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Quote (2besee @ Sep. 28 2013,06:29) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,11:06) 2besee, Quote The only time I get fired up at times is on forums. I mean, in real life I have not encountered other Christians telling me or others that they are lost and not saved, have you? Being anonymous encourage people to talk more freely and I find writing on a computer aids me to keep more cool than I am by nature.
A person that tells you that you are lost or or not saved is judgmental as God is the judge. There are wiser ways to say they disagree with your words and or actions. They also need to seek a wiser heart to go with the words.
That is their choice but you are not to do as they do, even though they provoke you. Remember as long as you speak the truth in love these words are for you.
Matthew 5:11
New International Version (NIV)11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
Thank you for guidance kerwin. I appreciate that.
2besee,I only strive to do as I am told.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,07:13) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 28 2013,06:52) Quote (2besee @ Sep. 28 2013,06:35) Frederica, (Ha hey, my phone wrote Frederica when I typed Terrarica).
“So also it is written, The first man Adam
became a living soul. The last Adam
became a life-giving spirit”.When and where did Adam become a living soul?
2beeyou may find it funny ,but not me ,but you show me a part of you i did not know ;
as for your question;
GE 2:7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
Terrarica,Loosen up and enjoy life at times. The spellcheckers on phones are not intelligent and they do silly things. I have no clue what it thinks my name should be spelled. Federica sounds like a wild guess.
Paul actually said all he was saying was written in the Old Testament. Where do you believe the fact that the last Adam is a life given spirit comes from in the OT?
KQuote Where do you believe the fact that the last Adam is a life given spirit comes from in the OT? who do you think Paul was referring to when he says this
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 28 2013,07:40) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,07:13) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 28 2013,06:52) Quote (2besee @ Sep. 28 2013,06:35) Frederica, (Ha hey, my phone wrote Frederica when I typed Terrarica).
“So also it is written, The first man Adam
became a living soul. The last Adam
became a life-giving spirit”.When and where did Adam become a living soul?
2beeyou may find it funny ,but not me ,but you show me a part of you i did not know ;
as for your question;
GE 2:7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
Terrarica,Loosen up and enjoy life at times. The spellcheckers on phones are not intelligent and they do silly things. I have no clue what it thinks my name should be spelled. Federica sounds like a wild guess.
Paul actually said all he was saying was written in the Old Testament. Where do you believe the fact that the last Adam is a life given spirit comes from in the OT?
KQuote Where do you believe the fact that the last Adam is a life given spirit comes from in the OT? who do you think Paul was referring to when he says this
T,He was referring the same passage as that is also where the Spiritual Adam is created. Where is the life given spirit in that passage?
Quote (2besee @ Sep. 28 2013,06:18) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,12:46) Quote (2besee @ Sep. 28 2013,03:38) T8, yes, I agree that to some degree it is a mystery. Jesus is in heaven, but Jesus is also here with us in spirit. The only spirit is the Holy Spirit, which is how the Father was also in Heaven to Jesus, and in him also, through the Holy Spirit. So, the connection to Heaven is without a doubt the Holy Spirit. The first Adam became a living soul on earth, so to follow the pattern, the second Adam would have become a life giving spirit on earth too, yes?
Obviously Jesus was flesh and bone and blood on earth. However, he was also raised in the flesh and bone, and said he was not a spirit.
So obviously, as the Bible attests, Jesus is in Heaven now, and we eagerly await his return as Paul says. However, Jesus appeared to Paul and has appeared to many people (I have experienced Jesus in prayerful vision as has other Christians I know well). Yet Jesus is in Heaven, the firstborn from the dead! As He himself said, he is not just a spirit, so there is something uniquely different about him and his BODY.So anyway, WHEN did Jesus BECOME a “life giving spirit”? It could be when the Holy Spirit was given to him without measure, due to his sinlessness, which is something that did not happen to Adam.
I don't know, just thinking aloud here.
2besee,Where does Scripture actually say that Jesus is a live giving spirit?
Kerwin,Good point in your question.
It does not say He “Is” a life giving spirit, as some claim.
1 Corinthians 15:45 says that Jesus became a life giving spirit just as Adam became a living soul.“So also it is written, The first man Adam
became a living soul. The last Adam
became a life-giving spirit”.This is the verse people use to claim that Jesus was raised spirit not flesh. But I believe taking scripture as a whole that it is referring to his life on earth.
