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Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 20 2010,11:32) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 18 2010,21:28) Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 18 2010,14:23) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 16 2010,19:42) Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 16 2010,14:01) So how is that process about brother Kerwin?
You mean to say Jesus was created in the womb of Mary?
Jesus was spcial creation of God like the first Adam?
I suppose you could say that. On the other hand he was probably closer to the creation of Eve since God made her from a part of Adam and Jesus had to have been descended from David through Mary. I assume God used he egg cell but I don't believe I can actually prove that with the evidence presented in scripture.It is not actually that hard of a concept since God does that with species other than man. It is harder to figure out how it resulted in a male offspring. That would have taken a drastic change in the x chromosome as the y chromosome is smaller and structured differently. Still it is no harder to believe than the creation of Adam.
Hi brother Kerwin,
I always appreciate your honest confession on the issues that are not so clear in our Bible. But I want to ask you one thing; Is it so required for Jesus to be born of a Virgin without male involvement to be the son of God?If God said to David in 2 Sam 7:12-14 that one of his descendents will be a son to Him, then why don't we straight away accept that God could father the descendant of David by way of adoption instead of literal fathering?
This could have avoided allegations of Jews on Jesus such as;
-no Virgin birth was prophesied by Isaiah
-God can not be literal flesh and blood father any human being
-God could not invlove himself personally with human female to give birth to a demi-godPlease think over on these lines I am still oriented towards the Jewish views on Jesus origins.
peace to you
adam
Most of those arguments by Jews are straw men arguments since I do not believe 1) God is the literal flesh and blood father any human being or 2) God involved himself personally with human female to give birth to a demi-god,The third one “no Virgin birth was prophesied by Isaiah” is irrelevant. God does what God does whether or not he tells us in advance.
I do not know if adoption would fit the bill as I do not know how adoption was handled in the Jewish culture of the First Century A.D.
Hi brother Kerwin,
I know that you will not agree with such allegations as you are a non-trinitarian. But I wonder why you are so much oriented towards this Virgin Birth when you believe that Jesus was also human like you and me. If you don't believe in the so called original sin you can not justify any abnormal birth to Jesus.If you want please read the famous books like “Faith Strengthened” by Isaac Troki, “Why Jews rejected Jesus, the turning point in the western History” by David Klinghoffer etc. You will realise how the Jews scriptures were misinterpreted to prove Christian dogma. Here I give the links for such books.
1. http://faithstrengthened.org/
2. http://www.amazon.com/Why-Jews-Rejected-Jesus-Turning/dp/0385510217
3. http://www.26reasons.com/reason8.html
Some Jews did not reject Jesus as they are the ones that brought his message to the nations. That was prophesied beforehand. The ones that reject him are the ones whose hearts are darkened. Jesus brought them the promise to actually accomplish all that God commanded and they rejected that promise. No one who hungered and thirsted for righteousness would do that.I do not consider a virgin conception as being abnormal as I consider it a miracle. Why should I question what God chooses to do? I suppose if you mean extremely rare then I will agree. Chimeras, a merger of two humans during gestation, are also rare but they still happen.
I choose to believe what reliable witnesses state. I consider the accounts of Luke and Matthew as reliable witnesses.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 20 2010,16:51) Some Jews did not reject Jesus as they are the ones that brought his message to the nations.
kerwin.
There was only one who was commissioned by Jesus to preach to the 'nations', and that was “paul” (formerly Saul).
He preached salvation by “the Grace of God”, nothing to do with obedience to “the Law”.Also note 2.Cor.3:5-6 …5 (not that we are competent of ourselves, to reckon anything as of ourselves, but our competency is of God),
6 Who also makes us competent dispensers of a new covenant, not of the letter, but of the spirit, for the letter is killing, yet the spirit is vivifying.Notice verse 5 …(not that we are competent of ourselves, to reckon anything as of ourselves, but our competency is of God),
Free will? I think not, “All is of God”>Blessings.
