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David………We have to learn to separate the Spiritual from the Physical, blood in scripture is a spiritual principle, like eating clean and unclean animals . They whole idea behind not eating Blood has to do with the word (EAT) Which symbolically means (take to ones self) God was showing us we are not to take to ourselves (THE POWER) to take life from anyone. Life is in the blood, so if you take to yourself (eat) the blood of something else your are taking its life from it. Its all Symbolic. You JW need to separate the Symbolism from the Physical reality.
This principle applies to when Jesus said Whosoever will save his (life) will lose it, and howsoever will lose his life will save, the Key is in the word (Lose), it means to (let go of). Jesus was simple saying in order for us to be saved we must let go of (OUR LIVES< THE WAY WE LIVE) and Follow Him. He did not mean we should go out and physically kill ourselves. WE ALL MUST LEARN TO SEE THINGS WRITTEN IN A SPIRITUAL SENSE< NOT IN A PHYSICAL SENSE. Jesus said the words i am telling you are SPIRIT, and therefore must be perceived in a spiritual sense.
This is how so many CULTS operate they get there believer thinking that the Spiritual concepts are in fact Physical one and distort the minds of there followers. David i know a man who was not a JW, but His wife was and they had a son that needed a heart operation and His wife and the Son did not want the Blood transfusion and said GOD would take care of it and they wouldn't need the blood. The Son died on the operating table from lack of blood David you need to reconsider that Cult and see it for what it is. IMO
peace ……………gene
Quote (david @ Nov. 27 2008,16:38) “A Sheep among wolves. Are you trying to convince your W.J. Brethren what your beliefs are and convert them, or why are you in that Church? I just can't See that you can fellowship with people that have a different understand of the Bible then what you have. How do you do that? Do you argue with them? Or do you not say anything to them? I am really interested in what you do.
Peace and Love Mrs.”–Quick Intro Thread.I guess she got it right. And I guess I was right in saying you wouldn't be a JW for very long. You kept saying everything was fine, but I kept saying it couldn't last, based on what you were describing. You kept saying you don't make a point to speak against JW's, when that is primarily what you do. Now that we all know who you are, the conversation is more honest.
I just didn't want the people on here to think that someone named “dirtyknections” would in any way be involved with JW's.
Now, they know the truth. You are not. Good.Quote Therefore..medically it is considered in the same vein as an organ transplant…just..liquid…well here is the question… DO JW's ACCEPT ORGAN TRANSPLANTS?
The answer: YES..they do
If we did accept organ transplants, how would this apply? Which scripture says to “abstain from kidneys” or to “abstain from heart transplants”? It just says to “abstain from blood.”
Any ideas why? Why is it that despite me repeatedly bringing this up, people tend to shy away from answering why we are to “abstain from blood.”?
What are the principles behind this command? If we knew why God commanded this, would it not help us to consider how we should treat blood? Or does any of this even matter? Does the reason behind why God gave this command and why it was repeated matter to anyone?
It's true that this is not a black and white subject and that it is one that often involves conscience. Over time, blood has been broken down into more and more fractions.
Quote Now the question becomes..if a blood transfusion is not “eating” blood….and is the same thing as an organ transplant..
why do JW's continue to let thousands of their members die because of a jaded, un-biblical, ever changing POLICY?I can see how many whose present lives are far more valuable to them then serving God forever would see it this way.
I wonder if those same people consider this verse wrong:
MATTHEW 16:24-25
“Then Jesus said to his disciples: “If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake and continually follow me. For whoever wants to save his soul will lose it; but whoever loses his soul for my sake will find it.”
The idea of losing your life for the sake of your faith….is that crazy? Is it more important to “save [your] soul, or life, now? What does the scripture say?
Is the thinking of Jesus' words wrong? Are there any today who would still hold to these words?Contrary to how some today reason, God’s law on blood was not to be ignored just because an emergency arose. During a wartime crisis, some Israelite soldiers killed animals and “fell to eating along
with the blood.”
