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Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 24 2007,12:51) Hi KJ,
He had his own glory and this was seen on the mountain.
Hi Nick,
You are completely wrong on this. It was a vision not realityBecause this thread has come up again, here are some good websites for those who are interested in the BU teaching.
http://www.truthortradition.com
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com
http://www.restorationfellowship.orgAlso Adam Pastor (member here) has a wonderful site of his own. I believe you can find it by locating his Avatar and PMing him.
If other's have resources to share on BU sites/books/whatever, please share. I find that a lot (not all) of my beliefs line up quite nicely with the BU's and Christadelpians.
Thanks,
MandyHi,
THis false theology teaches that man is just spirit and body.
The body rots and the spirit returns to God.So for them there cannot be a resurrection but a RECREATION is required.
Body soul and spirit.[1Thess 5]Nick……….Man is a Body with Spirit added to it. You are teaching a false theology of body+ soul+ spirit = WHAT?. Body+ Spirit= SOUL as Scripture says , The body of Adam recieved Spirit from GOD and He became a (LIVING SOUL) AS Scripture says, Why continue to add to what was written? IMo
gene
G,
So can you answer the question about what happens when a body rots and the spirit we are given returns to God. Do you no longer exist?Nick…….Right you no longer exist, you PARISH and Stay that way until GOD recreates another BODY and ADDS Spirit back into It. ” THE DEAD (KNOW) NOTHING, FOR WHEN A MAN DIES HIS (THOUGHTS) PARISH”. THERE IS NO “soul” GOING AROUND FLOATING SOME WHERE. He will remain dead forever If GOD does not restore him by creating a new body and adding Spirit into it. If you understood what Jesus said by Body and Soul being destroyed in the grace you could easily understand this. Fact is Man is a LIVING SOUL because He has a BODY WITH SPIRIT ADDED INTO IT, NOTHING MORE OR LESS.
gene
FALSE TEACHERS:
Quote Everybody, in this room, is going to live forever! No, no, I got to go real slow with you. Everybody, in this room, is going to live forever! I guess I better help you with one more word tagged on to that sentence. Everybody, in this room, is going to live forever, somewhere! – Rod Parsley. Quote Yes, dear friend, the truth of the scripture is that the anger and wrath of G-d will one day fall upon your sins. The only question is, will it fall upon you, in hell, forever, or will it fall upon Jesus Christ, upon the cross. That choice is yours to make. You WILL live forever, somewhere! – D. James Kennedy Quote The important thing is – eternity. Now remember, like I said last night, nobody here is going to die. Our bodies will, of course. This flesh will go back to dust. But the real you, the real person, will never die. The real you, the real spirit, will never die, its gonna live forever. The question is where. Where will this real you live? Will the real you live with God in heaven and glory, or will the real you live with the enemy and his angels and his demons? That's your choice, you see, you make that choice in life. – Benny Hinn Quote Do people live beyond the grave, for all eternity? Yes! One of the things that we must understand, is that, everybody not only is going to die, but everybody is going to live forever, whether you go to heaven, or whether you go to hell. – Raul Ries Quote Also on past television programs broadcast from the South Bend Indiana based LeSEA (Lester Sumrall Evangelistic Association) ministries, Steve Sumrall and Delron Shirley also made the astounding statement that no one ever really dies, that everyone lives forever, the righteous in heaven and the wicked in hell. The late Lester Sumrall even taught this himself; that every human being was given immortality by G-d, and will never die. (Lester Sumrall was an ordained Assemblies of God minister.) Simple example of FALSE TEACHERS!
Actually, this is a belief that is widely accepted by most of the Christian community, but does the Bible teach eternal life (immortality) for everyone, wicked and righteous alike?
What does the Bible really teach about death?
THE FIRST LIE IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
The first lie, told by Satan, assured Eve that she would not die. But what had 'Elohim warned Adam and Eve about eating from the tree of knowledge?