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 20 2010,16:42) hi Goll
do you know what is the spirit of the law?
What do you mean by that?
The Law of God is eternal. God is the source of Law.Choosenoone wrote:
Quote There was only one who was commissioned by Jesus to preach to the 'nations', and that was “paul” (formerly Saul).
He preached salvation by “the Grace of God”, nothing to do with obedience to “the Law”.You perhaps missed the Great Commission, or in particular Matthew 28:19 where Jesus instructed the Eleven to make disciples of all nations. Paul was not one of the Eleven. In Acts 10 the Holy Spirit actually command Peter to go to the Gentiles in the House of Cornelius.
Acts 9:15(NIV) reads:
Quote But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel.
According to this scripture Paul is sent both to the Gentiles and the people of Israel.
Choosenoone wrote:
Quote Free will? I think not, “All is of God”
And yet God made regulations for a “free will” offering. Are you accusing God of making regulations for something that does not exist?
I assume when you state “All is of God” you are referring to this scripture:
1 Corinthians 15:28(NIV) reads:
Quote When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
The word “may” is future tense and is speaking of when everything is done including the defeat of death. Death has yet not been defeated and God is not yet all in all.
Kerwin……..A “FREE WILL offering is a offering from the self, the words “FREE WILL” is Not the subject of those words, it's just a offering free of any requirements of the law. NO where in scripture is the subject of “FREE WILLS” ever addressed, because it doesn't exist. there are (NO) FREE WILLS or there would be (no) WILLS at all. A Will can not exist in a free state. It's only the PRIDE of MAN that demands that because of self glory, men like to think that are the real authors of their salvation by their so-called “FREE WILLS”. IMO
hi gene
Pr 8:17 I love those who love me, and those who seek me find me.
Pr 8:36 But whoever fails to find me harms himself;
all who hate me love death.”d those who seek me find me.this shows you that we have to make choices and you can not choose if you are controlled then you follow only,and i do not talk about free wills, i talk about our free willingness to go to God to serve him,but you deny all those thing because you want to be saved under any condition so sin or no sin keep sinning or not no difference ,in decision making you have to pick based on knowledge only fools do not inquire the consequences of there acts.or they don't care to die or get punished.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 20 2010,18:18) You perhaps missed the Great Commission, or in particular Matthew 28:19 where Jesus instructed the Eleven to make disciples of all nations. Paul was not one of the Eleven. In Acts 10 the Holy Spirit actually command Peter to go to the Gentiles in the House of Cornelius.
kerwin.
You misunderstand what is meant by this passage, you must take it in the context it was written.Matt.5:5 These twelve Jesus commissions, charging them, saying, “Into a road of the nations you may not pass forth, and into a city of the Samaritans you may not be entering.
The following is an explanation for you of Matt.28:19:-
The apostles never went out to all nations. On the contrary, Peter was opposed when he went to the proselyte Cornelius (Ac.11:3). They never baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit. They used the titles of Christ intelligently when they baptized. They used “Jesus Christ” in baptizing Israelites, “Lord Jesus” for Samaritans (Ac.8:16). They never used “Christ Jesus,” the title of His present heavenly glory. They never used the formula here given because they knew that it was reserved for the future kingdom proclamation. They never discipled the nations, as such. The Lord was not with them till the conclusion of that eon, but left them soon after, when He ascended. This commission cannot be carried out until His return in power and glory to bless all nations through His people Israel.
You must “correctly cut the word of truth” (2Tim.2:15)
Blessings.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 20 2010,18:18) According to this scripture Paul is sent both to the Gentiles and the people of Israel.
Kerwin.
Here we have the field and scope of Paul's ministries-first and foremost to the nations, later to kings, and meanwhile to the sons of Israel among the nations.
Notice “to the sons of Israel among the nations.”Blessings.
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 20 2010,17:35) hi CO
i wander if you realy undestand what Paul is talking about?
Hi terraricca.