2besee,It does not say Jesus is or became a life giving spirit. It does say the Last Adam became a life giving spirit and some people assume that means Jesus because he was mentioned as a type of Adam earlier in the chapter. Paul stated that the ideas expressed in the words “The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit” are written in the OT. The Jews, of whom Paul is one, teach that Adam is both a natural and Spiritual creation. Both parts of Adam's nature are written about in Genesis 2:7.
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 28 2013,06:21) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,04:06) 2besee, Quote The only time I get fired up at times is on forums. I mean, in real life I have not encountered other Christians telling me or others that they are lost and not saved, have you? Being anonymous encourage people to talk more freely and I find writing on a computer aids me to keep more cool than I am by nature.
A person that tells you that you are lost or or not saved is judgmental as God is the judge. There are wiser ways to say they disagree with your words and or actions. They also need to seek a wiser heart to go with the words.
That is their choice but you are not to do as they do, even though they provoke you. Remember as long as you speak the truth in love these words are for you.
Matthew 5:11
New International Version (NIV)11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
kQuote Matthew 5:11
New International Version (NIV)11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
is this scriptures not directly refers to the persecution of the faith
so not really addresses the ones that disagree with you right
not all are raffine in speech as you are K. me i see thing in a raw version black and white when i disagree i can also produce why ;
i also notices that you see the scriptures differently than i do ; you see them in a fragmented way and so interpret them in that way ;while i see them as a whole and it really bugs me at some of the conclusions some of you can take in scriptures ;
but yes i learn to keep it silence
T,That passage is for any believer that is punished for doing right.
We are to judge the life and doctrine of ourselves and others but not the person.
God is my witness that I seek harmony in doctrine.
Quote (2besee @ Sep. 28 2013,06:25) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,11:17) 2besee, I do not say I am saved for the same reason I do not say I am not saved and that is because I am not the judge of that matter. Our job is to believe God loves us and wants us to be saved on that day and to strive by faith to do all he commands. The rest is up to him.
Kerwin, I also do not assume to be saved for eternity. I am talking about being saved from our previous lives of darkness. And many of us have been saved from that. Amen.
Jesus came for the lost. (Luke 19:10)
2besee.Sounds good! For that we give glory to God.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,07:59) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 28 2013,07:40) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,07:13) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 28 2013,06:52) Quote (2besee @ Sep. 28 2013,06:35) Frederica, (Ha hey, my phone wrote Frederica when I typed Terrarica).
“So also it is written, The first man Adam
became a living soul. The last Adam
became a life-giving spirit”.When and where did Adam become a living soul?
2beeyou may find it funny ,but not me ,but you show me a part of you i did not know ;
as for your question;
GE 2:7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
Terrarica,Loosen up and enjoy life at times. The spellcheckers on phones are not intelligent and they do silly things. I have no clue what it thinks my name should be spelled. Federica sounds like a wild guess.
Paul actually said all he was saying was written in the Old Testament. Where do you believe the fact that the last Adam is a life given spirit comes from in the OT?
KQuote Where do you believe the fact that the last Adam is a life given spirit comes from in the OT? who do you think Paul was referring to when he says this
T,He was referring the same passage as that is also where the Spiritual Adam is created. Where is the life given spirit in that passage?
K1CO 15:45 So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1CO 15:46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.
1CO 15:47 The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven.
1CO 15:48 As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenlyit is without doubts that Paul talks about Christ ;but you do not believe Christ came from heaven ;
JN 6:41 Therefore the Jews were grumbling about Him, because He said, “I am the bread that came down out of heaven.”
JN 6:51 “ I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.”
JN 6:58 “This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever.”Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
Jn 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.Jn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Jn 1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,08:26) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 28 2013,06:21) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,04:06) 2besee, Quote The only time I get fired up at times is on forums. I mean, in real life I have not encountered other Christians telling me or others that they are lost and not saved, have you? Being anonymous encourage people to talk more freely and I find writing on a computer aids me to keep more cool than I am by nature.
A person that tells you that you are lost or or not saved is judgmental as God is the judge. There are wiser ways to say they disagree with your words and or actions. They also need to seek a wiser heart to go with the words.
That is their choice but you are not to do as they do, even though they provoke you. Remember as long as you speak the truth in love these words are for you.