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
O.K. Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, and were doomed to die.
But what about their souls, you might ask, the soul continues on after death, right?
Aren't Adam and Eve (their souls) in heaven now?
THE SOUL THAT SINS SHALL DIE
Ezek 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Ezek 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Psa 22:29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
Psa 33:18 Behold, the eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy;
Psa 33:19 To deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine.Psa 56:13 For thou hast delivered my soul from death: wilt not thou deliver my feet from falling, that I may walk before 'Elohim in the light of the living?
Psa 89:48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave?
The soul dies? Yes!
Nowhere does the Bible speak of humanity possessing an innately immortal soul, but it plainly teaches that the soul (person) that sins is destined to die.
Adam and Eve don't have bodiless souls in heaven, they both are dead in the grave.
Death is the result or penalty of sin:
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of 'Elohim is eternal life through Yeshua HaMoshiach our Lord.
John 3:16 For 'Elohim so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of 'Elohim abideth on him.
John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of 'Elohim hath not life.
1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of 'Elohim; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of 'Elohim.Eternal life will be the reward for those who are righteous, but this is only given after judgment.
The wicked will not see eternal life, but eternal death, they will not have life.
THE SOUL – THE BREATH OF LIFE
But, what of the soul?
Just what is it?
Gen 2:7 And the LORD 'Elohim formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The soul, as shown by this verse, is the spark of life, given by 'Elohim.
Psa 104:29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.
Psa 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.(The word breath in verse 29 and spirit in verse 30 is H7307 ruwach)
When 'Elohim breathed life into Adam, he became a living soul (creature).
Note that Gen. 2:7 does not say 'Elohim put a soul into Adam.
You are a soul because 'Elohim has breathed life into you.
Job 12:9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this?
Job 12:10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of 'Elohim is in my nostrils;
1 Ki 17:17 And it came to pass after these things, that the son of the woman, the mistress of the house, fell sick; and his sickness was so sore, that there was no breath left in him.
1 Ki 17:21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my 'Elohim, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
1 Ki 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.In the above incident with Elijah, the return of the child's soul and br
eath are identical in meaning.You do not have a ghost-like immortal soul that survives your physical death.
Life is what makes you a soul.
Without life you perish.
EVERY SOUL IN THE SEA
Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man; and every living soul died in the sea.
Notice that even the inhabitants of the sea are referred to as living souls, just like Adam.
This is because the soul is only the spark of life, which is given by 'Elohim alone.
It is not a ghost living inside you.
THE RICH MAN WHO LOST HIS SOUL
Note the story of the rich man who thought he was set for a life of leisure because his barns were full:
Luke 12:20 But 'Elohim said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
The rich man's soul did not move to heaven that night, rather he lost his life.
He lost his soul and perished.
He ceased to live, and his goods then became the property of someone else.
All of his planning was worthless.
Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Mat 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?Mark 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
Mark 8:37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?The above two passages make plain that the words soul and life are interchangeable.
When you die, you lose your soul, which is to say you lose your life.
The wicked man who rules the world, but loses his soul, does not take up residence next in hell for eternity.
Rather he perishes, he loses his life, he ceases to exist.
The implication being that he has foolishly traded away his eternal life for earthly wealth.
ADAM AND EVE DENIED ETERNAL LIFE IN SIN
Now notice this account of Adam and Eve and how they were denied eternal life-
Gen 3:22 And the LORD 'Elohim said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD 'Elohim sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.When Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden tree of knowledge of good and evil, they lost the right to eat of the tree of life.
'Elohim expelled them from the garden, forbidding them to eat from the tree of life, and thereby denied them eternal life because they had sinned.
They had to die because of their sin, but death did not give them instant access to heaven!
When Adam and Eve died, they lost the 'Elohim-given spark of life and perished.
They returned to the dust:
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Job 34:15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.
Death returns you to the dust, in a totally unconscious state.
