Born of water.

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 22 2012,11:33)

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 21 2012,19:40)

1. There is NO resurrection of the bad.
But of the good only.

2.The first resurrection is for the saints,resurrected in spirit.(they are judged and resurrected at the same time).
God already knows who belongs to him before he is resurrected.(therefore already judged).

3. In the second resurrection: the good, (sheep) will be resurrected in spirit, and the BAD will be brought back in the ,FLESH,for the goats will be judged, and then cast in the fire.
(once one is resurrected in the spirit he will not be killed).

4. IF ONE IS RESURRECTED IN THE SPIRIT,ONE IS SIMULTANEOUSLY JUDGED ALREADY.

5. The sheep will be resurrected in spirit,and inherit the kingdom also.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

I do not share this understanding. Show me this by the scriptures.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Hi marty.

I cant give you the scriptures saying that the BAD will not be resurrected.
I am sure you have read all the prophesies.

We are about the SECOND resurrection here.

All I know is that once one is resurrected in spirit,he is judged already;therefore resurrected in spirit.

The BAD will be brought back to live again to be judged and then cast in the fire.You can choose the word resurrected if you like,but I feel that the word brought back to life is more appropriate.

The BAD should never be given a spirit body before judged.
A spirit body is a glorified body;something the BAD does not deserve AT ANY TIME.

wakeup.

December 22, 2012 at 2:51 pm#325075

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 22 2012,21:11)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 22 2012,11:33)

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 21 2012,19:40)

1. There is NO resurrection of the bad.
But of the good only.

4. IF ONE IS RESURRECTED IN THE SPIRIT,ONE IS SIMULTANEOUSLY JUDGED ALREADY.

5. The sheep will be resurrected in spirit,and inherit the kingdom also.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

I do not share this understanding. Show me this by the scriptures.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Hi marty.

I cant give you the scriptures saying that the BAD will not be resurrected.
I am sure you have read all the prophesies.

We are about the SECOND resurrection here.

All I know is that once one is resurrected in spirit,he is judged already;therefore resurrected in spirit.

The BAD will be brought back to live again to be judged and then cast in the fire.You can choose the word resurrected if you like,but I feel that the word brought back to life is more appropriate.

The BAD should never be given a spirit body before judged.
A spirit body is a glorified body;something the BAD does not deserve AT ANY TIME.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

Any opnion relative to the Word of God should be supported by the scriptures, otherwise it is speculative. This is what causes confusion.

Love in Christ,
Marty

December 22, 2012 at 3:19 pm#325077

Participant

The falling away is here;this only means that the son of perdition will be revealed soon.

December 22, 2012 at 3:33 pm#325078

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 23 2012,00:51)

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 22 2012,21:11)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 22 2012,11:33)

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 21 2012,19:40)

1. There is NO resurrection of the bad.
But of the good only.

4. IF ONE IS RESURRECTED IN THE SPIRIT,ONE IS SIMULTANEOUSLY JUDGED ALREADY.

5. The sheep will be resurrected in spirit,and inherit the kingdom also.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

I do not share this understanding. Show me this by the scriptures.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Hi marty.

I cant give you the scriptures saying that the BAD will not be resurrected.
I am sure you have read all the prophesies.

We are about the SECOND resurrection here.

All I know is that once one is resurrected in spirit,he is judged already;therefore resurrected in spirit.

The BAD will be brought back to live again to be judged and then cast in the fire.You can choose the word resurrected if you like,but I feel that the word brought back to life is more appropriate.

The BAD should never be given a spirit body before judged.
A spirit body is a glorified body;something the BAD does not deserve AT ANY TIME.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

Any opnion relative to the Word of God should be supported by the scriptures, otherwise it is speculative. This is what causes confusion.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty.

I agree with you,but some times we can put two and two together.

Do you agree that the bad can never be given a spirit body
at anytime before he is judged? For a spirit body is the reward of the saints. Decerning scriptures is important.

Sometimes the scriptures can look contradictory; but by decerning the scriptures ,we can see that it is not the case.

Do you believe that the chosen jews will be brought back in their own land,and will live in peace for a 1000yrs?
Not resurrected;but brought back IN THE FLESH,FOR THEY WILL DIE AGAIN AT AN OLD AGE OF 100YRS,AND THE LION WILL EAT STRAW.

wakeup.

