Blatant corruption in the NWT

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 03 2011,14:34)

Mike Quote Pierre, they believe they are speaking God's spiritual truth on all matters scriptural.  Just like all Christians believe when they talk to non-Christians.  When you, as a Christian, say that only those who accept Christ will gain salvation, what does the non-Christian you're speaking to think?  Does he feel left out, as if you think you have an exclusive club? you are twisting what I was saying ;what is a non Christian ? to the JW it is any one that is not WJ; any way that the way it was in the 50s and 60s they may have modernized sins then, and I know what they believe but so are many other denominations I know. but you tell me ;what are the reason of an ORGANIZATION in this world when your faith is in GOD and his SON who said that he would be with the faithful believers always (this goes for any organization in religion) is now acceptable by you to be part of both world ,Satan and God ?? Quote So, what is it with you?  If they are doing everything right according to the scriptures, and then say that you must also do the things they're doing to gain salvation, are they wrong?  How so? how do you know the do everything right it seems to me you do not know anything about them,you have showed me you haven read any of there books , Quote Don't you do the same thing with the Trinitarians?  Don't we both tell them that they are in error by worshipping more than one God against all scriptural teaching?  Don't we both, in our heart of hearts, have a feeling that they will be the ones to whom Jesus says, “Away from me evildoers, I never knew you”?  Does that make you and me and Irene and t8 an “exclusive club” that is telling others they won't get to heaven? NO it is not the same we do not have built an empire in this world to benefit of all the world run offs/they are not they only ones ,but they are part of them.God is the name used but all are proselytize of the organization club,freedom in Christ all is has the WTTS as determined, Quote Because I have NEVER heard of an OFFICIAL STATEMENT from the JWs where they claim to be the ONLY ones to gain salvation. If you will not investigate what I have given you, you will never see it because even I send you a copy of there book you could tell me that it is falsified ,and so always refusing to see ,   Quote It has been about people making claims against the JWs without being able to show any proof OF those claims. If you want you can google WJ contradictions and you can find there books ,quotes and what not ,IF YOU WANT  ,but this is something you have to do ,just as you study scriptures and Hebrew,and Greek,and history. Mike my love in Christ for you has not moved an hair Pierre

Hi Pierre,

I have asked David that very question.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 02 2011,05:23)

Okay Ed,  CONFIRM FOR ME THAT IT IS THE JW OFFICIAL STANCE THAT ONLY JWs WILL GAIN EVERLASTING LIFE. mike

Hi Mike,

Is this what you are asking for?…
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Changed to…
John 17:3 (N.W.T.) This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you,
the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.

Since they believe they are the ones giving you the true knowledge of Jehovah,
would that not imply that eternal life comes from (according to the N.W.T.) the watchtower society?
Does eternal life come from knowing the father or from someone (like them for example) telling you about the father?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

edj

Quote

Hi Mike, Is this what you are asking for?… John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Changed to… John 17:3 (N.W.T.) This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.

as far I can see it means the same thing ,do not go and look for head pins Ed just remember when you point a finger there is always three fingers pointing at you,

[Ed J]

Hi PR,

So knowing JEHOVAH and taking in knowledge of Him are the same thing to you?
You take in knowledge of George Washington, does that mean you know George Washington?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 03 2011,04:35)

And are EITHER OF YOU TWO able to actually produce JW literature in which they claim to be the ONLY way to salvation?

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 03 2011,15:14)

Mike “And while now the witness yet includes the invitation to come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation.”—The Watchtower, November 15, 1981, p. 21

Hi Pierre,

If what Pierre posted is accurate, would that not explain the reason for the change
that I pointed out in the 1984 N.W.T. of John 17:3? (second post, this page)
And also qualify for Mike Boll's call for the evidence such teaching?

Matt.18:16: If he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more,
that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established

Witness number 1: The watchtower society's publication.
Witness number 2: The change in the JW's bible, the N.W.T.
Witness number 3: Will be David's future refusal to deny this.

As he previously refused to deny…

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 01 2011,12:50)

(This question that I asked David) “Is it not true that your organization teaches that non-members are non-Christians?” This is what the JW's “DO” teach, and it is confirmed by three others besides me (listed in a prior post).

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 04 2011,11:41)

Hi PR, So knowing JEHOVAH and taking in knowledge of Him are the same thing to you? You take in knowledge of George Washington, does that mean you know George Washington? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

whats wrong with you ?? were is the difference tell me

Jn 17:25 “Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me.
Jn 17:26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”

Mt 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

within those scriptures show me were it is wrong ?