Nothing survives after death.
THE SLEEP OF DEATH
Now notice how Yeshua himself describes death:
John 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
John 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
John 11:13 Howbeit Yeshua spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
John 11:14 Then said Yeshua unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.Mat 9:24 He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.
Mark 5:39 And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.
Luke 8:52 And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.
Luke 8:53 And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead.In Yeshua own words above, death is described to be like a sleep.
Job 14:10 NIV But man dies and is laid low; he breathes his last and is no more.
Job 14:11 As water disappears from the sea or a riverbed becomes parched and dry,
Job 14:12 so man lies down and does not rise; till the heavens are no more, men will not awake or be roused from their sleep.Psa 13:3 Consider and hear me, O LORD my 'Elohim: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;
James 4:14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
Absent From the Body – Present With the Lord?
When a man dies, he is asleep and does not awake until the end of time.
But doesn't Paul say that the very moment he dies he will be with the Messiah?
Phil 1:21 For to me to live is the Messiah, and to die is gain.
Phil 1:22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
Phil 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with the Messiah; which is far better:
Phil 1:24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.2 Cor 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2 Cor 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
2 Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
2 Cor 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.Yeshua equated death with sleep, so Paul is saying that should he die, he would sleep the sleep of death, and next see Yeshua HaMashiach after the resurrection.
To Paul, however, the passing of time after his death would be as an instant, the blink of an eye, and his next thing he would know it would be the second coming, and the resurrection of all the righteous saints.
John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in 'Elohim, believe also in me.
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.When does Yeshua HaMashiach receive us?
Yeshua HaMashiach says it will be at His second coming, not at the moment of death.
Since the dead are asleep in the grave, what do they know, what are they conscious of?
THE DEAD KNOW NOTHING
Eccl 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Eccl 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. . .Eccl 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
The dead know not anything, everything about them perishes, including their conscious mind.
They remain this way until their resurrection.
Psa 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Psa 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.Even the thoughts of the dead perish with them when they lose their soul (the spark of life).
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
The dead are sleeping until their resurrection, that is when they will awake.
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
This verse is used by the Catholic Church to prove that the soul can't be killed, that it is immortal.
In fact it means do not fear those who can kill your physical body but have no control over your resurrection and eternal destiny.
Rather, fear 'Elohim, who does determine who goes into the lake of fire (eternal death) to be forever destroyed, body and soul, and who gets eternal life.
The choice is actually ours, and 'Elohim affirms the choice we make.
1 Cor 15:20 But now is the Messiah risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1 Cor 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in the Messiah shall all be made alive.Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.Those who are dead are asleep in the grave, to be awakened at their resurrection.
The above mentioned saints did not come down from heaven to re-inhabit their bodies.
They were resurrected from the grave (awakened from their sleep) in a victory over death, at the time of Christ's resurrection. Just as Lazerus did.
KING DAVID IS NOT IN HEAVEN
Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. . .
Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
King David is still in the grave.
He is still asleep, still dead, not in heaven.
WHO HAS IMMORTALITY?
1 Tim 6:11 But thou, O man of 'Elohim, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
1 Tim 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1 Tim 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of 'Elohim, who quickeneth all things, and before Yeshua HaMashiach, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
1 Tim 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Yeshua HaMashiach:
1 Tim 6:15 Which in his times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1 Tim 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.In verse 16 above it states that only 'Elohim has immortality.
This includes the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
If 'Elohim only has immortality, then we do not have it, at least not until our resurrection, when we will again be given access to the tree of life.
THE PROMISE OF ETERNAL LIFE
But aren't the righteous believers promised eternal life?:
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.2 Tim 4:1 I charge thee therefore before 'Elohim, and the Lord Yeshua HaMashiach, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
At the second coming, the last day, THAT is when the righteous will receive immortality, but they do not have it before then. Here is a promise of eternal life:
1 John 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Yeshua HaMashiach, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to 'Elohim, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living 'Elohim?