December 22, 2012 at 4:54 pm#325079

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 21 2012,18:33)

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 21 2012,19:40)

1. There is NO resurrection of the bad.
But of the good only.

4. IF ONE IS RESURRECTED IN THE SPIRIT,ONE IS SIMULTANEOUSLY JUDGED ALREADY.

5. The sheep will be resurrected in spirit,and inherit the kingdom also.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

I do not share this understanding. Show me this by the scriptures.

Love in Christ,
Marty

I only agree with parts of this statement. I don't agree with point #1, because:

Revelation 20
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)

13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.

15 If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

I believe that ALL will eventually be resurrected and judged – some to go off into everlasting life, and others will be resurrected and judged just to go off into everlasting destruction. (Matthew 25:31-46)

Notice in 25:32, Jesus says that ALL PEOPLE will be assembled before him, and verse 46 says, the evil ones “will depart into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

I agree with Wakeup's point #2. I also agree that those involved in the first resurrection will not be resurrected TO BE JUDGED. I agree that they have already been judged favorably- which is why they will be a part of the first resurrection.

I don't agree with his point #3, #4, or #5. I agree with Marty on these points, that there is no scriptural support for them.

So how does this apply to Pierre's following points?

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 20 2012,21:29)

so if I understand you correctly ;it is the fact that Christ was the first born of the dead that you concluded that this is how we all are reborn or born again right

………we die and wait for the resurrection, but again the resurrection is for all good and bad………

Yes, ALL will be born again – both the good and the bad. Some will be born again and live forever, while others will be born again (resurrected) just to be judged adversely, and sent off to the lake of fire prepared for Satan and his angels.

Jesus clearly said that to enter the Kingdom of God, one must be born again of spirit. What he did NOT say was that EVERYONE who was born again of spirit WOULD enter the Kingdom of God. ALL will be born again (resurrected). But only those judged as worthy will then enter the Kingdom of God.

In other words, NOBODY, good OR bad, will ever enter the Kingdom of God WITHOUT being born again (resurrected) as a spirit being. But………. That doesn't mean that all who are born again (resurrected) will enter that Kingdom. Only the “good ones” will.

This is my understanding.

December 22, 2012 at 8:46 pm#325106

Participant

Mike

Quote

So how does this apply to Pierre's following points?
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 20 2012,21:29)
so if I understand you correctly ;it is the fact that Christ was the first born of the dead that you concluded that this is how we all are reborn or born again right

………we die and wait for the resurrection, but again the resurrection is for all good and bad………

In other words, NOBODY, good OR bad, will ever enter the Kingdom of God WITHOUT being born again (resurrected) as a spirit being. But………. That doesn't mean that all who are born again (resurrected) will enter that Kingdom. Only the “good ones” will.

This is my understanding.

we have to understand first that Christ said he had two pens of sheep the first was gathered by him but latter their would be a call for the other pen of sheep,
this is why Paul also makes the resurrection in stages ;1Co 15:23 But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

and are all believers to be resurrected and go to heaven NO ;Eph 3:14 For this reason I kneel before the Father,
Eph 3:15 from whom his whole family in heaven and on earth derives its name.

would God destroyed his earthly family NO,

Phil 3:14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
Phil 3:15 All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.

NOT ALL ARE CALLED TO BE WITH CHRIST IN HEAVEN;144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.

let compere a few scriptures ;

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
Jn 3:6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

;in this last verse Christ talks about how to reach one that saves and bring us in the kingdom ;by compering two realities ;first ;Flesh gives birth to flesh -this we can understand easily right ;secondly; but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
now what spirit did Jesus talk about here was it an new body after the resurrection how can a new body would change your soul I mean who you are ,to me it would be like “stepping in an car and in time stepping out of it in an other place,it would not changed US in any way ;this is why Christ says ;Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”
what is Jesus meaning worship God IN SPIRIT WHAT SPIRIT DOES HE TALKED ABOUT it is the spirit of the believers right Yes-now of what TRUTH does he talking about GODS TRUTH RIGHT ???Yes

so this means that the culture of the flesh must die;and the new culture from Gods spirit and truth as to replace it COMPLETLY ,THEN and only then we have become spirit and are reborn BY THE WILL OF GOD ACCORDING TO HIS TRUTH ,this is repeadedly reminded by the disciples;

1Pe 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope…..