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 04 2011,07:17)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 04 2011,11:41) Hi PR, So knowing JEHOVAH and taking in knowledge of Him are the same thing to you? You take in knowledge of George Washington, does that mean you know George Washington? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj whats wrong with you ?? were is the difference tell me Jn 17:25 “Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. Jn 17:26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.” Mt 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” within those scriptures show me were it is wrong ?

Hi Pierre,

Did you, in fact, not take in knowledge of George Washington?
Do you “KNOW” George Washington, YES OR NO?
As stated, this question differentiates the two!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

edj

Quote

Hi Pierre, Did you, in fact, not take in knowledge of George Washington? Do you “KNOW” George Washington, YES OR NO? As stated, this question differentiates the two! God bless Ed J

yes I took knowledge of him in school and later and in google ,and history books ect

but how can I know a dead man ??

BUT GOD IS NOT DEAD HE NEVER WAS AND NEVER WILL BE

SO i CAN LEARN ABOUT HIM AND THEN COME TO KNOW HIM PERSONALLY ,

but first I have to take acknowledgement of him to know him and so can learn to know him in a personal way.

[Ed J]

Hi Pierre,

I'm glad you now realize there is in fact a difference.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 02 2011,22:14)

Mike this is a start ;GOSPEL: The Watchtower Society admits that their “gospel” is not the same gospel that has historically been preached by Christendom. “…compare…the gospel of the Kingdom done by the religious systems of Christendom during all the centuries with that done by Jehovah’s Witnesses….They are not one and the same kind.” —The Watchtower, May 1, 1981, p. 17 The Society’s “gospel” is a gospel of faith + works. They teach that there are 4 requirements for salvation: “…taking in knowledge….of God and of Jesus Christ.” “…obey God’s laws, yes, to conform one’s life to the moral requirements set out in the Bible.” “…be associated with God’s channel, his organization….we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it.” “…connected [to God’s organization] with loyalty.”—The Watchtower, February 15, 1983, p. 12 “And while now the witness yet includes the invitation to come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation.”—The Watchtower, November 15, 1981, p. 21 “It is for the reward of eternal life that every last person on earth should now be working. Are you?” —The Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1972, p. 492 “When we accept this invitation, we must be prepared to do so ‘continually,’ not because there is some special merit in self-denial, but because one moment’s indiscretion, one lapse in good judgment, may undo all that has been built up, even jeopardizing our eternal welfare. Spiritual progress is usually made at a rather slow pace, but how quickly it can be nullified if we are not on guard constantly!”—The Watchtower, August 1, 1992, p. 17

Pierre,

I agree with EVERYTHING in this post – except for the misleading statement at the beginning.  It is worded to sound like the JWs made up their OWN gospel, but that is not what they're saying.  This is evident to me without even reading the May 1, 1981 article you quoted.  Can't you see the “…………..”?  That's where the person falsely accusing the JWs has taken out part of their words to make it SEEM like they're saying something they're not.

It's funny that people like you and Ed will immediately back whoever butchered the JW statement as if he is automatically right and a Saint or something.  

I am willing to bet money that the article REALLY says something like:  Compare THE WAY THE COMMANDMENTS JESUS GAVE ABOUT FURTHERING the gospel of the Kingdom are done by Christendom against the way WE follow those commandments.  They are not the same.  But unfortunately, the writer of this post of yours has removed words from the JW article in a attempt to sway people like you and Ed to help promote anti-JW gossip.

As far as the rest of the articles you quoted, can you show me the fault in them?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 03 2011,09:16)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 03 2011,04:35) Ed, (1)You keep telling me the question you ASKED David, as if you asking the question is the equivalent of him answering “YES!” to it.   WHAT did David ANSWER to your question?  Did he answer “YES” or “NO”? (2)And are EITHER OF YOU TWO able to actually produce JW literature in which they claim to be the ONLY way to salvation? (3)If not, then Pierre is right that YOU TWO should let this subject drop.  It is not for ME to let it drop, since it is TO ME that YOU TWO made the claim in the first place. (4)I suggest that if YOU TWO can produce no solid evidence to support your claim, then YOU TWO should not only let it drop for now, but NEVER make your UNFOUNDED claim to anyone again. (5)Of course, like I said before, if you ARE able to eventually show solid support to what you've claimed, I will stand both corrected and with you on this matter.) peace, mike Hi Mike, 1) He didn't answer “NO”!   2) That is not what we are discussing. 3) We are only talking about this because you asked. 4) You choose not to look at the evidence; have you forgotten already? 5) All you have to do is examine the evidence yourself as both me and Pierre pointed out. God bless Ed J

1. Well if he didn't say “YES”, then why do you keep bringing up the fact that you asked him as if it's proof of something?

