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Quote (Lightenup @ June 29 2012,23:30) Jesus is a member of the unity that He is the Son in.
Is Jesus the Son OF God? Or the Son IN God?Your switch to the word “IN” doesn't address the scriptural fact that we have but one Most High God, and Jesus is not that One, but the Son OF that One.
Quote (Lightenup @ June 30 2012,07:37) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 28 2012,14:40) You simply don't get many parts of the Bible Jesus declared that he was not the son of David but you don't understand. Mark 12:35-37
King James Version (KJV)
35 And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David?
36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
37 David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.
This i what I mean you don't look thoroughly, Tell me who Anointed “The Father”?
Bump for Mike.Mike do you see that Asana is saying that Jesus is not the Son of David in this bumped post?
Yes, Jesus is the son (descendent) of David, according to the flesh. (Romans 1:3)In Mark 12:35-37, Jesus was explaining that he is both the Root AND the Offspring of David. (Rev 22:16)
His point was not to tell the Pharisees that he wasn't the son of David, but to explain to them that scripturally, the Messiah had to be MORE than JUST the son of David, or David would have never called him “my Lord”.
Quote (bodhitharta @ June 29 2012,00:01) Quote (Lightenup @ June 29 2012,08:27) BD, Quote Now I see by the way you right, how you interpret if I thought like you I could say you just proclaimed me “Lord Bodhitharta” LOL, I'm glad you realize that I do not see you as the Lord Jesus. Thanks for catching that. Is that the only punctuation error that I have made in this thread? I'll bet you can find others. Why don't you read it through from the beginning, carefully. If you do, you will see that I have said that the Father has authority over His Son. Apparently you missed that from what your comment demonstrates:
Quote
You won't give the Father Sovereign rights, do you know what Sovereign means?sovereign n. One that exercises supreme, permanent authority, especially in a nation or other governmental unit
So wouldn't this definition Make the Father Sovereign since you agree He has the greater Authority. even if everyone and everything was “God” would the Father have SUPREME AUTHORITY?
The thing about the sovereignty of the Father is that the way He is sovereign is through His Son, not by Himself.
http://www.cbn.com/media/player/index.aspx?s=/vod/AL32v1_WS
Bodhitharta, grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord. Don't miss the message
Greater truth = greater peace You may think that you have peace now but wait till you meet the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. You will experience true freedom to embrace Jesus as Lord!
Don't you mean the gods of Abraham? You have already stated that there were at least 2 gods 1 unbegotten and the other begotten so you definitely worship 2 gods
BD,
You asked:Quote Don't you mean the gods of Abraham? You have already stated that there were at least 2 gods 1 unbegotten and the other begotten so you definitely worship 2 gods The God of Abrahah, Isaac, and Jacob is who I am talking about. Can you even say these words, “My God is the God of abraham, Isaac, and Jacob”?
I would really like to hear your answer, BD.
My answer to your question is this:
The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is one Jehovah not a different one for each of those patriarchs. That one Jehovah is God of gods AND Lord of Lords. God of gods is the Father and Lord of lords is the Father's Son. The Father and the Son are two different persons, the begetter and the Begotten, who are both the same kind of being. They together act as one Sovereign authority and as one Creator and one Savior. They are 'echad.'So those who worship Jehovah in truth worship the God of gods AND the
Lord of lords, two persons, not just the one who is God of gods.Deut 10:17
“For the LORD your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe.I hope that helps
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2012,09:03) Quote (Lightenup @ June 30 2012,07:37) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 28 2012,14:40) You simply don't get many parts of the Bible Jesus declared that he was not the son of David but you don't understand. Mark 12:35-37
King James Version (KJV)
35 And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David?
36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
37 David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.
This i what I mean you don't look thoroughly, Tell me who Anointed “The Father”?
Bump for Mike.Mike do you see that Asana is saying that Jesus is not the Son of David in this bumped post?
Yes, Jesus is the son (descendent) of David, according to the flesh. (Romans 1:3)In Mark 12:35-37, Jesus was explaining that he is both the Root AND the Offspring of David. (Rev 22:16)
His point was not to tell the Pharisees that he wasn't the son of David, but to explain to them that scripturally, the Messiah had to be MORE than JUST the son of David, or David would have never called him “my Lord”.
Thanks Mike, glad to see that we agree here. Do you see that Asana says that I don't get most parts of the Bible and then he, immediately and inadvertently shows us all that he does not 'get' that passage about David?If it is scriptural, I agree with it.
It is scriptural that Jesus died for our sins, so on this point, Asana and I disagree.
It is scriptural that Jesus is the Son of the Most High God, not the Most High God he is the Son of, so on this point, you and I disagree.
It is scriptural that Jesus existed with glory in the form of God before emptying himself and being made into the likeness of a human being, so on this point, I disagree with the non-preexisters, who have a personal wish for Jesus to have been nothing but exactly like them because they selfishly think this empowers them to accomplish the things he accomplished.
