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Hi GM,
God has protected His teachings.
He has allowed certain minor mischief done His Word but they are challenges for His kids.yep.. still a real genuine 5 point Calvinist or, put another way, a biblical Christian…. placing myself under the full counsel of God, rightly dividing the Scriptures, not afraid to say that salvation is all of God, none of man, so that God gets ALL the glory, I deserve none, for my very choice of God could have only happened if He first chose me, in other words Ephesians 2:8 (ESV) 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Romans 9:15-16 (ESV) 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.Amen and Amen
Hi E,
Are calvinists only following the way of Christ?
Does Christ want men to seek such labels if they are of his body?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 15 2008,15:16) Hi GM,
God has protected His teachings.
He has allowed certain minor mischief done His Word but they are challenges for His kids.
So you agree that there are some mischiefs.
You agree with me that I was not bluffing on adding and deleting of scriptures. yes God is the one who saves His people irrespective of what is written in the scriptures through His Spirit. Otherwise we would have been lost. We are debating scriptures after coming to His family not before coming to Him.
thanks
AdamHi GM,
You must feed on the bread of life.
The denominations of men imprison their own.
Jesus came to set us free to serve God and not men.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 15 2008,16:19) epistemaniac…….Amen brother, you said it right. Love and peace to you and yours…..gene
amen!! blessings to you as well!!Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 15 2008,20:36) Hi E,
Are calvinists only following the way of Christ?
Does Christ want men to seek such labels if they are of his body?
Calvinists aren't perfect….. but I believe that the doctrines of grace (Calvinism. Augustinianism, monergism, whatever you want to call it) are the best, fullest representative of the whole counsel of God as to who does what in salvation, and this concerns the gospel itself. a pretty important topic, wouldn't you agree?As far as labels are concerned, “Calvinism” is just shorthand for “biblical Christianity”.
Words are simply tools, I do not slavishly follow Calvin, or Augustine. Or Jonathan Edwards, or John Owen, (so I do not think I violate 1 Cor. 1:12-13) but I do consider these to be some of the greatest teachers the God has ever given to the church. You wrote elsewhere, sharing your concern, and asking me something along the lines “why don't you just read the Bible for yourself? Why do you read these teachers?” Well firstly, if I followed this to the letter, I would not ever read you or anyone else's posts, would I? Aren't you concerned to share the truth (as you see it) with others? If I followed your advice, if you strictly followed your advice, no one should read anyone else's thoughts regarding what the Scripture teaches. But then, this would ITSELF be unbiblical. As I said earlier, the God gives teachers to the church.
1 Corinthians 12:28 (ESV) And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.”
So to insist that one not read or listen to teachers would be to counsel people against Scripture. I don't think you want to do that. We must use caution, we must compare what anyone says to the Scriptures themselves, but we can't throw the baby out with the bath water and just write off other teachers altogether, unless you want to be written off yourself?blessings.
KenHi E,
Jesus said to check the fruit.
Was this man's fruit clearly the work of God?
What of his hand in the murder of Servetus for disagreeing?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 16 2008,08:34) Hi E,
Surely elevating the derived doctrines of men takes our eyes off the one who is TRUTH?
surely not. at least there is no logical reason why it MUST… if that is what you choose to focus on, then it will always be a problem for you… for me… I use the biblical principle “spoiling the Egyptians”, just as the Israelites took gold and precious jewels from the Egyptians when they were released from slavery as a victor in war would, so too, do I, take the spoils, the good, the biblical teaching, from where ever I find it, and I just leave the rest behind…. and who knows Nick, someday I may even find some gold in your teaching!! lol……..and if I do, will I THEN be elevating YOUR “derived doctrines” above the word of God? Only if that is what you do. Or are all of YOUR doctrines purely biblical and everyone else's teachings somehow less than biblical? (please answer Nick, this is not merely a rhetorical question)
In any case, it will ONLY be the case (eg elevating the derived doctrines of men takes our — my — eyes off the one who is TRUTH?) if the teachers I love to read cause me to actually unbiblically elevate their teachings and thus take my eyes off the Christ. But, and here is the really simple truth Nick, it is NOT necessary that I do any such thing, any more than it is NECESSARY that I do so when I read YOUR thoughts concerning what the Scriptures mean.