1Pe 1:5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
1Pe 1:6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials.
1Pe 1:7 These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.
1Pe 1:8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy,
1Pe 1:9 for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

1Pe 1:13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed.
1Pe 1:14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance.
1Pe 1:15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do;
1Pe 1:16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”

1Pe 1:22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.
1Pe 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

there are many more scriptures to quote but for now it should be enough ,

December 22, 2012 at 11:00 pm#325114

Participant

Mike

these scriptures are telling us how we are reborn like babe ;1Pe 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
1Pe 1:24 For,
“All men are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
1Pe 1:25 but the word of the Lord stands forever.”

And this is the word that was preached to you.
1Pe 2:1 Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind.
1Pe 2:2 Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation,
1Pe 2:3 now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.

when we come to the understanding of Gods truth that is were we begin as babies and we have to grow to MATURITY some will never do reach maturity they are the left behind ,1Pe 2:7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
“The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone,’”
1Pe 2:8 and,
“A stone that causes men to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall.”

They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.

so it is by following the message and accept it that we become reborn

HEB 6:1 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,

we have to stop always to reinventing our faith in God ,but once and for all move ahead and so know that the faith we have acquired is now ours and so do not need to be put in doubt again , we know that scriptures says that some will stay babies ,just like their are some on this site ,never advances always remain stagnant almost dead according to the scriptures,and so never reach to obtain salvation ,

Mt 25:26 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed?
Mt 25:27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
Mt 25:28 “ ‘Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents.
Mt 25:29 For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.

if we do not believe the message then we are not even a babe but a stranger to the truth of God ,and if we believe in the message then we have become a baby in the truth and some have been studying the scriptures for a long time and yet remain at a baby stage,maturity take practice into the applying of the truth on the inside of us and the out side of us ,this is why Christ quoted the TWO MOST IMPORTANT COMMANDMENTS 1) FOR THE INSIDE MAN AND ONE FOR THE OUTSIDE MAN ,

the once that fulfill this are called ,righteous man ,holy ,listeners to the word of God not hearers only .and so are BORN AGAIN

December 23, 2012 at 1:25 am#325115

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 23 2012,02:54)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 21 2012,18:33)

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 21 2012,19:40)

1. There is NO resurrection of the bad.
But of the good only.

4. IF ONE IS RESURRECTED IN THE SPIRIT,ONE IS SIMULTANEOUSLY JUDGED ALREADY.

5. The sheep will be resurrected in spirit,and inherit the kingdom also.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

I do not share this understanding. Show me this by the scriptures.

Love in Christ,
Marty

I only agree with parts of this statement. I don't agree with point #1, because:

Revelation 20
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)

13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.

15 If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Notice in 25:32, Jesus says that ALL PEOPLE will be assembled before him, and verse 46 says, the evil ones “will depart into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

I don't agree with his point #3, #4, or #5. I agree with Marty on these points, that there is no scriptural support for them.

So how does this apply to Pierre's following points?

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 20 2012,21:29)

so if I understand you correctly ;it is the fact that Christ was the first born of the dead that you concluded that this is how we all are reborn or born again right

………we die and wait for the resurrection, but again the resurrection is for all good and bad………

This is my understanding.

MikeB.

I appreciate your opinion.

You understood that this is only about the 2nd resurrection.
When the sheep would be put on the right, and the goats on the left.

This resurrection consists of all people that have died during all generations,with all kinds of believes.

The scriptures are not saying whether they (both,sheep and goats) will be resurrected in the flesh or in the spirit.

I was not clear explaining this.

I believe that the sheep and goats will be resurrected in the flesh; seperated,and judged by the book.

The sheep will be changed,given a glorified body.
and the goats cast in the fire in the flesh.

Not forgetting that these are not all christians.

a). Jews that have been taught during the 1000yrs(the chosen), and also jews that died during the ages,not chosen.
b). The lukewarm christians.
c). Non christians of all generations.

I also believe that the wicked will never be changed into a glorified body.

I also believe that there is a difference between resurrection, and brought back to life.

sample:
Lazarus was not resurrected,but brought back to life.(revived). Because he did die again when his years are fulfilled.

(Matt.27:52).
The saints that came out of their graves after the resurrection of Christ; they were not resurrected,but brought back to life,for they will die again,and resurrected at the coming,for they are saints.

Ez.37. Is about putting flesh and sinews and skin to the dry bones.
They were not resurrected;but brought back to life.

wakeup.