2. If you can't produce actual EVIDENCE of your claims, then you shouldn't be claiming them in the first place.

3. Actually Ed, you have been talking about it for a lot of pages. It wasn't until Pierre agreed with you on page nine that I thought there was maybe something to this claim. And since then, all I've been doing is asking either one of you to show proof………….something neither of you has been able to do as of yet.

4. You haven't SHOWN any evidence for me to look at.

5. WHAT evidence? PASTE IT FOR ME RIGHT HERE IN THIS THREAD.

If you cannot, then you are merely spreading gossip about fellow children of God.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 03 2011,09:29)

Hi Mike, I will wait until another N.W.T verse comes up, until then I will pause.

Fair enough Ed. But DURING the pause, since you haven't been able to produce even ONE scripture the NWT “BLATANTLY CORRUPTED”, I will suggest you keep any comments about “NWT Corruption” to yourself.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 03 2011,09:33)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 03 2011,14:34) Mike what is a non Christian ? to the JW it is any one that is not WJ; Hi Pierre, I have asked David that very question. God bless Ed J

I'M not a JW, but my mom, who is, considers ME a Christian.  Someone has been feeding you guys faulty information it seems.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 03 2011,09:57)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 02 2011,05:23) Okay Ed,  CONFIRM FOR ME THAT IT IS THE JW OFFICIAL STANCE THAT ONLY JWs WILL GAIN EVERLASTING LIFE. mike Hi Mike, Is this what you are asking for?… John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Changed to… John 17:3 (N.W.T.) This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. God bless Ed J

Yes Ed,

This IS what I'm asking for……………IF the NWT got it wrong.  

This is the very first definition of the word used in John 17:3, according to NETNotes:
ginosko
1) to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of

Now, considering THAT is the definition of the Greek word used, tell me again how the NWT “BLATANTLY CORRUPTED” the scripture?  

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 03 2011,12:50)

Witness number 1: The watchtower society's publication. Witness number 2: The change in the JW's bible, the N.W.T. Witness number 3: Will be David's future refusal to deny this.

1. What publication? I have yet to see one where the JWs claimed to be the ONLY ones to gain salvation.

2. What change? Did they render 17:3 a different way in the past? If so, has any other translation ever done that?

3. So you are claiming something that you believe David will someday say as a fact right now?

Ed, either show an OFFICIAL JW statement where THEY THEMSELVES (not someone writing ABOUT them) claim what you say they claim. If you cannot, then please drop it.

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 04 2011,17:38)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 02 2011,22:14) Mike this is a start ;GOSPEL: The Watchtower Society admits that their “gospel” is not the same gospel that has historically been preached by Christendom. “…compare…the gospel of the Kingdom done by the religious systems of Christendom during all the centuries with that done by Jehovah’s Witnesses….They are not one and the same kind.” —The Watchtower, May 1, 1981, p. 17 The Society’s “gospel” is a gospel of faith + works. They teach that there are 4 requirements for salvation: “…taking in knowledge….of God and of Jesus Christ.” “…obey God’s laws, yes, to conform one’s life to the moral requirements set out in the Bible.” “…be associated with God’s channel, his ….we must identify that and serve God as part of it.” “…connected [to God’s organization] with loyalty.”—The Watchtower, February 15, 1983, p. 12 “And while now the witness yet includes the invitation to come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation.”—The Watchtower, November 15, 1981, p. 21 “It is for the reward of eternal life that every last person on earth should now be working. Are you?” —The Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1972, p. 492 “When we accept this invitation, we must be prepared to do so ‘continually,’ not because there is some special merit in self-denial, but because one moment’s indiscretion, one lapse in good judgment, may undo all that has been built up, even jeopardizing our eternal welfare. Spiritual progress is usually made at a rather slow pace, but how quickly it can be nullified if we are not on guard constantly!”—The Watchtower, August 1, 1992, p. 17 Pierre, I agree with EVERYTHING in this post – except for the misleading statement at the beginning.  It is worded to sound the the JWs made up their OWN gospel, but that is not what they're saying.  This is evident to me without even reading the May 1, 1981 article you quoted.  Can't you see the “…………..”?  That's where the person falsely accusing the JWs has taken out part of their words to make it SEEM like they're saying something they're not. It's funny that people like you and Ed will immediately back whoever butchered the JW statement as if he is automatically right and a Saint or something.   I am willing to bet money that  the article REALLY says something like:  Compare THE WAY THE COMMANDMENTS JESUS GAVE ABOUT FURTHERING the gospel of the Kingdom are done by Christendom against the way WE follow those commandments.  They are not the same.  But unfortunately, the writer of this post of yours has removed words from theJW article in a attempt to sway people like you and Ed to help promote anti-JW gossip. As far as the rest of the articles you quoted, can you show me the fault in them?

