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Hi rebellman,
Welcome to H-net.
Rebel is spelled with only one “L”.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (rebellman @ Oct. 21 2011,11:25) I hope that I have not thoroughly offended everyone, but this is a subject that I have studied for more than 40 years and I tend to be somewhat passionate about it. At this moment I don't really know how this subject would be best approached and maybe I'm out of line here and should be making this argument in a different thread, but I can say of a certainty that it is unlikely that either side will be able to prove anything in this manner.
Hi Rebellman,Have you considered that the reason may be because
there may be aspects of truth in both of these ideas
(both the Trinitarian and the non-Trinitarian idea)?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgRebellman
welcome to HN
Quote I hope that I have not thoroughly offended everyone, but this is a subject that I have studied for more than 40 years and I tend to be somewhat passionate about it. At this moment I don't really know how this subject would be best approached and maybe I'm out of line here and should be making this argument in a different thread, but I can say of a certainty that it is unlikely that either side will be able to prove anything in this manner. I am glad that at the least you do not believe in the trinity.do you believe in the preexistence of Christ
Quote but I can say of a certainty that it is unlikely that either side will be able to prove anything in this manner I do believe it can be proven that the trinity does not exist ;but the other side must believe in scriptures ,other wise you can not prove anything to no one,
it seems to me that when you ask questions like what is or who is the holy spirit
no one knows or tells their own opinion,or why is it the way that things are unfolding ??why is it that it take so long ??
why is Christ ad to give up his man like live ??
why Christ made and teaches apostles ??
if God is love why is he deployed it in the way it does ??
those are but a few questions
Pierre
FYI Ed J
rebellman is a moniker and as such can be spelled any way one chooses, however in this case rebell is an acronym derived from my name: r(ichard)e(dward)bell(my last name). There is a long and irrelevant story connected to why my name is Richard Edward Bell, which is not my birth name.Quote “Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” ~ JEHOVAH GOD This has not been my experience, so I guess that means (to you at least) I'm not really a Christian; saved; have the Holy Spirit or whatever.
terraricca
I'm not sure what you mean by “the preexistence of Christ,” as Chirst merely means “the annointed one” and is not Yeshua's (Joshua's) last name as so many Christians seem to think. (Yes, I am one of those that take, if not offense, at least exception to using the name Jesus, but that's a whole other study.) Therefore, I believe in the “preexistence” of Christ only in the sense that from the beginning God knew he was going to have a “Christ.” Prior to the incarnation of (for the sake of expediency) Jesus, the “Word” was God. I believe that the “Word” was an attribute of God and not some secondary personality as is proposed by trinitarians.
To me, the Holy Spirit is God, but not a separate personality. God is Holy and Spirit, therefore by definition Holy Spirit is God, but in the sense used in the NT, the essence of God that dwells with the believer. Unfortunately, due to the inadequecy of human understanding and the limitations of language, it is difficult, if not impossible, to clearly define what that entails and how it works.
Where trinitarians go wrong is that they don't understand why it was necessary for God to create “Jesus” in the first place. Because they think that God's omnipotence means that he can do virtually anything, they erroneously believe that God can do things contrary to his basic nature and so can die as Christ did. The most oft quoted verse in support of “Trinity” is Jn. 10:30 “I and the Father are one.” But taken in context it becomes clear that “Jesus” is explaining why he is not the Father.
Jn 10:30-38 (NIV) [30] I and the Father are one.” [31] Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, [32] but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” [33] “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” [34] Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? [35] If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came — and the Scripture cannot be broken— [36] what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? [37] Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. [38] But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”
In the KJV, verse 36: Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? The word “sanctified” does not mean, as most trinitarians and many others believe, “to make holy.” However, the English word “sanctification” is derived from the Latin noun sanctificio. Its most generic Latin meaning is “to separate and set aside.” This is one of the few times when the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) got it right. In light of another passage that is commonly used to “prove” “Trinity,” Jn. 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,” one sees that God “separated and set aside” the Word. With verse 14: “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth,” John clearly shows that the “Word” (that attribute of God) “was made (literally “made to be”) flesh.” This is the new creation, or as Paul states, the last Adam, wherein Paul asserts, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,” (1 Ti 2:5 NIV). God, needing a perfect sacrifice, took from the only thing that is perfectly holy, himself. He separated from himself the Word (whatever that entails) and caused it to become flesh, the human man “Jesus.”
Quote why is it that it take so long ?? why is Christ ad to give up his man like live ??
why Christ made and teaches apostles ??
if God is love why is he deployed it in the way it does ??
