Can god be tempted?

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (martian @ Mar. 30 2010,03:55)

You know I find it interesting that WJ does not like being referred to as a Constantinian. (one who follows Constatine’s beliefs) Yet he seems right at home calling me an Arian. The difference between us is that no one can really be sure what Arius believed since all his works were destroyed by the church. All that is known is what his accusers say he believed. Not a credible source. On the other hand everyone knows what Constantine believed. It has been well documented in the church and is common knowledge even in the secular world. Following the example of his father and earlier 3rd-century emperors, Constantine throughout His life was a solar henotheist, believing that the Roman sun god, Sol, was the visible “manifestation” of an invisible “Highest God”  {a plural God?} (summus deus), who was the principle behind the universe. Constantine's adherence to this pagan faith is evident from his claim of having had a vision of the sun god in 310 while in a grove of Apollo in Gaul. In 325 AD – Constantine convenes the Council of Nicaea in order to develop a statement of faith that can unify the Church and therefore his empire. Emperor Constantine who was also the high priest of the pagan religion of the Unconquered Sun presided over this council. An interesting note is that of all the Christian bishops in the Empire those that were from the Eastern empire which held Jerusalem and still held onto the Hebraic herritage and undersdtanding of God, were not invited, while those of the Western Empre which centered on Greece and Platonic Abstract Reasoning were enchoraged to attend.The Nicene Creed is written, declaring that “the Father and the Son are of the same substance” (homoousios). This “same substance” theory became the backbone of the present day Trinity doctrine. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica: “Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions and personally proposed the crucial formula expressing the relationship of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, `of one substance with the Father'.” The American Academic Encyclopedia states:  “Although this was not Constantine's first attempt to reconcile factions in Christianity, it was the first time he had used the imperial office to IMPOSE a settlement.”   It is known that many of His Constatine’s Pagan beliefs followed Him into Christianity and that those beliefs strongly influenced the Nicaea council.  It is therefor clear that the council of Nicaea had been called in part to find a way to unify the Roman Empire under a statement of Faith. This council is known for it's Nicaean Creed detailing the doctrine of the Trinity which is the first time God is officially described, in any church document or biblical manuscript, as  separated into three, The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. It was there at Nicaea that the first roots of the Trinity were rammed through  in a Council that was overseen by the Emperor Constantine who, ironically enough, thought of himself as God-incarnate. (Constantine the Sun Worshiper  only made an official conversion to “Christianity” on his death bed). Several folowing councils tried (unsuccesfully) to explain this same substance theory. Finally settling on a mysterious “Dual Nature” that was no more clear then the original. This dual nature effectively made Christ different then the rest of humanity since normal humanity has only a single human nature. The essence of the Trinity found in the “same substance” theory was not formed from scripture or even revelation of a Godly man, but rahter the rantings of a pagan high priest whoes motives were to unify his kingdom under one banner regardless of cost to the truth. This so called truth was forced on the church uner threat of banishment or death. WJ can claim all he wants that he is not a follower of Constantine but his theological theories fall in line with Constantine’s same substance dogma. BTW Ed’s stuff is no more “crap” then yours.

martian………This is solid truth and should be read a studied by everyone Here. The Trinity is without a doubt the greatest Lies ever fostered and the Preexistence is next to the same thing. Your post is both very good and accurate.

peace and love to you and yours……………..gene

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 31 2010,03:07)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 29 2010,20:51) Martians response to WJ… Quote (martian @ Mar. 30 2010,03:55) BTW Ed’s stuff is no more “crap” then yours. Hi Martian, WJ's hostility on this site is so prevalent that even when I agree with Him offering proof of his assertions he still bad mouths me? God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org ED Your post was totally off topic and you know full well how I feel about your heritcal doctrine that the Holy Spirit is the Father and the Father is his own spoken Word and the Holy Spirit is the Word and the Father of Jesus! What is the difference in me calling your doctrine “crap” and you constantly accusing everyone else here that doesn't agree with you by saying… “The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate except distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit“.     WJ

Hi WJ,

I welcome everybody expressing their view of God, including you; WJ!
The disturbing fact is: the 'systems of religion's' doctrines are known to us.
There is no need to continually reiterate them like nobody ever heard them before.

