Blatant corruption in the NWT

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 26 2011,11:42)

Ed,

I'm sorry that you're paranoid and think the NWT is saying “ONLY JW's are in the congregation” in that verse. They are not, so you are wrong.

Next scripture, please?

Hi Mike,

Starting on page 65 (third post) and extending to page 77, I asked David (Our resident JW) this question:
“Is it not true that your organization teaches that non-members are non-Christians?”
Hopefully YOU will read carefully our full discourse (on Pages 65-77)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

October 1, 2011 at 1:52 am#332731

Blocked

Nah………….that's a lot of reading, Ed. Just tell me the YES or NO answer he ended up giving. (Note: Most of my family are JW's, and I have NEVER heard them or any of their fellow JW's imply that ONLY the Witnesses have the truth, or that ONLY the Witnesses are Christians.)

Next scripture please?

October 1, 2011 at 2:16 am#332732

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 01 2011,19:52)

Next scripture please?

Mike

I believe they use to say that they have the truth at lest in Europe, in the 50 and 60 s they did so ,and that they were the only ones to be saved ,they took comparison with Noah ark

what would be today there organization,

Pierre

October 1, 2011 at 4:41 am#332725

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 01 2011,13:16)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 01 2011,19:52)

Next scripture please?

Mike

I believe they use to say that they have the truth at lest in Europe, in the 50 and 60 s they did so ,and that they were the only ones to be saved ,they took comparison with Noah ark

what would be today there organization,

Pierre

Hi Pierre,

Thank you for the corroboration.

Matt 18:16 But if he will not hear, then take with thee one or two more,
that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

October 1, 2011 at 1:47 pm#332726

Participant

edj

what is true is true

October 1, 2011 at 1:52 pm#332727

Participant

October 1, 2011 at 2:17 pm#332728

Blocked

Hi Ed and Pierre,

Can either of you show a quote where a JW put the belief that ONLY JWs are Christians, or that ONLY JWs will be saved in writing?

This is how rumors get started – and we know what scripture says about gossip and rumors, right?

So, I would think that if YOU guys are going to make the accusation that the JWs believe they are the ONLY ones who will be saved, there ought to be some literature somewhere that SUPPORTS your claim. If not, then it is only gossip and rumor.

peace,
mike

October 1, 2011 at 3:14 pm#332729

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 02 2011,08:17)

Hi Ed and Pierre,

Can either of you show a quote where a JW put the belief that ONLY JWs are Christians, or that ONLY JWs will be saved in writing?

This is how rumors get started – and we know what scripture says about gossip and rumors, right?

peace,
mike

Mike

you are right ,but if you want me to do that it will take some time because i have to find the books in witch it was thought,

and I do not have it on hand no more,it is in the blue book that allow the JW to study for six months

and I believe it is in the book called PARADISE lost and ……..

also look at what is implied when they say that all false religion will be destroyed,
it does not say who his the true one but it imply they are.

the only book i still have is the one called SALVATION ; subtitle the government of God
if you can get it and read it it is an old one.

like I say I know them well but I do not go to lay dirt on them

they do that to them self but what is true as to remain true

there also was their proclamation of the end in 1975 what never came to be,

October 1, 2011 at 3:45 pm#332724

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 02 2011,01:17)

Hi Ed and Pierre,

Can either of you show a quote where a JW put the belief that ONLY JWs are Christians, or that ONLY JWs will be saved in writing?

This is how rumors get started – and we know what scripture says about gossip and rumors, right?

peace,
mike

Hi Mike,

I told you where the evidence could be found,
but at first you seemed to be disinterested.
The link is on the first post of this page.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

October 1, 2011 at 4:35 pm#332722

Blocked

Ed,

I'm not asking for a link to where I have to sort through thousands of words just to find out that you are spreading gossip about children of God.

I'm asking for YOU to post a DIRECT QUOTE from the JW organization where they claim to be the ONLY Christians or the ONLY ones who will be saved.

mike

October 1, 2011 at 4:40 pm#332723

Blocked

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 01 2011,09:14)

Mike

you are right ,but if you want me to do that it will take some time because i have to find the books in witch it was thought,

Pierre,

Take your time. But until you find their own words in print claiming what you say they claim, it is not fair to them for you to claim it, IMO.

