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Hi Mike,
You are trying to discount the FACT that YHVH says there is NO God besides him? (Isaiah 45:5, & 45:21)
Your belief in the N.W.T. rendering of John 1:1 as 'a god' is causing you to bend other Scripture; is it not?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 10 2011,14:33) I believe ALL scripture, Ed. But we've just gone through this whole discussion in the other thread. In Hosea 13:4, it is implied that Jehovah is the ONLY savior. Yet you yourself have admitted that Jehovah sent OTHER saviors. So apparently, 13:4 does not LITERALLY mean Jehovah is the ONLY savior, does it? It can't, right?
The same applies with “god”.
Isaiah 45 NIV
5 I am the LORD, and there is no other;
apart from me there is no God.21 Was it not I, the LORD?
And there is no God apart from me,Just like there could be no other savior IF NOT FOR God, there would be no other mighty beings IF NOT FOR God.
He is not saying He is LITERALLY the ONLY God period, for Jehovah Himself speaks of the gods of other nations all the time.
2 Kings 1:6
“A man came to meet us,” they replied. “And he said to us, ‘Go back to the king who sent you and tell him, “This is what the LORD says: Is it because there is no God in Israel that you are sending men to consult Baal-Zebub, the god of Ekron? Therefore you will not leave the bed you are lying on. You will certainly die!”’”Who is Baal-Zebub?
Luke 11:15
But some of them said, “By Beelzebub, the prince of demons, he is driving out demons.”11:18
If Satan is divided against himself, how can his kingdom stand? I say this because you claim that I drive out demons by Beelzebub.11:19
Now if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your followers drive them out? So then, they will be your judges.See Ed? Beelzebub the Prince of the demons is the same Baal-Zebub who Jehovah Himself called “the god of Ekron”. This is the same exact Beelzebub that Paul calls “the god of this age” and Jesus calls “Satan”.
And not once in scripture is he ever called a “so-called god” or a “false god”. In fact, those phrases don't even exist in the original texts. They were added in later by English translators.
Satan IS a god, Ed. Jesus IS a god. Those are the scriptural FACTS of the matter. Either accept it or don't.
peace,
mike
Hi Mike,Are you suggesting your rudimentary logic also gets to discount Jer.2:11?
Jeremiah 2:11-12 Hath a nation changed their gods, which are yet no gods?
but my people have changed their glory for that which doth not profit. Be astonished,
O ye heavens, at this, and be horribly afraid, be ye very desolate, saith the LORD.Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים=117 (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org …(Eccl.9:12-16)Ed,
When YOU address these simple questions with DIRECT and HONEST answers, we can move on.
1. When Jehovah is called “the God of gods”, WHO are the gods Jehovah is the God of?
2. When Jehovah calls Satan “the god of Ekron”, is Jehovah calling Satan a god?
3. When Paul calls Satan “the god of this age”, is Paul calling Satan a god?
4. When Paul says there are gods many and lords many, both in heaven and on earth, is Paul saying there are gods many?
5. In John 1:1, is the Word “a god” who was WITH God? Or was God WITH Himself?
6. If God can call Himself the ONLY savior, yet it is not literal because we know of the existence of OTHER saviors, then why can't God call Himself the ONLY god without it being literal, since we also know of the existence of OTHER gods?
Psalm 81:1
God presides over the assembly of gods; in the midst of the gods he renders judgment.7. In the above scripture, who are the gods that God assembles with and renders judgment upon? Where do they assemble together?
8. When John calls Jesus the only begotten god, is John calling Jesus a god?
9. When Jehovah foretells through Isaiah that Jesus will be called a mighty god, is Jehovah saying that Jesus will be called a god?
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 11 2011,12:21) Ed, When YOU address these simple questions with DIRECT and HONEST answers, we can move on.
