Biblical discussion – BD, LU, Mikeboll, ST

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 31 2012,18:28)

Quote (Lightenup @ May 30 2012,21:03) BD, you said: Quote Jesus said about The Almighty: John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Notice that Jesus spoke of himself here as something seperate from “GOD” using “and” if Jesus was part of a membership called God he could not have said some other being is THE ONLY TRUE GOD but he was telling you the truth and he is not God but he was sent by THE ONLY TRUE ONE GOD no membership In this context Jesus calls the Father, the only true God but includes Himself as one that 'they' may know. And who is Jesus…our one Lord. So Jesus is telling the Father that He prays that 'they' would know the only true God, the Father and Himself, the one Lord.  That goes right with 1 Cor 8:6 doesn't it. yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. Kathi, Is God the Father your Lord?  Is He the Lord of all heaven and earth, like Jesus says?

Mike,
God the Father AND God the Son are together the Lord of all heaven and earth.

Acts 10:36
You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, telling the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.

[Lightenup]

Quote (Lightenup @ May 29 2012,18:43)

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 29 2012,15:49) Quote (Lightenup @ May 30 2012,04:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 29 2012,01:21) There is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD according to HIS Christ Jesus, that means that even Jesus is not a TRUE GOD. There can be ONLY ONE BD, There is one Lord and that is Jesus. Do you think that means that the Father is not our Lord also? I don't think so. Neither do I think that just because the Bible says that there is one God, the Father, that means that Jesus is not God. In another place Jesus is called God (even Jehovah) by the Father and also by apostles. 1 Cor. 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. Jesus tells us that He and the Father are one. Deuteronomy tells us that Jehovah is the one God who is God of gods and Lord of lords. Revelations tells us that Jesus is the Lord of lords. Corinthians tells us that our one Lord is Jesus. Hebrews quotes the Father showing us that the Son is Jehovah that laid the foundation of the earth and that the heavens are the works of His hands. Jehovah is a name indicating eternal existence and is given to the Father and the Son and the unity they make. When the Bible says that Jehovah is one God, that one God is both God of gods and Lord of lords…a unity which contains a Father and a Son. One of the members was sent by the other to become flesh so that His flesh could be sacrificed and blood shed for the remissions of sin for mankind. While He was walking in the flesh, He explained the Father and brought a new covenant to provide salvation to both believing Jews and Gentiles. In His explanation of the Father, He explained that He and the Father were in unity and that He did nothing outside of that unity. His words and actions are in agreement with what the Father would have Him say and do. Now we have salvation in the name of Jesus. Our hope is not that we will be able to be righteous in our own strength like Jesus but our righteousness comes by being in Jesus. We have that righteousness when we accept Him as our Lord and Savior and walk in that belief. God bless! Hi The problem with you statement is Jesus was the One who said that the father was the ONLY TRUE GOD o if you disagree it's not with me it's with Jesus. Other people were referred to as god even Moses was referred to as a “god” by God. There is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD and LORD BD, You say there is only one true God and Lord. Is Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior?

What is your answer to that question, BD?

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 31 2012,18:16)

Quote (Lightenup @ May 30 2012,23:13) Acts 20:28 “Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of (the) God which He purchased with His own blood. Or……………. “the church of the God, which He purchased with the blood of His own”. Romans 8:32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all You can see how Romans 8:32 tells the same message as Acts 20:28; the word “son” is the only difference.  And even if you omit the word “son” in 8:32, or add it in 20:28, both messages will still be the same, and both will still align perfectly with the entire teaching of the NT:  God sent His Son to die, not God Himself came to die.

Mike,
The begotten God purchased the church with His own blood. You know this.

[Lightenup]

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 31 2012,23:00)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2012,10:25) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 30 2012,09:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2012,12:02) My understanding is this: If our ONE and ONLY God Almighty has a Son named Jesus, and Jesus DOESN'T have a Son named Jesus, then Jesus cannot possibly BE our ONE and ONLY God Almighty. Brilliant! Thanks, Asana. I didn't really understand how Kathi's response addressed this simple fact. Kathi, do you agree that there exists only ONE God Almighty?  Do you agree that that ONE has a Son named Jesus? Her idea issimply that the word of God has no sovereign meaning. She is sing yes Jesus has a God but he is also a God to her the word God is like the word Human. There are humans and there are gods but God the Father is the head of all the gods, this is how I believe she believes but she can't seem to grasp when Jesus says that Tha Father is THE ONLY TRUE GOD it literally excludes all others whereas you cannot use this idea with Humans who is the only true human? She worships Jesus as God and not God Almighty as GodMost High

Wrong BD,
I worship the Father and the Son together with their Spirit. I believe that is the fullness of God Almighty. Take one of these away and you do not have a saving God and therefore not almighty to save.

