Come into the world

[martian]

I will be posting several quotes on the subjects of Christ.

http://www.intergate.com/~jcordaro/preexist%3f.html

Yahweh Sent His Son

The New Testament uses several phrases that would suggest that our Savior existed as a being in heaven prior to his earthly birth. Among those phrases are; “sent His Son,” “sent into the world,” “not of this world,” “came into the world,” and “came down from heaven.” Let's examine “sent His Son” and “sent into the world” first, since both phrases appear in 1 Jn.4:9,10; “In this was manifested the love of Yahweh toward us, because that Yahweh sent his only begotten Son into the world , that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved Yahweh, but that he loved us, and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.” A superficial reading would lead one to believe that Yahshua was at Yahweh's side somewhere out of this world and eventually was commanded by Yahweh to come to our planet which he obediently did.

In Ps.78:45 it says Yahweh sent flies upon the Egyptians prior to the exodus of Israel. Are we to believe that these flies were living in heaven prior to their arrival in Egypt? Jn.1:6 tells us that John the Baptist was also “sent from Yahweh.” Surely none believe that John pre-existed at Yahweh's side. Notice this verse does not say “sent by Yahweh,” but “from Yahweh.” A word study of how “sent” was used in Scripture will reveal how Yahweh sent many earthly messengers and prophets to do His will. None of them, however, pre-existed in heaven.

Jn.17:18 helps us to understand the phrase “sent into the world.” It reads, “As thou hast sent me into the world , even so have I also sent them into the world. ” Obviously, the disciples were not living outside of this world prior to Yahshua sending them into the world. Neither should we believe that Yahshua existed in some other world before being sent by Yahweh into this world.
“Came into the world” is used in 1 Tim.1:15; “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Messiah Yahshua came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.” The same phrase is used of all men when they are born. Jn.1:9 reads, “That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. ” And again in 1 Tim.6:7; “For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.” So when Heb. 1:6 says, “And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of [Yahweh] worship him,” it is talking about the Messiah's earthly birth.

In Jn.8:23, Yahshua said, “Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.” This certainly seems to indicate an existence in another world before coming to this world. This verse is to be understood the same way we are to understand Jn.15:19; “If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world , but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.” Yahshua chose his disciples out of the world, therefore, they were not of this world. Yahshua said similar words in Jn.17:14; “I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world , even as I am not of the world.” Yahshua is not of this world because Yahweh chose Him out of the world.

[barley]

Quote (martian @ Aug. 08 2010,03:52)

I will be posting several quotes on the subjects of Christ. http://www.intergate.com/~jcordaro/preexist%3f.html Yahweh Sent His Son The New Testament uses several phrases that would suggest that our Savior existed as a being in heaven prior to his earthly birth. Among those phrases are; “sent His Son,” “sent into the world,” “not of this world,” “came into the world,” and “came down from heaven.” Let's examine “sent His Son” and “sent into the world” first, since both phrases appear in 1 Jn.4:9,10; “In this was manifested the love of Yahweh toward us, because that Yahweh sent his only begotten Son into the world , that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved Yahweh, but that he loved us, and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.” A superficial reading would lead one to believe that Yahshua was at Yahweh's side somewhere out of this world and eventually was commanded by Yahweh to come to our planet which he obediently did. In Ps.78:45 it says Yahweh sent flies upon the Egyptians prior to the exodus of Israel. Are we to believe that these flies were living in heaven prior to their arrival in Egypt? Jn.1:6 tells us that John the Baptist was also “sent from Yahweh.” Surely none believe that John pre-existed at Yahweh's side. Notice this verse does not say “sent by Yahweh,” but “from Yahweh.” A word study of how “sent” was used in Scripture will reveal how Yahweh sent many earthly messengers and prophets to do His will. None of them, however, pre-existed in heaven. Jn.17:18 helps us to understand the phrase “sent into the world.” It reads, “As thou hast sent me into the world , even so have I also sent them into the world. ” Obviously, the disciples were not living outside of this world prior to Yahshua sending them into the world. Neither should we believe that Yahshua existed in some other world before being sent by Yahweh into this world. “Came into the world” is used in 1 Tim.1:15; “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Messiah Yahshua came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.” The same phrase is used of all men when they are born. Jn.1:9 reads, “That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. ” And again in 1 Tim.6:7; “For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.” So when Heb. 1:6 says, “And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of [Yahweh] worship him,” it is talking about the Messiah's earthly birth. In Jn.8:23, Yahshua said, “Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.” This certainly seems to indicate an existence in another world before coming to this world. This verse is to be understood the same way we are to understand Jn.15:19; “If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world , but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.” Yahshua chose his disciples out of the world, therefore, they were not of this world. Yahshua said similar words in Jn.17:14; “I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world , even as I am not of the world.” Yahshua is not of this world because Yahweh chose Him out of the world.

