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Nick has recently raised the question:
Quote Hi david,
Does God forbid his servants today from partaking of blood?He then stated:
Quote I do not think the issue relates specifically to the JWs but it is a very strong teaching in the OT and if one teaching must be followed from the OT why not this one… or the others.. Is it not a fallacy that only certain OT commands must be obeyed if any must be obeyed?
As Nick said, it was a very strong teaching in the Hebrew Scriptures. It was a command given before even the law. It predates the law. And it was again stated in the Greek scriptures.
So what do others think?
t8, somehow, the topic title got messed up.
I wanted it to say:
BLOOD
Are Christians to abstain from blood?Any way you could change that?
Somehow, a part of Nick's quote got put in there.
david
I abstain from blood per my belief in what I believe the scriptures to say on this.
I also find it interesting how in today's modern society, particularly during the 1980s, strong associations have been made to the spreading of deadly diseases through “body fluids.” I found that to be a fulfilling of this scripture:
1Cr 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
Hi david,
The original question was about pork and not blood. You will have a well planned presentation about blood but can you address the relationship between the decision to not take blood but accept pork in the diet?Ya, I think I remember you saying that Cubes.
Back in the days of Noah, an ancestor of all mankind, God laid down a remarkable law.
While granting hmans the right to eat the flesh of animals, he forbade them to consume the blood.david
GENESIS 9:4
“Only flesh with its soul—its blood—YOU must not eat.”
He also gave them his reason, equating blood with the soul, or life, of the creature. he later said:
“The sould [or life] is in the blood.”
In the eyes of the Creator, blood is sacred.
It represents the precious gift of life that each living soul possesses. God restated this principle again and again:LEVITICUS 3:17
““‘It is a statute to time indefinite for YOUR generations, in all YOUR dwelling places: YOU must not eat any fat or any blood at all.’””LEVITICUS 17:10-11
““‘As for any man of the house of Israel or some alien resident who is residing as an alien in YOUR midst who eats any sort of blood, I shall certainly set my face against the soul that is eating the blood, and I shall indeed cut him off from among his people. For the soul of the flesh is in the blood, and I myself have put it upon the altar for YOU to make atonement for YOUR souls, because it is the blood that makes atonement by the soul [in it].”LEVITICUS 17:14
“For the soul of every sort of flesh is its blood by the soul in it. Consequently I said to the sons of Israel: “YOU must not eat the blood of any sort of flesh, because the soul of every sort of flesh is its blood. Anyone eating it will be cut off.””DEUTERONOMY 12:16
“Only the blood YOU must not eat. On the earth you should pour it out as water.”DEUTERONOMY 12:23
“Simply be firmly resolved not to eat the blood, because the blood is the soul and you must not eat the soul with the flesh.”Shortly after Christianity was founded some 2,000 years ago, believers were given the divine commandment to abstain from…blood.” The prohibition was based, not on heatlh concersn, but on the sacredness of blood.
ACTS 15:19-20
“Hence my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God, but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.”ACTS 15:29
“to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If YOU carefully keep yourselves from these things, YOU will prosper. Good health to YOU!””Some argue that this God-given restriction applies only to the eating of blood, but the word “abstain” (NIV) speaks for itself. If a doctor told us to abstain from alcohol, we would hardly feel at liberty to inject it into our veins.
The Bible further explains why blood is so sacred. The shed blood of Jesus Christ, representing the human life that he gave in behalf of mankind, is key to the Christian hope. It means forgiveness of sins and hope of eternal life. When a Christian abstains from blood, he is in effect expressing his faith that only the shed blood of Jesus Christ can truly redeem him and save his life. –Eph 1:7
Quote The original question was about pork and not blood. You will have a well planned presentation about blood but can you address the relationship between the decision to not take blood but accept pork in the diet? Yes, I did above.
Quote It was a command given before even the law. It predates the law. So whether the law was done away with or not (which I believe you will argue) doesn't really matter. In the Christian scriptures we are counceled to abstain from blood. It was before the law. It was after the law. In the Greek scriptures, you will not find a specific command to “abstain from pork.”
david.