Matthew 5:11
New International Version (NIV)11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
kQuote Matthew 5:11
New International Version (NIV)11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
is this scriptures not directly refers to the persecution of the faith
so not really addresses the ones that disagree with you right
not all are raffine in speech as you are K. me i see thing in a raw version black and white when i disagree i can also produce why ;
i also notices that you see the scriptures differently than i do ; you see them in a fragmented way and so interpret them in that way ;while i see them as a whole and it really bugs me at some of the conclusions some of you can take in scriptures ;
but yes i learn to keep it silence
T,That passage is for any believer that is punished for doing right.
We are to judge the life and doctrine of ourselves and others but not the person.
God is my witness that I seek harmony in doctrine.
Ki believe that we can judge everything in our pad ,but we cannot be the judge of the live of others this judgment belong to God ,
he (God) his the life giver not us .
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,10:36) Wakeup, Quote
How are we to EAT HIS *FLESH* AND *DRINK* HIS BLOOD?
For you say that his flesh is *flesh and bone*.
And his blood.??Literally the bread from heaven is the Spirit but speaking in another way is can be either Jesus or the words he speaks since by both the spirit is gained and lived by.
Galatians 5:19-24
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
It is either his words and his faith we must consume or his Spirit and his faith. The two are different ways of saying essentially the same thing.
Kerwin.You are twisting and turning,
at will.You said that Chist is still flesh.
His body is flesh.Jesus said;we are to eat *his flesh* and *drink his blood*.
How are we to eat his flesh?
Are we cannibals?Now you are twisting **back to spirit**,saying that we are to eat his spirit.(spin).
For my *FLESH* is meat indeed.
Not my spirit but, but my flesh.*Not* my *spirit* is meat indeed.(another spin).
And my *BLOOD* is drink indeed. john6:55.
IF HIS FLESH IS *FLESH AND BONE*;HOW ARE WE
TO CHEW ON HIM.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 28 2013,11:55) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,10:36) Wakeup, Quote
How are we to EAT HIS *FLESH* AND *DRINK* HIS BLOOD?
For you say that his flesh is *flesh and bone*.
And his blood.??Literally the bread from heaven is the Spirit but speaking in another way is can be either Jesus or the words he speaks since by both the spirit is gained and lived by.
Galatians 5:19-24
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
It is either his words and his faith we must consume or his Spirit and his faith. The two are different ways of saying essentially the same thing.
Kerwin.You are twisting and turning,
at will.You said that Chist is still flesh.
His body is flesh.Jesus said;we are to eat *his flesh* and *drink his blood*.
How are we to eat his flesh?
Are we cannibals?Now you are twisting **back to spirit**,saying that we are to eat his spirit.(spin).
For my *FLESH* is meat indeed.
Not my spirit but, but my flesh.*Not* my *spirit* is meat indeed.(another spin).
And my *BLOOD* is drink indeed. john6:55.
IF HIS FLESH IS *FLESH AND BONE*;HOW ARE WE
TO CHEW ON HIM.wakeup.
Wakeup,You now seem to be claiming there is spirit flesh and spirit blood and we are to consume both. He is not instructing us to eat literal flesh or drink literal blood of any kind. In fact it is sinful to consume the blood of even a beast.
Jesus is not speaking literal, he is speaking in allegories. Bread, flesh, and blood each symbolizes something else. He does it quite commonly.
In this case they are symbolizing things of Jesus that bring life. I named three of his things that bring life which are his Spirit, his words, and his faith. For evidence, I quoted from Galatians 5 that bears witness that the Spirit gives life.
You can chew on words.
Quote …and chew on words that nourish your writer’s heart.
Note: Quote from Sandra Heskaking's blog.
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 28 2013,09:40) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,08:26) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 28 2013,06:21) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,04:06) 2besee, Quote The only time I get fired up at times is on forums. I mean, in real life I have not encountered other Christians telling me or others that they are lost and not saved, have you? Being anonymous encourage people to talk more freely and I find writing on a computer aids me to keep more cool than I am by nature.
A person that tells you that you are lost or or not saved is judgmental as God is the judge. There are wiser ways to say they disagree with your words and or actions. They also need to seek a wiser heart to go with the words.
That is their choice but you are not to do as they do, even though they provoke you. Remember as long as you speak the truth in love these words are for you.
Matthew 5:11
New International Version (NIV)11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
kQuote Matthew 5:11
New International Version (NIV)11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
is this scriptures not directly refers to the persecution of the faith
so not really addresses the ones that disagree with you right
not all are raffine in speech as you are K. me i see thing in a raw version black and white when i disagree i can also produce why ;
i also notices that you see the scriptures differently than i do ; you see them in a fragmented way and so interpret them in that way ;while i see them as a whole and it really bugs me at some of the conclusions some of you can take in scriptures ;
but yes i learn to keep it silence
T,That passage is for any believer that is punished for doing right.