Do you understand?Blessings.
hi CO
yes i do ,first you should know that Paul always started to go to the Jewish synagogue before starting preaching to the gentiles,Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2010,08:15) hi CO
yes i do ,first you should know that Paul always started to go to the Jewish synagogue before starting preaching to the gentiles,
terraricca.
In the beginning, Peter unlocks the door of the kingdom for the Jews; at the close, Paul, in Rome, shuts the door of the kingdom and locks up Israel in obstinacy.
He did this before starting his ministry to 'all nations'.Blessings.
Quote (chosenone @ Jan. 21 2010,01:28) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 20 2010,18:18) According to this scripture Paul is sent both to the Gentiles and the people of Israel.
Kerwin.
Here we have the field and scope of Paul's ministries-first and foremost to the nations, later to kings, and meanwhile to the sons of Israel among the nations.
Notice “to the sons of Israel among the nations.”Blessings.
That is not what that scripture states. It states he will go to all of them.Here is what Peter stated at the Council of Jerusalem about his ministry to the Gentiles.
Acts 15:6-11(NIV) reads:
Quote The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
He makes a few points of which I shall select but two. The first point is that God makes no distinction between Jews and Gentiles. The second point is that both Jews and Gentiles are saved by grace. From this we know that the same message is obviously preached to both peoples.
As for Paul going exclusively to the Jews, perhaps you are referring to what he told the Macedonian Jews when they rejected him at one synagogue in Acts 18:5-6. It seem that was just referring to a particular group of Jews since by Acts 18:19 He was in a Corinth synagogue reasoning with Jews.
He even went to the Jews in Rome to teach his message in Acts 28 where some believed. To those who rejected his message he quoted a passage from Isaiah and then stated the God's salvation would be has already been sent to the Gentiles who would listen. In verse 38 we are told that he shared the message with all that who came to see him.
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2010,03:15) hi CO
yes i do ,first you should know that Paul always started to go to the Jewish synagogue before starting preaching to the gentiles,
I believe you are correct. He certainly seemed to do that in Macedonia and Rome.Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 21 2010,10:45) He makes a few points of which I shall select but two. The first point is that God makes no distinction between Jews and Gentiles. The second point is that both Jews and Gentiles are saved by grace. From this we know that the same message is obviously preached to both peoples.
kerwin.
These two points I agree with, I never disputed them.Blessings.
kerwin.
I should add that the last part of the statement, “From this we know that the same message is obviously preached to both peoples”, I don't agree. Jesus taught the 'lost sheep of the house of Israel', the gospel of 'the kingdom'. Paul preached to all nations 'the gospel of “Grace”. Two different gospels. The first to Israel, under the “old covenant” of obedience to the 'Law', by Jesus. The second taught by Paul, under the “covenant of the Grace of God”.Blessings.
Quote (chosenone @ Jan. 21 2010,11:03) kerwin.
I should add that the last part of the statement, “From this we know that the same message is obviously preached to both peoples”, I don't agree. Jesus taught the 'lost sheep of the house of Israel', the gospel of 'the kingdom'. Paul preached to all nations 'the gospel of “Grace”. Two different gospels. The first to Israel, under the “old covenant” of obedience to the 'Law', by Jesus. The second taught by Paul, under the “covenant of the Grace of God”.Blessings.
What is the kingdom of God/heaven?hi CO
you right about Paul preaching the gospel of grace,and Christ was preaching the kingdom to the Jews that is why Christ told Peter to go to the Jews ,
the difference is that the kingdom belongs to the Jews and i mean the kingdom in heaven as brother to Jesus to become sons of God,and to become priest in the temple of God in the heavenly Jerusalem,
but since they rejected Christ it seems as Paul explain it there was not enough to accept the offer that was Given to them that they had lost it to the gentiles,to make the number complete ,today Christians believe to go to heaven but i don't think so ,we will be on earth the new earth and the new heaven and govern by the heavenly Jerusalem.
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