Quote (Cubes @ June 13 2006,22:51) I abstain from blood per my belief in what I believe the scriptures to say on this. I also find it interesting how in today's modern society, particularly during the 1980s, strong associations have been made to the spreading of deadly diseases through “body fluids.” I found that to be a fulfilling of this scripture:
1Cr 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
Hi cubes,
Interesting. Don you buy specially prepared meat at the butcher?
I realise that in the NT blood is mentioned too.
Acts 15.29
“that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication”But does this mean 'black pudding'?
Quote (david @ June 13 2006,22:31) t8, somehow, the topic title got messed up.
I wanted it to say:
BLOOD
Are Christians to abstain from blood?Any way you could change that?
Somehow, a part of Nick's quote got put in there.
david
Fixed.
Hi david,
I agree. But when one pours out the blood like water that leaves some blood in the body. Stripping out all the blood vessels, as the Jews do, would remove more but it is impossible to remove all the blood from meat as it permeates the tissue.
God showed Peter in a vision that he was to regard no food as unclean, symbolically also representing the gentiles who were with Cornelius [acts 15.11f] and hungry for the things of God. How does this relate?
Was the instruction in Acts 15.29 given to satisfy the abstemious jewish converts?Personally speaking, I do not consume blood intentionally. Besides it doesn't really seem that appetising to me.
But if I was dying and another man's blood could save me, then I wouldn't have a problem with that.
After all, if Jesus blood saved me, then I am not adverse to others saving me too.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 14 2006,04:16) Quote (Cubes @ June 13 2006,22:51) I abstain from blood per my belief in what I believe the scriptures to say on this. I also find it interesting how in today's modern society, particularly during the 1980s, strong associations have been made to the spreading of deadly diseases through “body fluids.” I found that to be a fulfilling of this scripture:
1Cr 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
Hi cubes,
Interesting. Don you buy specially prepared meat at the butcher?
I realise that in the NT blood is mentioned too.
Acts 15.29
“that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication”But does this mean 'black pudding'?
Hi Nick,Speaking off the top of my head: I believe that the clearance on diet restrictions was specifically given to Peter whereas that for blood has not. I have no dietary restrictions related to religious reasons though for health reasons I try to eat as conscientiously as I can.
I don't get to go to the butcher unfortunately except to get raw bones for Mongo occasionally. I also tend to stay away from ground meats, sausages and red meats though my primary reason for this is to cut down on fat content but I guess that secondarily the blood factor is controlled.
I eat out occasionally and do not give thought to the blood issue then but at the same time, I would not get something specifically known to be prepared of blood, and if I bought meat that was bloody, I would do what I can to get as much of the blood out.
Quote But does this mean 'black pudding'?
Gross.Thanks for fixing it t8.
Quote it is impossible to remove all the blood from meat as it permeates the tissue.
I realize this Nick. Similarly, God wants us to not sin. Yet, we do. But we must try the best we can.Quote Was the instruction in Acts 15.29 given to satify the abstemious jewish converts?
No, not at all. God views blood as sacred. He always has. The instruction given at Acts is a part of God's inspired Word and a reflection of God's thinking.Quote After all, if Jesus blood saved me, then I am not adverse to others saving me too.
Hi T8. Really, it is only Jesus blood that can save you. To break or go against God's command to “abstain” from blood will not save you in the long run.
Above, I wrote:Quote The shed blood of Jesus Christ, representing the human life that he gave in behalf of mankind, is key to the Christian hope. It means forgiveness of sins and hope of eternal life. When a Christian abstains from blood, he is in effect expressing his faith that only the shed blood of Jesus Christ can truly redeem him and save his life. –Eph 1:7 I would like to say that very very few operations are believed to require blood by most doctors. Jehovah's Witnesses were sort of the guinie pigs for this, but medicine caught up and has seen that a much higher quality of treatment is given when blood is not used. There are many alternate methods that don't bring along with them the dangers associated with blood.