The bigger picture that I have come to realize as TRUTH is unknown to most believers on the forum.
So please excuse me if I reiterate portions relative to the thread topic(as it may be distasteful to you).
I in no way consider you an unbeliever as do some others that don't see eye to eye with your beliefs.

All our goal should be to plant “the seed” of TRUTH; it's God's Job to make the seed grow(not ours).
Most people on the forum think it's their Job to convince others their view is the correct one.
My aim is only to make sure that the bigger picture (as I see it) is fully understood.
I don't argue with people who 'willing choose' to disagree with my view.
I hope you sincerely consider me a believer as I do you!

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
PS. That is a true statement regarding the 'systems of religion'!

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 30 2010,12:19)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 31 2010,03:07) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 29 2010,20:51) Martians response to WJ… Quote (martian @ Mar. 30 2010,03:55) BTW Ed’s stuff is no more “crap” then yours. Hi Martian, WJ's hostility on this site is so prevalent that even when I agree with Him offering proof of his assertions he still bad mouths me? God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org ED Your post was totally off topic and you know full well how I feel about your heritcal doctrine that the Holy Spirit is the Father and the Father is his own spoken Word and the Holy Spirit is the Word and the Father of Jesus! What is the difference in me calling your doctrine “crap” and you constantly accusing everyone else here that doesn't agree with you by saying… “The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate except distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit“.     WJ Hi WJ, I welcome everybody expressing their view of God, including you; WJ! The disturbing fact is: the 'systems of religion's' doctrines are known to us. There is no need to continually reiterate them like nobody ever heard them before. The bigger picture that I have come to realize as TRUTH is unknown to most believers on the forum. So please excuse me if I reiterate portions relative to the thread topic(as it may be distasteful to you). I in no way consider you an unbeliever as do some others that don't see eye to eye with your beliefs. All our goal should be to plant “the seed” of TRUTH; it's God's Job to make the seed grow(not ours). Most people on the forum think it's their Job to convince others their view is the correct one. My aim is only to make sure that the bigger picture (as I see it) is fully understood. I don't argue with people who 'willing choose' to disagree with my view. I hope you sincerely consider me a believer as I do you! God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org PS. That is a true statement regarding the 'systems of religion'!

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 30 2010,12:19)

PS. That is a true statement regarding the 'systems of religion'!

Ed

“To You” that is a true statement but apparently excludes yourself from having any tradition or confusion.”

Which is the reason I reject you, because all cults claim that they only have the truth and many of them have destroyed other mens lives like “Ronald Weinland”, Jim Jones, David Koresh, ETC.

Jesus said many will come saying that they are Christ (anointed ones) and shall decieve many.

The Body of Christ is a many membered Body that is not made of a few “self apointed Elect”, but is a many membered body that has part truth which put together makes a whole.

I know of no other that holds your views, yet you claim you are spoken of personally in the Bible and that your mission is to prove to the world what the “Real word of God is” and that you are some kind of a bridge between anti-Trinitarians and Trinitarians.

Even this post you give me implys that you have the “bigger picture” over everyone here which seems like arrogance to me!

Paul said…

And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, “he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. 1 Cor 8:2

My Spirit does not witness to you or with you ED. Sorry!

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Yes you tempt God by offering new doctrines in the name of His Son.
He is patient though and wants all to be saved.

So each division of the world's church has a little part of the truth and together they make a glorious bigger truth?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 30 2010,17:12)

Hi WJ, Yes you tempt God by offering new doctrines in the name of His Son. He is patient though and wants all to be saved. So each division of the world's church has a little part of the truth and together they make a glorious bigger truth?

NH

Do you also claim to have all truth?

Simple yes or no question!

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
In the Spirit of God each of can gain access to the deeper things of God.[1cor2]
Why not join the body of Christ?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 30 2010,17:22)

Hi WJ, In the Spirit of God each of can gain access to the deeper things of God.[1cor2] Why not join the body of Christ?

