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I would very much like to discuss “war.” I've started a thread about whether Christians should go to war. It was very interesting.
Of course, no one here, not even the Pope who has apologized many times would disagree that Catholics have a bloody history.
But, what should this tell us about them?
Let's begin by looking at that history.
1096 Roman Catholic crusaders slaughter half the Jews in Worms, Germany.
1098 Roman Catholic crusaders slaughter almost all of the inhabitants of the city of Antioch.
1099 Roman Catholic crusaders massacre 70,000 Muslims and Jews when they capture Jerusalem.
1208 – 1226 The Albigensian Crusades in southern France. Roman Catholic crusaders slaughter approximately 20,000 citizens of Beziers, France on July 22, 1209. Both Albigensian Christians and Catholics were slain. By the time the Roman Catholic armies finished their “crusade,” almost the entire population of southern France (mostly Albigensian Christians) has been exterminated. During the six centuries of papal Inquisition that began in the 13th century, up to 50 million people were killed.
1236 Roman Catholic crusaders slaughter Jews in the Anjou and Poitou regions of western France. The Catholic crusaders trample to death under their horses 3000 Jews who refuse baptism.
1243 Roman Catholic mobs burn alive all the Jews in Berlitz, Germany (near Berlin).
1298 Roman Catholic mobs burn alive all Jews in Rottingen, Germany.
April 26, 1349 Roman Catholic mobs burn to death all Jews in Germersheim, Germany.
1348 – 1349 The Jews are blamed for the bubonic plague. Author Dave Hunt tells us, “Accused of causing the ‘Black Death’ Jews were rounded up [by Roman Catholic mobs] and hanged, burned, and drowned by the thousands in revenge.”
1389 Roman Catholic mobs murder 3000 Jews in Prague when they refuse to be baptized.
1481 – 1483 At the direction of the Roman Catholic inquisitors, authorities burn at the stake at least 2000 people during the first two years of the Spanish Inquisition.
1540 – 1570 Roman Catholic armies butcher at least 900,000 Waldensian Christians of all ages during this 30-year period.
1550 – 1560 Roman Catholic troops slaughter at least 250,000 Dutch Protestants via torture, hanging, and burning during this ten-year period.
1553 – 1558 Roman Catholic Queen Mary I of England (aka “bloody Mary”) attempts to bring England back under the yoke of papal tyranny. During her reign, approximately 200 men and woman are burned to death at the sake. Her victims include bishops, scholars, and other Protestant leaders.
1572 St. Bartholomew’s Day Massacre. French Roman Catholic soldiers begin killing Protestants in Paris on the night of August 24, 1572. The soldiers kill at least 10,000 Protestants during the first three days. At least 8000 more Protestants are killed as the slaughter spreads to the countryside.
1618 – 1648 The Thirty Years’ War. This bloody, religious war is planned, instigated, and orchestrated by the Roman Catholic Jesuit order and its agents in an attempt to exterminate all the Protestants in Europe. Many countries in central Europe lose up to half their population.
1641 – 1649 Eight years of Jesuit-instigated Roman Catholic butchery of Irish Protestants claims the lives of at least 100,000 Protestants.
1685 French Roman Catholic soldiers slaughter approximately 500,000 French Protestant Huguenots on the orders of Roman Catholic King Louis 14 of France.
Circa 1938 – 1945 Catholic dictators such as Adolf Hitler and Monsignor Tiso slaughter approximately six million Jews in Europe prior to and during World War 2.
1941 – 1945 The Roman Catholic Ustashi in the fascist state of Croatia butcher up to one million Serbian Orthodox Christians. Roman Catholic killer squads are often led by Franciscan priests, monks, and friars. This genocide is choreographed by two Jesuit prelates: Aloysius Stepinac and Ivan Saric. http://rekindlingthereformation.com/RTR-Articles-Papal-Rome-Timeline.html
I found that picture of the bishop shaking hands with Hitler. (I wasn't sure if it was a bishop or the pope.) It was in an old book I have.