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 31 2012,18:25)

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 30 2012,09:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2012,12:02) My understanding is this: If our ONE and ONLY God Almighty has a Son named Jesus, and Jesus DOESN'T have a Son named Jesus, then Jesus cannot possibly BE our ONE and ONLY God Almighty. Brilliant! Thanks, Asana. I didn't really understand how Kathi's response addressed this simple fact. Kathi, do you agree that there exists only ONE God Almighty?  Do you agree that that ONE has a Son named Jesus?

Mike,
I agree that there is one God Almighty. The Father with the Son and their Holy Spirit. The one God Almighty is never without the Son. Therefore, the Son named Jesus is included in the one God Almighty.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ June 01 2012,20:04)

Mike, God the Father AND God the Son are together the Lord of all heaven and earth. Mike, The begotten God purchased the church with His own blood. You know this. Mike, I agree that there is one God Almighty. The Father with the Son and their Holy Spirit. The one God Almighty is never without the Son.

Revelation 4
Day and night they never stop saying:

  “Holy, holy, holy

  is the Lord God Almighty,

  who was, and is, and is to come.”

9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne………..the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne………and say:

11 “You are worthy, our Lord and God,
  to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
  and by your will they were created
  and have their being.”

Kathi, do you agree that “him who sits on the throne” is the Lord God Almighty?  Do you agree that “him who sits on the throne” is the Lord and God of the four living creatures and the 24 elders?  I will assume you do.

But is the Son a part of this Lord and God who sits on the throne?

Revelation 5
1 Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides…………..

6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain……………..

7 He came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne.

If the Lamb is the Son, then it is clear that the Son is NOT a part of the Lord and God who sits on the throne, but a different entity who takes the scroll from the hand of him who sits on the throne.  Are we still in agreement so far?

Rev 5:9
And they sang a new song:

  “You are worthy to take the scroll
  and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
  and with your blood you purchased men for God
  from every tribe and language and people and nation.
10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
  and they will reign on the earth.”

The Lamb purchased men with ITS blood (not GOD'S blood).  And those men were purchased BY the Lamb, FOR God (not for the Lamb itself).  Are we still in agreement?

The Lamb made those men to be priests to serve “our God”.  Notice how the God mentioned is not only the God of the four living creatures and the 24 elders, but also of the Lamb (for the Lamb is included in the statement “our God”).  The Lamb is not that Lord and God who sits on the throne , but instead included in the group of those whose Lord and God it is that sits on the throne.

Are we in agreement about these things? I believe this one passage of scripture addresses all three of the points you made in the quote box above.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ June 01 2012,21:10)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 31 2012,18:25) Kathi, do you agree that there exists only ONE God Almighty? Mike, I agree that there is one God Almighty.

Good, we are in agreement on this part.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 31 2012,18:25)

Do you agree that that ONE has a Son named Jesus?

Quote (Lightenup @ June 01 2012,21:10)

the Son named Jesus is included in the one God Almighty.

Which understanding is supported by scripture:

1.  God Almighty HAS a Son named Jesus?

2.  God Almighty CONSISTS OF a Son named Jesus?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2012,01:13)

Quote (Lightenup @ June 01 2012,21:10) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 31 2012,18:25) Kathi, do you agree that there exists only ONE God Almighty? Mike, I agree that there is one God Almighty. Good, we are in agreement on this part. Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 31 2012,18:25) Do you agree that that ONE has a Son named Jesus? Quote (Lightenup @ June 01 2012,21:10) the Son named Jesus is included in the one God Almighty. Which understanding is supported by scripture: 1.  God Almighty HAS a Son named Jesus? 2.  God Almighty CONSISTS OF a Son named Jesus?

Mike

Your argument and scriptural reference is perfect and logical so there is no doubt that Kathi simply wants to believe what she wants to believe despite anything you show with the scriptures even when Jesus says:

John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Kathi does not care that Jesus declares that there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD and it is not him.

Kathi does not believe that God created Jesus but how can someone be a son without a Father causing them to be?

