Blatant corruption in the NWT

[Ed J]

Hi David,

Thank you for exploring it all the way with me.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Pastry @ Oct. 11 2011,22:17)

mike!  Does the NWT say in John8:58 “I have been. rather then I am…Irene

Yes Irene, it does.  Would you like to discuss this scripture?

John 14:9  
New International Version (©1984)
Jesus answered: “Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

New Living Translation (©2007)
Jesus replied, “Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you?

English Standard Version (©2001)
Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Jesus said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father '?

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

International Standard Version (©2008)
Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? The person who has seen me has seen the Father. So how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Jesus replied, “I have been with all of you for a long time. Don't you know me yet, Philip? The person who has seen me has seen the Father. So how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Jesus said unto him, Have I been so long a time with you, and yet have you not known me, Philip? he that has seen me has seen the Father; and how say you then, Show us the Father?

American King James Version
Jesus said to him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet have you not known me, Philip? he that has seen me has seen the Father; and how say you then, Show us the Father?

American Standard Version
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and dost thou not know me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; how sayest thou, Show us the Father?

Bible in Basic English
Jesus said to him, Philip, have I been with you all this time, and still you have no knowledge of me? He who has seen me has seen the Father. Why do you say, Let us see the Father?

Douay-Rheims Bible
Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me? Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also. How sayest thou, Shew us the Father?

English Revised Version
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and dost thou not know me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; how sayest thou, Shew us the Father?

Webster's Bible Translation
Jesus saith to him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me Philip? he that hath seen me, hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Weymouth New Testament
“Have I been so long among you,” Jesus answered, “and yet you, Philip, do not know me? He who has seen me has seen the Father. How can *you* ask me, 'Cause us to see the Father'?

World English Bible
Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you such a long time, and do you not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father. How do you say, 'Show us the Father?'

NET ©
Jesus replied, “Have I been with you for so long, and you have not known me, Philip? The person who has seen me has seen the Father! How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

NWT
9 Jesus said to him: “Have I been with YOU men so long a time, and yet, Philip, you have not come to know me? He that has seen me has seen the Father [also]. How is it you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

Irene, do you notice that the JW's New World Translation renders the same words as all of these other translations?  Does it surprise you to know that the words Jesus actually said to Philip were “All this time I am with you and you have not known me Phillip?”

Jesus uses the same Greek words in 14:9 as he does in 8:58.  And virtually every translation “adjusts” those words “I AM” to “I HAVE BEEN” so that they make sense to us in English.  

Another example is John 8:24 NIV:
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins.

Again, Jesus actually only said “I AM” in this verse.  But almost every translation adds their own words AFTER the words “I AM” so that it makes sense to us in English.  Most just add the word “he”, making Jesus say “I am he”.

To translate ANY language into another language, words have to be moved, adjusted, added, or subtracted for the sentence to make sense in the new language.

And what we have here is a case of almost every translation making the needed adjustments in John 8:24, 14:9, and many other places in scripture.  But only the NWT makes the needed adjustment in John 8:58 – because the others all want to pretend that Jesus is calling himself Jehovah.

This is what Greek expert and Professor Jason BeDuhn says about 8:58 in his book “Truth in Translation”, where he compared 9 popular English translations to each other:
“The majority of translations recognize these idiomatic uses of ‘I am’, and properly integrate the words into the context of the passages where they appear.  Yet when it comes to 8:58, they suddenly forget how to translate.  All the translations except the LB and NWT also ignore the true relation between the verbs of the sentence and produce a sentence that makes no sense in English.  These changes in the meaning of the Greek and in the normal procedure for translation point to a bias that has interfered with the work of the translators.  No one listening to Jesus, and no one reading John in his own time would have picked up on a divine self-identification in the mere expression ‘I am’, which, if you think about it, is just about the most common pronoun-verb combination in any language.  The NWT understands the relation between the two verbs correctly.  The average Bible reader might never guess that there was something wrong with the other translations, and might even assume that the error was to be found in the NWT.”

peace,
mike

[terraricca]

david

were is your comment ??

