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Hi,
Fruit of John Calvin?
From Wikipedia.
The most lasting controversy of Calvin's life involves his role in the execution of Michael Servetus, the Spanish physician and theologian.Servetus first published his views in 1531 to a wide yet unreceptive audience. He denounced the Trinity, one of the cardinal doctrines that Catholics and Protestants agreed upon.[1] Calvin knew of these views in 1534, when he accepted Servetus' invitation to a small gathering in Paris to discuss their differences in person. For unknown reasons Servetus failed to appear.[21]
Around 1546, Servetus initiated a correspondence with Calvin that lasted until 1548, when the exchange grew so rancorous that Calvin ended it. Each man wrote under a pen name and each tried to win the other to his own theology. Servetus even offered to come to Geneva if invited and given a guarantee of safe passage. Calvin declined to offer either. In 1546 Calvin told Farel, “[Servetus] takes it upon him to come hither, if it be agreeable to me. But I am unwilling to pledge my word for his safety, for if he shall come, I shall never permit him to depart alive, provided my authority be of any avail.”[1]
Calvin's zeal was very much the rule among civil and church authorities in 16th century Europe, above all toward Servetus' effort to spread what they deemed heresy. As early as 1533 the Spanish Inquisition had sentenced Servetus to death in absentia.[22] Years later, in 1553, he was charged with heresy while living under an assumed name in Vienne, France. After Servetus escaped from the French prison in April 1553, the authorities there convicted and burned him in effigy.[23]
Servetus came to Geneva in August 1553 and attended a Sunday church service with Calvin in the pulpit. He was recognized and arrested on Calvin's initiative.[citation needed] While Calvin also wrote the heresy charges, Geneva's city council did far more to steer Servetus' trial, sentence, and burning at the stake.[24][21] Calvin asked the council for a more humane execution — beheading for civil disobedience rather than the stake for heresy — but his appeal was denied. The sentence was carried out on 27 October 1553. Servetus was burned along with every available copy of his final work, Christianismi Restitutio, only three known copies of which survived — two in Calvin's own possession.
Servetus was the only person “put to death for his religious opinions in Geneva during Calvin's lifetime, at a time when executions of this nature were a commonplace elsewhere,” but an angry debate over this incident has continued to the present day.[24] Historians have judged Calvin to be in the wrong on this issue, and later Calvinists have criticised his actions against Servetus.[25][26] Although many of Calvin's detractors portray him as a man who craved power, could not abide any dissent, and is unworthy of the respect that is commonly given to him,[27][28] his admirers see him as a man who sinned and failed to transcend the ethics of his time, but who is still deserving of honor because of his contributions elsewhere.[9][26]
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 14 2008,10:34) Hi,
Following ISMs
is following men.How can we serve two masters?
Hi brother Nick,
I never said we are following any ISMs, we are only having freedom to debate them including Arianism which caused utter confusion in the history of Christianity, the Trinity, and even the preexistence. But mere uttering the words like “false doctrines” is not addressing the problem. If Bible is so clear to you why we are confused with so many doctrines? This is the agony of saying my words.
Prove if you are having clarity by the scriptures which no one in the Christian history did so far.
Peace to you
AdamHi GM,
God does not want you confused.
He is not a God of confusion but of peace.
Go back to trusting in the bible so you can test the words of men.Adam…..God works in your mind and give it true logic, even if you are a human, every one God is working with has Godly logic. Don't let some puny human being intimidate you by acting like He know what he is talking about, when in fact He is only interested is to decide for you whats right and wrong logic is , when he himself is has little if any true understanding of truth. Beware of (HIS) HUMAN LOGIC. You trust in GOD ONLY< not NO one else not matter how pious they would like you to believe they are.
love to you and yours…………….gene
Hi GB,
Where is greek logic held up to be God's wisdom in scripture?
1 Corinthians 1:23
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?The mind of Christ is according to the wisdom of God.
Luke 11:49
Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:Nick….where does it say Greek logic in scripture is any less then yours. Again thats Just your Human LOGIC talking . Any one who is not converted has the problem of not understanding scriptures as well as other Logical things, who are You to decide who is and who isn't scripturally logical. If you were not so blind you could see there is much truth that is not in the scriptures in this world. You only elevate yourself in your mind but in fact are less Knowledgeable about scriptures then most here as far as i and others can tell, You really would be doing a service to us all by not putting your our human logical view into our discussions. It only hinders the truth from coming out . Don't be so worried about what others do worry about being a stumbling block , would be more appropriate for you to do.
