also include a “cornerstone”, right? Look up what a cornerstone is. So could it have been a square or rectangle that God inscribed a circle onto, telling the waters they can come only this far, and no farther? We aren’t told that in scripture, but any honest person would have to admit that a square is a possibility – since there’s no way we could rule it out based on the info we have.
2. How do you explain God inscribing a circle on the face of the deep and telling the waters they can only come this far in your model?
Mike: Nobody in the history of the world has thought that the Biblical description of a flat earth meant a 2D circle – until you.
Proclaimer: Thank you. We are making progress.
You’re welcome. And I agree that we are indeed making progress… especially now that the only man in the world who thought “flat earth” referred to a 2D circle has been corrected on the matter. (Just so you know for future reference, the “circle of the moon” doesn’t mean that the moon is a PERFECT circle, or that it is necessarily 2D. 😉)
Proclaimer: So your no1 verse for Flat Earth supports the globe because a globe is a 3D circle. Your own statement above debunks your earlier argument that it cannot be a globe because it says ‘circle’.
“He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.”
Which of the following depictions of our world better aligns with Isaiah’s description?
In which of the two can God and 24 elders sit enthroned above everyone on earth?
In which of the two can the heaven be likened to a tent that God spread out for us to live in? (Keep in mind that Isaiah was most certainly familiar with the nomad tents that were everywhere in his day – while a spherical tent is something that has never existed.)
Keep in mind these words from Biblical scholar Barnes…
The phrase ‘circle,’ or ‘circuit of the earth,’ here seems to be used in the same sense as the phrase orbis terrarum by the Latins; not as denoting a sphere, or not as implying that the earth was a globe, but that it was an extended plain surrounded by oceans and mighty waters. The globular form of the earth was then unknown; and the idea is, that God sat above this extended circuit, or circle; and that the vast earth was beneath his feet.
Keep in mind the understanding of every Biblical scholar who, while themselves accepting the heliocentric model, will tell you in no uncertain terms that the Bible is indeed a flat earth book.
Keep in mind that a ball earth wasn’t even a concept until 500 years ago, and even then didn’t become widely accepted until less than a hundred years ago.
Keeping all of these things in mind – and searching the most honest part of your soul – which of the two images above are MORE LIKELY to reflect Isaiah’s understanding of the world while writing that God sits enthroned above the circle of the earth and spreads the heaven out like a tent for us to live in?
That is the question I’m asking you. Please for once just answer THAT question. Thanks.
That last image means little when you consider that nearly everyone is vaccinated. I will repeat that the claim made is the vaccines will lessen transmission and symptoms. I don’t ever remember people being promised 100% protection. That said, at the beginning, people didn’t know a lot because you need time and data to then make claims about such things.
Let’s just take the first one on the list. Are you seriously saying that it was never widely reported that the jabs would prohibit people from catching and spreading Covid? I’ll wait for your answer before providing the evidence.
I don’t remember reports saying that you would be 100% protected. Yes, at the very beginning when a lot of things weren’t known, they said you would be protected. But the very definition of protection doesn’t mean 100% just as a shield in battle is protection, but is not guaranteed to provide 100% protection. Later that needed to be clarified as that is a loose term.
I remember 99% or 97% or whatever efficacy at the beginning. And that dropped as the virus mutated.
You’re welcome. And I agree that we are indeed making progress… especially now that the only man in the world who thought “flat earth” referred to a 2D circle has been corrected on the matter.
I see you missed the point. I will hold your hand and guide you through the point that you have missed multiple times. Don’t feel bad, just put your best foot forward and you will get there.
The point was, you discarded the globe as being a contender, when looking from above at the circle of the earth. Now that you have admitted that no one is saying the earth is 2D, then your argument is defeated by this understanding that you already possess. Well done Mike. We both know that a sphere is a 3D circle. Yay. The circle of the earth = a globe.
In which of the two can God and 24 elders sit enthroned above everyone on earth?
Looking at this through the eyes of the stone age, your model fits. When a person dies and goes to heaven, they are lifted off the rock slab and through the sky. Then they transfer to a submarine, to get through the waters above, and then disembark at a gate to Heaven above.
But, understanding that knowledge will increase and there are higher dimensions and scale, then the globe makes perfect sense. All these exist. Atoms, the globe, galaxies, universe, and heaven. Yes heaven is the highest. The whole of creation I believe is accessible from there. God himself resides outside of his own creation and pervades creation by his Spirit inside every atom or the smallest particles. There are multiple galaxies or heavens and our planet sits inside one of these galaxies.