December 23, 2012 at 5:24 pm#325150

mikeboll64

Blocked

I have now become confused by the posts on this thread. I don't even know what Pierre is trying to tell me with his scriptures. And I don't know that there is a difference between being “resurrected” and being “brought back to life”.

From Dictionary.com:
res·ur·rect
[rez-uh-rekt]

verb (used with object)
1. to raise from the dead; bring to life again.

December 23, 2012 at 8:56 pm#325155

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 24 2012,03:24)

I have now become confused by the posts on this thread.

I don't even know what Pierre is trying to tell me with his scriptures. And I don't know that there is a difference between being “resurrected” and being “brought back to life”.

From Dictionary.com:
res·ur·rect
[rez-uh-rekt]

verb (used with object)
1. to raise from the dead; bring to life again.

Hi Mike B.

Here is ez.37.

Ezekiel 37:1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of BONES,

Ezekiel 37:2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very MANY in the open valley; and, lo, they were VERY DRY.

Ezekiel 37:3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones LIVE? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.

Ezekiel 37:4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.

Ezekiel 37:5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause BREATH to enter into you, and ye shall LIVE:

Ezekiel 37:6 And I will lay SINEWS upon you, and will bring up FLESH upon you, and cover you with SKIN, and put BREATH in you, and ye shall live; and ye SHALL know that I am the LORD.

Ezekiel 37:7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, BONE to his BONE.

Ezekiel 37:8 And when I beheld, lo, the SINEWS and the FLESH came up upon them, and the SKIN covered them above: but there was no BREATH in them.

Ezekiel 37:9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the WIND, prophesy, son of man, and say to the WIND, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O BREATH, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.

Ezekiel 37:10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, AND STOOD up upon their feet, an exceeding GREAT ARMIE.( not necessary soldiers,but a great armie of people).

Ezekiel 37:11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are THE WHOLE HOUSE OF ISRAEL: behold, THEY SAY, Our bones are dried, and our HOPE is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

Ezekiel 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I WILL OPEN YOUR GRAVES, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and BRING YOU into the land of ISRAEL.

Ezekiel 37:13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up OUT OF YOUR GRAVES,

Ezekiel 37:14 And SHALL put my spirit in you, and ye SHALL live, and I shall place you in your OWN LAND: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

Ezekiel 37:15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,

Ezekiel 37:16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:

Ezekiel 37:17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

Ezekiel 37:18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?

Ezekiel 37:19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
(JUDAH AND ISRAEL WILL BECOME ONE)

Ezekiel 37:20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

Ezekiel 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I WILL take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will GATHER them on every side, and BRING them into their own land:(TIS IS NOT SPEAKING ABOUT 1948,FOR THIS IS THE SECOND GATHERING).(1948 IS THE FIRST GATHERING).

Ezekiel 37:22 And I will make them ONE NATION in the land upon the MOUNTAINS of Israel; and ONE KING shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

Ezekiel 37:23 Neither shall they DEFILE THEMSELVES ANYMORE with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I WILL SAVE THEM out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will CLEANSE them: so shall they be MY PEOPLE, and I will be their God.

Ezekiel 37:24 And DAVID MY SERVANT SHALL BE KING over them; and they all shall have ONE shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and OBSERVE my statutes, and do them.

Ezekiel 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

Ezekiel 37:26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an EVERLASTING covenant with them: and I will place them, and MULTIPLY them, and will set my SANCTUARY in the MIDS of them for evermore.

Ezekiel 37:27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Ezekiel 37:28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do SANCTIFY Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
—————————————————————
These are the jews(israel) being revived, by election.
The flesh put back on the bones.

This is not the resurection;but the bringing back to life.
They will be the popuplation in the kingdom.(IN ISRAEL).
This is where it says in Isaiah 65:19—25.,when the lion will eat straw.

They will live up to a 100yrs old and then die again,and resurrected in the 2nd resurrection.

The resurrection is when the saints will be given a glorified body(spirit body).

A spirit body is the reward of the saints only,so the bad in the 2nd resurrection will not be given a spirit body,but flesh.

ps.
Pierre has the habit of quoting scriptures that are not connected to the subject discussed.Sorry Pierre.

wakeup.