So I say let her believe what she wants ahough she may be commiting a sin by violating the MOST important commandment of ALL it is not intentional

[mikeboll64]

I agree, Asana.  “For us there is but one God, THE FATHER“; but not for those who insist upon Jesus being the very God he is the Son of.

[Lightenup]

Quote (Lightenup @ June 01 2012,21:09)

Quote (Lightenup @ May 29 2012,18:43) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 29 2012,15:49) Quote (Lightenup @ May 30 2012,04:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 29 2012,01:21) There is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD according to HIS Christ Jesus, that means that even Jesus is not a TRUE GOD. There can be ONLY ONE BD, There is one Lord and that is Jesus. Do you think that means that the Father is not our Lord also? I don't think so. Neither do I think that just because the Bible says that there is one God, the Father, that means that Jesus is not God. In another place Jesus is called God (even Jehovah) by the Father and also by apostles. 1 Cor. 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. Jesus tells us that He and the Father are one. Deuteronomy tells us that Jehovah is the one God who is God of gods and Lord of lords. Revelations tells us that Jesus is the Lord of lords. Corinthians tells us that our one Lord is Jesus. Hebrews quotes the Father showing us that the Son is Jehovah that laid the foundation of the earth and that the heavens are the works of His hands. Jehovah is a name indicating eternal existence and is given to the Father and the Son and the unity they make. When the Bible says that Jehovah is one God, that one God is both God of gods and Lord of lords…a unity which contains a Father and a Son. One of the members was sent by the other to become flesh so that His flesh could be sacrificed and blood shed for the remissions of sin for mankind. While He was walking in the flesh, He explained the Father and brought a new covenant to provide salvation to both believing Jews and Gentiles. In His explanation of the Father, He explained that He and the Father were in unity and that He did nothing outside of that unity. His words and actions are in agreement with what the Father would have Him say and do. Now we have salvation in the name of Jesus. Our hope is not that we will be able to be righteous in our own strength like Jesus but our righteousness comes by being in Jesus. We have that righteousness when we accept Him as our Lord and Savior and walk in that belief. God bless! Hi The problem with you statement is Jesus was the One who said that the father was the ONLY TRUE GOD o if you disagree it's not with me it's with Jesus. Other people were referred to as god even Moses was referred to as a “god” by God. There is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD and LORD BD, You say there is only one true God and Lord. Is Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior? What is your answer to that question, BD?

BD,
I noticed that you haven't answered this question yet. Do you want to tell us why?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Lightenup @ June 03 2012,16:04)

Quote (Lightenup @ June 01 2012,21:09) Quote (Lightenup @ May 29 2012,18:43) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 29 2012,15:49) Quote (Lightenup @ May 30 2012,04:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 29 2012,01:21) There is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD according to HIS Christ Jesus, that means that even Jesus is not a TRUE GOD. There can be ONLY ONE BD, There is one Lord and that is Jesus. Do you think that means that the Father is not our Lord also? I don't think so. Neither do I think that just because the Bible says that there is one God, the Father, that means that Jesus is not God. In another place Jesus is called God (even Jehovah) by the Father and also by apostles. 1 Cor. 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. Jesus tells us that He and the Father are one. Deuteronomy tells us that Jehovah is the one God who is God of gods and Lord of lords. Revelations tells us that Jesus is the Lord of lords. Corinthians tells us that our one Lord is Jesus. Hebrews quotes the Father showing us that the Son is Jehovah that laid the foundation of the earth and that the heavens are the works of His hands. Jehovah is a name indicating eternal existence and is given to the Father and the Son and the unity they make. When the Bible says that Jehovah is one God, that one God is both God of gods and Lord of lords…a unity which contains a Father and a Son. One of the members was sent by the other to become flesh so that His flesh could be sacrificed and blood shed for the remissions of sin for mankind. While He was walking in the flesh, He explained the Father and brought a new covenant to provide salvation to both believing Jews and Gentiles. In His explanation of the Father, He explained that He and the Father were in unity and that He did nothing outside of that unity. His words and actions are in agreement with what the Father would have Him say and do. Now we have salvation in the name of Jesus. Our hope is not that we will be able to be righteous in our own strength like Jesus but our righteousness comes by being in Jesus. We have that righteousness when we accept Him as our Lord and Savior and walk in that belief. God bless! Hi The problem with you statement is Jesus was the One who said that the father was the ONLY TRUE GOD o if you disagree it's not with me it's with Jesus. Other people were referred to as god even Moses was referred to as a “god” by God. There is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD and LORD BD, You say there is only one true God and Lord. Is Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior? What is your answer to that question, BD? BD, I noticed that you haven't answered this question yet. Do you want to tell us why?

