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Well then translate it from French for me, Pierre.
What EXACT words in that book say “No one can be saved UNLESS they belong to our organization.”
Are there words to that effect? If so, what EXACTLY are the words they wrote?
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 07 2011,21:02) Well then translate it from French for me, Pierre. What EXACT words in that book say “No one can be saved UNLESS they belong to our organization.”
Are there words to that effect? If so, what EXACTLY are the words they wrote?
peace,
mike
Mikeok .I will try.but this first quotation comes out the book called SALVATION (SALUT) on page 224 and are the 11 last lines before a new paragraph is started;
it explain 1 Peter 2;13
it says that this verse is exclusivly refers to Gods people,the ones who serve God and are members of his organization,
and so it is that all faithful disciples have to obey to the rules
given by the apostles and scriptures,then it refers to go to the Wachtower of 1929 page 120 to 125 and 131 to 136 dealing with ;supreme authority,
also on page 240, it says that anyone that is not part of the 144000 can not be baptized in Christ dead.
on page 277,PROPHETIC IMAGE
it says that the Ark is an image of Gods organization directed by Christ…..
on page 235 :BAPTISM;
it says ;any one that wants to do Gods will has to be baptized
and by doing so those persons will be protected and instructed by God.well this are the few I pick up ,I have to read this book again only for you
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 07 2011,13:24) Wow Jack! I see a whole lot of HATE from you. And a whole lot of press from NON- JW's. But still no OFFICIAL statement from THEM that they are the only ones to be saved.
Pick ANY group of people in the world, and you'll find millions of nay-sayers.
Is anyone ever going to post a scripture that the NWT actually translated in a “BLATANTLY CORRUPTED” manner?
mike
Mike,I like JW's. The first source was Wikipedia. Come on! Don't forget my personal experience too. They say that those who do not agree with them are “apostate” and of the “evil slave class.”
Don't bury your head in the sand. Would you publicize your stink “officially?”
Jack
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 07 2011,13:24) Wow Jack! I see a whole lot of HATE from you.
Don't confuse criticism with hate.Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 06 2011,23:37) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 07 2011,21:02) Well then translate it from French for me, Pierre. What EXACT words in that book say “No one can be saved UNLESS they belong to our organization.”
Are there words to that effect? If so, what EXACTLY are the words they wrote?
peace,
mike
Mikeok .I will try.but this first quotation comes out the book called SALVATION (SALUT) on page 224 and are the 11 last lines before a new paragraph is started;
it explain 1 Peter 2;13
it says that this verse is exclusivly refers to Gods people,the ones who serve God and are members of his organization,
and so it is that all faithful disciples have to obey to the rules
given by the apostles and scriptures,then it refers to go to the Wachtower of 1929 page 120 to 125 and 131 to 136 dealing with ;supreme authority,
also on page 240, it says that anyone that is not part of the 144000 can not be baptized in Christ dead.
on page 277,PROPHETIC IMAGE
it says that the Ark is an image of Gods organization directed by Christ…..
on page 235 :BAPTISM;
it says ;any one that wants to do Gods will has to be baptized
and by doing so those persons will be protected and instructed by God.well this are the few I pick up ,I have to read this book again only for you
Well, thanks for reading again just for me!However, I agree with them, don't you? Don't you consider yourself a part of “God's Organization”? I am, and I'm not a JW.
I didn't read anything that said “Only JWs will gain salvation”, did you?
peace,
mikeQuote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Oct. 07 2011,02:27) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 07 2011,13:24) Wow Jack! I see a whole lot of HATE from you. And a whole lot of press from NON- JW's. But still no OFFICIAL statement from THEM that they are the only ones to be saved.
Pick ANY group of people in the world, and you'll find millions of nay-sayers.
Is anyone ever going to post a scripture that the NWT actually translated in a “BLATANTLY CORRUPTED” manner?
mike
Mike,I like JW's. The first source was Wikipedia. Come on! Don't forget my personal experience too. They say that those who do not agree with them are “apostate” and of the “evil slave class.”
Don't bury your head in the sand. Would you publicize your stink “officially?”
Jack
Jack,If THEY'VE never “officially” said it, then maybe it is YOUR stink, and not theirs.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 07 2011,14:43) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 07 2011,13:24) Wow Jack! I see a whole lot of HATE from you.
Don't confuse criticism with hate.
Fair enough, Paul.Hey guys,
Until an official statement is found, let's get this thread back on topic.