Quote (david @ Aug. 29 2009,10:45) T8, this thread also serves no purpose. Delete it if you like.
davidYes, it does serve a purpose.
Do you know there are people that don't believe the holocaust ever happened?
What you posted are historical facts; what people don't understand is, that this killing was ordered by the Pope, the “Roman Catholic Church”, the image of the beast/Rome, the Anti-Christ, the false prophet, the beast out of the earth, the little horn, the one that looked like the lamb with two horns but spoke like the devil.
If it had not been for Napoleon he would still rule that way. The popes of the dark and middle ages were no different then any other dictator.
Did you know that the Vatican abolished torture in 1843?Georg
Quote Did you know that the Vatican abolished torture in 1843? –Georg
Officially yes. Unofficially….no.
Quote (david @ Aug. 28 2009,18:05) I would very much like to discuss “war.” I've started a thread about whether Christians should go to war. It was very interesting. Of course, no one here, not even the Pope who has apologized many times would disagree that Catholics have a bloody history.
But, what should this tell us about them?
Let's begin by looking at that history.
1096 Roman Catholic crusaders slaughter half the Jews in Worms, Germany.
1098 Roman Catholic crusaders slaughter almost all of the inhabitants of the city of Antioch.
1099 Roman Catholic crusaders massacre 70,000 Muslims and Jews when they capture Jerusalem.
1208 – 1226 The Albigensian Crusades in southern France. Roman Catholic crusaders slaughter approximately 20,000 citizens of Beziers, France on July 22, 1209. Both Albigensian Christians and Catholics were slain. By the time the Roman Catholic armies finished their “crusade,” almost the entire population of southern France (mostly Albigensian Christians) has been exterminated. During the six centuries of papal Inquisition that began in the 13th century, up to 50 million people were killed.
1236 Roman Catholic crusaders slaughter Jews in the Anjou and Poitou regions of western France. The Catholic crusaders trample to death under their horses 3000 Jews who refuse baptism.
1243 Roman Catholic mobs burn alive all the Jews in Berlitz, Germany (near Berlin).
1298 Roman Catholic mobs burn alive all Jews in Rottingen, Germany.
April 26, 1349 Roman Catholic mobs burn to death all Jews in Germersheim, Germany.
1348 – 1349 The Jews are blamed for the bubonic plague. Author Dave Hunt tells us, “Accused of causing the ‘Black Death’ Jews were rounded up [by Roman Catholic mobs] and hanged, burned, and drowned by the thousands in revenge.”
1389 Roman Catholic mobs murder 3000 Jews in Prague when they refuse to be baptized.
1481 – 1483 At the direction of the Roman Catholic inquisitors, authorities burn at the stake at least 2000 people during the first two years of the Spanish Inquisition.
1540 – 1570 Roman Catholic armies butcher at least 900,000 Waldensian Christians of all ages during this 30-year period.
1550 – 1560 Roman Catholic troops slaughter at least 250,000 Dutch Protestants via torture, hanging, and burning during this ten-year period.
1553 – 1558 Roman Catholic Queen Mary I of England (aka “bloody Mary”) attempts to bring England back under the yoke of papal tyranny. During her reign, approximately 200 men and woman are burned to death at the sake. Her victims include bishops, scholars, and other Protestant leaders.
1572 St. Bartholomew’s Day Massacre. French Roman Catholic soldiers begin killing Protestants in Paris on the night of August 24, 1572. The soldiers kill at least 10,000 Protestants during the first three days. At least 8000 more Protestants are killed as the slaughter spreads to the countryside.
1618 – 1648 The Thirty Years’ War. This bloody, religious war is planned, instigated, and orchestrated by the Roman Catholic Jesuit order and its agents in an attempt to exterminate all the Protestants in Europe. Many countries in central Europe lose up to half their population.
1641 – 1649 Eight years of Jesuit-instigated Roman Catholic butchery of Irish Protestants claims the lives of at least 100,000 Protestants.
1685 French Roman Catholic soldiers slaughter approximately 500,000 French Protestant Huguenots on the orders of Roman Catholic King Louis 14 of France.
