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Mike,
Quote There is only one story of the creation that I'm aware of, Princess Then you need to become more aware, Mike.
Quote I don't enjoy this discussion at all, since I can see that it truly hurts and insults you to be in the position you are in. In fact, I almost deleted my previous posts just to avoid hurting your feelings or making you feel bad, sad, or angry. But one can't run away from truth, for it will always catch up to him in the end. I agree that the truth will always be brougiht to the surface, however Mike one does not become a Princess by concerning her self with 'feelings'. ou
I understand why you interpret the scriptures as you do, however, there came a time in life where I asked myself, can the same happen to a man as does to a woman in scripture, did not come up with many differences. Let's use your example, a man gets raped, no mention made in the cannon of this, does not mean it did not happen, I tend to think the catholic church was covering such things up even at the beggining, however just a theory.
please excuse the break and any spelling errors, the post was submitted before I proof read.
to continue:
We are at a time in life Mike, where it does not matter who preaches or who teaches, male or female, the only thing that is of concern is either truth or not. Paul placed a lot of rules on life, however so did the pharisees, or over extended ones duties as being 'christ like'.
No one ever seem to mind the woman teaching Sunday School.
Personally Mike, it matters none to me what man or that fact woman thinks I should be or shouldn't, the only concern of mine is to be found in spirit and truth.
I am not a slave Mike, I have been set free for a while now.
Take care of yourself Mike, love to you and the ones that surround you.
It is interesting to note that when mankind fell, God cursed mankind. But he gave certain curses to male and others to female.
It was said that the man would have to work very hard in the land and yes man has worked very hard as the land had to be cultivated and farmed to produce enough, whereas before, paradise provided food naturally.
The woman would have increased pain in child birth and also the following:Yet your desire will be for your husband,
And he will rule over you.”So it looks to me that such a thing is the result of the woman who was deceived by the serpent losing a certain credibility. Paul picks up on this here:
1 Timothy 2:14
And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.However in all this, we know that Christ died to save us from the curse. And we are told that in Christ there is neither male nor female and God is no respecter of persons.
So the woman is restored through Christ, just as the man is. But we have certain unique restorations as well as many in common too.
Quote (princess @ July 31 2011,17:25) Mike, Quote There is only one story of the creation that I'm aware of, Princess Then you need to become more aware, Mike.
Enlighten me then. What other story of creation is told in the inspired written word of God?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 01 2011,09:53) There is only one story of the creation that I'm aware of, Princess. And that one involves a woman being produced from the rib of a man for the purpose of being the man's companion. I don't enjoy this discussion at all, since I can see that it truly hurts and insults you to be in the position you are in. In fact, I almost deleted my previous posts just to avoid hurting your feelings or making you feel bad, sad, or angry. But one can't run away from truth, for it will always catch up to him in the end.
I will tell you this: In the beginning, the woman came FROM man and was created FOR man. It is not long after this creation that it becomes clear from the scriptures that women were the possessions of men, who could do with them whatever they pleased. Was this because God held Eve accountable for giving the forbidden fruit to Adam? I don't know. I only know what I read in the scriptures, and they tell me that women were given away to others like property. They tell me that Israelite men were warned about the women of other nations, because those women would lead their hearts away from God. It was never told the other way around, Princess. The scriptures tell me that if a man raped a woman and decided not to marry her, he had to pay her dad a little money and all was forgiven.
But then we have stories of important women in scripture, through whom God saved Israel many times. And by the time of Jesus' earthly ministry, women were not pushed away from the gospel, but rather were welcomed members of the audience and seemingly just as loved and respected by Jesus as the men were.
At that time, no women were allowed to be Apostles, or even preach in the synagogues…………..but it was clear that women were in a higher place in the NT than in the OT.
And today we have many women preachers and minsters. Is this the course God intended? Was it always meant to be a gradual equalization? Or should we stick with the last words we consider to be inspired of God?
I don't know the answers, Princess. I don't personally understand how I could be any more loved by God, or be considered more worthy of Him than you are. I don't consider men to be smarter than women. Or more spiritual. Or understand why men would have a firmer grasp on heaven than women. Etc.
I can only go by what the scriptures teach me. And it seemed that you were letting your personal feelings veer you away from those scriptures. Accept yourself as the most humble little slave girl of God that there is – like Mary did – and I suspect that all will go well with you.
peace,
mike
Woman was created from the rib of man
She was not made from his head to top him
Nor from his feet, to be trampled on.
She was made from his side, to be equal to him
From under his arm to be protected by him
From near his heart to be loved by him.-author unknown-
Let me give my two cents. A woman is to be loved…. When the man loves a woman, He will not dominate Her, or make a slave out of Her. Since man came first, He has a responsibility towards a woman. She came from His rib, and why would He not love Her, it is really part of Him…. My personal womanly responsibility is to let my Husband have the last word, when it comes to any decisions about our daily lives. That way there will be peace always…. It has worked for us for 50 years now….
Peace and Love IreneQuote (princess @ July 26 2011,19:54) However, my true desire is to have KJ answer why he must prove jesus is god.
Bump for JackarooIf I remember right the trinity is three persons in one. I unfortunately taught all of our four Children the trinity a long time ago…
The Holy Spirit is not a person, it is the Spirit of Jehovah God….1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
I also find it ironic that those that believe in the trinity don't understand that a person cannot be in all born again Christians…..if the Holy Spirit is a person, which it is not….
There goes the trinity proven wrong….