Oh, but it must have been ok, because of the special situation. In view of the emergency, was it permissible for them to sustain their lives with blood? No. Their commander pointed out that their course was still a grave wrong. (1 Samuel 14:31-35) Hence, precious as life is, our Life-Giver never said that his standards could be ignored in an emergency.Why did God command this abstaining from blood? How important is it to him?
For the record..”David”..I was not df'ed….lolI just walked away..
I pray you one-day see the light…”brother”
For all who are wondering…see this link for a good synopsis on the “truth” about the “truth” of JW
Really quick i would like to add…the JW's blood policy is akin to this:
The wedding ring is a symbol of the union between 2 people…say someone told you that they would destroy your marriage if you did not give them your wedding ring…so instead of giving them the ring you choose to give up the marriage….essentially putting more emphasis on the RING..than what the ring REPRESENTS….
Same thing with JW blood policy…they put more emphasis on the blood than what the blood represents…Do not think for one second that GOD values the blood in your body more than the life it helps sustain!!!!
David go back to your throng of baby killers with that non-sense…Innocent JW's have been dying for 80 years over unscriptual JW rules..lemme give you some examples..
JW's for over 40 years taught that if a woman does not scream when being raped that she is a party to the rape and therefore is guilty of fornication..(i'll let that marinate for a while)
JW's until 1996 taught that anyone who accepted alternative service instead of military service was violating their “nuetrality” and therefore subject to sanctions and shunning…they changed the rule but fail to acknowledge that we STILL have JW brothers and sisters in PRISON for not accepting alternative service…
JW have paid out more than $20,000,000 over the past 5 years to victims of Molestation…see
http://www.silentlambs.com for the story on the watchtower and how they protect child molesters..even to this day..JW's teach that any married couple who engage in oral and anal sex are to be reprimanded and if they continue to engage in these things they are to be shunned…
I think I will stop there..see the above link for the REAL story on JW..also check out
http://www.watchtowercomments.com for and even better video study on the JW cult
David………Just remember God's word uses Physical things to express Spiritual principles, The physical blood is only and expression of life which supports our existence, and is and allegory of the Spirit. God was dealing with (CARNAL MINDS) and used CARNAL THINGS to explain Spiritual principles to them. One cam apply the whole Law in a physical sense, but what does it say “For the Law is SPIRITUAL” but we are CARNAL sold unto SIN. David we have to think in Spiritual terms brother.
love and peace to you and yours………………….gene
GB,
Listen to yourself
“To All………….A Spirit is the expression of Intellect, “So it is really all about INTELLECT and not SPIRITUAL things in your mind?
Nick…..Don't know what that has to do with what we are talking about here. But all Word are an expressions of ones intellect and come forth from the mind of a person. Not sure of you point Nick
love to you and yours………………gene
peace………………..gene
Without adding to or diminishing from the pure Word, we as believers today, we are to abstain from blood. The Torah says the blood must be dumped out on the earth. We are not to drink blood, or eat anything cooked in blood.
Blood is the life.
This is not telling us to obstain from animal protein in the form of meat. When an animal is butchered, the blood has to be drained out first. Commercial slaughter houses are supposed to follow this practice, as even the FDA has determined it is not safe to leave the blood in the animal.
Pretty plain to me.
I like mine medium rare. Yum!!!Laruel……….Looking at spiritual things in a physical sense does not give us the proper understanding. God gave CARNAL COMMANDMENTS for CARNAL MINDS , Minds that had to be controlled by fear Like it shows in Ex 20:20 As Paul said the (LAW) is FOR the (UNGODLY) and Sinners. WE are a Spiritual House and need to understand things in a spiritual sense.
love and peace to you and yours………………gene
To All………remember Blood in scripture is symbolic for (LIFE) when it says we are not to EAT (take to ourself) the blood, that means symbolically to take to ourselves the life of another. GOD is, the Physical prophets nothing. God worked with Carnal minds in Carnal way, because the Carnal mind can not comprehend Spiritual things. It is an enmity to God not subject the laws of God neither can be.
