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Quote Quote (barley @ July 04 2010,00:34) Rokkaman.
Mr. Rokkaman,
Although I would seem appropriate to agree with you here, prudence requires that we proceed slowly and one step at a time. We do not want to make conclusions on the basis of something that is not there. No more than we would want to walk up a 40 ft ladder with only one rung in it.
One caution is, since the logos of God is God, does the logos of God include everything that God is? Since the words or logos or message of God are those things that God chose to communicate, does that mean that God has communicated to us everything that He is?
No. And no.
I only know as much of you as can be communicated by the words you have shared on this website. Yet, there is a lot more to you than what has been recorded on this website. Although, this information might be available on this website somewhere, I do not know how old you are, who your parents are, what your real name is, what nationality you are, etc., etc., etc…..
Likewise with the word, the logos, that what we have in the form of scripture, we only know those things that God has revealed to us to know. See Deuteronomy 29:29, The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong to us, and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.”
All that God has revealed to us in His logos, His word, the written word, the scripture, is available for us to know and utilize, but God has not revealed all things to us. Nor to Jesus Christ. So since the logos of God is basically the words, the message of God, that He has revealed to us to know, Jesus Christ is limited to be like God only to the extent that the written word, the logos, is revealed to us. Therefore, although JC is the word in the flesh, he is certainly not a total communication of everything that is God, because God has not revealed all to us in His word.
Jesus Christ is the one and only example of someone choosing to and perfectly carrying out, perfectly doing that logos, the word that is revealed. As we carry out God's words' instructions in our lives, we also show God's word in the flesh for all to see, even as Jesus Christ did. However, Jesus Christ, as the word in the flesh, began at his conception. He was conceived and born to be the word in the flesh. Likewise, we were born again, to be the word in the flesh.
So, as you and I, as Jesus Christ did, believe God's Word are we the word in the flesh? Yes. People see truth in action, they see by our lives what God is about, they, in a very real sense, see the Father. Jesus Christ is the prime example of the word being in the flesh, but that does not exclude us from doing the same works that Jesus C. did.
Jesus Christ being the word in the flesh is not only God's doing, but Jesus Christ's doing as well. God decided to have a son, the son decided to do the will of the Father, rather than his own. It was a team effort. God, however, was and is the prime mover. The game plan was set and declared from God, JC carried out his part in it.
Even so, we should decide to learn and carry out our part in God's “game plan.” Just as JC did, we want to have God's will done here on earth, even as it is in heaven. Who is going to do God's will here on earth? Jesus Christ is no longer here, he is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. Who is here to do the will of God here on earth?
You and I.
You and I are up to it.
God made us able to do it.
I'll do my best, based on what I understand clearly to do. What about you? Will you be the word in the flesh as JC was? Thank God, Jesus C. died for us, so we don't have to die in service to God, but rather be living sacrifices to God. Romans 12:1.
There are other issues to consider here, but for now this will suffice.
Agreeing with scripture that Jesus Christ is the word in the flesh, is not a difficult decision for me. After all, that is what scripture teaches. John 1:14,15. However, that scripture does not teach that Jesus Christ is God. No more than you or I could possibly be God, because we choose to do God's will over our own. No more than you or I could be God because we show the Father in our lives.
We do not want to take a mile, if only an inch is given to us. Let us take that inch in the right direction, and travel it as God would have us to travel it. We need to be faithful in that one inch, for when we are, God will give us more.
May our journeys for God be the prosperous ones that God intends.
I agree with you, and have no charge against your saying.I believe the folly among the boards is understanding each of our interpretations.
——-
I've have said Jesus is not YHVH himself.
I do believe Jesus Christ is the manifestation of The Word of God.
I also believe The Word of God is YHVH himself…his communication or his expression to creation.
——-
Nothing can fully understand or encompass YHVH.
Not angels, men, just simple nothing.
YHVH is infinite, he is everything and continually everything.
He is…. what is, not even.
Which means, he is everything that is, that hasn't even been.
———-
For example, he has the potential to be a father, but not until a son is born.
He has the potential to be a healer, but not until someone is afflicted.
————
So in the future, far when this world is gone.
He will continue to create.
And will become all that is good in that creation.
————
So if one day he creates something called (mookie pookie)
and beeing mookie is good, and pookie being bad.He won't be a mookie to us, until he creates mookie pookie.
Just like we couldn't perceive the good in him, until we were able to perceive the bad that was not in him.
or
We couldn't perceive the good justice he brings about, until lawbreaking occured with Adam.
He responds to creation and the choices we make.
He didn't create a law, until wrongdoing was found among creation.
————So YHVH wasn't a creator, until he created…
this demonstrates his power.