1. When Jehovah is called “the God of gods”, WHO are the gods Jehovah is the God of?
2. When Jehovah calls Satan “the god of Ekron”, is Jehovah calling Satan a god?
3. When Paul calls Satan “the god of this age”, is Paul calling Satan a god?
4. When Paul says there are gods many and lords many, both in heaven and on earth, is Paul saying there are gods many?
5. In John 1:1, is the Word “a god” who was WITH God? Or was God WITH Himself?
6. If God can call Himself the ONLY savior, yet it is not literal because we know of the existence of OTHER saviors, then why can't God call Himself the ONLY god without it being literal, since we also know of the existence of OTHER gods?
A. Psalm 81:1
God presides over the assembly of gods; in the midst of the gods he renders judgment.7. In the above scripture, who are the gods that God assembles with and renders judgment upon? Where do they assemble together?
8. When John calls Jesus the only begotten god, is John calling Jesus a god?
9. When Jehovah foretells through Isaiah that Jesus will be called a mighty god, is Jehovah saying that Jesus will be called a god?
mike
Hi Mike,Thanks for you willingness to discuss the matter!
1. That phrase simply denotes that “YHVH is GOD”(117) over all.
2. Satan is king to all the children of pride. (see Job.41:34 & 2Cor.4:4)
3. The Apostle Paul (Shaool) is calling satan god to the children of disobedience.
4. The Apostle Paul (Shaool) is saying there are many “SO CALLED” gods; but they are really NO Gods at all! …read carefully…
For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is
but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. (1Cor. 8:5-6)5. The “HolySpirit” was with YHVH in the beginning, but is now with us. (See. Genesis 1:2, Eph.4:4-6, 1John 2:24)
6. YHVH is “The Savior”(117), who sends others to help save believers in him.
We have been over ‘YOUR’ FAULTY COMPARISON of saviors and gods before!A. Psalm 82:1-2 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? (Ye also means YOU!)
This verse is referring to God's children; we are the gods. (But both you and Wm deny this fact)
Look at verse 6: I (HolySpirit) have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Modern English has “God's”, which better represents THIS IDEA; which is THE TOPIC of this thread!7. See 6.B. …here at H-net among other places.
8. The AKJV Bible has no such wording, because Modern English address
many believed doctrinal misconceptions; which is THE TOPIC of this thread!9. It simply means that Jesus is more mighty than many of us.
Consider carefully Jesus own words: Verily, verily, I say unto you,
He (anyone) that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also;
and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. (John 14:12)Please feel free to ask more questions, that
is how WE establish TRUTH and dismiss error.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgWhen you are capable of answering the questions ACCURATELY and DIRECTLY, then it will be time for more questions.
Let's just deal with the very first one:
My question: 1. When Jehovah is called “the God of gods”, WHO are the gods Jehovah is the God of?
Your Answer: 1. That phrase simply denotes that “YHVH is GOD” over all.
Why? Does the phrase SAY that YHWH is “God over all”? Or does the phrase SAY that YHWH is the “God of gods“? If you say the phrase “of gods” means “over all”, then that implies that the “all” that God is over are all gods.
For example, “over all” would imply crickets and hamsters, etc. Are crickets and hamsters gods? If not, then “God of gods” does NOT imply “God over all”. Because it is SPECIFICALLY saying that there are gods that Jehovah is the God OF.
And because your own 21st century mind tells you there is only one god in existence, you are willing to purposely misunderstand scriptures like “God of gods” and “only begotten god” and “god of this age” and “the god of Ekron”.
But while I understand the way people in the 21st century have come to understand the word “god”, and how they've been brainwashed into thinking that the word “god” ONLY refers to the One Omniscient Creator of All, that understanding is still scripturally wrong.
There are many gods mentioned in the scriptures. Not one of them is ever called a “false god” or a “so-called god” in the scriptures. It IS said that idols are no gods at all, but Satan and Jesus are not idols. Nor was the god who put his wrath on the Israelites in 2 Kings 3:27. Nor were the gods of Egypt who were able to match many of the signs and wonders that Jehovah did through Moses before Pharaoh.
So, while you are correct that Jehovah IS the God “over all”, the phrase “God of gods” does not say this. Instead, it says that Jehovah is the God of THE OTHER gods.
