Born of water.

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 11 2013,07:29)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 09 2013,21:45)

DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT KIND OF LOVE IS GODLY LOVE ?

1 Corinthians 13

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 09 2013,21:45)

this is why we need to be born again means start from scratch ,drop the flesh and start anew in the spirit of Gods will ,so that we can be acceptable to become children of God ,

Pierre,

I believe we all now agree that Peter and Paul speak METAPHORICALLY about being “born again”, and “living in spirit”, etc. I have no disagreement with your claim that you have been METAPHORICALLY “born again”.

The disagreement stems from one simple thing: I don't believe Jesus was also speaking METAPHORICALLY to Nicodemus……….. and you do.

Here is why I believe Jesus was speaking of a LITERAL rebirth: He linked being “born again” with “entering heaven”.

So while you may be METAPHORICALLY “born again”, you cannot right now, in your flesh, enter heaven, right? Therefore, I believe the rebirthing that Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus about was a LITERAL rebirthing – one that is required before any of us are allowed to enter heaven.

I believe Jesus was talking about our bodies being changed like his was.

I do now understand why some Christians call themselves “Born Again Christians”. They are (hopefully) speaking in the same METAPHORICAL sense that Peter spoke of being “born again” – and not in the LITERAL sense of being able to enter heaven in their flesh bodies.

Mike

Was Christ not saying that to enter the kingdom you have to born again ? yes and later on say to Nicodemus that he does not believe in the words that him and his disciples were preaching

Jn 3:10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?
Jn 3:11 I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.

so why would it be unrelated ;to each other all of the messages that Christ was preaching was that THE KINGDOM HIS ON HAND, this does not mean that you do not have to do something to receive access to it ,and also Nicodemus seems not to know anything about those things Christ was preaching ,so the born again as to be metaphorical ,the same way Peter and Paul so actively preach the importance to stop living to satisfy the flesh ,

January 11, 2013 at 4:57 am#327406

journey42

Participant

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

How do we SEE the kingdom of God?
The prophets were given VISIONS,
and the scriptures give us a glimpse also,
we've been shown bits and pieces,
but truly, has any man ever seen God's heavenly kingdom and all it's glory with his own eyes?
Has any man here ever been there in heaven??
Has any man ever seen the face of God like the angels do,
and have meetings with him?

We will not see the kingdom and ALL IT'S GLORY until we die first, then get RESURRECTED,
….and IF still alive at the coming, then CHANGED IN A TWINKLING of an eye. Changed into spirit, quickened. Yes it's that fast. It happens the SEVENTH TRUMP….born again.

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be CHANGED

This is Zion. The woman in travail who gives ….BIRTH…. to her children IN ONE DAY. She's in labour guys. She's carrying children. She's in pain and she wants to deliver her children. She's GIVING BIRTH, and the estimated time of arrival is at THE 7TH TRUMP. IN FACT, IT'S NOT ESTIMATED, IT'S DEFINATE.

Isaiah 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

This is what being born again means. Born out of Zion's womb. Born a second time, but this time, not flesh, but SPIRIT. Just like our Lord Christ.
All must renew their mind first to worship in the spirit and deny the flesh (resist evil) but not all who claim to be “born again” have done this. Ok, you have been baptised in water, but this does not guarantee you a place in heaven, for who knows where your heart truly is (God knows) so not wise to claim you are “born again” for you will only be red faced if not accepted, but aim for being baptised with “the holy spirit” for this is the one important main requirement that will preserve our place in the first resurrection at the 7th trump, to be truly born again.

…and seeing that “the holy spirit' means “spirit of truth' …we must ensure that we seek and obtain this spirit of truth, and not spirit of error to secure our place in the first resurrection, when we are born again out of Zion.

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the spirit.

We cannot see SPIRIT. We can see FLESH however, because we are all still flesh, and we know when flesh is coming and where it goes because it's MATERIAL, we can see it, but when we are born of the SPIRIT We will be like the wind, going wherever our Lord sends us, just like the angels, and we will be invisible. Those born again are the saints who will guide the flesh that will exist in the millenium, This will be our job, doing the Lords work, same as what the angels are doing now. We can show ourselves if we need to, just like the angels can do. We will have the ability to manifest into flesh if the Lord directs us to. There are no limits.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
John 3:5 That which is born of the flesh is FLESH, and that which is born of the spirit is SPIRIT.