December 23, 2012 at 11:17 pm#325164

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 23 2012,01:33)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 23 2012,00:51)

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 22 2012,21:11)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 22 2012,11:33)

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 21 2012,19:40)

1. There is NO resurrection of the bad.
But of the good only.

4. IF ONE IS RESURRECTED IN THE SPIRIT,ONE IS SIMULTANEOUSLY JUDGED ALREADY.

5. The sheep will be resurrected in spirit,and inherit the kingdom also.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

I do not share this understanding. Show me this by the scriptures.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Hi marty.

I cant give you the scriptures saying that the BAD will not be resurrected.
I am sure you have read all the prophesies.

We are about the SECOND resurrection here.

All I know is that once one is resurrected in spirit,he is judged already;therefore resurrected in spirit.

The BAD will be brought back to live again to be judged and then cast in the fire.You can choose the word resurrected if you like,but I feel that the word brought back to life is more appropriate.

The BAD should never be given a spirit body before judged.
A spirit body is a glorified body;something the BAD does not deserve AT ANY TIME.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

Any opnion relative to the Word of God should be supported by the scriptures, otherwise it is speculative. This is what causes confusion.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty.

I agree with you,but some times we can put two and two together.

Do you agree that the bad can never be given a spirit body
at anytime before he is judged? For a spirit body is the reward of the saints. Decerning scriptures is important.

Sometimes the scriptures can look contradictory; but by decerning the scriptures ,we can see that it is not the case.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

I agree that the wicked dead will be resurrected to be judged according to their works, but the scriptures do not tell us in what body they will be resurrected. It will probably not be a spiritual body because the body and soul will be destroyed.

Quote

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The dead in Christ will be resurrected in the first resurrection with a spiritual body, and those who are alive at the coming of the Lord will receive their spirtual body by being changed in a moment and twinkling of an eye and both will meet the Lord in the air and will be with him forever more.

If we go with the Lord in this resurrection, we are not judged guilty of sin. Our sins have been forgiven, but we will be go before the judgement seat of Christ and judged according to our works for rewards.

Love in Christ,
Marty

December 23, 2012 at 11:28 pm#325165

Participant

Hi Mike:

There is a difference between being born again from the dead (spiritual death or separation from God) and being resurrected from a physical death. Jesus was the “first born again from a spiritual death”. Of course, he was also raised from a physical death, but with a spiritual body. However there were others who had been raised from a physical death prior to him. They were resurrected, but they had not been born again from state of spiritual death.

Love in Christ,
Marty

December 23, 2012 at 11:34 pm#325167

Participant

Marty.

When the saints are resurrected,this means they have been given their reward already,no need to be judged again.

wakeup.

December 24, 2012 at 12:00 am#325169

Participant

Hi wakeup:

I do not believe that all generations who have died will be resurrected to be judged.

The scripture states that:

Quote

Rom 5:12 ¶ Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Adam and Eve's judgement for disobeying God was:

Quote

Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;

Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return

Those who lived during this period of time until the flood shared this same judgement. During this period of time, Enoch repented and walked with God, and was saved, and possibly Abel was in right standing with God when he was murdered by Cain. Noah and his family were saved from the judgement by the flood by the Arc. Those who were judged by the flood have been destroyed.

Those who obeyed God under the Law of Moses will be born again from the dead when Jesus comes for the church. They are part of the body of Christ. The blood of Jesus will wash away their sins.

There were those who were judged by the Law and were destroyed. My understanding is that those who are not saved under the Law of Moses have already been judged. They will not be resurrected to be judged.

Quote

Hbr 10:26 ¶ For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Hbr 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Hbr 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Hbr 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

Hbr 10:31 [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Pharoah and his army were judged by God and destroyed when they pursued the children of Israel into the Red Sea.

But from the time of Jesus ministry until he comes for the church, the gospel is to be preached to every creature. Those who have died in their sins during this period of time, will be raised from the dead in the second resurrection to be judged according to their works. Thos who are alive and in their sins when the Lord comes for the church will be judged and destroyed by the seven last plagues.

Jesus said this relative to judgement:

Quote

Jhn 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

Jhn 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day

Quote

Luk 12:43 Blessed [is] that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

Luk 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.

Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;

Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for [him], and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not [himself], neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many [stripes].

Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Quote

Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Jhn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

Jhn 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Jhn 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Love in Christ,
Marty

December 24, 2012 at 1:04 am#325172

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2012,04:28)

Hi Mike:

Love in Christ,
Marty

marty

Quote

Jesus was the “first born again from a spiritual death”

what scripture do you use to say this

December 24, 2012 at 1:36 am#325173

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 24 2012,09:34)

Marty.

When the saints are resurrected,this means they have been given their reward already,no need to be judged again.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

Quote

2Cr 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.

Quote

1Cr 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1Cr 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1Cr 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Love in Christ,
Marty

December 24, 2012 at 1:46 am#325175

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 24 2012,11:04)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2012,04:28)

Hi Mike:

Love in Christ,
Marty

marty

Quote

Jesus was the “first born again from a spiritual death”

what scripture do you use to say this

Hi Pierre:

These are the scriptures:

Quote

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence

Here is the definition of the word “dead” in this scripture:

Quote

Word Origin:

from an apparently primary nekus (a corpse)

TDNT:

4:892,627

Part of Speech:

adjective

Usage in the KJV:

dead 132

Total: 132

Definition:

1.properly A.one that has breathed his last, lifeless
B.deceased, departed, one whose soul is in Hades
C.destitute of life, without life, inanimate

2.metaph. A.spiritually dead a.destitute of a life that recognises and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins
b.inactive as respects doing right

B.destitute of force or power, inactive, inoperative

TDNT – Theological Dictionary of the New Testament
TWOT – Theological Word Book of the Old Testament

Quote

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Love in Christ,
Marty

December 24, 2012 at 2:30 am#325177

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2012,06:46)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 24 2012,11:04)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2012,04:28)

Hi Mike:

Love in Christ,
Marty

marty

Quote

Jesus was the “first born again from a spiritual death”

what scripture do you use to say this

Hi Pierre:

These are the scriptures:

Quote

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence

Here is the definition of the word “dead” in this scripture:

Quote

Word Origin:

from an apparently primary nekus (a corpse)

TDNT:

4:892,627

Part of Speech:

adjective

Usage in the KJV:

dead 132

Total: 132

Definition:

1.properly A.one that has breathed his last, lifeless
B.deceased, departed, one whose soul is in Hades
C.destitute of life, without life, inanimate

2.metaph. A.spiritually dead a.destitute of a life that recognises and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins
b.inactive as respects doing right

B.destitute of force or power, inactive, inoperative

TDNT – Theological Dictionary of the New Testament
TWOT – Theological Word Book of the Old Testament

Quote

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty

thanks,

but it is the word SPIRITUAL THAT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ,not his dead ,it seems to me that wen you are spiritually dead you are twice dead ;

so could you elaborate on this

December 24, 2012 at 2:57 am#325179

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 24 2012,12:30)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2012,06:46)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 24 2012,11:04)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2012,04:28)

Hi Mike:

Love in Christ,
Marty

marty

Quote

Jesus was the “first born again from a spiritual death”

what scripture do you use to say this

Hi Pierre:

These are the scriptures:

Quote

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence

Here is the definition of the word “dead” in this scripture:

Quote

Word Origin:

from an apparently primary nekus (a corpse)

TDNT:

4:892,627

Part of Speech:

adjective

Usage in the KJV:

dead 132

Total: 132

Definition:

1.properly A.one that has breathed his last, lifeless
B.deceased, departed, one whose soul is in Hades
C.destitute of life, without life, inanimate

2.metaph. A.spiritually dead a.destitute of a life that recognises and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins
b.inactive as respects doing right

B.destitute of force or power, inactive, inoperative

TDNT – Theological Dictionary of the New Testament
TWOT – Theological Word Book of the Old Testament

Quote

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty

thanks,

but it is the word SPIRITUAL THAT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ,not his dead ,it seems to me that wen you are spiritually dead you are twice dead ;

so could you elaborate on this

Hi Pierre:

We, that is all of humanity born of the sperm of man sinned and consequently, were dead of spiritually separated from God in our trespasses or sins.

Quote

h 2:1 ¶ And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

This is the first death or spiritual separation from God. Jesus paid the price for this first death by dying in our stead.

From this first death, we can be reconciled to God and be forgiven our sins through what God has done for us through the person of His Only Begotten Son and His Christ.

The second death will be eternal separation from God, and will be for all who did not choose to be saved through the gospel, and so, they will be twice dead.

Love in Christ,
Marty

December 24, 2012 at 7:24 am#325188