I am having a bit of difficulty understanding the above questions and I am hoping this is because English is not you first language and not just grammatical laziness. But if “why is it that it take so long ??” is asking why it has been ±2000 years since Christ ascended and he still has yet to return, there is not a simple explanation. The short answer, to me, is that because of “free will” things must unfold based on the decisions everybody has made, are making and will make until the time is right for that return, hence the parable of the fig tree. However, that idea begs many questions concerning God's foreknowledge (omniscience) and predestination as Paul discusses in Romans 8:29, 30 and 9:18-24. But, I think that is best left for another time and another thread.
rebellman
Quote I am having a bit of difficulty understanding the above questions and I am hoping this is because English is not you first language and not just grammatical laziness. But if “why is it that it take so long ??” is asking why it has been ±2000 years since Christ ascended and he still has yet to return, there is not a simple explanation. The short answer, to me, is that because of “free will” things must unfold based on the decisions everybody has made, are making and will make until the time is right for that return, you have it right but the start would be from Adam to now,
hence the parable of the fig tree.??? what is that
Pierre
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 17 2011,20:15) Mike, it's the 'fruit' that matters in the end you know. Doctrine doesn't.
God will look on the heart and intentions of all, no matter what you know.
Hi Shimmer,Following the commands of God and the one He appointed as Lord and King matter greatly.
Your statement makes it seem that as long as I worshipped Satan with “good intentions”, God would be okay with it.
I think you are wrong.
peace,
mikeQuote (rebellman @ Oct. 20 2011,18:25) I have to agree with Mike……….. I hope that I have not thoroughly offended everyone……….
No offense taken here!
Quote (rebellman @ Oct. 22 2011,05:11) Quote “Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” ~ JEHOVAH GOD This has not been my experience, so I guess that means (to you at least) I'm not really a Christian; saved; have the Holy Spirit or whatever.
Hi Richard,You seem a little bitter perhaps, but
that doesn't preclude you from being a Christian.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (rebellman @ Oct. 22 2011,05:11) terraricca I'm not sure what you mean by “the preexistence of Christ,” as Chirst merely means “the annointed one” and is not Yeshua's (Joshua's) last name as so many Christians seem to think. (Yes, I am one of those that take, if not offense, at least exception to using the name Jesus, but that's a whole other study.)
Hi Richard,JESUS is Pronounced in the Hebrew: [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă ANOTHER COUNTERFEIT NAME IS [ישוע] Yəsh-yü-ă !
The Hebrew word [ישוע] Yəsh-yü-ă merely means ‘He will save’. Distancing [יה]’s (YÄ's) salvation
from the man Jesus is a rejection of Jesus=74 as Messiah=74. This subtle distinction of [ישוע] Yəsh-yü-ă
purposely substituted for [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă usually goes unnoticed when heard by a non Hebrew-speaking person;
nevertheless, this wholly implies a specific denial of Jesus as Lord and Savior.Jesus’ authentic Name [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă has a direct connection to GOD’s name [יה]
in that YÄ is the first part of Jesus’ “REAL” name. GOD’s name is not vocalized
in the English translation of the name Jesus and therefore misses the precise exactness
and direct authentic connection to God’s Hebrew name [יה] YÄ. Jesus’ Name in Hebrew
יהשוע means: (“YÄ is salvation” [יה]+[ישע]=[יהשוע]) the salvation of [GOD the Father=117].
[יהשוע] “Jesus” REAL name authentically establishes [יהוה] “JEHOVAH” as the highest Name. (Psalm 83:18)(Phil. 2:9,11: Wherefore [Holy Spirit] has highly exalted [Jesus] giving Him a name
which is above every name, to the glory of [GOD The Father=117].) Neither is there salvation
in any other name: for there is no other name given among men (יהשוע), whereby we must be
saved. (Acts 4:12) People speaking fluent Hebrew know that in essence, [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă
means: “YÄ is Savior”. The Name of [GOD=26] is [יהוה=26] spoken as [YÄ=26]; and “YÄ-hä-vā”!“The Savior”=117 is “GOD The Father”=117, (117=”יהוה האלהים” YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL- ō-Hêêm)!