Ed, there is no reason to purposely misunderstand such a simple phrase as “God of gods” just to form the scriptures around YOUR OWN understanding. The trick is to form your own understanding around what the scriptures say. And if those scriptures say that Jehovah is the God of gods, then just accept it for what it says – there are other gods and Jehovah is the God of them.
peace,
mikeMike,
Those that might be called gods are those who have wrongly exalted themselves to make themselves equal to God or those objects that people have wrongly exalted and made these objects into objects of worship, like carved wooden images, handmade molten images, entertainment, sports, family, other people, etc.; whatever one has placed in their life to which they live for, think foremost about, whatever this object, idea or person is takes place in their heart and people try to fill the God void in their heart with these types of things instead of the Father and the Son.My understanding,
KathiIn other words Mike, the other gods are not gods who have been exalted by the true God but by themselves or others. The gods that have exalted themselves or been exalted as gods by others will perish…they did not make heaven or earth.
Jer 10: 11Thus you shall say to them, “The gods that did not make the heavens and the earth will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.”
Kathi
Hi Kathi,
There is no scripture that says “so-called gods” or “false gods” or “those that might be called gods”.
The fact that Jehovah is the God OF gods indicates that there are other gods of whom Jehovah is God.
Just like Jesus is a god, and Jehovah is HIS God. Satan is a god, and Jehovah is HIS God.
That's the scriptural truth of the matter – either believe it or don't.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 15 2011,03:23) My question: 1. When Jehovah is called “the God of gods”, WHO are the gods Jehovah is the God of? peace,
mike
Hi Mike,They would be…
A. God's children. (See Psalm 82:6)
B. Those called gods, who are not gods at all. (See 1Cor.8:5)Do you agree with me on this? …also consider carefully what Jeremiah 10:10-12 says…
But the LORD(YHVH) is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth
shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. Thus shall ye say unto them,
The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth,
and from under these heavens. He hath made the earth by his power, he(YHVH) hath established
the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion. (Jeremiah 10:10-12)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgMike! The trinity doctrine has three Gods, Almighty God, Jesus God and the Holy Spirit God. Also in Ancient times many were called Gods. Kings, Governors, even Majors…. all that were in offices….
For example there is Adrammelech and Anammelech (2 Kings 17:31), Asherah (1 Kings 18:19), Baal (Judges 3:7), Chemosh (Num. 21:29), Dagon (1 Sam. 5:2), Molech (Lev. 18:21; 20:2-5), etc. The Bible is not contradicting itself. When the Bible speaks of other gods it is speaking of false gods that have no true existence.
Peace Irene
“God” is title and not a name. “God” is a term that is used to describe supreme being with authority (good or bad), but also false gods, carved images…
When we are talking about only true God bible is very clear about that: “And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.”(John 17:3) So there is only one true God (Father), but there are also others who are called gods and they are not all false gods. Jesus is called God: “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” (Isaiah 9:6)
Also God can appoint someone to be god: “And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.” (Exodus 7:1)
So there are other gods and they are not all self called or so called gods.
It is important to read verses in context and understand if they are talking about God/gods, false gods or about only true God.Sorry about my English
God bless
vjesnikQuote (vjesnik @ Oct. 01 2011,23:53) “God” is title and not a name. “God” is a term that is used to describe supreme being with authority (good or bad), but also false gods, carved images…
When we are talking about only true God bible is very clear about that: “And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.”(John 17:3) So there is only one true God (Father), but there are also others who are called gods and they are not all false gods. Jesus is called God: “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” (Isaiah 9:6)
Also God can appoint someone to be god: “And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.” (Exodus 7:1)
So there are other gods and they are not all self called or so called gods.
It is important to read verses in context and understand if they are talking about God/gods, false gods or about only true God.Sorry about my English
God bless
vjesnik
Welcome to HN….. I agree that God, LORD (Jehovah), Lord, King of Kings and Lord of Lords(Jesus) are all titles….
Do you know why the translators used titles to explain God to us?
We have a Ryie Study Bible and in the footnotes it says that the translators used LORD for Jehovah God, they didn't want to take Gods name in vain….You will only find His name Jehovah a couple of times in the Bibles… its no wonder that most think God is His name…
Peace and Love Irene
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