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Quote With your definition of the “antichrist” comes the dilemna that
many would be labeled as such. I think aboout the varience of understanding surrounding Jn.1:1. I we saying taht the ones who interpret pre-existence incorrectly (whomever that may be) are then “antichrists?SEEKING, good question.
Have you considered this:
MATTHEW 7:21-23
““Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.”Many wrongly believe that they are on Christ's side, when in fact, they are workers of lawlessness. They have let themselves be deceived.
Remember, Jesus said: “He that is not on my side is against me,” (lu 11:23)
If you are “against” Christ, then you are by definition, anti-Christ. Yes, there are a lot of anti-Christs, just as the Bible indicates.Quote I often wonder if we are not to give some space for learniing: ACTS 17:30
“True, God has overlooked the times of such ignorance, yet now he is telling mankind that they should all everywhere repent.”Quote When we quickly label others and speak condecendingly of their understanding it seems to remove all hopes of discussion. Your thoughts?
Of course. It's often best to commend them for whatever they did right. Then, only take one point at a time.
Quote (david @ Jan. 27 2009,08:07) MATTHEW 7:21-23
““Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.”
David,Jesus also said, in that context –
By their fruit you will recognize them. (Mt.7:16)
When the Bible mention good and bad fruit it seems to be specific:
GAL 5:19-21 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
GAL 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Would you say that ones with less than accurate understanding are displaying the bad fruit Jesus spoke of? It seems that leaves no room for growng in grace and knowledge
(2Pet. 3:18).Paul said our knowledge is sometimes unequal and puffs up –
1COR 8:1, 10-12 Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? 11 So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12 When you sin against your brother in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.
Are you saying that someone who follows Christ but has a flaw in some of their understanding is antichrist? It seems to be Jesus condemns a contemptous attitude toward Him and not simple misinterpretation of scripture. Again I would propose the case of Apollos (Acts (Acts 18:24-26) as an example. The fact that Priscilla and Aquila had Apollos into their home perhaps says much about their attitude.
Seeking
Quote Are you saying that someone who follows Christ but has a flaw in some of their understanding is antichrist? I'm saying simply what that scripture in Matthew said. Many think they are on Christ's side, but are not doing the things Jesus commanded them. (The preaching work is a good example–Matthew 28:19,20; Matthew 24:14)
“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. “
Many people for example go to church all the time. But they have no idea what God's will is. Their road seems easy. Many people say they know God, but haven't spent enough time with the Bible to know he has a name.
Quote (david @ Jan. 27 2009,13:12) Quote Are you saying that someone who follows Christ but has a flaw in some of their understanding is antichrist? I'm saying simply what that scripture in Matthew said. Many think they are on Christ's side, but are not doing the things Jesus commanded them. (The preaching work is a good example–Matthew 28:19,20; Matthew 24:14)
“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. “
Many people for example go to church all the time. But they have no idea what God's will is. Their road seems easy. Many people say they know God, but haven't spent enough time with the Bible to know he has a name.
David,Thanks for the clarification. My thoughts were that we all come short in one way or another. At what point do we label others? Jesus, again in the context, says the gauge is fruit. Doctrinal differences and undersatanding seem to justify
grace and teaching as in the examples I cited.I agree that we don't “preach the word” as we should. I do see that that problem lies more with the “pulpit than the pew” so to speak,
Eph. 4:11-13 (KJV)
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:Granted, some may refuse to be taught and prefer to warm a pew – but, how often does the pew fail in its equipping ministry! It seems everyone considers themselves called, anointed, prophets, bishops, etc.
My struggle is with labeling a saint who does study, search, and seek and arrive at some less than complete conclusions
(Apollos) as “antichrist”.It seems “antichrist” will attempt to be put in the place of Christ. “Antichrist” it seems will not accept Jesus as Lord, Savior, Sacrifice, come in the flesh, etc. That does not seem to fit the erring pew warmer or mistaken student of the word.
This discussion is regarding “claims of the antichrists identity”.
Do I understand you correctly that, while as you point out,
many may follow Christ encompletely – and even to their great loss – you are not necessarily labeling them as “antichrist.?Seeking
[/B]
Quote (SEEKING @ Jan. 28 2009,00:51) Quote (david @ Jan. 27 2009,13:12) Quote Are you saying that someone who follows Christ but has a flaw in some of their understanding is antichrist? I'm saying simply what that scripture in Matthew said. Many think they are on Christ's side, but are not doing the things Jesus commanded them. (The preaching work is a good example–Matthew 28:19,20; Matthew 24:14)
“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. “
Many people for example go to church all the time. But they have no idea what God's will is. Their road seems easy. Many people say they know God, but haven't spent enough time with the Bible to know he has a name.
David,Thanks for the clarification. My thoughts were that we all come short in one way or another. At what point do we label others? Jesus, again in the context, says the gauge is fruit. Doctrinal differences and undersatanding seem to justify
grace and teaching as in the examples I cited.I agree that we don't “preach the word” as we should. I do see that that problem lies more with the “pulpit than the pew” so to speak,
Eph. 4:11-13 (KJV)
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:Granted, some may refuse to be taught and prefer to warm a pew – but, how often does the pew fail in its equipping ministry! It seems everyone considers themselves called, anointed, prophets, bishops, etc.
My struggle is with labeling a saint who does study, search, and seek and arrive at some less than complete conclusions
(Apollos) as “antichrist”.It seems “antichrist” will attempt to be put in the place of Christ. “Antichrist” it seems will not accept Jesus as Lord, Savior, Sacrifice, come in the flesh, etc. That does not seem to fit the erring pew warmer or mistaken student of the word.
This discussion is regarding “claims of the antichrists identity”.