He is the source of all things.
He has the potential to be all things good and is all things good, but it isn't manifested until there is a need for it.
———
This is how he continually infinitely creates, and how we'll live in a world full of entertainment for all eternity.
HOW GREAT IS OUR GOD =P
———
So when Jesus is the incarnate Word of God.
He is God expressed to creation.
———
So we will never be able to reach YHVH.
He is too infinite, too great to come close.
So in agreement with your understanding and what you have posted, that I have quoted above.
Jesus Christ is YHVH expressed to creation as The Word of God.
So when I tell you, he is NOT YHVH.
I tell you the truth.
but when I say he is God.
I so too, still tell you the truth.
Because he is everything God is, that creation can possibly know.
———-
Like you said, we cannot know what he doesn't communicate to us.
Well what he does communicate to us, is what we are to know as….The Word of God.
And Jesus Christ was the incarnation of The Word of God.
———-
So we should all agree, anti-trinitarians alike…that Jesus Christ is God expressed to us.
He is not actually YHVH the almighty God…
but everything we
can possible know about God.To me, it makes sense why god gave him dominion over all things.
Because Jesus is to rule everything that knows him, because to know him…would be to know YHVH, because HE IS everything we can possible know OF YHVH.
Does this make sense?
Does it justify why I say Jesus is God?
Let me clarify if my first attempt was still hard to swallow.
——-YHVH is the source of all things.
He is The Almighty God.If he is the source of all things, even things that haven't come into creation…when it does, it will have come from him.
——
So YHVH has the potential to be everything good, but isn't everything good UNTIL it is manifested.
but because everything good will eventually be manifested, it will have come from him….
so this paradoxical understanding solidifies that HE INDEED IS ALREADY everything good.
—–
So us, being human and limited INSIDE the scope of his greatness.
Will never actually GRASP his greatness.
NOTHING can actually grasp YHVH's greatness, for he is, what hasn't even been.
He is what will yet to be.
the best way to put it is….
HE IS
So if you understand that he simply IS
We can't possibly know him.
We can ONLY know what he reveals.
————
Well whatever he reveals to us, whatever he communicates to us…is his WORD.
The Word of God.
Communication to creation.
————
If Jesus Christ is The Word of God made flesh.
He is God revealed to creation.
————
The revelation is not equal to the source, but it's all we can possibly KNOW OF THE SOURCE.
So if Jesus Christ is all we can know of God…he is the highest THING we can possibly perceive to be God.
but this is only a perception.
because the manifested perception of God, or image or manifestation…
has confirmed that he is NOT THE SOURCE.
That The Source itself, YHVH, exists.
and all that he does, comes from the source himself.
——–
So when I say Jesus Christ is God, it should be understand that he is God in the same sense John 1 explains he is God.
Everything and anything we could possibly know about God that is revealed to us, has been and is revealed in The Son.
Anything we will ever know about YHVH can ONLY be revealed in The Son.
So the closest thing we have to God himself, is Jesus Christ.
That is why we can only get TO the source, YVHV, through his son, Jesus Christ.
This does not mean we are to glorify Jesus Christ AS YHVH himself, but to understand that Jesus Christ is acting on behalf and respresenting YHVH himself.
In otherwords, he is YHVH manifested, IN CREATION.
(Revealed)
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2010,15:37) Hi RM,
We can know Him.
1Jn2.13
1jn2.14
1jn4.7
1jn5.20
We can know, only what is revealed.The Word of God, is God revealed.
It is not his totallity, YHVH is the totallity.
Christ is YHVH revealed.
This is how Christ can be God manifested in flesh.
This is why i say Christ is God but not YHVH.
He comes from the source, but isn't the source himself.
He is the source revealed to creation.
The perception, the image.
All the verse you prescribed are in sync with this understanding.
So I take it you agree.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2010,16:46) Hi RM,
The manifestation of God is in the anointing.
John 1 clearly illustrates the manifestation took place at incarnation.Jesus before conception existed as The Word of God.
Hi RM,
Incarnation?
Do you mean his conception of Mary?
The Spirit of Christ was before time but Jesus is a Son of Adam.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 08 2010,05:29) Hi RM,
Incarnation?
Do you mean his conception of Mary?
The Spirit of Christ was before time but Jesus is a Son of Adam.
Yes when I say incarnation I mean when Mary conceived.The Spirit of Christ is The Word of God.
Hi RM,
The Spirit created all things.[ps 104]
The man Jesus was not different from conception because God was his father.
Only after his anointing in Lk3 does it say Jesus was full of the Spirit.[Lk4] That Spirit in him is called the Spirit of Christ.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 08 2010,05:43) Hi RM,
The Spirit created all things.[ps 104]
The man Jesus was not different from conception because God was his father.