We are to judge the life and doctrine of ourselves and others but not the person.
God is my witness that I seek harmony in doctrine.
Ki believe that we can judge everything in our pad ,but we cannot be the judge of the live of others this judgment belong to God ,
he (God) his the life giver not us .
T,Sorry, I am not sure what you are saying.
What does pad mean?
When you say life do you mean the way a person lives or if they will have eternal life or not?
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 28 2013,09:36) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,07:59) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 28 2013,07:40) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,07:13) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 28 2013,06:52) Quote (2besee @ Sep. 28 2013,06:35) Frederica, (Ha hey, my phone wrote Frederica when I typed Terrarica).
“So also it is written, The first man Adam
became a living soul. The last Adam
became a life-giving spirit”.When and where did Adam become a living soul?
2beeyou may find it funny ,but not me ,but you show me a part of you i did not know ;
as for your question;
GE 2:7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
Terrarica,Loosen up and enjoy life at times. The spellcheckers on phones are not intelligent and they do silly things. I have no clue what it thinks my name should be spelled. Federica sounds like a wild guess.
Paul actually said all he was saying was written in the Old Testament. Where do you believe the fact that the last Adam is a life given spirit comes from in the OT?
KQuote Where do you believe the fact that the last Adam is a life given spirit comes from in the OT? who do you think Paul was referring to when he says this
T,He was referring the same passage as that is also where the Spiritual Adam is created. Where is the life given spirit in that passage?
K1CO 15:45 So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1CO 15:46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.
1CO 15:47 The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven.
1CO 15:48 As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenlyit is without doubts that Paul talks about Christ ;but you do not believe Christ came from heaven ;
JN 6:41 Therefore the Jews were grumbling about Him, because He said, “I am the bread that came down out of heaven.”
JN 6:51 “ I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.”
JN 6:58 “This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever.”Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
Jn 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.Jn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Jn 1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
T,Paul was not talking about John as John was not yet considered Scripture. He is talking about it being written in the Old Testament. There is a life giving spirit spoken of in Genesis 2:7.
Another hint is that if you can find an English version that translates the appropriate passages consistently animals are also living souls. Perhaps the French versions are better. The Hebrew is. The verse is Genesis 2:19.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,21:21) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 28 2013,11:55) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,10:36) Wakeup, Quote
How are we to EAT HIS *FLESH* AND *DRINK* HIS BLOOD?
For you say that his flesh is *flesh and bone*.
And his blood.??Literally the bread from heaven is the Spirit but speaking in another way is can be either Jesus or the words he speaks since by both the spirit is gained and lived by.
Galatians 5:19-24
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
It is either his words and his faith we must consume or his Spirit and his faith. The two are different ways of saying essentially the same thing.
Kerwin.You are twisting and turning,
at will.You said that Chist is still flesh.
His body is flesh.Jesus said;we are to eat *his flesh* and *drink his blood*.
How are we to eat his flesh?
Are we cannibals?Now you are twisting **back to spirit**,saying that we are to eat his spirit.(spin).
For my *FLESH* is meat indeed.
Not my spirit but, but my flesh.*Not* my *spirit* is meat indeed.(another spin).
And my *BLOOD* is drink indeed. john6:55.
IF HIS FLESH IS *FLESH AND BONE*;HOW ARE WE
TO CHEW ON HIM.wakeup.
Wakeup,You now seem to be claiming there is spirit flesh and spirit blood and we are to consume both. He is not instructing us to eat literal flesh or drink literal blood of any kind. In fact it is sinful to consume the blood of even a beast.
Jesus is not speaking literal, he is speaking in allegories. Bread, flesh, and blood each symbolizes something else. He does it quite commonly.
In this case they are symbolizing things of Jesus that bring life. I named three of his things that bring life which are his Spirit, his words, and his faith. For evidence, I quoted from Galatians 5 that bears witness that the Spirit gives life.
You can chew on words.
Quote …and chew on words that nourish your writer’s heart.
Note: Quote from Sandra Heskaking's blog.
Kerwin amen good answer
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,14:24) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 28 2013,09:40) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,08:26) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 28 2013,06:21) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,04:06) 2besee, Quote The only time I get fired up at times is on forums. I mean, in real life I have not encountered other Christians telling me or others that they are lost and not saved, have you? Being anonymous encourage people to talk more freely and I find writing on a computer aids me to keep more cool than I am by nature.
