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This debate is presented to Gene for his blatant attack on Islam calling all muslims hateful without the least bit of knowledge. Gene is very ignorant on this subject and does not even understand that all muslim children are not raised to dislike Jews and that most Muslims are not even Arabs and this is Gene’s great confusion. Gene confuses culture with religion. If he participates perhaps he will become educated and wake up to the truth.
BD……………> First of all where did i say (ALL) Muslims believe this way , I very well know not (ALL) do. that is you first error, Your second is to think that there are not those in the Muslim Faith that (DO) think that way, as has been verified by many reports and documentaries, It is a KNOW FACT that many Muslims Hate the Jews and the United States and England, and word for word recordings of their Cleric's prove it. Another lie is where you say i said (ALL) Muslims are hateful, Bd i never said that.
There are Hateful “Christians also but not “ALL” Christians are. BD, i was addressing the point that T8's video presented and that is true and an accurate video of what “SOME” Muslims are doing. Obliviously or you would not see childern Blowing themselves up and offering themselves as Mortars < You say i am mixing Culture and with religion , Yes especially when religion controls their culture, as in the Muslim Faith.
Even the early Christian Churches (the inquisition) that was being done by the Catholic and Protestant religions of their day. Even in my day i have seen Catholics and protestants kill each other as in the case of the Irish who also taught their childern to hate the opposite Faith, Don't kid yourself “religions” do effect cultures they are in. History is full of examples that prove this , not only of the Muslims but also Christianity, and other forms of religious practices.
You are wrong is “ASSUMING” that i think “ALL” Muslims are Haters of Christians i never said that. But it is interesting how defensive you suddenly became and all the preconception of what i never said came into your mind.
peace and love…………………………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 07 2012,09:16) BD……………> First of all where did i say (ALL) Muslims believe this way , I very well know not (ALL) do. that is you first error, Your second is to think that there are not those in the Muslim Faith that (DO) think that way, as has been verified by many reports and documentaries, It is a KNOW FACT that many Muslims Hate the Jews and the United States and England, and word for word recordings of their Cleric's prove it. Another lie is where you say i said (ALL) Muslims are hateful, Bd i never said that. There are Hateful “Christians also but not “ALL” Christians are. BD, i was addressing the point that T8's video presented and that is true and an accurate video of what “SOME” Muslims are doing. Obliviously or you would not see childern Blowing themselves up and offering themselves as Mortars < You say i am mixing Culture and with religion , Yes especially when religion controls their culture, as in the Muslim Faith.
Even the early Christian Churches (the inquisition) that was being done by the Catholic and Protestant religions of their day. Even in my day i have seen Catholics and protestants kill each other as in the case of the Irish who also taught their childern to hate the opposite Faith, Don't kid yourself “religions” do effect cultures they are in. History is full of examples that prove this , not only of the Muslims but also Christianity, and other forms of religious practices.
You are wrong is “ASSUMING” that i think “ALL” Muslims are Haters of Christians i never said that. But it is interesting how defensive you suddenly became and all the preconception of what i never said came into your mind.
peace and love…………………………………………….gene
Quote Childern to Hate and Kill is a Great Sin and the Muslim nations do this in there own land to their own childern, and try to tell us they LOVE GOD, how sad . These Hate mongers are now being dealt with by God in there own Nations and will also in the future When Jesus returns. IMO These are your exact words, I don't see the word “some” but I do see the words “Hate mongers” who were you referring to?
Also what makes you think that teaching children war is bad your own Bible approves the practice it even approves of complete anihilation such as with the Amalekites do you believe that God changes over time?
Malachi 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.Why do you not praise the Lord in ALL THINGS?
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.You see a thing and proclaim to know the truth of it?
Jeremiah 6:13-15
King James Version (KJV)
13For from the least of them even unto the greatest of them every one is given to covetousness; and from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.
14They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.
15Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.
you see the world different than God
Isaiah 55:9
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.any people that turn away from God are assured that their are consequences and these earthly consequences are dealt out through people on earth.
What you see in the Muslim world right now is a Spiritual revolution they are breaking away from these secular tyrants and over throwing them.
BD…………The” hate mongers” are those who teach their Childern to commit suicide by blowing themselves up and killing many other innocent people with them. What i see in the Muslim world is people fighting against there own peoples and governments and hatred toward Israel and the united States and England.
As far as them breaking away from those “tyrants and over throwing them” time will tell that one, So far one tyrant after another seem to take power but i hope you are right and they learn to live peaceable with all nations of the world.
peace and love……………………………………………………….gene
Bod Gene is not talking about all. He is talking about what goes on in these Muslim nations.