Over the past six years, Hospical Laisison Commiettees for Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide have distributed tens of thousands of copies of the video prgram “Transfusion-Alternative Strategies–Simple, Safe, Effective” in some 25 languages to those in the medical community. The program shows world-renowned physicians discussing effective strategies currently used to treat patients without blood transfusions. And people are taking note.
For example, after viewing the program in late 2001, the National Blood Service (NBS) in the UK sent a letter with a copy of this video to all blood-bank managers and consultant hematologists throughout the country. They were encouraged to watch the program because of “increasing recognition that one of the aims of good clinical care is to avoid blood transfusion wherever possible.” The letter acknowledged that “the general message [in the video] is praiseworthy and is one the NBS strongly supports.”Quote Gosd showed Peter in a vision that he was to regard no food as unclean, symbolically also representing the gentiles who were with Cornelius [acts 15.11f] and hungry for the things of God. How does this relate?
Good question Nick. How does this relate? Does it?Hi david,
“God views blood as sacred”
Really?I would have said God does not need to regard anything as sacred though He may want us to regard things as sacred. But all He said was that life was in the blood and that is the reason for the command.
Do you eat KOSHER david?
Also an alternative that can apply in most planned surgeries, is to have the individual donate a portion of his/her own blood to be retransfused during surgery, just in case.
I have also prayed that God puts me in no position (temptation) more than I can bear and so far so good, folks. His grace extends to my family too.
LEVITICUS 17:11-13
“For the soul of the flesh is in the blood, and I myself have put it upon the altar for YOU to make atonement for YOUR souls, because it is the blood that makes atonement by the soul [in it]. That is why I have said to the sons of Israel: “No soul of YOU must eat blood and no alien resident who is residing as an alien in YOUR midst should eat blood.” “‘As for any man of the sons of Israel or some alien resident who is residing as an alien in YOUR midst who in hunting catches a wild beast or a fowl that may be eaten, he must in that case pour its blood out and cover it with dust.”That law was not a mere religious ritual with no import for us. Did you notice why the Israelites were not to consume blood? God said:
: “That is why I have said to the sons of Israel: ‘No soul of you must eat blood.’” What was the reason?? “I myself have put [blood] upon the altar for you to make atonement for your souls.”
Do you see that this provides insight into why God told Noah that humans were not to eat blood? The Creator chose to view blood as having an elevated significance, reserving it for one special use that could save many lives. It was to play a vital role in covering sins (atonement). So under the Law, the only God-authorized use of blood was on the altar to make atonement for the lives of the Israelites, who were seeking Jehovah’s forgiveness.
What about today?
This concept is not remote from Christianity. Referring to this divinely arranged feature of the Law, the Christian apostle Paul wrote:
“Nearly all things are cleansed with blood according to the Law, and unless blood is poured out no forgiveness takes place.” (Hebrews 9:22)
Paul made it clear that the required sacrifices did not turn the Israelites into perfect, sinless humans. He wrote: “By these sacrifices there is a reminding of sins from year to year, for it is not possible for the blood of bulls and of goats to take sins away.” (Hebrews 10:1-4)
Still, such sacrifices were useful. They reminded the Israelites that they were sinful and needed something more in order to gain complete forgiveness.“Why, then, the Law?”
He answered: “It was added to make transgressions manifest, until the seed should arrive to whom the promise had been made; and it was transmitted through angels by the hand of a mediator [Moses].” (Galatians 3:19)
Similarly, Paul wrote: “The Law has a shadow of the good things to come, but not the very substance of the things.”—Hebrews 10:1.12 In summary, recall that in Noah’s day God decreed that humans could eat animal meat to sustain life, but they could not take in blood. In time, God stated that “the soul of the flesh is in the blood.” Yes, he chose to view blood as standing for life and said: “I myself have put [blood] upon the altar for you to make atonement for your souls.” There was to be, however, a wonderful further unfolding of God’s purpose. The Law foreshadowed good things to come. What? Christ's blood.