A person that tells you that you are lost or or not saved is judgmental as God is the judge. There are wiser ways to say they disagree with your words and or actions. They also need to seek a wiser heart to go with the words.
That is their choice but you are not to do as they do, even though they provoke you. Remember as long as you speak the truth in love these words are for you.
Matthew 5:11
New International Version (NIV)11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
kQuote Matthew 5:11
New International Version (NIV)11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
is this scriptures not directly refers to the persecution of the faith
so not really addresses the ones that disagree with you right
not all are raffine in speech as you are K. me i see thing in a raw version black and white when i disagree i can also produce why ;
i also notices that you see the scriptures differently than i do ; you see them in a fragmented way and so interpret them in that way ;while i see them as a whole and it really bugs me at some of the conclusions some of you can take in scriptures ;
but yes i learn to keep it silence
T,That passage is for any believer that is punished for doing right.
We are to judge the life and doctrine of ourselves and others but not the person.
God is my witness that I seek harmony in doctrine.
Ki believe that we can judge everything in our pad ,but we cannot be the judge of the live of others this judgment belong to God ,
he (God) his the life giver not us .
T,Sorry, I am not sure what you are saying.
What does pad mean?
When you say life do you mean the way a person lives or if they will have eternal life or not?
I MEAN WITHIN OUR OWN LIVES AND ACTION (PAD)THE JUDGMENT OF LIVE AND DEAD ON A PERSON ;THIS DOES NOT BELONG TO US
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,19:21) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 28 2013,11:55) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,10:36) Wakeup, Quote
How are we to EAT HIS *FLESH* AND *DRINK* HIS BLOOD?
For you say that his flesh is *flesh and bone*.
And his blood.??Literally the bread from heaven is the Spirit but speaking in another way is can be either Jesus or the words he speaks since by both the spirit is gained and lived by.
Galatians 5:19-24
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
It is either his words and his faith we must consume or his Spirit and his faith. The two are different ways of saying essentially the same thing.
Kerwin.You are twisting and turning,
at will.You said that Chist is still flesh.
His body is flesh.Jesus said;we are to eat *his flesh* and *drink his blood*.
How are we to eat his flesh?
Are we cannibals?Now you are twisting **back to spirit**,saying that we are to eat his spirit.(spin).
For my *FLESH* is meat indeed.
Not my spirit but, but my flesh.*Not* my *spirit* is meat indeed.(another spin).
And my *BLOOD* is drink indeed. john6:55.
IF HIS FLESH IS *FLESH AND BONE*;HOW ARE WE
TO CHEW ON HIM.wakeup.
Wakeup,You now seem to be claiming there is spirit flesh and spirit blood and we are to consume both. He is not instructing us to eat literal flesh or drink literal blood of any kind. In fact it is sinful to consume the blood of even a beast.
Jesus is not speaking literal, he is speaking in allegories. Bread, flesh, and blood each symbolizes something else. He does it quite commonly.
In this case they are symbolizing things of Jesus that bring life. I named three of his things that bring life which are his Spirit, his words, and his faith. For evidence, I quoted from Galatians 5 that bears witness that the Spirit gives life.
You can chew on words.
Quote …and chew on words that nourish your writer’s heart.
Note: Quote from Sandra Heskaking's blog.
Kerwin.No spinning please
You said that Jesus is now flesh and blood.
Jesus said: **my flesh** is ****meat indeed****,
and **my blood** *****is drink indeed*****.You say his flesh is meat, and his blood you fail to explain(?).
*NOT* my spirit.(this is twisting and spining words).
I am the bread,(my body): *NOT* my spirit is the bread.
You dont need to explain yourself: just the scriptures.
wakeup.
Quote (2besee @ Sep. 28 2013,15:18) Quote T,
Sorry, I am not sure what you are saying.
What does pad mean?Pad means home.
PAD WAY, MANY PEOPLE ARE CROSSING THEIR PAD ,PAD ;1. To go about on foot.
WHAT I REALLY MEANT TO MEAN IS WHAT WE ON A DAILY BASE WE MET (PEOPLE)
Quote (2besee @ Sep. 27 2013,18:18) This is the verse people use to claim that Jesus was raised spirit not flesh. But I believe taking scripture as a whole that it is referring to his life on earth.
Try taking just the context of Paul's teaching in 1 Cor 15 as a whole, 2B.That teaching was the answer to the question: “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?”