Martian,

Very well done!

It is a pleasure to read your posts.  

You have gone to the scriptures to find out what scriptures have to say.  Nehemiah 8:8

You have not gone to scriptures to find support for what you think scriptures ought to have said, or what you would like to believe.

You have done honest and commendable work.  II Timothy 2:15.

You have gone to the scriptures to let it speak for itself, instead of privately interpreting it.  II Peter 1:20.

Thanks for the time and effort that you have put into this study.

barley

Just in case other readers do not understand.  I really like Martian's unbiased handling of the scriptures.

[JustAskin]

Barley,

I think you have put it quite clearly, succinctly and pointedly.

And Martian, this post is good but:
– What is your point?
– Who are you hoping to convince that is not already convinced?
– Who is your audience?

[martian]

Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 08 2010,10:20)

Barley, I think you have put it quite  clearly, succinctly and pointedly. And Martian, this post is good but:  – What is your point?  – Who are you hoping to convince that is not already convinced?  – Who is your audience?

I am attempting to reach those that really ant to know how to research the word without dishonesty. It seems that many that claim to do research on here haven't a clue how to do it. I am showing the difference between honest research to learn truth and dishonest readings to produce something that can be twisted into proof.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (barley @ Aug. 08 2010,06:33)

Quote (martian @ Aug. 08 2010,03:52) I will be posting several quotes on the subjects of Christ. http://www.intergate.com/~jcordaro/preexist%3f.html Yahweh Sent His Son The New Testament uses several phrases that would suggest that our Savior existed as a being in heaven prior to his earthly birth. Among those phrases are; “sent His Son,” “sent into the world,” “not of this world,” “came into the world,” and “came down from heaven.” Let's examine “sent His Son” and “sent into the world” first, since both phrases appear in 1 Jn.4:9,10; “In this was manifested the love of Yahweh toward us, because that Yahweh sent his only begotten Son into the world , that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved Yahweh, but that he loved us, and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.” A superficial reading would lead one to believe that Yahshua was at Yahweh's side somewhere out of this world and eventually was commanded by Yahweh to come to our planet which he obediently did. In Ps.78:45 it says Yahweh sent flies upon the Egyptians prior to the exodus of Israel. Are we to believe that these flies were living in heaven prior to their arrival in Egypt? Jn.1:6 tells us that John the Baptist was also “sent from Yahweh.” Surely none believe that John pre-existed at Yahweh's side. Notice this verse does not say “sent by Yahweh,” but “from Yahweh.” A word study of how “sent” was used in Scripture will reveal how Yahweh sent many earthly messengers and prophets to do His will. None of them, however, pre-existed in heaven. Jn.17:18 helps us to understand the phrase “sent into the world.” It reads, “As thou hast sent me into the world , even so have I also sent them into the world. ” Obviously, the disciples were not living outside of this world prior to Yahshua sending them into the world. Neither should we believe that Yahshua existed in some other world before being sent by Yahweh into this world. “Came into the world” is used in 1 Tim.1:15; “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Messiah Yahshua came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.” The same phrase is used of all men when they are born. Jn.1:9 reads, “That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. ” And again in 1 Tim.6:7; “For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.” So when Heb. 1:6 says, “And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of [Yahweh] worship him,” it is talking about the Messiah's earthly birth. In Jn.8:23, Yahshua said, “Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.” This certainly seems to indicate an existence in another world before coming to this world. This verse is to be understood the same way we are to understand Jn.15:19; “If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world , but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.” Yahshua chose his disciples out of the world, therefore, they were not of this world. Yahshua said similar words in Jn.17:14; “I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world , even as I am not of the world.” Yahshua is not of this world because Yahweh chose Him out of the world. Martian, Very well done! It is a pleasure to read your posts.   You have gone to the scriptures to find out what scriptures have to say.  Nehemiah 8:8 You have not gone to scriptures to find support for what you think scriptures ought to have said, or what you would like to believe. You have done honest and commendable work.  II Timothy 2:15. You have gone to the scriptures to let it speak for itself, instead of privately interpreting it.  II Peter 1:20. Thanks for the time and effort that you have put into this study. barley Just in case other readers do not understand.  I really like Martian's unbiased handling of the scriptures.

martian………..I agree with barely good Job brother, i wish i had you ability to present thing so clearly brother, you and barely are both good teachers of God's word. To me it is obvious the Spirit of God is with you both and guiding the sound reasonings of your minds. May the LORD continue to give you both sound understandings as you both expound them to us.

martian i am glad your not getting discouraged here and are continuing to post brother, I know it must be hard to do at times with you being diabetic, but it will definitely bring to you honor in time brother. I have prayed to GOD our Father to help you.