Circa 1938 – 1945 Catholic dictators such as Adolf Hitler and Monsignor Tiso slaughter approximately six million Jews in Europe prior to and during World War 2.
1941 – 1945 The Roman Catholic Ustashi in the fascist state of Croatia butcher up to one million Serbian Orthodox Christians. Roman Catholic killer squads are often led by Franciscan priests, monks, and friars. This genocide is choreographed by two Jesuit prelates: Aloysius Stepinac and Ivan Saric. http://rekindlingthereformation.com/RTR-Articles-Papal-Rome-Timeline.html
I found that picture of the bishop shaking hands with Hitler. (I wasn't sure if it was a bishop or the pope.) It was in an old book I have.
Most of Europe was Catholic during much of these times. If ANYTHING happened it was by so-called “Catholics”.That doesn't mean that the Catholic church is responsible for the atrocities.
If you had any common sense, you'd see that I'm right.
Ridiculous accusations. But you have to construe these attacks to help you sleep at night. How else could you reject Christ's church and stay outside of the ark of safety?
Hi CA,
The church of the world is interested in worldly conflicts and domination.
Jesus has no part in such follies and he is the head of his body.Quote (CatholicApologist @ Aug. 31 2009,20:27) Ridiculous accusations. But you have to construe these attacks to help you sleep at night. How else could you reject Christ's church and stay outside of the ark of safety?
CARidiculous accusations? They are not only recorded in history books, they are even recorded in the Churches archives.
Does not the pope have a triple crown?
Does not a crown symbolize being a ruler?
Does not the pope claim to be ruler of heaven, earth, and purgatory?
Does not the inscription on his crown, “VICARIVS FILII DEI”, make him the self appointed Vicar of Christ?
Do you know Latin letters have a numerical value? Add them up in his title, and be prepared for a surprise.
When you ignore truth, you will believe lies.Georg
CA………… ridiculous accusations, come ON , man do you have your head in a cloud? The Catholic Church is responsible for the death and torching of Millions and Millions of People, and being part of HER cover up is not a good thing. Even some of the Popes were apologizing for some of the atrocities committed by the Church. You need to get your head out of the dark, to deny these things is making you part of them. IMO
peace and love…………………gene
So is Jesus Christ responsible for the death of millions? According to your logic, he must be since these people claimed to be His followers. But again, that is ridiculous…just like your logic.
Quote That doesn't mean that the Catholic church is responsible for the atrocities. So, the infallible pope was wrong when he mea calpa'd …..
Anyway, yes, they absolutely are responsible for the atrocities.
Quote Most of Europe was Catholic during much of these times. Too bad they weren't Christians. The whole thing would have been much less bloody.
You know, the fact that “most of Europe” was Catholic doesn't help you. Whether they are burning Jews alive, or killing other Catholics, both are insanely disgusting.
Too bad they weren't Christians…. Imagine if they were.
Quote So is Jesus Christ responsible for the death of millions? According to your logic, he must be since these people claimed to be His followers. But again, that is ridiculous…just like your logic. I find your blindness amusing.
Catholics claim to follow Jesus, therefore Jesus is responsible for the death of millions?
First of all, someone is responsible… millions did die. And I know you don't think Jesus is responsible. So who does that leave? It leaves the ones holding the guns, the one's burning people, the same ones who used to burn Bibles.
CLAIMING TO BE SOMETHING in no way whatsoever proves you are what you claim.
If I claim to be a Catholic, does that make me a Catholic? NO.
So, if someone CLAIMS to be a Christian, does that make them a Christian? NO.Well, what does?
MATTHEW 7:21-23
““Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.”Even people who sincerely believe they are on the Lord's side, will have been deceiving themselves if they are not DOING the will of Jesus' Father.
Claiming means nothing. Doing what Jesus said to do, means everything.
Quote (david @ Sep. 01 2009,18:22) Quote So is Jesus Christ responsible for the death of millions? According to your logic, he must be since these people claimed to be His followers. But again, that is ridiculous…just like your logic. I find your blindness amusing.
Catholics claim to follow Jesus, therefore Jesus is responsible for the death of millions?