NH

Exactly, it is the Body of Christ that will come to unity of the faith, unto the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a mature man…!

No man is an Island in himself. Those who claim they are Elite are decieved!

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
To join the body of Christ you must repent and be reborn oif water and the Spirit.
Then you must abide in the scriptures and be led by the Spirit of truth.
Many bridesmaids were found to have failed the task.

You confuse the wide path and the false church with the few walking in the light of Christ.

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 31 2010,08:06)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 30 2010,12:19) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 31 2010,03:07) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 29 2010,20:51) Martians response to WJ… Quote (martian @ Mar. 30 2010,03:55) BTW Ed’s stuff is no more “crap” then yours. Hi Martian, WJ's hostility on this site is so prevalent that even when I agree with Him offering proof of his assertions he still bad mouths me? God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org ED Your post was totally off topic and you know full well how I feel about your heritcal doctrine that the Holy Spirit is the Father and the Father is his own spoken Word and the Holy Spirit is the Word and the Father of Jesus! What is the difference in me calling your doctrine “crap” and you constantly accusing everyone else here that doesn't agree with you by saying… “The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate except distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit“.     WJ Hi WJ, I welcome everybody expressing their view of God, including you; WJ! The disturbing fact is: the 'systems of religion's' doctrines are known to us. There is no need to continually reiterate them like nobody ever heard them before. The bigger picture that I have come to realize as TRUTH is unknown to most believers on the forum. So please excuse me if I reiterate portions relative to the thread topic(as it may be distasteful to you). I in no way consider you an unbeliever as do some others that don't see eye to eye with your beliefs. All our goal should be to plant “the seed” of TRUTH; it's God's Job to make the seed grow(not ours). Most people on the forum think it's their Job to convince others their view is the correct one. My aim is only to make sure that the bigger picture (as I see it) is fully understood. I don't argue with people who 'willing choose' to disagree with my view. I hope you sincerely consider me a believer as I do you! God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org PS. That is a true statement regarding the 'systems of religion'! Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 30 2010,12:19) PS. That is a true statement regarding the 'systems of religion'! Ed “To You” that is a true statement but apparently excludes yourself from having any tradition or confusion.” Which is the reason I reject you, because all cults claim that they only have the truth and many of them have destroyed other mens lives like “Ronald Weinland”, Jim Jones, David Koresh, ETC. My Spirit does not witness to you or with you ED. Sorry! WJ

Hi WJ,

What do you mean by…
                       'I reject you'?

Do you mean: (judging me) 'you are no Christian'?
Or
Do you mean: (since you never heard before) 'you must reject what I say'?

If you mean the latter: Isn't that the kind of logic an 'Athiest' uses, because they CANNOT believe in God either?
Think about how similar you 'logic' is to that of an 'Atheist' and also how “Far” your 'logic' is from these verses…

Mark 9:36-37 And he took a child, and set him in the midst of them: and when he had taken him in his arms,
                    he said unto them, whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me:
                    and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him(117=יהוה האלהים) that sent me.
1 Corin. 13:7 (A child) beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

I child believes: What he is told 'unless' there is “Direct Evidence”(FACTS) that say what has been said is 'incorrect'.
(John 16:2–3)    You do NOT apply this type of “Logic” towards me (John 15:18-21), WJ; this is the Logic of a Christian.
   'i am'=23
Mark 13:6 For many (are you among the 'many' WJ?) shall come in my name, saying,'i am'(Rev.13:1/Rev.18:3); and shall deceive many.
              (Matt.7:14)

Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 31 2010,09:18)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 30 2010,17:12) Hi WJ, Yes you tempt God by offering new doctrines in the name of His Son. He is patient though and wants all to be saved. So each division of the world's church has a little part of the truth and together they make a glorious bigger truth? NH Do you also claim to have all truth? Simple yes or no question! WJ

Hi WJ,

Who's the other, you?

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 30 2010,17:56)

If you mean the latter: Isn't that the kind of logic an 'Athiest' uses, because they CANNOT believe in God either?