And He is Savior to all who walk the ground! “JEHOVAH GOD”; and there is ‘NO’ other! (Isaiah 43:11)Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים=117 (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org …(Eccl.9:12-16)Quote (rebellman @ Oct. 22 2011,05:11) To me, the Holy Spirit is God, but not a separate personality. God is Holy and Spirit, therefore by definition Holy Spirit is God…
Hi Richard,Pretty simple, huh? …why do others have such trouble coming to this obvious simple conclusion?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (rebellman @ Oct. 22 2011,05:11) Quote why is it that it take so long ?? why is Christ ad to give up his man like live ??
why Christ made and teaches apostles ??
if God is love why is he deployed it in the way it does ??
I am having a bit of difficulty understanding the above questions and I am hoping this is because English is not you first language and not just grammatical laziness. But if “why is it that it take so long ??” is asking why it has been ±2000 years since Christ ascended and he still has yet to return, there is not a simple explanation. The short answer, to me, is that because of “free will” things must unfold based on the decisions everybody has made, are making and will make until the time is right for that return, hence the parable of the fig tree. However, that idea begs many questions concerning God's foreknowledge (omniscience) and predestination as Paul discusses in Romans 8:29, 30 and 9:18-24. But, I think that is best left for another time and another thread.
Hi Richard,Please explain why you believe a flesh return is not indeed throwing out 2Cor.5:16? (Link)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 27 2011,10:41) Charles? Mark?
So sorry to be so long Mike. I believe that we came to a disagreement on what “in the beginning” was. (John 1:1) You said that since it was used elsewhere by Jesus “you have been with me from the beginning” it ment that it didn't imply forever ago. I stated it did, as Jesus was part of God from God's beginning, and the Universe's beginning. I showed where Genisis' opening of “in the beginning” was before the sun was made(no light), and the earth had no form( no world). IMHO the beginning, where Jesus came from too. You IMO, vainly then try to assert that you understand God and define Jesus and when he came to be in existance. I think you are not infallible, like the Pope, and to trust either one of you would make me idolatrious. I go with what my heart tells me and that is that Jesus was with God in the beginning, and in the fullness of time was born to save me, and is now again part of God, watching me, helping me, and guiding me. Declare youself whatever you want. What God will tell you after we are on the other side is what counts. You will listen to him, and it will be Jesus. You will bend your knee and fall on your face and worship him. Maybe if I'm lucky I'll lick the dust at his feet. Peace and love Mike-MarkHi Mark,
We were in the middle of so many great points before the new server situation! I find it funny that you want to believe the word “beginning” in John 1:1 refers to “the beginning of eternity”, which is itself a contradiction in terms. And I find it odd that you don't consider yourself vain for believing this, but DO consider me vain for not believing it.
But let's start anew with this statement you just made:
Quote Jesus was with God in the beginning, and in the fullness of time was born to save me, and is now again part of God………. Mark, does God Almighty have a God of His own? YES or NO?
peace,
mikeQuote (theodorej @ Oct. 20 2011,01:24) Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 18 2011,13:15)
Mike, it's the 'fruit' that matters in the end you know.Doctrine doesn't.
God will look on the heart and intentions of all, no matter what you know.
Someone could know 'not much' and have a good heart, good intentions , whatever, because the scales are weighed in the end.
Everything is measured up.
Example if a young man was lost, confused, and hanging onto life by a thread, and had just a dot of faith and prayer, he could be closer to God in that moment, than someone else – who knows it all.
Greetings Shimmer …… Right you are ! all one has to do is look at the two theives who were crucified with Jesus one was promised access to the kingdom with his expression of faith in his final moments of life ….
Theodore exactly.Trusting God is the most important thing.
I have seen so much lately. One of my biggest problems was lacking faith.
God knows things that we don't know.
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 27 2011,19:44) So Rebellman and EdJ do you believe the same thing (about the Holy Spirit)?
Hi Shimmer,You can add Gene, Kerwin, and even Paladin to the list as well.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 24 2011,04:46) Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 17 2011,20:15) Mike, it's the 'fruit' that matters in the end you know. Doctrine doesn't.
God will look on the heart and intentions of all, no matter what you know.
Hi Shimmer,Following the commands of God and the one He appointed as Lord and King matter greatly.
Your statement makes it seem that as long as I worshipped Satan with “good intentions”, God would be okay with it.
I think you are wrong.
peace,
mike
Mike, if God can reach out to one person, with whatever it takes…
Whether it be (through) a trinitarian Catholic or a non trinitarian believer, God will.Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 27 2011,21:30) Hi Ed.
So do Gene, Kerwin and Paladin also believe the word (logos) is the Holy Spirit?
Hi Shimmer,I believe so.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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