Some churches emphasize Jesus’ death, their adherents saying such things as “Jesus died for me.” Consider how some Bible translations render Ephesians 1:7:
“It is in him and through his death we have deliverance, that is, the putting away of our offences.” (The American Bible, by Frank Scheil Ballentine, 1902)
“By the death of Christ we are set free, and our sins are forgiven.” (Today’s English Version, 1966)
“It is in and through Christ and the sacrifice of his life that we have been liberated, a liberation which means the forgiveness of sins.” (The New Testament, by William Barclay, 1969)
“It is through Christ’s death that our sins are forgiven and we are set free.” (The Translator’s New Testament, 1973)
You can see in such renderings an emphasis on Jesus’ death. ‘But,’ some may say, ‘Jesus’ death is truly important. So, what is lacking in these renderings?’
Really, if you had to depend on such translations, you might overlook a very important point, and this could limit your understanding of the Bible’s message. Such renderings obscure the fact that the original text of Ephesians 1:7 contains a Greek word that means “blood.”The rendering “the blood of that one” is rich in meaning and should convey much to our mind. More was needed than a death, even the death of the perfect man Jesus. He brought to fulfillment what was foreshadowed in the Law, particularly on the Day of Atonement. On that special day, designated animals were sacrificed. Then the high priest took some of their blood into the Most Holy compartment of the tabernacle or temple, there presenting it before God, as if in his presence.—Exodus 25:22; Leviticus 16:2-19.
Jesus fulfilled what was foreshadowed by the Atonement Day, as Paul explained. First, he mentioned that the high priest in Israel entered the Most Holy once a year with blood offered “for himself and for the sins of ignorance of the people.” (Hebrews 9:6, 7)
: “When Christ came as a high priest . . . , he entered, no, not with the blood of goats and of young bulls, but with his own blood, once for all time into the holy place and obtained an everlasting deliverance for us. For if the blood of goats and of bulls . . . sanctifies to the extent of cleanness of the flesh, how much more will the blood of the Christ, who through an everlasting spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works that we may render sacred service to the living God?” (9:11-14)
This divine truth allows us to grasp the wondrous scope of what the Bible says about blood—why God views it as he does, what our view of it should be, and why we ought to respect the restrictions God set about the use of blood.
These make plain that each Christian should put faith “in his [Jesus’] blood.” (Romans 3:25) Our gaining forgiveness and having peace with God is possible only “through the blood he [Jesus] shed.” (Colossians 1:20)
Clearly, blood has a special meaning in God’s eyes. It should in ours too. The Creator, who is concerned about life, has a right to restrict what humans do with blood. In his great concern even about our life, he determined to reserve blood for use in one highly important way, the only way that makes everlasting life possible. That way involved Jesus’ precious blood.
: “To him that loves us and that loosed us from our sins by means of his own blood—and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.”—Revelation 1:5, 6.
Quote Do you eat KOSHER david? Is there any need to even ask? Look at my posts. Look at any single post in this thread.
Quote Also an alternative that can apply in most planned surgeries, is to have the individual donate a portion of his/her own blood to be retransfused during surgery, just in case.
There are many many alternatives Cubes. And they are far safer. It mostly depends on the skill of the physician, and his knowledge. The amount of blood lost in operations varies greatly from one surgeon to the next.Quote (david @ June 14 2006,00:19) Quote Do you eat KOSHER david? Is there any need to even ask? Look at my posts. Look at any single post in this thread.
Hi david,
Do you buy it specially prepared?Quote (Cubes @ June 14 2006,00:17) Also an alternative that can apply in most planned surgeries, is to have the individual donate a portion of his/her own blood to be retransfused during surgery, just in case. I have also prayed that God puts me in no position (temptation) more than I can bear and so far so good, folks. His grace extends to my family too.
Hi,
I was told I could or should have had a transfusion last year when I was severely anaemic but chose not to, not for any spiritual reasons to rather because of hygiene and all the hepatitis viruses that are about.
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