ED

Is one not a Christian for rejecting a false teacher? Obviously you must say no for you believe I am one and reject me as being a teacher of the truth! Pot calling Kettle black!

Was Jesus using “Atheist” logic when he said there would be false Prophets and “Christ, anointed ones”?

Was Paul or John using “Atheist” logic when they said there  would be decievers and false teachers among you?

Even in this your logic is twisted!

I have proven your false assumptions as being unscriptural with Biblical facts which you have rejected, and that Gemetria is an inconsistant trick to decieve the simple! IMO

You have rejected the truth of Gods word that I have shown you and you claim I have done the same.

We can't even agree on the fundamentals of Faith, so the scripture is fullfilled…

Can two walk together, except they be agreed? Amos 2:3

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 30 2010,17:58)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 31 2010,09:18) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 30 2010,17:12) Hi WJ, Yes you tempt God by offering new doctrines in the name of His Son. He is patient though and wants all to be saved. So each division of the world's church has a little part of the truth and together they make a glorious bigger truth? NH Do you also claim to have all truth? Simple yes or no question! WJ Hi WJ, Who's the other, you? God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

ED

Actually it is you. You have never denied it and in fact with you accusations against all others who disagree with you by saying…

“The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate except
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit”.

Is evidence that you think you have all Truth and others do not see the “Big Picture” you call it!

WJ

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 31 2010,10:27)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 30 2010,17:56) If you mean the latter: Isn't that the kind of logic an 'Athiest' uses, because they CANNOT believe in God either? ED Is one not a Christian for rejecting a false teacher? Obviously you must say no for you believe I am one and reject me as being a teacher of the truth! Pot calling Kettle black! WJ

Hi WJ,

Why are you putting 'spin' on what I said?
It is satanic 'logic' to suggest if someone gets “one thing wrong” they then become untrustworthy (as a source) to take seriously.

I told you a long time ago (in essence), just because 'you' have jumped to some incorrect conclusions
does NOT mean we cannot learn from you. Try to keep the FACTS straight, you will be a lot better off.

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 31 2010,10:32)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 30 2010,17:58) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 31 2010,09:18) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 30 2010,17:12) Hi WJ, Yes you tempt God by offering new doctrines in the name of His Son. He is patient though and wants all to be saved. So each division of the world's church has a little part of the truth and together they make a glorious bigger truth? NH Do you also claim to have all truth? Simple yes or no question! WJ Hi WJ, Who's the other, you? God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org ED Actually it is you. You have never denied it and in fact with you accusations against all others who disagree with you by saying… “The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate except distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit”. Is evidence that you think you have all Truth and others do not see the “Big Picture” you call it! WJ

Hi WJ,

You should really pay attention to what I actually say!
I have Posted this quote at least three times now on this forum…
My late friend once said: “nobody can know everything about everything”.
It would really serve 'you' a “lot better” if you could keep all the FACTS straight.

Why do you continually insist on putting 'spin' on the things I say to you?
Since when does familiarity with the big picture paramount to knowing “All Truth”?

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[martian]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 31 2010,03:23)