I see a lot of people on this site who are willing to twist, change, and ignore clear scriptures to make their personal doctrines work out.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2012,08:57) Quote (Lightenup @ June 29 2012,23:30) Jesus is a member of the unity that He is the Son in.
Is Jesus the Son OF God? Or the Son IN God?Your switch to the word “IN” doesn't address the scriptural fact that we have but one Most High God, and Jesus is not that One, but the Son OF that One.
Mike,
I think it is a problem with semantics and understanding.The God of gods (the Father) AND the Lord of lords (the Son) are both referred to as theos in the NT.
The Father is theos and the Son is theos.
In Deut 10:17, they are together referred to as our great,mighty and awesome God (singular because they are both theos as a compound unity). According to my understanding.
So when I say that Jesus is the Son of God…'God' means the Father and not the unity necessarily.
When I say that Jesus is the Son 'in' the Most High God'…'God' refers to the unity and not necessarily just the 'Father.'
Like anything, understanding brings clarity.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2012,09:36) If it is scriptural, I agree with it. It is scriptural that Jesus died for our sins, so on this point, Asana and I disagree.
It is scriptural that Jesus is the Son of the Most High God, not the Most High God he is the Son of, so on this point, you and I disagree.
It is scriptural that Jesus existed with glory in the form of God before emptying himself and being made into the likeness of a human being, so on this point, I disagree with the non-preexisters, who have a personal wish for Jesus to have been nothing but exactly like them because they selfishly think this empowers them to accomplish the things he accomplished.
I see a lot of people on this site who are willing to twist, change, and ignore clear scriptures to make their personal doctrines work out.
Mike,
Like I said, I think our diagreement is over semantics and I am trying to work through this with you.Mike,
I maybe wrong but I think your disagreement with Asana is far greater as to who Jesus is than what you portray as you two seem to be each others cohort in this thread.For instance:
You believe that Jesus died. Asana does not.
You believe that Jesus is a literal begotten Son. Asana does not.
You believe that the Abrahamic covenant came through Isaac. Asana does not.These are just some of the major differences yet you two act like you agree as to who Jesus is. Why is that?
Quote (Lightenup @ June 30 2012,08:55) The God of gods (the Father) AND the Lord of lords (the Son) are both referred to as theos in the NT.
And how does your understanding fit in with 1 Timothy 6:15, where it is the Father who is called “the Lord of lords”?You are simply trying to FORCE scriptures like Deuteronomy 10:17 to speak of TWO, when it is clear throughout scripture that the Most High God is ONE, and that ONE has a Son named Jesus.
It is not a matter of semantics, Kathi, but a matter of you showing a total disregard for what the scriptures actually teach just because you WANT them to teach something else.
Quote (Lightenup @ June 30 2012,16:06) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 29 2012,00:02) Quote (Lightenup @ June 29 2012,08:30) BD, Quote is there ever any condition in which you see the words “ONE”, “ONLY” and “I” as being literal? According to you anyone could claim even several more gods all being the highest you already have 2 in the number 1 spot. Context rules. Jesus is the only 'Begotten' God. There are no others.
Can you show a scripture that says begotten God?
BD,John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
You say no one has seen God at any time so you agree that the disciples never saw God they saw Christ Jesus.You see even according to the scripture you present Jesus can't be God unless God has not only been seen but God was seen nailed to a cross.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 01 2012,00:30) Mike,
You said:Quote I still love you, but Asana is right – you are willing to bend your mind in any nonsensical direction it takes to hold on to your obviously flawed doctrine. I love you too!
Did you realise that Asana does not believe that Jesus is the Son of David?
Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of David?
I didn't say whether I believed it Jesus asked the question himself:Matthew 22:41-43
King James Version (KJV)
41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
Jesus is clearly saying he is not the son of David. What you also fail to understand is the usage of the word son usually meant “servant” This is why in the KJV translations you will see one call Jesus “son” in some verses and in the very same verses different translation it sill say “servant”
NKJV
Acts 4:30
by stretching out Your hand to heal, and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus.”same verse in KJV
Acts 4:30
By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.
Quote (Lightenup @ June 30 2012,16:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 29 2012,00:07) Quote (Lightenup @ June 29 2012,11:51) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 28 2012,19:34) No he can't, because if “The Most High God” is a unity, then it would be that unity who has a Son named Jesus. If only ONE has a Son named Jesus, then only ONE is “The Most High God”.
Mike,
Follow along:
If the United States is a unity, then it would be that unity that has a President named Obama.Obama is a member of the unity that he is a president of.
Jesus is a member of the unity that He is a son of.
Obama is the president within the unity called 'United States.'
Jesus is the Son within the unity called 'God Most High.'