But the Carnal mind is subject to fear so God used Fear to control that carnal Mind. People who are trying to be perfect through fear are only operating through the Carnal Thoughts, God told us to be perfect, and perfect Love cast out FEAR, for fear has torment , and nothing is perfected in fear. Just as it says. We all need to see things in a Spiritual sense and understand them Spiritually. Remember Jesus said the words I am speaking are Spiritual and are LIFE>
love and peace to all……………..gene
Gene,
You want to get Spiritual, the way I understand it it simply that we are not to think that we can live “in the Spirit” when all the while we teach false doctrines whick suck the life blood of the Spirit from the souls of those who follow our false doctrines.These false teachers “thrive” in their evil hearts, on the souls of the innocent, condemning each and every one who listens to their lies, to the second death!!!!
That was the Spirit of Yahweh in me speaking so that you know I understand where you are coming from.
Let's not forget that He made these statutes, laws, and judgments for our own good, AND we are all sinners who ALL need Torah to guide our fleshy minds all day long and KEEP US on HIS PATH.
Laurel…..if you are accusing me of teaching false doctrine, please have the decency to tell me what false doctrine i am teaching. Laurel i believe you are misrepresenting the Spirit of Yahweh and are expressing your own spirit at least it look that way. You can go to the TORAH for your guidance if you want, But I will Just keep praying and asking God to Help and Guide the thoughts of my mind. Your rush to condemn others shows a different spirit then that of the God I know. I have never said God laws are not righteous and HOLY and Good , what i said was you can't go to them and be made right in your Heart as was proved many times in the old testament. A man is (MADE) right by GOD's Spirit alone, ” not by power or might, but by my SPIRIT says GOD. Here is something for you to figure out and come back and tell us what it means, Paul said” BY WORKS OF LAW SHALL NO ONE BE JUSTIFIED IN THE SITE OF GOD” Explain that to us.
Said in love………………gene
Gene,
In this instance I am simply saying that I agree that “blood” can be looked at from a spiritual perspective, then I gave an example of how that blood (life) is food for every false teacher.Why have you taken it so personally?
His Word is His Spirit. He is made manifest through His Word. You just can't plead “ignorant” when the Book is in your own hand to read it.
On the same note, every time we do what our conscience says is wrong, we add another veil to truth. We do not need a book to convict us. The Book if handled with TLC is the remedy for everyone who reads and believes it. It can take us back to that place that defines righteuosness.
If you think you can sit around and wait for the Spirit to talk to you, well, you will be waiting for a very long time if you have been consciously building a wall between you and Him. Are you waiting for dynamite to blow a hole in the wall you built with your own hands? If so,you just may be blown up in that explosion, or suffer a few lost limbs in the process!
What will it take for you to read the Book and believe it?
Laurel………I have both read and studied the scriptures for many many years and even studied the Torah with the Jews and Rabbi's as well as being under the law and Obey the Torah and all the Holy Days and keeping all the clean and unclean food laws as well a tithing's, for seven years or so. I truly know the Torah as well or better than most. I have studied scripture for over 55 years I am no novice at understanding scriptures. I have even had an article published in the Acts Magazine against the TRINITY. I am not saying this to brag, only to show you i am not a novice when it comes to God's Word,. What bothers me is people who think they can talk down to others or condescend on them. For you to say what will it take for you to read the Book and believe it , i find insulting to me< I ll put my knowledge of scriptures to your any day you or anyone else here wants.
said in love…………….gene
I have always tended to think that people who cannot answer questions about a topic, but throw out other non-related allegations, really don't know what they're talking about. But, if that's the game we're playing, and we don't want to discuss what the Bible says about blood or WHY….
All along I have been saying this regarding “dirtyknections”:
“You kept saying you don't make a point to speak against JW's, when that is primarily what you do.”