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.Here, in verse 14, the Holy Spirit is the eternal spirit.
Verse 15 says that Yeshua HaMashiach died to redeem us from our sins, that we may receive the eternal life that is promised.
We do not receive this eternal life until after we have been judged righteous, which is at the second coming. Until then, we have the promise of eternal life.
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of 'Elohim.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.We seek immortality, but do not have it yet.
Only the righteous will receive it at the second coming, from 'Elohim Himself, by being permitted access to the tree of life.
The wicked, however, will not be given access to the tree of life, so immortality is simply not possible for them.
They will not live forever, they will perish, they will cease to exist.
THE RESURRECTION HOPE
Every year during the Easter season, Christian pulpits ring with sermons proclaiming the fundamental importance of the resurrection of Yeshua HaMashiach to the Christian faith, and rightly so, for if Yeshua HaMashiach is not raised from the dead, our faith in in vain, as scripture makes very clear:
1 Cor 15:12 Now if Yeshua HaMashiach be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1 Cor 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Yeshua HaMashiach not risen:
1 Cor 15:14 And if Yeshua HaMashiach be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
1 Cor 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of 'Elohim; because we have testified of 'Elohim that he raised up Yeshua HaMashiach: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
1 Cor 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Yeshua HaMashiach raised:
1 Cor 15:17 And if Yeshua HaMashiach be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1 Cor 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Yeshua HaMashiach are perished.
1 Cor 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Yeshua HaMashiach, we are of all men most miserable.
1 Cor 15:20 But now is Yeshua HaMashiach risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1 Cor 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Yeshua HaMashiach shall all be made alive.
1 Cor 15:23 But every man in his own order: Yeshua HaMashiach the firstfruits; afterward they that are Yeshua HaMashiach's at his coming.Paul is clearly teaching here that the resurrection from the dead is a critical point to understand for the Christian, for if there is no resurrection from the dead (as demonstrated by Yeshua HaMashiach's resurrection), your faith is totally in vain.
But, why would Paul say this, if when you died, you continued to live in a conscious spirit form in heaven (as is taught by most Christian churches)?
That would make no sense at all.
Paul is saying that without a resurrection, the dead would cease to exist forever, in any form at all.
Death would be final, a completely futile and hopeless end of existence.
Paul clearly put his hope in the promise of a resurrection from the grave, which he says happens at Yeshua HaMashiach's second coming.
Phil 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Yeshua HaMashiach my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Yeshua HaMashiach,
Phil 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Yeshua HaMashiach, the righteousness which is of 'Elohim by faith:
Phil 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Phil 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.Paul again addressed the resurrection to the Thessalonian church:
1 Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1 Th 4:14 For if we believe that Yeshua HaMashiach died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Yeshua HaMashiach will 'Elohim bring [forth from the grave] with him.
1 Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent [precede] them which are asleep.
1 Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of 'Elohim: and the dead in Yeshua HaMashiach shall rise first:
1 Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1 Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.The Thessalonians were sorrowing over the dead, and concerned that because they were dead, they were gone forever and without any hope of salvation.
Note that Paul does not comfort the Thessalonians by saying the immortal spirits of their dead l
oved ones are already blissfully in heaven in the presence of the Lord.Paul responds that just as Yeshua HaMashiach was resurrected from the dead, so those who have died in faith will be resurrected at the second coming, then to ever be with the Lord.
And Paul makes the point that this resurrection of the righteous dead precedes the living saints joining the Lord in the clouds.
Paul is clearly reaffirming the resurrection hope to the Thessalonian church, not the immortality of the soul.
The resurrection of Yeshua HaMashiach demonstrates that for those with faith in Him, even the power of death can be overcome by that faith:
John 11:21 Then said Martha unto Yeshua HaMashiach, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
John 11:22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of 'Elohim, 'Elohim will give it thee.