Quote (martian @ Mar. 30 2010,03:55) You know I find it interesting that WJ does not like being referred to as a Constantinian. (one who follows Constatine’s beliefs) Yet he seems right at home calling me an Arian. The difference between us is that no one can really be sure what Arius believed since all his works were destroyed by the church. All that is known is what his accusers say he believed. Not a credible source. On the other hand everyone knows what Constantine believed. It has been well documented in the church and is common knowledge even in the secular world. Following the example of his father and earlier 3rd-century emperors, Constantine throughout His life was a solar henotheist, believing that the Roman sun god, Sol, was the visible “manifestation” of an invisible “Highest God”  {a plural God?} (summus deus), who was the principle behind the universe. Constantine's adherence to this pagan faith is evident from his claim of having had a vision of the sun god in 310 while in a grove of Apollo in Gaul. In 325 AD – Constantine convenes the Council of Nicaea in order to develop a statement of faith that can unify the Church and therefore his empire. Emperor Constantine who was also the high priest of the pagan religion of the Unconquered Sun presided over this council. An interesting note is that of all the Christian bishops in the Empire those that were from the Eastern empire which held Jerusalem and still held onto the Hebraic herritage and undersdtanding of God, were not invited, while those of the Western Empre which centered on Greece and Platonic Abstract Reasoning were enchoraged to attend.The Nicene Creed is written, declaring that “the Father and the Son are of the same substance” (homoousios). This “same substance” theory became the backbone of the present day Trinity doctrine. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica: “Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions and personally proposed the crucial formula expressing the relationship of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, `of one substance with the Father'.” The American Academic Encyclopedia states:  “Although this was not Constantine's first attempt to reconcile factions in Christianity, it was the first time he had used the imperial office to IMPOSE a settlement.”   It is known that many of His Constatine’s Pagan beliefs followed Him into Christianity and that those beliefs strongly influenced the Nicaea council.  It is therefor clear that the council of Nicaea had been called in part to find a way to unify the Roman Empire under a statement of Faith. This council is known for it's Nicaean Creed detailing the doctrine of the Trinity which is the first time God is officially described, in any church document or biblical manuscript, as  separated into three, The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. It was there at Nicaea that the first roots of the Trinity were rammed through  in a Council that was overseen by the Emperor Constantine who, ironically enough, thought of himself as God-incarnate. (Constantine the Sun Worshiper  only made an official conversion to “Christianity” on his death bed). Several folowing councils tried (unsuccesfully) to explain this same substance theory. Finally settling on a mysterious “Dual Nature” that was no more clear then the original. This dual nature effectively made Christ different then the rest of humanity since normal humanity has only a single human nature. The essence of the Trinity found in the “same substance” theory was not formed from scripture or even revelation of a Godly man, but rahter the rantings of a pagan high priest whoes motives were to unify his kingdom under one banner regardless of cost to the truth. This so called truth was forced on the church uner threat of banishment or death. WJ can claim all he wants that he is not a follower of Constantine but his theological theories fall in line with Constantine’s same substance dogma. BTW Ed’s stuff is no more “crap” then yours. martian………This is solid truth and should be read a studied by everyone Here. The Trinity is without a doubt the greatest Lies ever fostered and the Preexistence is next to the same thing. Your post is both very good and accurate. peace and love to you and yours……………..gene

One of the key deceptive strategies of the enemy is to compartmentalize discussion of their dogma in order to confuse the facts and allow the continued mystery of their doctrines. Regardless of WJ's claim to not follow Constantine dogma it is at the very base of his doctrine.
The question is very simple. Either God is completely fully human with an origin at his conception and a life of temptation like all other men and an overcoming of death and sin in example to us – Or – all of that must be augmented in order to give him some divine attributes.

All christian groups have their history wrapped up in the Catholic church in some way. Some groups have come out farther then others, but I do not believe that any group has completely shed the negative influence of the dark ages church.

I rarely bother to read WJ or thinker's posts because I do not believe they are capable of posting anything other then deception and half truths. This does not mean they are not saved or even have bad hearts. They are simply in deception about the nature of God and Christ and in order to defend their dogmas they must resort to deception and half truths. Even when I have agreed to their narrow approach and have dealt with their compartmentalized subjects and I have proved significant points within that line of reasoning, they will skip to another comparmentalized subject in an attempt at misdirection. The cut and paste theology and refusal to see the big picture of scripture from the standpoint of those who wrote it is a primary example of deception.

[martian]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 31 2010,11:32)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 31 2010,10:32) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 30 2010,17:58) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 31 2010,09:18) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 30 2010,17:12) Hi WJ, Yes you tempt God by offering new doctrines in the name of His Son. He is patient though and wants all to be saved. So each division of the world's church has a little part of the truth and together they make a glorious bigger truth? NH Do you also claim to have all truth? Simple yes or no question! WJ Hi WJ, Who's the other, you? God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org ED Actually it is you. You have never denied it and in fact with you accusations against all others who disagree with you by saying… “The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate except distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit”. Is evidence that you think you have all Truth and others do not see the “Big Picture” you call it! WJ Hi WJ, You should really pay attention to what I actually say! I have Posted this quote at least three times now on this forum… My late friend once said: “nobody can know everything about everything”. It would really serve 'you' a “lot better” if you could keep all the FACTS straight. Why do you continually insist on putting 'spin' on the things I say to you? Since when does familiarity with the big picture paramount to knowing “All Truth”? God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed,
When a person believes a doctrine that is a lie, deception and misdirection is all they have to defend it.