It would be obvious to assume that not every single soul is guilty and we also know that there are Christians who live in these nations.I met an Iranian Muslim here in New Zealand and he said to me that the day he arrived in New Zealand, he took a look around and realised that God had blessed New Zealand more than Iran. It troubled him especially because there are few Muslims in New Zealand. Why if there were few from the true faith would they be so blessed with prosperity, safety, and peace.
I read an article once where many Muslims confessed to wanting to live in the USA if they had the chance. Why would they grab the chance to live there if it was the Great Satan? Does it not seem odd that many Muslims if given the chance would want to live in the Great Satan?
I think deep down they know that there part of the world is not ideal at all. And why is that?
t8………..Amen brother. BD i am not saying (ALL) Muslims are alike, just as all Christians are not alike, Christianity has many different Sects and denominations, and has in the past taught their childern to hate other denominations also, But the bottom line is when “religions” take hold of governments and control peoples cultures then there is the possibility of great conflicts as all history has shown. That is why our for Fathers wrote into our constitution the separation of Church and State in order to prevent this from happening Here in the US.
And what T8 said is correct if we are what the Muslim World calls the “GREAT SATAN” then why are so many here as well as in Europe and all Christian Nations. Why do they flee their beloved countries, Is it not because they find Peace and the right to express themselves freely here, a freedom they do not have in their own Muslim nations where most things are controlled by their religious Clerics.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………………….gene
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 08 2012,21:05) Bod Gene is not talking about all. He is talking about what goes on in these Muslim nations.
It would be obvious to assume that not every single soul is guilty and we also know that there are Christians who live in these nations.I met an Iranian Muslim here in New Zealand and he said to me that the day he arrived in New Zealand, he took a look around and realised that God had blessed New Zealand more than Iran. It troubled him especially because there are few Muslims in New Zealand. Why if there were few from the true faith would they be so blessed with prosperity, safety, and peace.
I read an article once where many Muslims confessed to wanting to live in the USA if they had the chance. Why would they grab the chance to live there if it was the Great Satan? Does it not seem odd that many Muslims if given the chance would want to live in the Great Satan?
I think deep down they know that there part of the world is not ideal at all. And why is that?
T81 Samuel 2:7
The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up.Psalm 9:18
For the needy shall not always be forgotten: the expectation of the poor shall not perish for ever.It seems to me T8 you would have no argument for a well off atheist I mean after all they could argue God must not exist if he gave an atheist so much wealth but what you don't understand wealth or poverty are just tests
wealth and sons are allurements of the life of this world: But the things that endure, good deeds, are best in the sight of thy Lord, as rewards, and best as (the foundation for) hopes.
( سورة الكهف , Al-Kahf, Chapter #18, Verse #46)Let not their wealth nor their (following in) sons dazzle thee: in reality Allah.s plan is to punish them with these things in this life, and that their souls may perish in their (very) denial of Allah.
Fair in the eyes of men is the love of things they covet: Women and sons; Heaped-up hoards of gold and silver; horses branded (for blood and excellence); and (wealth of) cattle and well-tilled land. Such are the possessions of this world's life; but in nearness to Allah is the best of the goals (To return to).
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #14)Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 09 2012,00:17) t8………..Amen brother. BD i am not saying (ALL) Muslims are alike, just as all Christians are not alike, Christianity has many different Sects and denominations, and has in the past taught their childern to hate other denominations also, But the bottom line is when “religions” take hold of governments and control peoples cultures then there is the possibility of great conflicts as all history has shown. That is why our for Fathers wrote into our constitution the separation of Church and State in order to prevent this from happening Here in the US. And what T8 said is correct if we are what the Muslim World calls the “GREAT SATAN” then why are so many here as well as in Europe and all Christian Nations. Why do they flee their beloved countries, Is it not because they find Peace and the right to express themselves freely here, a freedom they do not have in their own Muslim nations where most things are controlled by their religious Clerics.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………………….gene
You answered the question yourself MOST MUSLIMS do not call America the GREAT SATAN and the Quran does tell Muslims to Migrate for a better situation:Surely (as for) those whom the angels cause to die while they are unjust to their souls, they shall say: In what state were you? They shall say: We were weak in the earth. They shall say: Was not Allah's earth spacious, so that you should have migrated therein? So these it is whose abode is hell, and it is an evil resort
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #97)BD…………But the one that Do say we are “The GREAT SATAN” are in Power in many Muslim Nations, and have been for quite sometime Now.
Where abouts in our scriptures is what you seem to be quoting “as a word” of GOD. Because in my Bible it say God separated the People and there Lands he give them for there own possessions. But you make it that God did not separate the Boundaries of nations, in that case lets all go anywhere and have no separations of cultures or ethnicity or uniqueness from one anther. It like saying let all mix with each other and no more individual distinction , Races are and cultures are “distinctions”, and are good in there own right, or why would God have made them different in the first place. I would love to visit all of them and spend time there with them all, Each add their uniqueness and verity to life, that is very good. I have no problem with that as long as they do not “FORCE” their belief system and cultures on ME, because i have my own belief, culture and Land given to me By GOD and i am satisfied with that.