Further, we sense this world through a small sliver of the electromagnetic spectrum. If we could see all the wavelengths, then I think we would see angels, portals, and many other things in the universe that are invisible to us.
I realise this might be a bit hard to wrap your mind around, so may ignore my words and push the stone age view again.
Mike: A little hard for the above “foundations of the earth” to be “pillars of the community” when mankind hadn’t even been created yet, don’t you think?
Bwahahaha!
Proclaimer, while you are thinking about the above, remember Utter Pradesh in India. They mass-distributed a combination of very cheap medicines to their population – and they remain one of the few places in the world where
You said something similar about Africa I think. Despite that, I am not arguing against drugs that might help.
Keep in mind the understanding of every Biblical scholar who, while themselves accepting the heliocentric model, will tell you in no uncertain terms that the Bible is indeed a flat earth book.
Backed up by the circle of the earth verse and four corners.
Lol.
These people probably think the Bible is also a Trinitarian book. Or they want the Bible to reflect false stone age views about the cosmos so the bible can be debunked. Trouble is, the Bible neither teaches a flat earth as a scientific view nor a Trinitarian view.
People imagine all kinds of things about the Bible. I personally prefer to read it myself. If it isn’t there, i reject such views. Simple.
I’m asking you which of the following two descriptions of the earth better align with a firmament that has windows that can be opened to let the waters above in, and then closed to stop the waters above from entering?
Good question. Proclaimer wants to align his Bible with present day science which is not possible.
To Laurel and Hardy. Thanks for the laughs.
Maybe I can help clarify this all for you.
The atmosphere contains water. Those big white floating cotton wool things are actually clouds which is water in a gaseous state. There is also humidity etc.
It is possible on a primitive earth that the atmosphere contained more water in the past. After all, we have uncovered temperate and subtropical plants specimens in now frozen regions of the earth. This could suggest a warmer earth due to a different atmosphere.
Regardless, what we do know is two-thirds of earth is actually not earth, but water. To think it has always been like that is probably a bit narrow minded. There could have been different concentrations of water on earth and in the atmosphere in the past with many different seal levels over the eons.
Besides all that. When it rains, it does come down in portals if you want to call it that.
Some of these rain portals are just bigger so that you cannot photograph it in its entirety.
Rest assured that if you could photograph a whole rain storm, it would be like this, but on a much wider scale.
You both want the bible to teach flat earth so bad. It is hilarious. Anyone can see your motives so clearly.
One wants to debunk the Bible and not have to worry about God and repentance. The other providing ammunition to help this man ignore God, just so he can feel special like Truman in the Truman Show. One is ignoring God and the other living out a fantasy not caring for another man’s soul .
Make no mistake. God will judge all men and we will give an account for all that we have said and taught. This, no one can escape. All lies will be exposed. It’s just a matter of time.
The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the working of Satan, with every kind of power, sign, and false wonder, and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. For this reason God will send them a powerful delusion so that they believe the lie…
Proclaimer: That last image means little when you consider that nearly everyone is vaccinated. I will repeat that the claim made is the vaccines will lessen transmission and symptoms. I don’t ever remember people being promised 100% protection. That said, at the beginning, people didn’t know a lot because you need time and data to then make claims about such things.
It actually means a lot. It means that the vax doesn’t help at all. It means that you can keep parroting the lie that the injections lessen transmission and symptoms – but the actual data show that this is simply not true – as the vaxxed make up about the same percentage of hospitalizations and deaths too. It means that you didn’t listen closely when the talking heads and leaders of the world told us point blank that if you get your injection, you will NOT GET COVID… PERIOD. (They’ve of course since changed their tune, because the data shows they lied.) And it means that you were injected with a gene-altering mRNA code that tells your body to do things it wouldn’t have otherwise done – all while admitting in the above that you “didn’t know a lot because you need time and data“.
In other words, you went into an experimental, untested protocol blindly – without taking the time to review the data. And to top it off, you openly called those who were smarter than you (and didn’t make this hasty decision based on nothing but empty promises from your overlords) “touters”, and blamed them for infections and lockdowns and other things.
The good news is that the many scientists who are now tracking the adverse reactions based on Pfizer/Moderna batch numbers have found that virtually all of the bad side effects and deaths come from only 5% of the batches unleashed upon the world. That is great news for you. Odds are that you are one of the lucky 95% who got a placebo. And based on the fact that the side effects are almost immediate, I’d say it’s a lock that you did get the placebo instead of the poison.
(Did you ever have your doctor look for your Covid antibodies?)
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