IMO….gene
Nick….And by the way it was the council that wanted to let Servetus off at first and latter when John Calvin would not concede they as For a quick death for him but Calvin refused and Had Him burnt at the stake and even put green logs so he would suffer longer as well a sulfur around His eyes and Head. The actual manuscripts of the trial are still available, if you care to read them order the book, OUT OF THE FLAMES> John Calvin was a cold blood murder and orchestrated the death of Servetus because of a paper he wrote on THE ERRORS OF THE TRINITY.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 15 2008,08:03) Nick….where does it say Greek logic in scripture is any less then yours. Again thats Just your Human LOGIC talking . Any one who is not converted has the problem of not understanding scriptures as well as other Logical things, who are You to decide who is and who isn't scripturally logical. If you were not so blind you could see there is much truth that is not in the scriptures in this world. You only elevate yourself in your mind but in fact are less Knowledgeable about scriptures then most here as far as i and others can tell, You really would be doing a service to us all by not putting your our human logical view into our discussions. It only hinders the truth from coming out . Don't be so worried about what others do worry about being a stumbling block , would be more appropriate for you to do. IMO….gene
Hi Gb,
It is the wisdom of God you should rely on,
not weak human logic.Nick….If you have God's spirit in you, you would understand (ALL) truth when you hear it,and guess what (ALL) truth is (not) in the bible only some is. The sum of GOds word is truth, but by no means (ALL) the truth there is. And if it were not for, as you say (WEAK HUMAN LOGIC) biilions of more people would have died from many diseases in this world So don't sell human logic to short. I think you mean worldly Logic not Human logic, God gave us these mind to use ,and if i took you human logic out of you ,your name would be Mr. Blank. a mindless wonderer. Quite trying to elevate yourself by using human logic to as a means to cause other to think you know the right way, when in fact it's just a front for you own pious positions, everyones opinion here comes from logic which is in their minds including yours. And believe me your is no better then anyone else, except in the chambers of you own mind of course.
Hi GB,
No the natural logical human mind must submit to the spiritual wisdom of scripture.
Logic cannot rule scripture which is spiritual, of the Spirit of God.
We must be transformed by renewal of our minds.Nick…..you say, no the natural human mind (must submit) the the spiritual (wisdom )of scripture , PLEASE SHOW US THAT IN SCRIPTURE< I thought we are being (TRANSFORMED) BY the RENEWING OF OUR MINDS,but yu emply it as (WE) MUST RENEW OUR MINDS leaving the Father completely out of the picture, You see there is your problem you don't realize God Has changed our minds to understand truth, and our minds still are in flesh bodies but have the spirit of God in them, which guides our thought in (ALL) things even if they are not written in scripture. Scripture is (NOT) What save us It's God's GRACE the save Us. You have make scripture your GOD.
Your use of (MUST SUBMIT) shows it's your works your trying to establish and Has nothing to do with GOD working in you at all, your faith is in yourself. So do (SUBMIT) then and don't worry about others GOD is perfectly capable to Save them by renewing them through His GRACE.
Nick….lets drop this i don't come here to get involved with your constant diversions of subject matter. Would rather just give my opinions on what i think about something and if your don't like it thats fine, but you don't have to infer any thing about my reasonings. Just worry about your own OK>
Hi GB,
Listen to Jesus.
His words are sacred and eternal.
John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.Matthew 4:4
Jesus answered, “It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'Luke 4:4
Jesus answered, “It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone.' “Hi GM,
Truth is written.
We should always be prepared to defend the integrity of Scripture.
It is constantly under attack from every possible angle so that men can lay their own suspect foundations.Fine to be openminded but do not let the winds of opinion blow you away.
Yes Truth is written, but it is already late my brother human beings have laid their hands in those scriptures and changed them in many places especially in the N.T. You can not close your eyes towards it. These doctrines resulted because of laying human hands on these scriptures. What do you say?
Hi GM,
Nonsense.
Ps 12
6The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.Ps 19
7The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.8The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
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