Born of Zion, at the last trump.

January 11, 2013 at 5:14 am#327407

Participant

Journey, you can be in the flesh (material) and also be in the spirit NOW.

January 11, 2013 at 5:20 am#327408

Participant

Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 11 2013,16:57)

We will not see the kingdom and ALL IT'S GLORY until we die first, then get RESURRECTED,

Yes, people have seen it, and I believe them.

January 11, 2013 at 5:25 am#327409

Participant

Flesh = Carnal.
Spirit = Spiritual.

Seek ye first the kingdom of God And His righteousness And all these things shall be added unto you Allelu, alleluia
(Song I sang on stage aged…. 11 – such a beautiful song).

January 11, 2013 at 5:29 am#327410

Participant

Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 11 2013,09:57)

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be CHANGED

Born of Zion, at the last trump.

J42
There are many things that scriptures are disagreeing with your view,

One is ,holy spirit ,= spirit of truth ,this is only one of the holy spirit tool, so it can not be what you say,

It also does miracles,

Born again can only be one thing ,and that his the transformation of someone person from one identity to another one like in from flesh to spirit but not through the resurrection ,because all the Jews already believed in the resurrection to judgment at the last day,

January 11, 2013 at 9:28 am#327425

Wakeup

Participant

Terra.

1. When was Jesus born again?

Was it.
a) when he was born?
b). when he was babtised?
c). When he was quickened?(changed in a twinkling of an eye).

2. What does first born from the dead means?

Please number your answers,as 1.2.3 etc.

wakeup.

January 11, 2013 at 9:42 am#327429

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 11 2013,14:28)

Terra.

1. When was Jesus born again?

Was it.
a) when he was born?
b). when he was babtised?
c). When he was quickened?(changed in a twinkling of an eye).

2. What does first born from the dead means?

Please number your answers,as 1.2.3 etc.

wakeup.

wup

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,

you can see in those verses that Christ did not need to be born again like us who are of flesh,

the only reason why Christ was the first born of the dead ;;;so that in everything he might have the supremacy. ;;;;
do you understand this

all your questions are irrelevant to Christ the only begotten son of God ,

January 11, 2013 at 10:09 am#327440

Participant

“If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.”

And to anybody,
If Baptism is NOT AN ESSENTIAL PART OF BEING BORN AGAIN…. why were they baptizing for the dead?

1Cor 15:29,
“If the dead will not be raised, what point is there in people being baptized for those who are dead? Why do it unless the dead will someday rise again?”

What do you make of that

January 11, 2013 at 10:28 am#327442

Participant

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 11 2013,15:09)

“If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.”

And to anybody,
If Baptism is NOT AN ESSENTIAL PART OF BEING BORN AGAIN…. why were they baptizing for the dead?

1Cor 15:29,
“If the dead will not be raised, what point is there in people being baptized for those who are dead? Why do it unless the dead will someday rise again?”

What do you make of that

2bee

“If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.”
do you know what it mean TO BE IN CHRIST

1Co 15:28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
1Co 15:29 Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?

look how Paul start his argument ;if there is no resurrection ;;; what he says next is ; if there is no resurrection why then are we still looking to make changes in our lives so that the non believers can see it that God does and will resurrect us from dead ,but if there is no resurrection then why are we still make those changes in their live for them(the dead) to see ,

water baptism just make you wet, for a Jew in Israel it meant a return to their God with repentance,

the following verses will tell you ;

1Co 15:30 And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour?
1Co 15:31 I die every day—I mean that, brothers—just as surely as I glory over you in Christ Jesus our Lord.
1Co 15:32 If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for merely human reasons, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised,
“Let us eat and drink,
for tomorrow we die.”

January 11, 2013 at 10:47 am#327444

Participant

T, it does not say that.
It says “If the dead will not be raised, what point is there in people being baptized for those who are dead? Why do it unless the dead will someday rise again?”

if there is no resurrection, why then are people being baptized FOR the dead (already dead without having the chance to be water baptized).

This is my understanding. Yet so many here are saying that water baptism has nothing to do with anything – it only “makes you wet”.

Is that truth? Or is scripture truth?

Do each and every one of you believe that you are without sin and so do not “need” to be baptized in water?

