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Mike,
Do you think that the Lamb is holy?(I didn't have to search for that song, it is one of my fav's
)Oh, and it isn't just my theory, most Christians would agree that Jesus is holy, He does mighty works, all knees will bow to Him and glorify His name, He is the King of kings, His righteous acts will be revealed…the book of Revelations is about revealing Jesus Christ after all, Jesus is truth, He is the way, His ways are true, He is the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, He has been given all authority and ALL things that the Father has, so He is not just mighty but is almighty. I'd say that the Song of the Lamb could very well be about the Lamb.
Rev 22:6…The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.”
Rev 22:16“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”Now, do you need scriptural support of anything that I wrote? It can be given.
Rev 15:3…“Great and marvelous are Your works,
O Lord God, the Almighty;
Righteous and true are Your ways,
King of the nations!4“Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Your name?
For You alone are holy;
For ALL THE NATIONS WILL COME AND WORSHIP BEFORE YOU,
FOR YOUR RIGHTEOUS ACTS HAVE BEEN REVEALED.”Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 24 2012,08:11) BD,
you said:Quote God has given many testimonies of many sons and none of them are literal son. So if you do not believe God you have made Him a liar,do you even know what it means to be th son of God? There is one who is a literal Son and He is the only begotten Son/only begotten God.
There is definitely a distinction between the only begotten Son/only begotten God and Moses. Read this:Hebrews 3: 5[Now Moses was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken later; 6but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house—whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.
As you said, “You just need to grow and growth doesn't always feel good.”
KathiWasn't Jesus also called a servant of God?
BD,
Nathan the prophet called Solomon a servant to King David but we know that he was a literal son. See that here:24 And Nathan said, “My lord the king, have you said, 'Adoni'jah shall reign after me, and he shall sit upon my throne'?
25 For he has gone down this day, and has sacrificed oxen, fatlings, and sheep in abundance, and has invited all the king's sons, Jo'ab the commander of the army, and Abi'athar the priest; and behold, they are eating and drinking before him, and saying, 'Long live King Adoni'jah!'
26 But me, your servant, and Zadok the priest, and Benai'ah the son of Jehoi'ada, and your servant Solomon, he has not invited.So, a son who does the will of his father could be considered a servant to his father but would not be like a servant who was not a literal son.
Do you think Solomon was not a literal son of David's just because he was referred to as David's servant?
Clearly in Heb 3:5, scripture distinguishes Moses as the servant of God and Jesus as the Son of God.
So, I ask you, according to the scriptures, is is vital to know Jesus, the Son of God, and to believe in Him for eternal life?
1 John 5:9If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. 10The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. 11And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
Do you believe in and have the Son of God as the only begotten Son or is He just one like many of the sons, BD? Please note that 'son' in the passage is NOT plural.
BD,
John 3:16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.19“This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20“For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21“But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
BD, either Jesus is the only literal Son of God, or He is not. I believe that He is and you believe that He is not. One of us has got to be wrong, we both can't be right. One of us practices truth, and one of us doesn't according to the passage in John 3.
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 23 2012,22:56) Oh, and it isn't just my theory, most Christians would agree that Jesus is holy…….
And the ground upon which Moses was standing in Exodus 3:5 was also “holy”. Does that mean the ground was God Almighty?Jesus uses many emphatical phrases in the scriptures (as I've tried to explain to others on the “Word” thread). He says “God alone is good”, but he doesn't mean that all others are “bad”. He says his Father is the “only true God”, but he doesn't mean that the other gods mentioned in the Bible, like himself, are “false gods”. And he says “you alone are holy”, but he doesn't mean it literally, for many other beings and things are “holy” in the scriptures.
These phrases are not literal, but are designed to place Jehovah ABOVE the others who are “gods”, “holy”, and “good”.
In the song that Moses and the Lamb sing to their God, the phrase, “you alone are holy” is emphatical, meaning that Jehovah is MORE holy than anyone or anything else – including Moses and the Lamb, who sing these words to their God.
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 23 2012,22:56) I'd say that the Song of the Lamb could very well be about the Lamb.
Really? The “Song of Moses AND OF the Lamb” is a song ABOUT the Lamb, but not ABOUT Moses?Whatever Kathi. You have just once again shown us all that your own wishes are more important than common sense and what the scriptures actually teach.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 24 2012,15:22) Kathi Wasn't Jesus also called a servant of God?
Asana,It is obvious that the scriptural answer to your question is “YES”.
It's interesting that Kathi decided to post a million words as a diversion from giving that simple answer.
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 26 2012,01:50) BD,
John 3:16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.19“This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20“For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21“But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
BD, either Jesus is the only literal Son of God, or He is not. I believe that He is and you believe that He is not. One of us has got to be wrong, we both can't be right. One of us practices truth, and one of us doesn't according to the passage in John 3.
KathiJesus was a unique “son of God” that's the meaning of the word Monogenes if that wasn't the case then the scripture would simply say Jesus was the “ONLY SON” there would be no need for the use of “begotten/ Monogenes”
1 John 5:18 “We know that everyone who is begotten of God does not sin”
If Jesus is the “Only Begotten” what does this verse mean?
BD,
Jesus certainly was a unique son, that's because He was a literal son! 'Only begotten' really is the intended translation and goes back to the original intent as seen in the early church writings.1 John 5:18 speaks of a second birth…a state of being 'born again' by the Spirit with a new life in the only begotten God.