It's because the question is geared towards an attempt to make me be not be not of the norm thereby giving sympathy to your cause.

The actual answer is that God is the only Actual Saviour Jesus is called the salvation of God so it is God that is actually doing the saving.

Jude 1:25
To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

This text is not about Jesus because Jesus already told us who has The Power and The Glory forever when he told us how to pray. but still look further.

Isaiah 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

God sends Saviours like Moses but the one doin the sending is the one doing the saving and yet it would not be wrong to say that Moses was a saviour or that Jesus is a saviour the problem is when you take glory away from God as if these people decided to save on their own as if they could save anyone without God's permission.

Hosea 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

Do you understand yet? Look:

Obadiah 1:21
And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD's.

Moses is treated like Jesus in respect to greatness, look:

Revelation 15:3
And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

[Lightenup]

Hi Mike and BD,
I will get to your posts but not for a few days. I'm going to be busy making a movie with Harrison Ford It is called “42, The Jackie Robinson Story” to come out next April. Anything ya want me to tell him?

Take care,
Kathi

[mikeboll64]

Yes. Tell Mr. Ford that Jesus is NOT the God he is the Son of. Tell him that our ONE God Almighty has a Son named Jesus, and unless Jesus has a Son named Jesus, he is obviously NOT our ONE God Almighty.

(Oh, and you can tell him I've enjoyed his work since Star Wars. He is another Clint Eastwood in my book – ie: loved his early stuff – still loving his later stuff. )

[Lightenup]

Mike,
All I got to do was wave at him, so you will have to make a movie with him yourself or send him a letter if you have something to tell him.

[Lightenup]

Bd,
So it seems that since, in your opinion, YHVH is not both the Father and the Son, then you are saying that the Father is your Lord and Savior and Jesus is not your Lord and Savior. Is that correct?

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 02 2012,09:02)

Quote (Lightenup @ June 01 2012,20:04) Mike, God the Father AND God the Son are together the Lord of all heaven and earth. Mike, The begotten God purchased the church with His own blood. You know this. Mike, I agree that there is one God Almighty. The Father with the Son and their Holy Spirit. The one God Almighty is never without the Son. Revelation 4 Day and night they never stop saying:   “Holy, holy, holy   is the Lord God Almighty,   who was, and is, and is to come.” 9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne………..the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne………and say: 11 “You are worthy, our Lord and God,   to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things,   and by your will they were created   and have their being.” Kathi, do you agree that “him who sits on the throne” is the Lord God Almighty?  Do you agree that “him who sits on the throne” is the Lord and God of the four living creatures and the 24 elders?  I will assume you do. But is the Son a part of this Lord and God who sits on the throne? Revelation 5 1 Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides………….. 6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain…………….. 7 He came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. If the Lamb is the Son, then it is clear that the Son is NOT a part of the Lord and God who sits on the throne, but a different entity who takes the scroll from the hand of him who sits on the throne.  Are we still in agreement so far? Rev 5:9 And they sang a new song:   “You are worthy to take the scroll   and to open its seals, because you were slain,   and with your blood you purchased men for God   from every tribe and language and people and nation. 10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,   and they will reign on the earth.” The Lamb purchased men with ITS blood (not GOD'S blood).  And those men were purchased BY the Lamb, FOR God (not for the Lamb itself).  Are we still in agreement? The Lamb made those men to be priests to serve “our God”.  Notice how the God mentioned is not only the God of the four living creatures and the 24 elders, but also of the Lamb (for the Lamb is included in the statement “our God”).  The Lamb is not that Lord and God who sits on the throne , but instead included in the group of those whose Lord and God it is that sits on the throne. Are we in agreement about these things?  I believe this one passage of scripture addresses all three of the points you made in the quote box above.

Hi Mike,
you asked:

Quote

Kathi, do you agree that “him who sits on the throne” is the Lord God Almighty? Do you agree that “him who sits on the throne” is the Lord and God of the four living creatures and the 24 elders? I will assume you do. But is the Son a part of this Lord and God who sits on the throne?