peace and love to you and yours brother………………..gene

[martian]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 09 2010,01:48)

Quote (barley @ Aug. 08 2010,06:33) Quote (martian @ Aug. 08 2010,03:52) I will be posting several quotes on the subjects of Christ. http://www.intergate.com/~jcordaro/preexist%3f.html Yahweh Sent His Son The New Testament uses several phrases that would suggest that our Savior existed as a being in heaven prior to his earthly birth. Among those phrases are; “sent His Son,” “sent into the world,” “not of this world,” “came into the world,” and “came down from heaven.” Let's examine “sent His Son” and “sent into the world” first, since both phrases appear in 1 Jn.4:9,10; “In this was manifested the love of Yahweh toward us, because that Yahweh sent his only begotten Son into the world , that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved Yahweh, but that he loved us, and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.” A superficial reading would lead one to believe that Yahshua was at Yahweh's side somewhere out of this world and eventually was commanded by Yahweh to come to our planet which he obediently did. In Ps.78:45 it says Yahweh sent flies upon the Egyptians prior to the exodus of Israel. Are we to believe that these flies were living in heaven prior to their arrival in Egypt? Jn.1:6 tells us that John the Baptist was also “sent from Yahweh.” Surely none believe that John pre-existed at Yahweh's side. Notice this verse does not say “sent by Yahweh,” but “from Yahweh.” A word study of how “sent” was used in Scripture will reveal how Yahweh sent many earthly messengers and prophets to do His will. None of them, however, pre-existed in heaven. Jn.17:18 helps us to understand the phrase “sent into the world.” It reads, “As thou hast sent me into the world , even so have I also sent them into the world. ” Obviously, the disciples were not living outside of this world prior to Yahshua sending them into the world. Neither should we believe that Yahshua existed in some other world before being sent by Yahweh into this world. “Came into the world” is used in 1 Tim.1:15; “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Messiah Yahshua came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.” The same phrase is used of all men when they are born. Jn.1:9 reads, “That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. ” And again in 1 Tim.6:7; “For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.” So when Heb. 1:6 says, “And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of [Yahweh] worship him,” it is talking about the Messiah's earthly birth. In Jn.8:23, Yahshua said, “Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.” This certainly seems to indicate an existence in another world before coming to this world. This verse is to be understood the same way we are to understand Jn.15:19; “If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world , but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.” Yahshua chose his disciples out of the world, therefore, they were not of this world. Yahshua said similar words in Jn.17:14; “I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world , even as I am not of the world.” Yahshua is not of this world because Yahweh chose Him out of the world. Martian, Very well done! It is a pleasure to read your posts.   You have gone to the scriptures to find out what scriptures have to say.  Nehemiah 8:8 You have not gone to scriptures to find support for what you think scriptures ought to have said, or what you would like to believe. You have done honest and commendable work.  II Timothy 2:15. You have gone to the scriptures to let it speak for itself, instead of privately interpreting it.  II Peter 1:20. Thanks for the time and effort that you have put into this study. barley Just in case other readers do not understand.  I really like Martian's unbiased handling of the scriptures. martian………..I agree with barely good Job brother, i wish i had you ability to present thing so clearly brother, you and barely are both good teachers of God's word. To me it is obvious the Spirit of God is with you both and guiding the sound reasonings of your minds. May the LORD continue to give you both sound understandings as you both expound them to us. martian i am glad your not getting discouraged here and are continuing to post brother, I know it must be hard to do at times with you being diabetic,  but it will definitely bring to you honor in time brother. I have prayed to GOD our Father to help you. peace and love to you and yours brother………………..gene

Thanks Gene. I pick an choose where I will spend my time. I guess Mike and others will make something of that. They can stick their heads in a barrel and shout if it makes them happy. No one cares to hear them but themselves.

[Proclaimer]

Martian, I think most are already aware of what you are saying here and probably agree with most of it.

But I personally do not take these scriptures as the foundation of Jesus existence before he emptied himself.

Without turning this topic into a duplicate of the Pre-existence thread, I would like to say that your post above does nothing to nullify the teaching that Jesus existed before Abraham, that he had glory with the Father before the world began, and that God made all things through him and for him. The Word of Life was with the Father in the beginning. This is what we believe and we believe it because it is written.

[GeneBalthrop]

T8………Yes it does , but you are not accepting the understanding Martian is sharing with us. Please reconsider you position on Jesus' preexistence , and we are not saying Jesus did not (Preexist) in the Plan, will and purpose of God, remember that. But at the time Jesus came into existence , that is the what we are talking about here. Brother.

peace and love to you and yours……………….gene

[Author]

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