[martian]

Quote (martian @ April 01 2010,03:04)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 31 2010,03:23) Quote (martian @ Mar. 30 2010,03:55) You know I find it interesting that WJ does not like being referred to as a Constantinian. (one who follows Constatine’s beliefs) Yet he seems right at home calling me an Arian. The difference between us is that no one can really be sure what Arius believed since all his works were destroyed by the church. All that is known is what his accusers say he believed. Not a credible source. On the other hand everyone knows what Constantine believed. It has been well documented in the church and is common knowledge even in the secular world. Following the example of his father and earlier 3rd-century emperors, Constantine throughout His life was a solar henotheist, believing that the Roman sun god, Sol, was the visible “manifestation” of an invisible “Highest God”  {a plural God?} (summus deus), who was the principle behind the universe. Constantine's adherence to this pagan faith is evident from his claim of having had a vision of the sun god in 310 while in a grove of Apollo in Gaul. In 325 AD – Constantine convenes the Council of Nicaea in order to develop a statement of faith that can unify the Church and therefore his empire. Emperor Constantine who was also the high priest of the pagan religion of the Unconquered Sun presided over this council. An interesting note is that of all the Christian bishops in the Empire those that were from the Eastern empire which held Jerusalem and still held onto the Hebraic herritage and undersdtanding of God, were not invited, while those of the Western Empre which centered on Greece and Platonic Abstract Reasoning were enchoraged to attend.The Nicene Creed is written, declaring that “the Father and the Son are of the same substance” (homoousios). This “same substance” theory became the backbone of the present day Trinity doctrine. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica: “Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions and personally proposed the crucial formula expressing the relationship of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, `of one substance with the Father'.” The American Academic Encyclopedia states:  “Although this was not Constantine's first attempt to reconcile factions in Christianity, it was the first time he had used the imperial office to IMPOSE a settlement.”   It is known that many of His Constatine’s Pagan beliefs followed Him into Christianity and that those beliefs strongly influenced the Nicaea council.  It is therefor clear that the council of Nicaea had been called in part to find a way to unify the Roman Empire under a statement of Faith. This council is known for it's Nicaean Creed detailing the doctrine of the Trinity which is the first time God is officially described, in any church document or biblical manuscript, as  separated into three, The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. It was there at Nicaea that the first roots of the Trinity were rammed through  in a Council that was overseen by the Emperor Constantine who, ironically enough, thought of himself as God-incarnate. (Constantine the Sun Worshiper  only made an official conversion to “Christianity” on his death bed). Several folowing councils tried (unsuccesfully) to explain this same substance theory. Finally settling on a mysterious “Dual Nature” that was no more clear then the original. This dual nature effectively made Christ different then the rest of humanity since normal humanity has only a single human nature. The essence of the Trinity found in the “same substance” theory was not formed from scripture or even revelation of a Godly man, but rahter the rantings of a pagan high priest whoes motives were to unify his kingdom under one banner regardless of cost to the truth. This so called truth was forced on the church uner threat of banishment or death. WJ can claim all he wants that he is not a follower of Constantine but his theological theories fall in line with Constantine’s same substance dogma. BTW Ed’s stuff is no more “crap” then yours. martian………This is solid truth and should be read a studied by everyone Here. The Trinity is without a doubt the greatest Lies ever fostered and the Preexistence is next to the same thing. Your post is both very good and accurate. peace and love to you and yours……………..gene One of the key deceptive strategies of the enemy is to compartmentalize discussion of their dogma in order to confuse the facts and allow the continued mystery of their doctrines. Regardless of WJ's claim to not follow Constantine dogma it is at the very base of his doctrine. The question is very simple. Either God is completely fully human with an origin at his conception and a life of temptation like all other men and an overcoming of death and sin in example to us – Or – all of that must be augmented in order to give him some divine attributes. All christian groups have their history wrapped up in the Catholic church in some way. Some groups have come out farther then others, but I do not believe that any group has completely shed the negative influence of the dark ages church. I rarely bother to read WJ or thinker's posts because I do not believe they are capable of posting anything other then deception and half truths. This does not mean they are not saved or even have bad hearts. They are simply in deception about the nature of God and Christ and in order to defend their dogmas they must resort to deception and half truths. Even when I have agreed to their narrow approach and have dealt with their compartmentalized subjects and I have proved significant points within that line of reasoning, they will skip to another comparmentalized subject in an attempt at misdirection. The cut and paste theology and refusal to see the big picture of scripture from the standpoint of those who wrote it is a primary example of deception.