And Paul's answer included:
1. There are earthly bodies, and there are heavenly bodies. (Contrast)2. There are natural bodies, and there are spiritual bodies. (Contrast)
3. If there is a natural body, there also is a spiritual body. (Contrast)
4. The natural comes first, then the spiritual. (Remember that the question was: With what kind of body will the DEAD be raised? So he is not explaining how people who are still living can transform themselves from “natural” to “spiritual” by following God, or whatever.)
5. The first man was of the dust of the earth (ie: flesh). The second man is of heaven (ie: NOT of the dust of the earth, ie: NOT of flesh.)
6. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. (Again, a major CONTRAST between the BODIES of those who are of the earth, and those who are of heaven. Because remember, Paul is explaining about the BODIES of those who have died, and been resurrected.)
7. And just as we have borne the image of the earthly, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly. (We have all borne the image of FLESH, 2B. After the resurrection, we will bear the image of the heavenly. Again, a big CONTRAST between the flesh that we have all experienced, and the NON-FLESH that we will experience. Remember that Jesus said we will be like the angels, who are like the wind, coming and going without any indication where we came from, or where we went.)
8. I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. (That should end the entire argument right there. If FLESH cannot inherit, then FLESH cannot inherit.
I know some of you guys like to distinguish between “flesh and blood” and “flesh and bone”. But consider the following:
A. We know that “flesh and blood” cannot breathe in outer space. Do you assume that “flesh and bone” CAN?
B. Most of the time you read the OT phrase “flesh and blood” in English Bibles, it is really the phrase “flesh and bone”, or “flesh of my flesh and bone of my bone”. See Gen 29:14, where many English version have “You are my own flesh and blood.”
The phrases “flesh and bone” and “flesh and blood” are interchangeable, and either phrase means the same thing in scripture.
So the only thing you guys have is this imagined distinction between “flesh and blood” and “flesh and bone”. But refer back to my outer space analogy above. If “flesh and blood” can not breathe in outer space, can “flesh and bone”? Of course not.)
9. And finally, to answer your question about when Jesus became a life-giving spirit, remember the original question Paul was answering in the passage……… “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?”
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 27 2013,18:59) Paul is speaking of dualistic nature of man, who is both an natural and a spiritual creation.
See my last post to 2B. Remind yourself what question Paul was answering when he gave us this teaching. (Hint: He was NOT talking about dual natures of man, but the difference between how we are now, and how we will be after the resurrection.)Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 27 2013,18:59) I am claiming angels are not spirits as spirits can be neither touch or eat while angels can do both. I am not claiming they are flesh as Scripture merely seems to hint at that.
And that is the part that I said was just “too much”, Kerwin. Of course angels are spirit beings who exist in the spirit realm of heaven. No scripture ever comes close to “hinting” that angels are comprised of any flesh, nor did Jesus ever do a “test” that concluded spirits cannot eat or be touched.As I have done in the past, I'll remind you again about the story of Balaam and the donkey. If that angel was “flesh”, then why could only the donkey see him at first, while Balaam could not? And if he was spirit who cannot be touched, then what threat to Balaam was the sword he was swinging? How could a spirit sword hurt Balaam if it could not touch him?
Anyway, this is why I didn't want to become fully engaged in this thread………. because you and I have already been through all of this before, right?
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 27 2013,18:59) I saw no reason to be offended by your comment though I did think it was silly at the time.
Good. The comment was intended to be silly.Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 27 2013,18:59) I also require his gift of the interface between me and posting to keep a great share of undiplomatic nonsense and extraneous information out of my posts.
You bring up a good point. You and Ed are the greatest “diplomats” we have on this forum. Just don't forget that the main job of a diplomat is to blow smoke up other peoples' asses, and tell them white lies to keep the peace. It is Ed's diplomatic mind that enabled him to “agree with” the Trinitarians while simultaneously not really believing in a trinity Godhead…… or in a Jesus who actually is God Almighty.Jesus told us to let our yes be yes, and our no be no. And Paul told us to sharply rebuke those who are teaching things they ought not to teach. (Titus 1:13)
Pierre takes the “sharply” to the extreme, IMO. While KarMarie was more like milquetoast, claiming that everyone was okay in the eyes of God, no matter what they believed.
I'm somewhere in the middle – like Jesus was. He was loving when need be, and harsh at other times. But he was never afraid to call a spade a spade. TRUTH was of the utmost importance to him.
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