John 11:23 Yeshua HaMashiach saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
John 11:25 Yeshua HaMashiach said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?Lazarus was dead, in the grave for four days.
Martha knew nothing of Lazarus being in heaven for the last four days, she mourned because her brother was in his grave, and she knew he would remain there, dead, until until the resurrection of the last day, the second coming of Yeshua HaMashiach.
Yeshua HaMashiach told her that He was the giver of life, that He had power over the grave, and could immediately resurrect her brother from death, because He was and is the son of 'Elohim, the Yeshua HaMashiach.
This resurrection hope, that Yeshua HaMashiach can and will defeat the power of the grave, is the fundamental promise of Christianity, the keystone in the arch of the Christian faith:
Psa 49:15 But 'Elohim will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me.
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. . .John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Rom 6:5 [NIV] If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection.
Rom 6:6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin–
Rom 6:7 because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we died with Yeshua HaMashiach, we believe that we will also live with him.
Rom 6:9 For we know that since Yeshua HaMashiach was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.
Rom 6:10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to 'Elohim.
Rom 6:11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to 'Elohim in Yeshua HaMashiach.Phil 3:10 [NIV] I want to know Yeshua HaMashiach and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,
Phil 3:11 and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.
Phil 3:12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Yeshua HaMashiach took hold of me.
Phil 3:13 Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,
Phil 3:14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which 'Elohim has called me heavenward in Yeshua HaMashiach.1 Pet 1:3 Blessed be the 'Elohim and Father of our Lord Yeshua HaMashiach, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Yeshua HaMashiach from the dead,
1 Pet 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1 Pet 1:5 Who are kept by the power of 'Elohim through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1 Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1 Cor 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1 Cor 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1 Cor 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of 'Elohim and of Yeshua HaMashiach, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
On Matt 22:23-32, Mark 12:19-27, and Luke 20:27-38.
Yeshua HaMoshiach is asked by the Sadducees (who did not believe in a resurrection) a hypothetical case of a woman who has seven consecutive brothers as husbands:
Mark 12:18 Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying,
Mark 12:19 Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man's brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
Mark 12:20 Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed.
Mark 12:21 And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise.
Mark 12:22 And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also.
Mark 12:23 In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.
Mark 12:24 And Yeshua HaMoshiach answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of 'Elohim?
Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
Mark 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush 'Elohim spake unto him, saying, I am the 'Elohim of Abraham, and the 'Elohim of Isaac, and the 'Elohim of Jacob?
Mark 12:27 He is not the 'Elohim of the dead, but the 'Elohim of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.Note that both the question of the Sadducees, and the answer Yeshua HaMoshiach gives, deal with after the resurrection?
If as Catholicism (and much of Christianity) teaches, people went immediately to heaven after death, then the focus of the conversation would have been on the recent dead, not those who are resurrected from death at some point in the future.
Note that Yeshua HaMoshiach rebukes the Sadducees for not knowing the teaching of scripture, or the power of 'Elohim with respect to raising the dead.
Yeshua HaMoshiach is affirming to the Sadducees that there will indeed be a resurrection from death, that there is victory over the grave!
Verse 26, however, does not prove that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are alive in heaven, but rather, because of their faith, they will indeed be resurrected and then be rewarded with eternal life, something the Sadducees rejected (v. 18).
Note that Yeshua HaMoshiach begins verse 26 with – and as touching the dead, that they rise – Yeshua HaMoshiach then goes on to present Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as prime examples of those who will be raised from the dead, despite the false beliefs of the Sadducees.
The Sadducees rejected the resurrection from the dead, and Yeshua HaMoshiach in verse 27 is saying that 'Elohim will not be the 'Elohim of the dead and buried, but the 'Elohim of the living, the resurrected, as he makes clear at the beginning of verse 26.