And all along he has denied it. Now, it's clear, this is what he does. All along, I said if he was a JW he wouldn't be for long. He kept saying: 'It's not like that.' And on this too, he wrong and I was right.His name speaks for itself. As far as I can tell, this is the reason he many years ago had problems with JW's. (He also mentioned this before in the “quick intro”):
Quote JW's teach that any married couple who engage in oral and anal sex are to be reprimanded and if they continue to engage in these things they are to be shunned… If you search the name “dirtyknections” which should give you a clue what he represents, and has always represented, you will quickly come to his words on the world sex guide forum.
The reason for the name, if you go to his site is:
“CUZ WE FILthy.”
And he keeps the name, to this day.This is the main reason people are disfellowshiped or even choose to leave JW's.
To quote “dirtyknections”:
I'm proud to say i've been the thru every level of Orlando's debauchery…
http://www.worldsexguide.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-7826.htmlI'll spare you the details of this proud debauchery.
I'm seriously not sure how anyone that claims to be Christian can have the name “dirtyknections” when God says we must be “holy” (clean) because he is holy. To be holy means to be clean.
2 Tim. 2:16-18: “Shun empty speeches that violate what is holy; for they will advance to more and more ungodliness, and their word will spread like gangrene.
Quote Like I said you are right…if you believe in hellfire and I don't we both can't be right…I agree…what I am saying is that the absolute truth lies with God…and I don't think we can attain that right now… but I do think we can attain the ESSENTIAL truths necessary for salvation… What are essential truths? Simply the gospel of Jesus
-You must Love God with wholesouled devotion
-You must love your neighbor
-Jesus is the messiah, he died for our sins, repent and take advantage now
-Gods kingdom is at hand
-Preach these things
–PAGE 16, “quick intro”, Dirtyknections.If someone loves God whole souled, so much that they're willing to lean on God's words and listen to him, even if it means their life, is this going against one of your essential truths? (What does it mean to love our Creator whole souled?) Or if they believe that the kingdom is at hand, and so, do not consider breaking God's commands because they actually have faith in God's kingdom and the resurrection hope…how is this out of line with your essential truths?
JW's abstaining from blood in no way detracts from these things you mention as your essential truths.Quote “abstain from blood.”? What are the principles behind this command? If we knew why God commanded this, would it not help us to consider how we should treat blood? Or does any of this even matter? Does the reason behind why God gave this command and why it was repeated matter to anyone?
Anyone?
Quote (david @ Dec. 01 2008,05:57) I have always tended to think that people who cannot answer questions about a topic, but throw out other non-related allegations, really don't know what they're talking about. But, if that's the game we're playing, and we don't want to discuss what the Bible says about blood or WHY…. All along I have been saying this regarding “dirtyknections”:
“You kept saying you don't make a point to speak against JW's, when that is primarily what you do.”
And all along he has denied it. Now, it's clear, this is what he does. All along, I said if he was a JW he wouldn't be for long. He kept saying: 'It's not like that.' And on this too, he wrong and I was right.His name speaks for itself. As far as I can tell, this is the reason he many years ago had problems with JW's. (He also mentioned this before in the “quick intro”):
Quote JW's teach that any married couple who engage in oral and anal sex are to be reprimanded and if they continue to engage in these things they are to be shunned… If you search the name “dirtyknections” which should give you a clue what he represents, and has always represented, you will quickly come to his words on the world sex guide forum.
The reason for the name, if you go to his site is:
“CUZ WE FILthy.”
And he keeps the name, to this day.This is the main reason people are disfellowshiped or even choose to leave JW's.
To quote “dirtyknections”:
I'm proud to say i've been the thru every level of Orlando's debauchery…
http://www.worldsexguide.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-7826.htmlI'll spare you the details of this proud debauchery.
I'm seriously not sure how anyone that claims to be Christian can have the name “dirtyknections” when God says we must be “holy” (clean) because he is holy. To be holy means to be clean.
2 Tim. 2:16-18: “Shun empty speeches that violate what is holy; for they will advance to more and more ungodliness, and their word will spread like gangrene.