[terraricca]

Mike

I remember a conversation I had with one JW and he told me that the JW organization is the best among all that their is,and so answered him that I am not looking for the best but for the the truth of God what is supreme of all ,

my friend was not to happy of my respond ,he told me good luck ,I told him that luck got nothing to do with it ,

seek and knock does,

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Irene,

Did you understand my last post to you? Any comments?

peace,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Irene?

[Pastry]

Hi Mike! I am finally able to come here again….I only was here one other time…. and I hope it will continue….
As far as your post is concerned, its good…. Peace Irene

[mikeboll64]

Hi Irene,

Then you understand that “I have been” is not a “mistranslation” on the NWT's part, but actually conveys the true meaning of Jesus' statement?

[Pastry]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 28 2011,10:45)

Hi Irene, Then you understand that “I have been” is not a “mistranslation” on the NWT's part, but actually conveys the true meaning of Jesus' statement?

Hi Mike!  Sorry to take so long to reply, but I have been in the Hospital for the last 4 days and 5 nights… As far as your post is concerned, yes I agree…I just asked that question…. to make sure in my mind…Since I don't have a copy of the NWT V of the Bible…I did remember last nights agreement to pray… however my mind is rather weak at the moment and I didn't pray to much….I am sure you two did.,…thanks…..Peace Irene

[mikeboll64]

Hi Irene,

I'm sorry to hear you were back in the hospital again.

I did remember the fast/prayer, as did mikeangel and raziel. Thanks for joining in!

I hope you get to feeling better.

peace and love,
mike

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 02 2011,03:23)

In the NWT, every time the Greek word “proskuneo” is used in reference to God, it is translated as “worship” (Rev 5:14, 7:11, 11:16, 19:4, Jn 4:20, etc.). Every time “proskuneo” is used in reference to Jesus, it is translated as “obeisance” (Mt 14:33, 28:9, 28:17, Lk 24:52, Heb 1:6, etc.), even though it is the same word in the Greek (see Gr-Engl Interlinear). Especially compare the Greek word “prosekunhsan” used with reference to God in Rev 5:14, 7:11, 11:16, and 19:4 and used with reference to Christ in Mt 14:33, 28:9, and 28:17. What is the reason for this inconsistency? If the NWT was consistent in translating “proskuneo” as “worship”, how would the verses above referring to Christ read? The NWT translates the Greek word “kyrios” as “Jehovah” more than 25 times in the New Testament (Mt 3:3, Lk 2:9, Jn 1:23, Acts 21:14, Rom 12:19, Col 1:10, 1Thess 5:2, 1Pet 1:25, Rev 4:8, etc.). Why is the word “Jehovah” translated when it does not appear in the Greek text? Why is the NWT not consistent in translating kyrios (kurion) as “Jehovah” in Rom 10:9, 1Cor 12:3, Phil 2:11, 2Thess 2:1, and Rev 22:21 (see Gr-Engl Interlinear)?   I found this interesting.

Hi Mike,

I re-posted this quote, putting it in this thread, where it fits best. (Here is the Link)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Pastry]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 02 2011,11:15)

Hi Irene, I'm sorry to hear you were back in the hospital again.   I did remember the fast/prayer, as did mikeangel and raziel.  Thanks for joining in! I hope you get to feeling better.   peace and love, mike

Hi Mike! Thank you for your well wishes….Peace and Love Irene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 02 2011,06:52)

Hi Mike, I re-posted this quote, putting it in this thread, where it fits best.

Thanks Ed. I suggested the same thing to Mark before I read your post about moving his post. (I usually answer the posts as I'm reading through them, so I had answered his post before reading yours. )

I do hope he'll come here to discuss this. I assume you moved the other post to the “What do the JWs believe” thread?

Thanks for helping out.

peace,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Pastry @ Nov. 02 2011,14:41)

Hi Mike! Thank you for your well wishes….Peace and Love Irene

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 03 2011,10:07)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 02 2011,06:52) Hi Mike, I re-posted this quote, putting it in this thread, where it fits best. Thanks Ed.  I suggested the same thing to Mark before I read your post about moving his post.  (I usually answer the posts as I'm reading through them, so I had answered his post before reading yours.   ) I do hope he'll come here to discuss this.  I assume you moved the other post to the “What do the JWs believe” thread? Thanks for helping out. peace, mike

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