On Acts 2:29-34
Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet and knowing that 'Elohim had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Yeshua HaMashiach to sit on his throne;
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Yeshua HaMashiach, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Acts 2:32 This Yeshua HaMashiach hath 'Elohim raised up, whereof we are all witnesses.
Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of 'Elohim exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Acts 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Acts 3:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that 'Elohim hath made that same Yeshua HaMashiach, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Messiah.Please note that David is not in heaven (not even in some alleged spirit form).
According to verse 34, he is still dead, still in the grave.
While he was living, David spoke of the resurrection of Yeshua HaMashiach, that Yeshua HaMashiach would not be left in the grave (hell), but rather, 'Elohim would raise Yeshua HaMashiach from the dead and He would be exalted as Lord and Messiah.
It is this victory over death and the grave that Yeshua HaMashiach offers us if we will have faith in Him.
But this reward is something we receive after our resurrection, not before:
Rev 22:12 And behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.We do not get access to the tree of life and live forever until after the second coming, at which time the righteous will be resurrected, and enter the New Jerusalem.
That is when we will be given the opportunity to eat from the tree of life.
On 1 Peter 4:1-6
1 Pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Yeshua HaMashiach hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1 Pet 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of 'Elohim.
1 Pet 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
1 Pet 4:4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run riot, speaking evil of you:
1 Pet 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
1 Pet 4:6 For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to 'Elohim in the spirit.This does not speak of preaching to dead people in the grave in the physical sense.
In context it is speaking of preaching to the Gentiles, the unbelievers, the spiritually dead, that they too might hear and believe the Gospel message.
Another example of this is found in the book of John:
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of 'Elohim: and they that hear shall live.
At the time, Yeshua HaMashiach was speaking of those people hearing His voice at that instant.
Those that were spiritually dead in the crowd that heard and believed Him, would inherit eternal life.
This is exactly what 1 Peter 4:6 is saying as well.
Until the resurrection, however, those in the grave hear nothing and do nothing:
Eccl 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Eccl 9:10 Whatsover thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
The time is indeed coming, however, when Yeshua HaMashiach will speak to those dead in their graves:
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.When we die, we sleep in the grave, we have no thoughts, no consciousness, no existence at al
l, until our resurrection.At the resurrection of the just, at the second coming, the righteous will receive eternal life.
That is the reward for faith:
John 3:16 For 'Elohim so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Yeshua HaMashiach brings the gift or reward of eternal life to bestow on the faithful at the second coming, but not before.
The wicked however, will eventually perish forever in the lake of fire (after the 1000 years).
Any church that teaches otherwise (that everyone, even the wicked, live forever) is merely repeating the first lie told in the Garden of Eden: “Ye shall not surely die”.
Quote (kejonn @ July 16 2007,00:11) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 16 2007,18:56) Hi KJ,
The result is a MAN.
The process is poorly understood.
Mary was not cloned and neither was she a surrogate mother.
But you don't seem to know the process either, because you are not forthcoming with an explanation.BTW, you did not answer my question about John 3. Did Yeshua have to be born again, just as he told Nicodemus?
I should say so, He say's a man must be born again of water and spirit, he did seek out a kindred John and was baptized of water and the spirit did come upon him, these writings we cannot refute, for they are there.The only paradox that I struggle with is with thief upon the cross. Born again? Maybe so, but surely not by water. By spirit? The scripture is silent.
Maybe I will be answered in that day, what do you think?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 27 2009,02:00) Hi CON,
Jesus was given all authority.
Besides the thief died under the old covenant.
Thief died under the New Covenant. Yeshua HaMashiach died prior to the thief, the lamb was slain before the thief died. The Temple was rent prior to the thief expiring.The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and [that] they might be taken away. Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. But when they came to Yeshua HaMoshiach, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. John 19:31-34
And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst. And when Yeshua HaMoshiach had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost. Luke 23:44-46
Yeshua HaMoshiach, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; Matthew 27:50-51
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