Quote Like I said you are right…if you believe in hellfire and I don't we both can't be right…I agree…what I am saying is that the absolute truth lies with God…and I don't think we can attain that right now… but I do think we can attain the ESSENTIAL truths necessary for salvation… What are essential truths? Simply the gospel of Jesus
-You must Love God with wholesouled devotion
-You must love your neighbor
-Jesus is the messiah, he died for our sins, repent and take advantage now
-Gods kingdom is at hand
-Preach these things
–PAGE 16, “quick intro”, Dirtyknections.If someone loves God whole souled, so much that they're willing to lean on God's words and listen to him, even if it means their life, is this going against one of your essential truths? (What does it mean to love our Creator whole souled?) Or if they believe that the kingdom is at hand, and so, do not consider breaking God's commands because they actually have faith in God's kingdom and the resurrection hope…how is this out of line with your essential truths?
JW's abstaining from blood in no way detracts from these things you mention as your essential truths.
lol..are you serious..So every post on every forum under the screen name “David” we shall attribute to you then…fair?
get real “David”
http://www.watchtowercomments.com
for any who are wondering about the JW cult
Oh by the way David..you mention essential truths…but you and I both know there are a plethora of beliefs “unique to JW's” (thats a quote from them) that one has to subscribe to in order to “be” one…
Anyway…
http://www.watchtowercomments.com
Quote Oh by the way David..you mention essential truths.. No, you mentioned “essential truths.” I spoke of and quoted “your essential truths.”
Quote but you and I both know there are a plethora of beliefs “unique to JW's” If there weren't how would they be different from the vast majority of “Christians.” Just as the earliest Christians were different in attitudes, conduct and beliefs from just about everyone, so too, JW's are today. You got us.
Quote Quote So every post on every forum under the screen name “David” we shall attribute to you then…fair? get real “David”
First, if I am wrong, you should say so. You should have said so before. And if I am wrong, I am sorry, but why not tell me so, now or before?
I noticed you didn’t actually deny it. And your reasoning is flawed for these reasons:1. “David” is rather generic. “Dirtyknections” is not. If there are two “dirtyknections” on the web (and there aren’t more than two) then it is interesting that they both live in Florida. (Is it someone else from your music group?)
2. In the “Intro” thread, I said on page 9:
“I must say, your knowledge of MP's in Orlando is extensive. But, I guess that's the past. Maybe it's not even you. Maybe you stole the name from someone else in Florida, or they stole it from you. But those posts would definitely fit with “cus we filthy” which was you.”Your next response was:
“Wow…lol…David…you are really doing some serious intel on me…lol…”And this response, saying I was doing “serious intel on me” suggested that I was doing intel on you, not someone else. If that wasn’t you, why let me believe it was, by just ignoring what would have been an outrageously wrong comment?
3. As well, I then said in my next post to you (in the intro thread):
“But you're not “filthy” anymore right, or at least, it wouldn't be something you'd be proud of? At one time, you were proud of your “debauchery” but that is no more, or at least, something that you would no more be proud of. So why the name?”If this wasn’t you, it was like we were having a conversation about someone else, why didn’t you suggest that back then, instead of saying, I’m doing serious intel on you?
If I’m wrong, then I owe you a serious apology. But your previous responses didn’t indicate I was wrong.
To me, and others, your very name indicates that.“I think your users name is not Christian like. Who would ever want to be dirty. We as Christians want to be washed and made clean. So I hope you will change your attitude, it is rather a selfish one. Just because you have a Website with that name. “–Seek and you will find, “quick intro” thread.
Another reason it seems to be you. In another website, you say:
“Here is a quick rundown of what caused my crisis of conscience (yeah it was a good read). Blood issue, Alt Service, Oral/ Anal Sex. . . .”
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/158726/1.ashxIf it was a different “dirtyknections” on those websites talking about Orlando Massage parlors and various forms of sex, then I’m sorry. But again, this would be another coincidence, given your fixation with oral/anal sex.
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