Bt Obama is not called the United States of America. He iscalled the PRESIDENT now tell me how many presidents do we have?Obama is THE ONE and ONLY PRESIDENT of The United States
BD,
you asked:Quote Bt Obama is not called the United States of America. He is called the PRESIDENT now tell me how many presidents do we have? Obama is THE ONE and ONLY PRESIDENT of The United States
There is one and only one president within the unity called the United States.
There is one and only one vice-president within the unity called the United States.
There is one and only one Son within the unity called the Most High God.
There is one and only one Father within the unity called the Most High God.BD, I didn't realize that you live in the United States for some reason. What section?
Washington StateQuote (mikeboll64 @ July 01 2012,01:03) Quote (Lightenup @ June 30 2012,07:37) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 28 2012,14:40) You simply don't get many parts of the Bible Jesus declared that he was not the son of David but you don't understand. Mark 12:35-37
King James Version (KJV)
35 And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David?
36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
37 David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.
This i what I mean you don't look thoroughly, Tell me who Anointed “The Father”?
Bump for Mike.Mike do you see that Asana is saying that Jesus is not the Son of David in this bumped post?
Yes, Jesus is the son (descendent) of David, according to the flesh. (Romans 1:3)In Mark 12:35-37, Jesus was explaining that he is both the Root AND the Offspring of David. (Rev 22:16)
His point was not to tell the Pharisees that he wasn't the son of David, but to explain to them that scripturally, the Messiah had to be MORE than JUST the son of David, or David would have never called him “my Lord”.
Yes because he was receiving the throne of DavidLuke 1:32
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:My point exactly he is receiving the throne of another man who was also called “son of God” and his son Solomon was also called “son of God” Slomon however was literally and directly the son of David and literally his seed. Jesus was not born through an act of intercourse nd David certainly was not his Father except in expression of a servant of God
Quote (bodhitharta @ June 30 2012,16:21) Quote (Lightenup @ June 30 2012,16:06)
BD,John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
You say no one has seen God at any time so you agree that the disciples never saw God they saw Christ Jesus.You see even according to the scripture you present Jesus can't be God unless God has not only been seen but God was seen nailed to a cross.
Not to mention “begotten”.Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 01 2012,13:06) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 30 2012,16:21) Quote (Lightenup @ June 30 2012,16:06)
BD,John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
You say no one has seen God at any time so you agree that the disciples never saw God they saw Christ Jesus.You see even according to the scripture you present Jesus can't be God unless God has not only been seen but God was seen nailed to a cross.
Not to mention “begotten”.
Exactly…lolQuote (bodhitharta @ June 30 2012,16:33) Jesus is clearly saying he is not the son of David. What you also fail to understand is the usage of the word son usually meant “servant” You have the right idea, but the wrong word. The word in Acts 4:30 is “pais”, which means “boy”, and is often used of servants. Have you ever heard in a Mexican restaurant, “More water paison”? Those who say this are literally calling the waiter a “boy”, with the meaning of servant. Sort of like, “I'll send the boy up with your bags, sir” – only he's not talking about his literal son when he says this. He is talking about one of his servants.
Anyway, the word used in Mark 12:37 and Matthew 22:44 is “huios”, which is not used to refer to servants, but to actual sons.
Quote (bodhitharta @ June 30 2012,16:33) My point exactly he is receiving the throne of another man who was also called “son of God” and his son Solomon was also called “son of God” Slomon however was literally and directly the son of David and literally his seed. Jesus was not born through an act of intercourse nd David certainly was not his Father except in expression of a servant of God
Jesus is literally of the ancestry of David – according to the flesh – because his mother was Mary. The geneaologies are recorded in Matthew and Luke.Quote (bodhitharta @ June 30 2012,17:21) Quote (Lightenup @ June 30 2012,16:06) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 29 2012,00:02) Quote (Lightenup @ June 29 2012,08:30) BD, Quote is there ever any condition in which you see the words “ONE”, “ONLY” and “I” as being literal? According to you anyone could claim even several more gods all being the highest you already have 2 in the number 1 spot. Context rules. Jesus is the only 'Begotten' God. There are no others.
Can you show a scripture that says begotten God?
BD,John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
You say no one has seen God at any time so you agree that the disciples never saw God they saw Christ Jesus.You see even according to the scripture you present Jesus can't be God unless God has not only been seen but God was seen nailed to a cross.
BD,
Please tell me who the Begotten God is in John 1:18.BD,
Quote
I didn't say whether I believed it Jesus asked the question himself:So, do you believe that Jesus is the Son of David?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2012,21:06) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 30 2012,16:21) Quote (Lightenup @ June 30 2012,16:06)
BD,John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
You say no one has seen God at any time so you agree that the disciples never saw God they saw Christ Jesus.You see even according to the scripture you present Jesus can't be God unless God has not only been seen but God was seen nailed to a cross.
Not to mention “begotten”.
Mike,
Who is the begotten theos?Was the begotten theos nailed to a cross?
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