Sorry typo —
My post should read —-
One of the key deceptive strategies of the enemy is to compartmentalize discussion of their dogma in order to confuse the facts and allow the continued mystery of their doctrines. Regardless of WJ's claim to not follow Constantine dogma it is at the very base of his doctrine.
The question is very simple. Either Jesus (not God) is completely fully human with an origin at his conception and a life of temptation like all other men and an overcoming of death and sin in example to us – Or – all of that must be augmented in order to give him some divine attributes.

All christian groups have their history wrapped up in the Catholic church in some way. Some groups have come out farther then others, but I do not believe that any group has completely shed the negative influence of the dark ages church.

I rarely bother to read WJ or thinker's posts because I do not believe they are capable of posting anything other then deception and half truths. This does not mean they are not saved or even have bad hearts. They are simply in deception about the nature of God and Christ and in order to defend their dogmas they must resort to deception and half truths. Even when I have agreed to their narrow approach and have dealt with their compartmentalize
d subjects and I have proved significant points within that line of reasoning, they will skip to another comparmentalized subject in an attempt at misdirection. The cut and paste theology and refusal to see the big picture of scripture from the standpoint of those who wrote it is a primary example of deception.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 30 2010,19:31)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 31 2010,10:27) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 30 2010,17:56) If you mean the latter: Isn't that the kind of logic an 'Athiest' uses, because they CANNOT believe in God either? ED Is one not a Christian for rejecting a false teacher? Obviously you must say no for you believe I am one and reject me as being a teacher of the truth! Pot calling Kettle black! WJ It is satanic 'logic' to suggest if someone gets “one thing wrong” they then become untrustworthy (as a source) to take seriously.

ED

True, but it is not one thing that you get wrong.

As I said you deny the very basic tenets of the Christian faith and no follower of Christ that I know of accepts your view on the Holy Spirit, the Word and the Father.

You have not a single recognized source that I am aware of that teaches what you teach. The facts are you claim to have the “big picture” with some new found revelation and I believe as well as many others that you are false!

I do have a right to believe that don't I. Is that “Atheist” logic because I believe what you teach is not God!

So as you can see that is the reason as well as the witness of the Holy Spirit that I reject you and your teachings just like you reject me and mine!

But I wish you well! WJ

[GeneBalthrop]

WJ………Why don't you ever even consider the what we are telling you from scripture is correct and Just ask God to reveal the truth to you. Look i respect you service to people seeking GOD, but trying to defend false teachings by not considering what we are saying is only hindering your service to others, I know what we are telling you is not the (ESTABLISHED) religion of this day, but it is none the less the truth. Think about it WJ.

peace and love to you and yours………………….gene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 31 2010,11:49)

WJ………Why don't you ever even consider the what we are telling you from scripture is correct and Just ask God to reveal the truth to you. Look i respect you service to people seeking GOD, but trying to defend false teachings by not considering what we are saying is only hindering your service to others, I know what we are telling you is not the (ESTABLISHED) religion of this day, but it is none the less the truth.  Think about it WJ. peace and love to you and yours………………….gene

Gene

Do you believe the Holy Spirit is Jesus Father?

WJ

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