I agree that the one who sits on the throne is the Lord God Almighty. Also, I agree that Him who sits on the throne is the Lord and God of the four living creatures and the 24 elders.
The Son is part of a Father/Son unity with the one on the throne that is being addressed.

Quote

If the Lamb is the Son, then it is clear that the Son is NOT a part of the Lord and God who sits on the throne, but a different entity who takes the scroll from the hand of him who sits on the throne. Are we still in agreement so far?

No we are not in agreement. The lamb is not the person on the throne in this context but that doesn't mean that He is not a part of the unity with the one on the throne.

Quote

The Lamb purchased men with ITS blood (not GOD'S blood).

The Lamb is the begotten God in the flesh, Mike. It is not the Father's blood but it IS the begotten God's blood according to the flesh that He indwelt.

Quote

And those men were purchased BY the Lamb, FOR God (not for the Lamb itself). Are we still in agreement?

The 'purchased' men are for both the Father and the Son, Mike. The Son always serves His Father because He is a perfect Son. That doesn't mean they are not in unity as our God. One member serves the other within the unity as a perfect Son would to His Father. That doesn't mean one is unequal to the other by nature or less powerful or less wise.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ June 10 2012,21:11)

I agree that the one who sits on the throne is the Lord God Almighty. Also, I agree that Him who sits on the throne is the Lord and God of the four living creatures and the 24 elders. The Son is part of a Father/Son unity with the one on the throne that is being addressed.

Sorry Kathi, but according to the passage, the Lamb is someone OTHER THAN the Lord and God who sits on the throne.

Surely Jesus does not take the scroll from his own hand.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Lightenup @ June 11 2012,13:37)

Bd, So it seems that since, in your opinion, YHVH is not both the Father and the Son, then you are saying that the Father is your Lord and Savior and Jesus is not your Lord and Savior. Is that correct?

Yes, I am saying That God Almighty is ALWAYS doing the actual saving Jesus was not the saviour of the Israelites. Moses was sent to them as a Saviour on behalf of God and Jesus was sent likewise on behalf of God. There are many Saviours that God sent and still sends today but they are only Vicegerant:

vice·ge·rent
   [vahys-jeer-uhnt] Show IPA

noun
1.
an officer appointed as deputy by and to a sovereign or supreme chief.

Just keep in mind that Jesus was ANNOINTED to be a Saviour of men and a lord amongst men. He was not annointed to be God, God does not need annointing, who would or could annoint God Almighty? He has THE POWER, THE GLORY and THE KINGDOM FOREVER…Amen.

Those who believe in the Law will be Judged by the Law, those who believe in Christ will be judged by that standard and both the Law and Christ will both save or condemn o it all comes down ultimately to the GRACE of GOD ALMIGHTY.

Jesus proves this when he admits you may cast out demons in his name do all sorts of miracles in his name and still not be saved and still be called a worker of iniquity but if you follow the will of God Almighty and trust in HIM you simply cannot lose.

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 11 2012,20:41)

Quote (Lightenup @ June 10 2012,21:11) I agree that the one who sits on the throne is the Lord God Almighty. Also, I agree that Him who sits on the throne is the Lord and God of the four living creatures and the 24 elders. The Son is part of a Father/Son unity with the one on the throne that is being addressed. Sorry Kathi, but according to the passage, the Lamb is someone OTHER THAN the Lord and God who sits on the throne. Surely Jesus does not take the scroll from his own hand.

Mike you didn't read my statement correctly. The Lamb is the Son and the Son is in unity with the Father. The Father is on the throne. The Son is not being addressed until the next chapter. That doesn't at all mean that they are not a unity just because both are not on the throne in this context.

Jesus takes the scroll from the Father. There was no creature able to do this. Notice it doesn't say that there was no 'other' creature able to do this. Jesus is not a creature, i.e. created being. fyi.

[Lightenup]

BD,

Is 2 Peter not a book you have read?

2 Peter 317You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness, 18but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

2 Pet 2:18For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error, 19promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved. 20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. 22It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”

2 Pet 15Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, 6and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, 7and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. 8For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. 10Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; 11for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

Do any of the other 'saviors' have an eternal kingdom BD. Do any other 'saviors' provide salvation to all mankind, BD?

Do you see that Peter calls Jesus his Lord and Savior and that Lord and Savior has an eternal kingdom. Perhaps any other human savior was a type of the ultimate savior who has an eternal kingdom and to whom belongs the glory, i.e. Jesus our Lord and Savior.

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