Look at dogs for instance each has it own Character and looks, does that mean one is better then the other, NO, it does not although one many be better adapted to do a thing then another , but each Breed has it's own special look and appeal, so that there is verity in the earth and that is good, now lets say we simply mix them all up and what come out is what we call Mongrels all looking just alike all with the same abilities and color and size and looks. No distinct look and character traits. Now don't take that as i am saying People are dogs i am not i am just showing and example of distinction only, that we can see distinction is a good thing not a bad one. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 10 2012,00:00) BD…………But the one that Do say we are “The GREAT SATAN” are in Power in many Muslim Nations, and have been for quite sometime Now. Where abouts in our scriptures is what you seem to be quoting “as a word” of GOD. Because in my Bible it say God separated the People and there Lands he give them for there own possessions. But you make it that God did not separate the Boundaries of nations, in that case lets all go anywhere and have no separations of cultures or ethnicity or uniqueness from one anther. It like saying let all mix with each other and no more individual distinction , Races are and cultures are “distinctions”, and are good in there own right, or why would God have made them different in the first place. I would love to visit all of them and spend time there with them all, Each add their uniqueness and verity to life, that is very good. I have no problem with that as long as they do not “FORCE” their belief system and cultures on ME, because i have my own belief, culture and Land given to me By GOD and i am satisfied with that.
Look at dogs for instance each has it own Character and looks, does that mean one is better then the other, NO, it does not although one many be better adapted to do a thing then another , but each Breed has it's own special look and appeal, so that there is verity in the earth and that is good, now lets say we simply mix them all up and what come out is what we call Mongrels all looking just alike all with the same abilities and color and size and looks. No distinct look and character traits. Now don't take that as i am saying People are dogs i am not i am just showing and example of distinction only, that we can see distinction is a good thing not a bad one. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………….gene
GeneIt says if where you live is oppressive if you complain that it makes you weak and creating unjust circumstances you should migrate just as the Israelites migrated out of Egypt and Abraham migrated away from his native land and in America many blacks migrated from the south to seek better lives and today many families that live in gang infested neighborhoods should migrate to other communities to spare their children from that lifestyle in fact America was founded on that very same principle as the pilgrims Migrated here for a better life.
This does not take away the cultures it shares the cultures the Quran does say:
O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).
( سورة الحجرات , Al-Hujraat, Chapter #49, Verse #13)Yes the diversity expressed properly is awesome and it is with the righteous. just like you said you would love to visit them and enjoy the difference that shows a good nature but not all feel the same.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 10 2012,00:00) BD…………But the one that Do say we are “The GREAT SATAN” are in Power in many Muslim Nations, and have been for quite sometime Now. Where abouts in our scriptures is what you seem to be quoting “as a word” of GOD. Because in my Bible it say God separated the People and there Lands he give them for there own possessions. But you make it that God did not separate the Boundaries of nations, in that case lets all go anywhere and have no separations of cultures or ethnicity or uniqueness from one anther. It like saying let all mix with each other and no more individual distinction , Races are and cultures are “distinctions”, and are good in there own right, or why would God have made them different in the first place. I would love to visit all of them and spend time there with them all, Each add their uniqueness and verity to life, that is very good. I have no problem with that as long as they do not “FORCE” their belief system and cultures on ME, because i have my own belief, culture and Land given to me By GOD and i am satisfied with that.
Look at dogs for instance each has it own Character and looks, does that mean one is better then the other, NO, it does not although one many be better adapted to do a thing then another , but each Breed has it's own special look and appeal, so that there is verity in the earth and that is good, now lets say we simply mix them all up and what come out is what we call Mongrels all looking just alike all with the same abilities and color and size and looks. No distinct look and character traits. Now don't take that as i am saying People are dogs i am not i am just showing and example of distinction only, that we can see distinction is a good thing not a bad one. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………….gene
HI Gene,Of course you would expect satan to say the opposite of what our Lord says.
B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2012,14:04) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 10 2012,00:00) BD…………But the one that Do say we are “The GREAT SATAN” are in Power in many Muslim Nations, and have been for quite sometime Now. Where abouts in our scriptures is what you seem to be quoting “as a word” of GOD. Because in my Bible it say God separated the People and there Lands he give them for there own possessions. But you make it that God did not separate the Boundaries of nations, in that case lets all go anywhere and have no separations of cultures or ethnicity or uniqueness from one anther. It like saying let all mix with each other and no more individual distinction , Races are and cultures are “distinctions”, and are good in there own right, or why would God have made them different in the first place. I would love to visit all of them and spend time there with them all, Each add their uniqueness and verity to life, that is very good. I have no problem with that as long as they do not “FORCE” their belief system and cultures on ME, because i have my own belief, culture and Land given to me By GOD and i am satisfied with that.