I'm wanting to see a scripture that the NWT “BLATANTLY CORRUPTED”.
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 08 2011,19:04) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 06 2011,23:37) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 07 2011,21:02) Well then translate it from French for me, Pierre. What EXACT words in that book say “No one can be saved UNLESS they belong to our organization.”
Are there words to that effect? If so, what EXACTLY are the words they wrote?
peace,
mike
Mikeok .I will try.but this first quotation comes out the book called SALVATION (SALUT) on page 224 and are the 11 last lines before a new paragraph is started;
it explain 1 Peter 2;13
it says that this verse is exclusivly refers to Gods people,the ones who serve God and are members of his organization,
and so it is that all faithful disciples have to obey to the rules
given by the apostles and scriptures,then it refers to go to the Wachtower of 1929 page 120 to 125 and 131 to 136 dealing with ;supreme authority,
also on page 240, it says that anyone that is not part of the 144000 can not be baptized in Christ dead.
on page 277,PROPHETIC IMAGE
it says that the Ark is an image of Gods organization directed by Christ…..
on page 235 :BAPTISM;
it says ;any one that wants to do Gods will has to be baptized
and by doing so those persons will be protected and instructed by God.well this are the few I pick up ,I have to read this book again only for you
Well, thanks for reading again just for me!However, I agree with them, don't you? Don't you consider yourself a part of “God's Organization”? I am, and I'm not a JW.
I didn't read anything that said “Only JWs will gain salvation”, did you?
peace,
mike
MikeMore in the book called SALVATION”
on page 23;applying Ex 9;16 to them as the reason;this is the Jehovah Witness obeying to Godly call,going trough the country's
by exalting Gods name ,as a warning before the stormon page 22 it says that the JW are send specially to Christendom
to let them know to leave this organization because it is from Satan
YOU UNDERSTAND THAT IT IMPLY THAT THEY ARE NOT PART OF Christendom,AND THAT THEY STAND ALONE TO DO THAT .
on page 20 ; it says ;those who love God and Christ apply the commandment in Mat 24;14;a army of Christians composed of men and women know under the name of Jehovah Witness are going trough the land preaching the good news of the kingdom
and this preaching as to go on until the wrath of God comes Mat 24;21IS THERE ROOM FOR ANYONE ELSE
on page 272; it talks about the resurrection of all the prince of of old ;Noah,Moses,Abel,Daniel ,Samuel,….ect
so they have built in 1929 a little resort to receive them,it was called BETH-SARIM
this property that belong to the” Watchtower bible and tract society” is to be used by the president of the society and his collaborators until it is given into the hands of the Princes ,this was built to the glory of Gods name ,it is an true manifestation of faith to wait for the accomplished of God will.
some incredulous men have given way to there sarcasms remarks ,but the built still stand as a witness to Gods name ,
and when the princes will appear and will live there ,the mockers will stand confused,and the ones who build BETH-SARIM WILL BE JUSTIFIED.
everyone knows by now that the princes never were resurrected and so the ones that build the house were never justified,and Gods name was not glorified ,
this is one of those many flaws in the JW organization,1975 is another ,and …….many……
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 07 2011,19:51)
YOU UNDERSTAND THAT IT IMPLY THAT THEY ARE NOT PART OF Christendom,AND THAT THEY STAND ALONE TO DO THAT .
“Christendom” includes the churches that support a Trinity God and the churches that support sending their members off to kill other human beings in wars. The ones that have billions of dollars in their coffers, and drink from solid gold cups while millions starve to death each year. The ones that worship Mary as the Mother of God and pray to the Saints.I am no part of it either.
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 07 2011,19:51)
this is one of those many flaws in the JW organization,1975 is another ,and …….many……
But I have never said the JWs don't make mistakes like all men do. What you are supposed to be doing is showing OFFICIAL support from the JWs that they think people in their organization are the ONLY ones who will gain salvation.It seems odd to me that with all the people here who think they DO make this claim, not one of you can provide OFFICIAL proof of it.
Pierre, let it go. If you cannot show an OFFICIAL statement from the JWs claiming what you said they claimed, then just let it go.
This is from the Official JW Website:
Do you believe that you are the only ones who will be saved?
No. Many millions who have lived in centuries past and who were not Jehovah’s Witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life. Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before God’s time of judgment, and they will gain salvation. Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one another. Humans look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully. God has committed judgment into Jesus’ hands, not ours.—Matthew 7:1-5; John 5:22, 27.