IF you are THAT concerned about it, perhaps you should refrain from writing your own understandings of what Scripture teaches, just in case someone may come along and elevate your derived doctrines of man (eg Nick, t8, etc) and thus take their/our eyes off the one who is TRUTH….
…. and if you are not worried THAT much about it after all (I did not think you would be 😉 )then don't worry so much about me Nick. I am a big boy, I can fend for myself in this big 'ole world, I can separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to the the teachers I read, even teachers like you.
blessings,
KenHi,
So all sorts of derived teachings such as trinity and calvinism are elevated above scripture itself.
Is that wise?Hi brother Ken,
That is a nice post on doctrines. I hope our brother Nick will understand other's views as they are also from same scriptures he quotes not from any human inventions. We are here to address a problem not to judge a person.
Thanks and peace to you
AdamQuote (Nick Hassan @ July 16 2008,10:13) Hi E,
So calvinism is the way?
is Nick's understanding of the way true?Nick, take breath… there ya go… just breathe…. ok…. now I really am hopeful that you can understand this…. failing to address, that is, agreeing or disagreeing with SPECIFIC points is generally the way understanding is reached. Now, if you can understand the broader point concerning your earlier accusation, please let me know. There is no need, for now anyway, to go into the specific doctrines that might make up “Calvinism” or your favorite dead horse to beat, the Trinity. I anxiously await, and truly hope, that you are both capable AND willing to go back to my post and address specific issues. If you can't, then you truly can't expect real communication from others if you fail to give it yourself. Now I know that you have a forum to run, but pithy, empty, vacuous one liners aren't really helpful to anyone. If you don't really have the time to seriously discuss the issues you raise, I understand. It might be best to not pretend that are actually interested in discussing these issues by responding at all, if you can't really respond to any depth. Thanks for your consideration.
Blessings,
KenHi E,
You promote calvinism as true belief so you must have decided you do not need to go back to the Master on this? Should we follow Calvin?Even without looking at the issues, I am suspect of any isms. There are so many isms and institutions and their end result is to institutionalise people. I myself prefer the freedom of truth and scripture is a rich source of that. I listen to people, but if they come in their own name, then what is the point? If they come in the name of Yehshua then I will listen.
It seems to be that men's nature leads them to be institutionalised.
Wouldn't it be better to just bring up points and then call them truth if indeed they are true. Why do we need all these systems so to speak, and why do we need to turn to men who speak in their own name or organisations or philosophies that speak in the name of other men who are not Christ?
I say this because time is a precious thing and getting into all the issues of all the isms is way to time consuming for one life to handle and even if you did that, then what will you accomplish?
I say just keep it simple and talk about points to see if they are true or not.
I know that the name of the topic is Calvinism and there is no problem in exposing false teahing if it exists or promoting truth if it exists, but my point is was there a Paulism? What about a Peterism? Is this thinking not rebuked in scripture?
This is why I am suspect regarding any ism. Does the Spirit lead us to follow isms and lead us to be institutionalised? Or does the Spirit lead us to truth and set us free?
Nick……Should we follow Nickism then? Your trying to label a person by what they say, to some one you don't agree with. If John Calvin said we are saved by GRACE and That no of ourselves, Which is a scriptural statement then who are you to label a person as a Calvinist who quotes that scripture even if Calvin said it, does that make the written word less important. The Quoted scripture stand on it own, not on your opinion about it. You have no right to label anyone who made you a Judge over God's heritage.
T8…..right, talk to your moderator then. You might find things would move along better then for us if we didn't have to put up with his denial of posted scriptures and accusing people of not following Christ and His judgmental attitudes and i noticed it really doesn't bother him to lie about what people say either, maybe a little chat would be in order.
Personally i think someone like Adam would be a lot better moderator Here, he has a good way of asking and encouraging folks.
IMO………..gene
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