Mike,
Really a 'million word' post. Lol, you sure are threatened by me aren't you? It is quite funny that you exaggerate so and then right after my 'million word' post, your post is longer than mine. You didn't bother to realize that my post to Bd was not only to answer his question but to quench the argument that was going to go no where. Btw, it is very interesting how you let BD get away with his Muslim ideas but you jump all over my Christian beliefs. Very telling!! Maybe you are a Muslim since you don't believe God would have a 'like begat like' literal son.Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 26 2012,23:24) BD,
Jesus certainly was a unique son, that's because He was a literal son! 'Only begotten' really is the intended translation and goes back to the original intent as seen in the early church writings.1 John 5:18 speaks of a second birth…a state of being 'born again' by the Spirit with a new life in the only begotten God.
So you agree that there are other “begotten” sons of God? If so then how could Jesus be the ONLY Begotten son? Or ar you saying he was the Only Begotten son until others became Begotten Sons?BD,
Jesus is the only 'like begets like' literal son, He is the only begotten son who always existed with the exact nature of His Father, a nature which eternal power and divinity are attributes.Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 26 2012,06:34) Btw, it is very interesting how you let BD get away with his Muslim ideas but you jump all over my Christian beliefs.
Asana and I have gone round and round on certain scriptural issues in the past. But why would I argue against him when he is speaking scripturally?Btw Kathi, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven……”.
This is equivalent to saying, “Not everyone who says, 'I am a Christian' will enter the kindom of heaven”. Don't confuse the “Christianity” YOU teach with what Jesus and his Apostles taught. They are two very different things.Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 26 2012,06:34) Mike,
Really a 'million word' post.
The point was that his question could have and SHOULD HAVE been answered by you with a simple “YES” – for that IS the answer to his question, and you know it.Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 28 2012,00:31) BD,
Jesus is the only 'like begets like' literal son, He is the only begotten son who always existed with the exact nature of His Father, a nature which eternal power and divinity are attributes.
KathiAre there other begotten sons who if they have enough faith can do whatever Jesus can do?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 27 2012,11:56) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 26 2012,06:34) Mike,
Really a 'million word' post.
The point was that his question could have and SHOULD HAVE been answered by you with a simple “YES” – for that IS the answer to his question, and you know it.
Mike,
So you are in a huff because I used more words than you would, ha, that's funny!I actually didn't just want to simply answer the question but the whole line of questions that would have come if I had just answered with a 'yes.' Get it?
I know that you were belittled as a child by your brothers and that is a wound in your past. Is that why you belittle me so often even about how many words I use? Get some healing for those wounds in your past and then stop the pattern!! Do you really think that belittling others pleases God? Is He really directing you to belittle me for even how many words I use, btw many of those words were scriptures-word for word.
Get some help. You can be free from your past wounds. That is good news!!
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 27 2012,12:02) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 28 2012,00:31) BD,
Jesus is the only 'like begets like' literal son, He is the only begotten son who always existed with the exact nature of His Father, a nature which eternal power and divinity are attributes.
KathiAre there other begotten sons who if they have enough faith can do whatever Jesus can do?
BD,
No. For one thing no one can open the seals of the scroll but Jesus. That wasn't only about faith though, that was about being the perfect kinsman redeemer. No man could pay the price to redeem mankind. No man can pay the price to redeem even one man let alone mankind except the only begotten God incarnate. He had to become man to be a 'kinsman' redeemer to open the seals.There are many things that those in Christ can do by faith in Christ, through Christ who strengthens them. They can't redeem mankind though like Christ did.
Rev 5
1Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals. 2And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?” 3But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. 4I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. 5Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 27 2012,11:49) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 26 2012,06:34) Btw, it is very interesting how you let BD get away with his Muslim ideas but you jump all over my Christian beliefs.
Asana and I have gone round and round on certain scriptural issues in the past. But why would I argue against him when he is speaking scripturally?Btw Kathi, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven……”.
This is equivalent to saying, “Not everyone who says, 'I am a Christian' will enter the kindom of heaven”. Don't confuse the “Christianity” YOU teach with what Jesus and his Apostles taught. They are two very different things.
Mike,
Let's look at this:“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven……”
Now look at this:
NIV 1 Corinth 12:3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.The two passages seem to be in conflict with each other. One says that you can't say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit and the other says not everyone that calls Him Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven.
The Peshitta clears up this conflict:
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Because I inform you of this: there is no man who speaks by The Spirit of God and says, “Yeshua is damned”, neither can a man say, “Yeshua is THE LORD JEHOVAH”, except by The Spirit of Holiness.So, Mike, can you say Yeshua is the LORD JEHOVAH? Not everyone that calls Yeshua 'Lord' means 'Jesus is LORD JEHOVAH.' That is quite evident!!
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 28 2012,15:53) Do you really think that belittling others pleases God?
I believe God is pleased when I put you on the hot seat, and make you stand and defend the twistings of scripture that you preach.In all those words you wrote to Asana, not once did you say, “YES BD, Jesus IS a servant of God”. I find that odd, since it is the most DIRECT and TRUTHFUL answer to his simple question. I was merely pointing out the fact that you didn't actually answer his question, when a simple “YES” would have sufficed.
Btw, you should learn to attack the words written, Kathi, not the person who wrote them. Personal attacks are the last resort of those who are losing the scriptural battle. We've all seen it a thousand times on this site.
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 28 2012,16:17) The two passages seem to be in conflict with each other
Not from where I'm sitting. We can discuss this “conflict” at some point if you'd like, but I was just trying to point out to you that saying you're Christian doesn't necessarily mean you believe the things taught in the scriptures. Trinitarians are a case in point. So are non-preexisters.It seems that Asana and I are in scriptural agreement more often than you and I are – and you and I both claim to be Christians while he's a Muslim. How can that be?
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