Does that end this discussion?
Mike
Do you believe that you are the only ones who will be saved?
No. Many millions who have lived in centuries past and who were not Jehovah’s Witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life. Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before God’s time of judgment, and they will gain salvation and they do not have to become JW ? . Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one anotherproviding that we are in the same congregation right ? . Humans look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully. God has committed judgment into Jesus’ hands, not ours.—Matthew 7:1-5; John 5:22, 27.
the bold comments I have ask questions could you answer them
from the Official JW Website:Does that end this discussion?we see
Pierre
The JWs DIRECT answer of “NO” ends the discussion as far as I'm concerned.
Now, let's get this thread back on track everybody. I'm anxious to see the scripture that the NWT “BLATANTLY CORRUPTED”.
Mike
Question: “Is the New World Translation a valid version of the Bible?”
Answer: The New World Translation (NWT) is defined by the Jehovah's Witnesses’ parent organization (the Watchtower Society) as “a translation of the Holy Scriptures made directly from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek into modern-day English by a committee of anointed witnesses of Jehovah.” The NWT is the anonymous work of the “New World Bible Translation Committee.” Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that the anonymity is in place so that the credit for the work will go to God. Of course, this has the added benefit of keeping the translators from any accountability for their errors and prevents real scholars from checking their academic credentials.
The New World Translation is unique in one thing – it is the first intentional, systematic effort at producing a complete version of the Bible that is edited and revised for the specific purpose of agreeing with a group's doctrine. The Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Watchtower Society realized that their beliefs contradicted Scripture. So, rather than conforming their beliefs to Scripture, they altered Scripture to agree with their beliefs. The “New World Bible Translation Committee” went through the Bible and changed any Scripture that did not agree with Jehovah’s Witness theology. This is clearly demonstrated by the fact that, as new editions of the New World Translation were published, additional changes were made to the biblical text. As biblical Christians continued to point out Scriptures that clearly argue for the deity of Christ (for example), the Watchtower Society would publish new editions of the New World Translation with those Scriptures changed. Here are some of the more prominent examples of intentional revisions:
The New World Translation renders the Greek term word staurós (“cross”) as “torture stake” because Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe that Jesus was crucified on a cross. The New World Translation does not translate the Greek words sheol, hades, gehenna, and tartarus as “hell” because Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in hell. The NWT gives the translation “presence” instead of “coming” for the Greek word parousia because Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Christ has already returned in the early 1900s. In Colossians 1:16, the NWT inserts the word “other” despite its being completely absent from the original Greek text. It does this to give the view that “all other things” were created by Christ, instead of what the text says, “all things were created by Christ.” This is to go along with their belief that Christ is a created being, which they believe because they deny the Trinity.
The most well-known of all the New World Translation perversions is John 1:1. The original Greek text reads, “the Word was God.” The NWT renders it as “the word was a god.” This is not a matter of correct translation, but of reading one's preconceived theology into the text, rather than allowing the text to speak for itself. There is no indefinite article in Greek (in English, “a” or “an”), so any use of an indefinite article in English must be added by the translator. This is grammatically acceptable, so long as it does not change the meaning of the text.
There is a good reason why theos has no definite article in John 1:1 and why the New World Translation rendering is in error. There are three general rules we need to understand to see why.
1. In Greek, word order does not determine word usage like it does in English. In English, a sentence is structured according to word order: Subject – Verb – Object. Thus, “Harry called the dog” is not equivalent to “the dog called Harry.” But in Greek, a word's function is determined by the case ending found attached to the word's root. There are two case endings for the root theo: one is -s (theos), the other is -n (theon). The -s ending normally identifies a noun as being the subject of a sentence, while the -n ending normally identifies a noun as the direct object.
2. When a noun functions as a predicate nominative (in English, a noun that follows a being verb such as “is”), its case ending must match the noun's case that it renames, so that the reader will know which noun it is defining. Therefore, theo must take the -s ending because it is renaming logos. Therefore, John 1:1 transliterates to “kai theos en ho logos.” Is theos the subject, or is logos? Both have the -s ending. The answer is found in the next rule.
3. In cases where two nouns appear, and both take the same case ending, the author will often add the definite article to the word that is the subject in order to avoid confusion. John put the definite article on logos (“the Word”) instead of on theos. So, logos is the subject, and theos is the predicate nominative. In English, this results in John 1:1 being read as “and the Word was God” (instead of “and God was the word”).