Only after his anointing in Lk3 does it say Jesus was full of the Spirit.[Lk4] That Spirit in him is called the Spirit of Christ.
Many prophets in the past who were filled with The Holy Spirit, have died by the hands of sinners.Why hasn't their blood been made atonement for mankind's sins?
What makes Jesus Christ different Nick?
Hi RM,
So you agree with Scripture that Jesus was the great prophet?[acts 3.22]
So it was his anointing by God that made him such a vessel.
His anointing was greater than any of the prophets.
He was given the Spirit without measureJn3
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 08 2010,05:43) Hi RM,
The Spirit created all things.[ps 104]
The man Jesus was not different from conception because God was his father.
Only after his anointing in Lk3 does it say Jesus was full of the Spirit.[Lk4] That Spirit in him is called the Spirit of Christ.
Then what was he at conception?Quote (RokkaMan @ July 08 2010,05:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 08 2010,05:43) Hi RM,
The Spirit created all things.[ps 104]
The man Jesus was not different from conception because God was his father.
Only after his anointing in Lk3 does it say Jesus was full of the Spirit.[Lk4] That Spirit in him is called the Spirit of Christ.
Many prophets in the past who were filled with The Holy Spirit, have died by the hands of sinners.Why hasn't their blood been made atonement for mankind's sins?
What makes Jesus Christ different Nick?
Hi RokkaMan,Because blood in the fetus comes from the father! (Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35)
It was the “God Blood”=74 that “Jesus”=74 had running through his veins that made the difference! (Acts 20:28)Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the HolySpirit
hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ July 16 2010,14:25) Quote (RokkaMan @ July 08 2010,05:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 08 2010,05:43) Hi RM,
The Spirit created all things.[ps 104]
The man Jesus was not different from conception because God was his father.
Only after his anointing in Lk3 does it say Jesus was full of the Spirit.[Lk4] That Spirit in him is called the Spirit of Christ.
Many prophets in the past who were filled with The Holy Spirit, have died by the hands of sinners.Why hasn't their blood been made atonement for mankind's sins?
What makes Jesus Christ different Nick?
Hi RokkaMan,Because blood in the fetus comes from the father! (Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35)
It was the “God Blood”=74 that “Jesus”=74 had running through his veins that made the difference! (Acts 20:28)Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the HolySpirit
hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
So YHVH, a spirit…now has physical blood?or do you think that verse was metaphorical, and really talking about his kin…Jesus Christ?
Quote (RokkaMan @ July 16 2010,17:27) Quote (Ed J @ July 16 2010,14:25) Quote (RokkaMan @ July 08 2010,05:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 08 2010,05:43) Hi RM,
The Spirit created all things.[ps 104]
The man Jesus was not different from conception because God was his father.
Only after his anointing in Lk3 does it say Jesus was full of the Spirit.[Lk4] That Spirit in him is called the Spirit of Christ.
Many prophets in the past who were filled with The Holy Spirit, have died by the hands of sinners.Why hasn't their blood been made atonement for mankind's sins?
What makes Jesus Christ different Nick?
Hi RokkaMan,Because blood in the fetus comes from the father! (Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35)
It was the “God Blood”=74 that “Jesus”=74 had running through his veins that made the difference! (Acts 20:28)Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the HolySpirit
hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
So YHVH, a spirit…now has physical blood?or do you think that verse was metaphorical, and really talking about his kin…Jesus Christ?
Hi RokkaMan,Keep asking questions RokkaMan that's how you learn! (Matt.7:7 / 2Tm.2:13)
Jesus blood did NOT come from Adam,
but instead came from the “HolySpirit”! (Lev.17:11)Lev.17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to
make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. (Heb.9:22)
Heb.9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission(of sins).God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgTo All…………..Heb 9:22……> and almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without the Shedding of Blood there is no remission of sins.
Paraphased ……..> almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without the shedding of blood (the human body that has life in its body by the blood in it) there is no getting rid of sin. Paul say sin remained in His body and caused him to feel retched. He even said it was no longer him that sinned but His body, and with his mind he served the laws of God but he found that there was another law working in his body he referred to it as this body of death, that was waring against the Spirit of his mind and these were contrary to one another. So perhaps the shedding of blood which is our life source must indeed be done away with in order for us to be completely rid of sin.
So Heb 9:22, can be taken in different ways.
peace and love to you all………………gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 16 2010,21:26) Hi ED,
God does not have blood.
Hi Nick:Quote Acts 20:28Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. The body of Christ is God's body.
Love in Christ,
Marty
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