Mike

you see now that what I had foreseen that you could do you just did in your post,but you run from 1975,end time and play ignoring it why??

now ones more time, I stand to what I have said do you think I was def and mute while I was associated with them the JW,?

do you think I have something to gain ?? NO,but what I know to be true will remain true ,I know that the have done many changes sins 1884 ,and many stupid things have been printed what is now discarded ,

Like I told you to me it does not matter I know who they are just as I know who are the Church of God ,and Catholic,and Mennonites,and many others ,and I can tell you they are many similitude when you consider the organization ,what is a entity

what today I heard that it is separated  but I do not know how ,I am not interested to know to me when you tell lies and tell people they are truth does not run ,If we let truth of God to be so liquid then why have it ?

in my book you are preaching the true word of God or none ,
I CAN NOT TAKE LESS THAN THE TRUE WORDS OF MY GOD,

so my search  is to be more with truth not less.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 03 2011,18:51)

in my book you are preaching the true word of God or none , I CAN NOT TAKE LESS THAN THE TRUE WORDS OF MY GOD, so my search is to be more with truth not less.

I feel the same. So let's keep our focus on defending the true words of God then, and leave the judgment of God's other children to the one He entrusted with that job.

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 04 2011,19:57)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 03 2011,18:51) in my book you are preaching the true word of God or none , I CAN NOT TAKE LESS THAN THE TRUE WORDS OF MY GOD, so my search  is to be more with truth not less. I feel the same.  So let's keep our focus on defending the true words of God then, and leave the judgment of God's other children to the one He entrusted with that job.

agree

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 04 2011,10:53)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 03 2011,09:16) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 03 2011,04:35) Ed, (1)You keep telling me the question you ASKED David, as if you asking the question is the equivalent of him answering “YES!” to it.   WHAT did David ANSWER to your question?  Did he answer “YES” or “NO”? (2)And are EITHER OF YOU TWO able to actually produce JW literature in which they claim to be the ONLY way to salvation? (3)If not, then Pierre is right that YOU TWO should let this subject drop.  It is not for ME to let it drop, since it is TO ME that YOU TWO made the claim in the first place. (4)I suggest that if YOU TWO can produce no solid evidence to support your claim, then YOU TWO should not only let it drop for now, but NEVER make your UNFOUNDED claim to anyone again. (5)Of course, like I said before, if you ARE able to eventually show solid support to what you've claimed, I will stand both corrected and with you on this matter.) peace, mike Hi Mike, 1) He didn't answer “NO”!   2) That is not what we are discussing. 3) We are only talking about this because you asked. 4) You choose not to look at the evidence; have you forgotten already? 5) All you have to do is examine the evidence yourself as both me and Pierre pointed out. God bless Ed J 1.  Well if he didn't say “YES”, then why do you keep bringing up the fact that you asked him as if it's proof of something?   2.  If you can't produce actual EVIDENCE of your claims, then you shouldn't be claiming them in the first place. 3.  Actually Ed, you have been talking about it for a lot of pages.  It wasn't until Pierre agreed with you on page nine that I thought there was maybe something to this claim.  And since then, all I've been doing is asking either one of you to show proof………….something neither of you has been able to do as of yet. 4.  You haven't SHOWN any evidence for me to look at.   5.  WHAT evidence?    PASTE IT FOR ME RIGHT HERE IN THIS THREAD. If you cannot, then you are merely spreading gossip about fellow children of God.

Hi Mike,

1) He was avoiding the question like the plague, because…
  A) he knows it's true.
  B) He can't lie by saying “it is not true”.
  C) And he also cannot admit it's true, because it casts a bad light on their doctrines.
 
I asked him that question at least three different ways at least 5 times.
His refusal to deny it was proof that it was true. You also have Pierre
as a witness along with the testimony of two other members here.

2) Pierre did.

3) You mean I brought to light this truth. (Eph.5:13)

4) Ha ha ha.

5) Pages 65 through 77 of the JW thread.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 04 2011,11:00)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 03 2011,09:33) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 03 2011,14:34) Mike what is a non Christian ? to the JW it is any one that is not WJ; Hi Pierre, I have asked David that very question. God bless Ed J I'M not a JW, but my mom, who is, considers ME a Christian.  Someone has been feeding you guys faulty information it seems.

Hi Mike,

I'm sure there are some JW's that would take a blood transfusion too.
We are not discussing here what certain members believe,
but what the watchtower society teaches as truth.
The JW's version N.W.T. reflects their beliefs.
I gave you two corresponding points.

1. Respective. (meaning: differentiating two groups; JW's and all others)
2. Everlasting life is taking in knowledge of him. (only by faithful descrete slaves)
These verse alterations help to illustrate the picture of what is taught to insiders only.

Non JW members (according to them) are not Christians.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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