The most revealing evidence of the Watchtower's bias is their inconsistent translation technique. Throughout the Gospel of John, the Greek word theon occurs without a definite article. The New World Translation renders none of these as “a god.” Just three verses after John 1:1, the New World Translation translates another case of theos without the indefinite article as “God.” Even more inconsistent, in John 1:18, the NWT translates the same term as both “God” and “god” in the very same sentence.
The Watchtower, therefore, has no hard textual grounds for their translation—only their own theological bias. While New World Translation defenders might succeed in showing that John 1:1 can be translated as they have done, they cannot show that it is the proper translation. Nor can they explain the fact that that the NWT does not translate the same Greek phrases elsewhere in the Gospel of John the same way. It is only the pre-conceived heretical rejection of the deity of Christ that forces the Watchtower Society to inconsistently translate the Greek text, thus allowing their error to gain some semblance of legitimacy in the minds of those ignorant of the facts.
It is only the Watchtower's pre-conceived heretical beliefs that are behind the dishonest and inconsistent translation that is the New World Translation. The New World Translation is most definitely not a valid version of God’s Word. There are minor differences among all the major English translations of the Bible. No English translation is perfect. However, while other Bible translators make minor mistakes in the rendering of the Hebrew and Greek text into English, the NWT intentionally changes the rendering of the text to conform to Jehovah’s Witness theology. The New World Translation is a perversion, not a version, of the Bible.
Recommended Resource: Reasoning from the Scriptures with the Jehovah's Witnesses, Updated and Expanded by Ron Rhodes.
We highly recommend Witnesses for Jesus for more information.
Related Topics:
Who are the Jehovah's Witnesses and what do they believe?
Why do Jehovah's Witnesses refuse blood transfusions?
What is the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society?
Is Jesus Michael the Archangel?
What is the best way to evangelize someone who is in a cult or false religion?
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Is the New World Translation a valid version of the Bible?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 09 2011,04:56) This is from the Official JW Website: Do you believe that you are the only ones who will be saved?
No. Many millions who have lived in centuries past and who were not Jehovah’s Witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life. Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before God’s time of judgment, and they will gain salvation. Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one another. Humans look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully. God has committed judgment into Jesus’ hands, not ours.—Matthew 7:1-5; John 5:22, 27.
Does that end this discussion?
Hi Mike,The first sentence accounts for those before there was a JW organization,
and the second sentence accounts for those who are yet to join their organization.
Neither sentence accounts for those who are currently non-members and don't plan on joining.That is why I asked David this specific PRESENT TENSE QUESTION (which he refused to confirm or deny)…
“Does your organization teach that those who are not members of your organization are not Christians?”God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 09 2011,21:53) Pierre, Do you know of a particular SCRIPTURE that the NWT “BLATANTLY CORRUPTED” or not?
Mikeno
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 08 2011,22:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 09 2011,04:56) This is from the Official JW Website: Do you believe that you are the only ones who will be saved?
No. Many millions who have lived in centuries past and who were not Jehovah’s Witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life. Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before God’s time of judgment, and they will gain salvation. Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one another. Humans look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully. God has committed judgment into Jesus’ hands, not ours.—Matthew 7:1-5; John 5:22, 27.
Does that end this discussion?
Hi Mike,The first sentence accounts for those before there was a JW organization,
and the second sentence accounts for those who are yet to join their organization.
And the remaining sentences make it CRYSTAL CLEAR that they don't consider themselves judges of anyone. The OFFICIAL JW answer is “NO”, Ed – despite what you or Pierre might have heard from some individual members. Let it go now.Pierre and I have no knowledge of any scripture the NWT “BLATANTLY CORRUPTED” Ed. Do you?
If so, please post it so we can look into it. If not, then Jack's thread will be used by me as a proof anytime someone brings up the NWT's “flawed translation”.
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 09 2011,04:56) This is from the Official JW Website: Do you believe that you are the only ones who will be saved?
No. Many millions who have lived in centuries past and who were not Jehovah’s Witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life. Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before God’s time of judgment, and they will gain salvation. Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one another. Humans look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully. God has committed judgment into Jesus’ hands, not ours.—Matthew 7:1-5; John 5:22, 27.
Does that end this discussion?
I didn't know you were discussing this here. It's funny. I could end this discussion in 10 seconds with about 5 or 6 quotes that are very direct, but, because of Ed, I choose not to.
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