Do I understand you correctly that, while as you point out,
many may follow Christ encompletely – and even to their great loss – you are not necessarily labeling them as “antichrist.?Seeking
[/B]
This should read, “how often does the pulpit fail…”Quote (SEEKING @ Jan. 28 2009,00:53) but, how often does the pew fail in its equipping ministry! [/B][/quote]
This should read, “how often does the pulpit fail…”
I'll get this right yet, perhaps. My last post should have been edited to read:“but, how often does the pulpit fail in its equipping ministry.
Sorry!
Seeking if you ask t8 for editing rights you would be able to correct your post without any problems.
Peace and Love Irene
Just like I just did because of a spelling error.Quote (Cindy @ Jan. 27 2009,09:35) Seeking if you ask t8 for editing rights you would be able to correct your post without any problems.
Peace and Love Irene
Just like I just did because of a spelling error.
Thanks Cindy. I have a lot to learn about the mechanics!Quote (Cindy @ Jan. 27 2009,09:35) Seeking if you ask t8 for editing rights you would be able to correct your post without any problems.
Peace and Love Irene
Just like I just did because of a spelling error.
T8,I would like editing writes as Cindy mentioned. Once granted I'll have to learn to use them. Thanks T8.
Seeking
Quote Do I understand you correctly that, while as you point out,
many may follow Christ encompletely – and even to their great loss – you are not necessarily labeling them as “antichrist.?I would tend not to label any individual as an antichrist. Then again, if you are speaking “against” “Christ” you are an anti-Christ.
What I'm saying, that I'm not sure you have touched upon, is that people in general, while making a show of Christianity, are not willing to take up their torture stake.
A person may know for instance that Christmas is based on paganism and lies and that Jesus hated both.
Yet, they like the “fun” and “tradition” of Christmas more than they want to honor Christ. The Bible makes a point of saying some have a zeal for God, but not according to accurate knowledge. It seems having zeal is not enough. If you are zealous for God, that should motivate you to learn about him–learn what he likes and dislikes–what he approves and doesn't approve–etc.Everyone can say this or that. Half of the U.S. population believes they are “born again.” But, can you imagine what the U.S. would be like if they actually were. It would be a much better place. But they have deceived themselves, or let themselves be deceived.
It's easier to believe lies and let your ears be tickled.Here is an example of someone who claims to believe in God, but questions that authenticity and validity of the bible, and hence, of the things Jesus did and said. He would seem to be against Jesus.
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….50;st=0Quote (david @ Jan. 27 2009,12:10) I would tend not to label any individual as an antichrist. Then again, if you are speaking “against” “Christ” you are an anti-Christ.
What I'm saying, that I'm not sure you have touched upon, is that people in general, while making a show of Christianity, are not willing to take up their torture stake.
Amen! Gotcha!Seeking
Seeking You need to go to Feed, Chat,, Feedback,Help section and go to Editing right, there t8 will answer you.
Love IreneQuote (Cindy @ Jan. 27 2009,13:00) Seeking You need to go to Feed, Chat,, Feedback,Help section and go to Editing right, there t8 will answer you.
Love Irene
Irene,Thanks again!
Blessings – Seeking
Hi David,
LOL okayyyy Im an Anti-Christ
Reminds me of someone a while back that said “if youre wondering who the Anti-Christ is, go take a look in the mirror…” lolI dont think the Anti-Christ is a person. I think its a 'movement'. Whether it be spiritual, political or what i dont know.
Do I have to find scriptures to back up my opinion?
Quote I dont think the Anti-Christ is a person. —pheonix.
Nor do I think it is “a” person, as if it were one person who fulfills this role.
Anti-Christ means “against” Christ. The Bible says there were “many” antichrist's, even in the apostles days.
To all
Thee Antichrist is the one who claims he is here instead of Christ; “Vicar of the Son of God”.
Georg
1Jo 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Many say that Jesus came as a pre-existing spirit son, but scripture does not know that term, and states clearly that Jesus came as flesh PERIOD.
Those who teach Jesus as pre-existing either through being part of a Trinity god or as a spirit son, in my understanding are of the antichrist.
We know of no JESUS, prior to the human infant born to Mary. Jesus was the name given to an infant boy. There is no spirit son in existence, prior to the infant, who was named Jesus. This infant that was anointed with the Holy Spirit, was flesh. God's plan that was laid out from the beginning, told to us in Romans 5, says that as one man brought sin into the world another MAN would remove it. From the beginning the plan is not said to be that God would send a spirit son. The plan was that God would bring Jesus, an infant human being who would be anointed with God's Spirit.
I believe that the above scriptures are directly declaring to us NO pre-existence.
Scripture tells us that Jesus came from heaven, that he came down as the bread from heaven, comparing himself to the bread that came from heaven to the Israelites when they were in the wilderness. Just as the bread was made from the dew on earth, Jesus came from his mothers womb on earth. Both the bread that saved the Israelites and the bread that saved all of mankind from their sins, came directly from God, thus coming down from heaven.
Notice how the above scriptures do not say that Jesus was coming as an already living spirit, but he came strictly as flesh.
The scriptures do not say that anyone who does not believe that the spirit son came in the flesh is of the antichrist.
I long for the day God brings man out from his own deceptions.
The Pope is an antichrist, along with all others who believe that Jesus pre-existed.
Jodi
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
How can you give what you don't have?
Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
How can you send a son you don't have?
Luk 8:27 And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs.
Luk 8:28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.Even these devils recognized Jesus as the son of God. Our blindness at times can be deliberate.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Who would you suggest is the image, and first born, that created all things?
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
What is the book called from where you get your information?
Georg
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