As far as false religion being destroyed, don't you agree that it will?

I can not respond on the 1975 prediction except to say that it was a big mistake made by men who, like all of us, are flawed.

October 1, 2011 at 4:48 pm#332719

Participant

Hi Mike,

I showed you the verse in the N.W.T where they changed the word “some” to
“Respective ones”. And I gave you the dialog where I asked David the question…
“Is it not true that your organization teaches that non-members are non-Christians?”
It is your place to prove truth to yourself, not mine. Jesus said: “seek, and ye shall find”

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

October 1, 2011 at 4:59 pm#332720

Blocked

Okay Ed,

“ALL PEOPLE NAMED 'ED J' ARE IDIOTS!”

There's MY claim – now it is up to YOU to search the databases of the world and prove it NOT to be true.

Do you see how sensless that would be, Ed? If I am the one who made the claim about someone else, then I am the one who needs to show a reason for making that claim.

Your posts reveal to me that you have no reason for making the claim you did about the Jehovah's Witnesses. That makes your claim pure, unfounded gossip in my book.

October 1, 2011 at 5:01 pm#332721

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 02 2011,10:40)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 01 2011,09:14)

Mike

you are right ,but if you want me to do that it will take some time because i have to find the books in witch it was thought,

Pierre,

Take your time. But until you find their own words in print claiming what you say they claim, it is not fair to them for you to claim it, IMO.

As far as false religion being destroyed, don't you agree that it will?

I can not respond on the 1975 prediction except to say that it was a big mistake made by men who, like all of us, are flawed.

mike

Contradictions & Flip-Flops

The WT Society claims to be Jehovah's and God's only channel of spiritual instruction for today. It stresses that the Bible is an “organizational book” and cannot be understood by individuals no matter how sincere they are. But how can we trust our eternal destiny to an organization that during its brief time in existence has accumulated such a woeful history of doctrinal contradictions and flip-flops? Consider the following examples of ever-changing Watchtower theology.

In 1975 the WTB&TS taught that the man who sows the seed in the parable of the mustard seed (Matthew 13) is Satan. Later that same year the WT Society taught that this sower was Jesus.

A similar incident occurred in 1978, when the WTB&TS identified the “Alpha and Omega” of Revelation 22:12-13 as Jehovah (that is, God the Father), and then five weeks later taught these verses referred to Jesus.

The Watchtower Society's failure to correctly interpret the Bible is most clearly seen in their doctrinal flip-flops. First they teach position A, then they change to position B, claiming God has given them “new light.” Later on, however, they revert back to their old teaching (position A) and in some cases change once again to position B. Here are some examples.

Resurrection of the Men of Sodom

1879 – They will be resurrected.
1952 – They will not be resurrected.
1965 – They will be resurrected.
1988 – They will not be resurrected.

The 'Lord' in Romans 10:12-16

1903 – 'Lord' refers to Jesus.
1940 – 'Lord' refers to Jehovah.
1978 – 'Lord' refers to Jesus.
1980 – 'Lord' refers to Jehovah.

'Higher Powers' of Romans 13:1

1916 – 'Higher powers' refers to governments.
1943 – 'Higher powers' refers to Jehovah God & Jesus Christ.
1964 – 'Higher powers' refers to governments.

Conclusion

In light of the preceding facts, do we dare trust the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society? It has falsely prophesied the end of the world at least 6 times and uses these predictions to intimidate its followers. This group has repeatedly changed their doctrines and contradicted previously held beliefs, all while claiming that it alone has the truth. Is this consistent with God's perfection and holiness?

We do not intend to ridicule or belittle individual Jehovah's Witnesses; they are generally sincere dedicated people. In one sense they are more like lost sheep than ravenous wolves, for they have been deceived by an organization with a history of false prophecies and doctrines. JWs truly believe that if they leave the Watchtower Society they will be destroyed at Armageddon. They need our love and compassion Our desire for them, as for everyone else, is that they come to a true knowledge of what the Bible teaches, and the understanding that Jesus Christ alone can guarantee salvation. Only through a personal relationship with him can we receive forgiveness and eternal life.