Look at dogs for instance each has it own Character and looks, does that mean one is better then the other, NO, it does not although one many be better adapted to do a thing then another , but each Breed has it's own special look and appeal, so that there is verity in the earth and that is good, now lets say we simply mix them all up and what come out is what we call Mongrels all looking just alike all with the same abilities and color and size and looks. No distinct look and character traits. Now don't take that as i am saying People are dogs i am not i am just showing and example of distinction only, that we can see distinction is a good thing not a bad one. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………….gene
HI Gene,Of course you would expect satan to say the opposite of what our Lord says.
B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)
You didn't read my post if you had you would not have posted this garbage. By the way why do you keep using the MODERN version of the name of God why not use YHWH?BD……….But I can't speak for all people nor can you, I know this is my country i was born and raised in and i have my Culture that is distinct from others , My great grand parents come here in 1650, Just fifty years after the original James town colony they were neighbors with George Washington and lived in Westmoreland Colony Virgina and They came from England I have been raised and educated in the way of my Culture which is English American , As far as i am concerned this is one of the best places in all the earth to live , I could have became an Australian many years ago when My Father got information for me to acquired a 10,000 acre Land Grant in Darling Downs , I was just 18nyears old and did not want to leave my friends and family, one of the biggest mistakes in my life. Back then there were only 3 million people in all of Australia and they were begging English people to come to Australia , that has really changed sense those days.
But if I had Gone there I would have fit right in with them because most of there way were my way anyway and I would not have to change any thing about their Culture or way of doing things, I would have been a stranger in a strange land for a while as many immigrants to this county do also, but some try to change our culture to meet there culture and I believe that is wrong, If I were to go to say a Muslim Nation I would not try to change anything about them or there culture I simply would respect their culture and enjoy its uniqueness distinct way of life and coexist or just simply leave. I believe we all can get along if we all try and respect each others human rights and obey the law and cultures of the lands we are in. America is unique we try to see everyone as an equal and give equal opportunity to all, We believe in Freedom under law and our constitution is patterned after the English Magna Carter and the Magna Carter is after the TEN COMMANDMENTS OF GOD. WE were conceived as a Godly Nation who believes God way is the best way to Live which guarantees us Peace and Liberty and Justices for all. IMO
peace and love to you and yours BD……………………………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 10 2012,15:49) BD……….But I can't speak for all people nor can you, I know this is my country i was born and raised in and i have my Culture that is distinct from others , My great grand parents come here in 1650, Just fifty years after the original James town colony they were neighbors with George Washington and lived in Westmoreland Colony Virgina and They came from England I have been raised and educated in the way of my Culture which is English American , As far as i am concerned this is one of the best places in all the earth to live , I could have became an Australian many years ago when My Father got information for me to acquired a 10,000 acre Land Grant in Darling Downs , I was just 18nyears old and did not want to leave my friends and family, one of the biggest mistakes in my life. Back then there were only 3 million people in all of Australia and they were begging English people to come to Australia , that has really changed sense those days. But if I had Gone there I would have fit right in with them because most of there way were my way anyway and I would not have to change any thing about their Culture or way of doing things, I would have been a stranger in a strange land for a while as many immigrants to this county do also, but some try to change our culture to meet there culture and I believe that is wrong, If I were to go to say a Muslim Nation I would not try to change anything about them or there culture I simply would respect their culture and enjoy its uniqueness distinct way of life and coexist or just simply leave. I believe we all can get along if we all try and respect each others human rights and obey the law and cultures of the lands we are in. America is unique we try to see everyone as an equal and give equal opportunity to all, We believe in Freedom under law and our constitution is patterned after the English Magna Carter and the Magna Carter is after the TEN COMMANDMENTS OF GOD. WE were conceived as a Godly Nation who believes God way is the best way to Live which guarantees us Peace and Liberty and Justices for all. IMO
peace and love to you and yours BD……………………………………………………gene
Yes I agree but there have been much struggle along the way with racism but the ideal of America has seem to win over the racism in the long run but being a Black American I know it has been very difficult for generations before me but regardless even my race here is overcoming daily even now our President is Black so I know that God has done this whether you like the president or not the fact that Blacks are only 13 percent of the Population reflects the general population has given up racism as a whole.My debate with you is over and you have won the debate because Your viewpoint shows while you may have said something that wasn't very clear it is very clear that you do not harbor hatred in your heart and you have love as a guiding principle so I admit I was wrong about you.
T8 you can lock this thread before someone obscures its conclusion.
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