Well, I believe the scriptures.

January 11, 2013 at 10:52 am#327446

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 11 2013,12:51)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 09 2013,20:37)

“ye are not in the flesh” means that the spirit is now piloting the vessel of your flesh.

So then it DOESN'T mean that Paul was talking to spirit beings? And therefore, the teaching is METAPHORICAL, and not LITERAL, right?

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 09 2013,20:37)

The “Spirit of God” within them means that they have entered into God's kingdom.

I disagree.

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 09 2013,20:37)

Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Mike, are you suggesting that since you still exist in the flesh you cannot please God?

Ed, once again, Paul is speaking METAPHORICALLY.

Galatians 5
19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.

Note: What the NIV translates as “sinful nature”, the KJV translates as “flesh”.

In Romans 8:8, Paul is NOT saying that a flesh human being cannot please God. Nor is he saying that he, or anyone else to whom he was writing, was a spirit being.

“In the flesh” is an IDIOM for “acting according to our sinful, fleshly desires”.

“In the spirit” is an IDIOM for “acting according to God's will – as being led by spirit from above”.

Read the passage above, Ed. In verses 19-21, Paul is speaking about things that those “in the flesh” do, and warning that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

In verses 22-23, Paul is explaining the fruits of those who are “in the spirit”.

And in verse 24, he explains that those who are “in the spirit” have METAPHORICALLY crucified their own flesh.

Ed, have you LITERALLY crucified your flesh? If not, then you need to start understanding METAPHORICAL IDIOMS in the scriptures for what they are.

Hi Mike,

I agree with you for the most part here.
And you know where I disagree too.

I have killed the ego long age. And I believe that
is what “have crucified the flesh” means.
(metaphorically of course)

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 11, 2013 at 10:54 am#327447

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 11 2013,12:55)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 10 2013,06:33)

EDJ.

……….. when the time comes for the reward,you will receive your reward.

And if and when the time comes, you will be allowed to enter into heaven. Until that time, you will not enter heaven, nor have you ever entered into heaven before.

Sounds like you agree with Wakeup.

January 11, 2013 at 11:12 am#327450

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 11 2013,12:57)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 10 2013,02:40)

Know with certainty that it is the same Greek word used three times here:

And when Jesus speaks of us eating his flesh, is he telling us we must eat of his “carnal mindedness”?

Ed, just because a word is metaphorical in some scriptures doesn't mean that word is ALWAYS metaphorical.

Do you seriously think the word “flesh” ALWAYS means the same thing in scripture?

Besides, doesn't 1 Cor 15:50 also mention “blood”? Okay then. If YOU have blood in your veins, you have not entered into heaven.

Hi Mike,

We all had Adams blood, but the blood of Christ cleanses us.

(The Passover) (Lev.17:11) For the life of the flesh is in the blood:
and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement
for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

(The Passover) 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
(Pentecost) 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
(Feast of Tabernacles) 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God,
even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. (1 Cor 15:22-24)

Thy Kingdom Come , thy will be done
(Pentecost) (Feast of Tabernacles)

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying,
The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our LORD(YHVH),
and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 11, 2013 at 11:33 am#327452

Participant

Hi Journey42,

“Zion” is a metaphorical term for God's Holy Spirit.
Being baptized (also called Born Again) with the
Holy Spirit is being born Spiritually out of Zion.

Why tell others to wait until they die,
God's Kingdom is at hand NOW.

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 11, 2013 at 11:35 am#327453

Participant

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 11 2013,15:14)

Journey, you can be in the flesh (material) and also be in the spirit NOW.

Hi 2Besee,

That's right!

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 11, 2013 at 11:36 am#327454

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 11 2013,15:29)

Good Job Pierre!

January 11, 2013 at 11:54 am#327456

Participant

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 11 2013,20:09)

What do you make of that

Hi 2Besee,

1 Cor 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

Do you think Jesus is talking about water baptism?
Matt 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men,
him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

People that are baptized are making public their belief of Jesus atoning sacrifice.
We are all asked to make our belief in Jesus atoning sacrifice public.

“For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness;
and (~~water baptism~~) with the mouthconfession is made unto salvation.
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.” (Romans 10:10-11)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 11, 2013 at 12:53 pm#327479