First of all, someone is responsible… millions did die. And I know you don't think Jesus is responsible. So who does that leave? It leaves the ones holding the guns, the one's burning people, the same ones who used to burn Bibles.
CLAIMING TO BE SOMETHING in no way whatsoever proves you are what you claim.
If I claim to be a Catholic, does that make me a Catholic? NO.
So, if someone CLAIMS to be a Christian, does that make them a Christian? NO.Well, what does?
MATTHEW 7:21-23
““Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.”Even people who sincerely believe they are on the Lord's side, will have been deceiving themselves if they are not DOING the will of Jesus' Father.
Claiming means nothing. Doing what Jesus said to do, means everything.
Great. So you agree with me. It wasn't the Catholic church who killed these people. It was people who in many cases claimed to be Catholics.If you wanted to damn yourself as quickly as possible…and you used the Catholic teachings as a guide to accomplish this…Hitler would seem to be in the running with Stalin and all the rest.
Quote It was people who in many cases claimed to be Catholics. So the millions who killed other millions weren't catholic? Only claiming to be? Is that what you're saying?
Quote (david @ Sep. 02 2009,02:35) Quote It was people who in many cases claimed to be Catholics. So the millions who killed other millions weren't catholic? Only claiming to be? Is that what you're saying?
You pick things up quick.Murder is wrong. Our faith tells us that the end doesn't justify the means.
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 02 2009,06:06) Quote (david @ Sep. 02 2009,02:35) Quote It was people who in many cases claimed to be Catholics. So the millions who killed other millions weren't catholic? Only claiming to be? Is that what you're saying?
You pick things up quick.Murder is wrong. Our faith tells us that the end doesn't justify the means.
So, you're saying true Catholics don't go to war?In all the Catholics I've talked to, they've never given me this impression, so I just want to be clear on this.
Are you saying if a Catholic goes to war, they aren't really a true Catholic?
What of the Catholics who were cardinals, bishops, who bless troops? Every war that has been fought has had these.
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 01 2009,17:48) So is Jesus Christ responsible for the death of millions? According to your logic, he must be since these people claimed to be His followers. But again, that is ridiculous…just like your logic.
C AYou may be surprised to hear me say this but, yes, Jesus was responsible for the death of millions. Did he not say, ” he who endures to the end will sit with me on my throne, just as I endured and am sad down on my Fathers throne”. The saints had to endure to the end, their end, they endured for Christs sake.
Perhaps this will make you feel better, the Pope did not do any killing himself, nor did any of the clergy, they only ordered the tortures, and executions, and recorded them, every scream.
The pope/Anti-Christ was to rule for 1260 days/years, and he did. The popes you see today are no rulers, although they would like to be, they hold an image in the peoples mind just as the Iatomely does to the Muslims, or the Buddha figure of India, or any other strange religion.
Did not Jesus say, “in vain they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men”? who do we think he meant?
Does calling ourselves Christians, really make us Christians?Georg
Quote (david @ Sep. 02 2009,11:40) Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 02 2009,06:06) Quote (david @ Sep. 02 2009,02:35) Quote It was people who in many cases claimed to be Catholics. So the millions who killed other millions weren't catholic? Only claiming to be? Is that what you're saying?
You pick things up quick.Murder is wrong. Our faith tells us that the end doesn't justify the means.
So, you're saying true Catholics don't go to war?In all the Catholics I've talked to, they've never given me this impression, so I just want to be clear on this.
Are you saying if a Catholic goes to war, they aren't really a true Catholic?
No. There is room for disagreement on this issue between Catholics. However, wars like the Iraq war have been condemned by bishops like Botean.The “just war” doctrine could be discussed in a seperate thread, but I'm not sure it really matters right now.
There are so many more important issues, like finding a common ground in regard to authority.
If there are millions of Catholics who think they're Catholics, but they're not true Catholics,….how do I know you're not one of them? How do I know you are a true Catholic?
Is there not an official doctrine/belief on killing other people?
I know how the earliest Christians acted. I know what the Bible says. What does the Catholic church say?
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