Joel B. Groat

*Documentation and further information available free or on loan from:
GOSPEL TRUTHS MINISTRIES
1340 MONROE NW
GRAND RAPIDS, MI 49505-4604
U.S.A.
(616) 451-4562

what I told you I have lived personally and in the 50 and 60 I was there and knew them what they published and said ,

and so stick to what I have said ,

but for all the errors they have published over the years and you tell me ;; As far as false religion being destroyed, don't you agree that it will? i AGREE BUT I DO NOT TELL YOU THAT I AM THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN GET THERE.

Quote

I can not respond on the 1975 prediction except to say that it was a big mistake made by men who, like all of us, are flawed.

INVESTIGATE IT ; this as left many in the dark,there is more to that story that it seems it was started in 1966 if i remember good ,any way if your leaders lying then they are not from God ,

there is not one scripture from the true leaders of God that lied.

this is how we know it is from God is it NOT

I agree with you that they are better than most but that claim does not make them the truth of God

October 1, 2011 at 5:16 pm#332716

Blocked

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 01 2011,11:01)

As far as false religion being destroyed, don't you agree that it will? i AGREE BUT I DO NOT TELL YOU THAT I AM THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN GET THERE.

But you haven't showed me anything where the JWs ever claimed to be “the ONLY way you can get there”.

That is what I'm waiting to see from you or Ed.

October 1, 2011 at 5:24 pm#332717

Blocked

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 01 2011,11:01)

if your leaders lying then they are not from God ,

there is not one scripture from the true leaders of God that lied.

this is how we know it is from God is it NOT

Pierre,

You and I both used to believe that Jesus was raised from the dead as a spirit. We were both wrong. Does that mean we LIED? Does it mean we are NOT FROM GOD?

ALL men make mistakes, Pierre. Why should those who make up the JWs be any different?

Compare the old KJV to the NKJV. Notice all the MISTAKES they've corrected.

Or compare the 1984 NIV with the 2011 NIV.

For years, men have claimed the scriptural things they believe with much zeal for God. Even the way the Pharisees (who were EXPERTS in the Law and the Prophets) understood the scriptures was often shown to be flawed by the Son of God, right?

No man knows everything. Should we remain silent until we DO know everything? When will that be? How will the word be spread in the meantime if we all remain silent?

peace,
mike

October 1, 2011 at 5:25 pm#332718

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 02 2011,03:48)

Hi Mike,

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Mike,

Did you not read this post?
I showed you where the N.W.T. was altered to match their doctrine
and I gave you the link where I asked David the question…
“Is it not true that your organization teaches that non-members are non-Christians?”

That is providing evidence, so your claim “I need to show you” is unwarranted!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

October 1, 2011 at 5:29 pm#332715

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 02 2011,04:24)

Pierre,

You and I both used to believe that Jesus was raised from the dead as a spirit. We were both wrong. Does that mean we LIED? Does it mean we are NOT FROM GOD?

peace,
mike

Hi Mike,

That is just another doctrine of the JW's; the JW's is where you got that from; right?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

October 1, 2011 at 5:32 pm#332714

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 02 2011,11:16)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 01 2011,11:01)

As far as false religion being destroyed, don't you agree that it will? i AGREE BUT I DO NOT TELL YOU THAT I AM THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN GET THERE.

But you haven't showed me anything where the JWs ever claimed to be “the ONLY way you can get there”.

That is what I'm waiting to see from you or Ed.

Mike

I tell you now I will not show you more than what I have told you and what i have given you,

but has a witness of what i have seen and heard I stick to what i have said,the info is there but to me it does not prove nothing because i already know.

if you do not want to investigate it more then it is not my problem to go and force anything on others,

that is fine with me and I will move on from here ,

October 1, 2011 at 5:34 pm#332713