Peace dn Love Irene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 01 2011,00:54) Quote (kerwin @ July 28 2011,22:50) Mike, I remember woman being created to be a help mate to man because man was lonely but I do not remember women being a possession. A slave is a possession.
Well Kerwin,Were wives romanced and courted and made to fall in love with their suitors? Or were they GIVEN to their husbands as possessions?
They were given BY men to other men all the time. Sometimes they were offered up to bad people to keep the MEN from becoming abused. And they called their husbands, “my lord”, which means “my master”.
Like I told Princess, I didn't make the rules. But I'm not about to go changing the truth of the scriptures just because it's not politically correct in our day and age.
peace,
mike
Mike,You offer examples and not rules. Scripture gives many accounts of those that did evil in the eye of the Lord and even about the rules Jesus taught us that certain allowances were made because of the hardness of the hearts of the people.
It is true that husbands were given authority over there wives and fathers over their children but that does not equate with slavery.
If I get time and the Spirit leads me to do so I may look into this as a later time.
Edited to correct spelling and add last sentence.
Deuteronomy 22:28
If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver.There is a rule, Kerwin.
Genesis 18:12
Sarah laughed to herself, saying, “ After I have become old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?”And there is an instance where Sarah called Abraham her master.
I'm done with this discussion, Kerwin. I believe t8's post summed it up very well.
Besides, this thread is suppose to be for Jack to explain why he must prove Jesus is God. And I'm anxiously awaiting his reason(s).
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 03 2011,09:04) Deuteronomy 22:28
If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver.There is a rule, Kerwin.
Genesis 18:12
Sarah laughed to herself, saying, “ After I have become old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?”And there is an instance where Sarah called Abraham her master.
I'm done with this discussion, Kerwin. I believe t8's post summed it up very well.
Besides, this thread is suppose to be for Jack to explain why he must prove Jesus is God. And I'm anxiously awaiting his reason(s).
mike
Mike,As you stated this topic is not the threads topic so I will not go into detail.
I do know that a man was fined the bride price of a woman he raped but I know there is more to what God said about that situation than that. The man could also be forced to mary the woman if the father decided to.
That fine or the forced marriage should be considered in the light of a eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
I already stated the husband has authority over the wife which is why Sarah called Abram lord.
I am not sure if that was any different than calling him master or what either title means in the context it was used.
Thank you for the converrsation.
Note: edited to add last sentence and end this conversation as per Mike's request.
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 03 2011,00:08) The man could also be forced to mary the woman if the father decided to.
Kerwin,That was the whole point. A man could rape a woman against her will, and the BEST she could hope for was that he married her.
2 Samuel 13
14 But he refused to listen to her, and since he was stronger than she, he raped her.15 Then Amnon hated her with intense hatred. In fact, he hated her more than he had loved her. Amnon said to her, “Get up and get out!”
16 “No!” she said to him. “Sending me away would be a greater wrong than what you have already done to me.”
This is what I was saying, Kerwin. Tamar could not go to the police. Amnon was in no trouble. There was no punishment required by the law for raping Tamar. No jail time. Nothing. Tamar could HOPE that he kept her as his wife after raping her, but that's the BEST she could hope for.
Women were possessions, Kerwin. They were bought and sold and given by men to other men. They personally had no say in these matters.
Do you NOW understand my point?
mike
Not at all, Princess.
I've explained how I personally feel in my last post to you. And I think t8 explained things perfectly in his post. Both genders were equally redeemed through Jesus, and both genders are equally acceptable for an eternal life in heaven or on the new earth.
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 05 2011,15:51) Not at all, Princess. I've explained how I personally feel in my last post to you. And I think t8 explained things perfectly in his post. Both genders were equally redeemed through Jesus, and both genders are equally acceptable for an eternal life in heaven or on the new earth.
peace,
mike
Princess,Mike left out that both genders have equal roles. This infers that Christ has an equal role with God for Christ's submission to God was the model for the wife's submission to her husband. If Christ is still subordinate to God, then the wife is still subordinate to her husband.
It was under Moses that both Christ was subordinate to God and the wife was subordinate to the husband. However, Moses has passed away.
But you can't expect a novice like Sonnyboll to grasp this.
KJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 06 2011,04:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 05 2011,15:51) Not at all, Princess. I've explained how I personally feel in my last post to you. And I think t8 explained things perfectly in his post. Both genders were equally redeemed through Jesus, and both genders are equally acceptable for an eternal life in heaven or on the new earth.
peace,
mike
Princess,Mike left out that both genders have equal roles. This infers that Christ has an equal role with God for Christ's submission to God was the model for the wife's submission to her husband. If Christ is still subordinate to God, then the wife is still subordinate to her husband.
It was under Moses that both Christ was subordinate to God and the wife was subordinate to the husband. However, Moses has passed away.
But you can't expect a novice like Sonnyboll to grasp this.
KJ
Princess,Since Mikey insists that Christ has an inferior role to God, then he MUST BE HONEST and tell you that you have an inferior role to your husband.
KJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 06 2011,11:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 05 2011,15:51) Not at all, Princess. I've explained how I personally feel in my last post to you. And I think t8 explained things perfectly in his post. Both genders were equally redeemed through Jesus, and both genders are equally acceptable for an eternal life in heaven or on the new earth.
peace,
mike
Princess,Mike left out that both genders have equal roles. This infers that Christ has an equal role with God for Christ's submission to God was the model for the wife's submission to her husband. If Christ is still subordinate to God, then the wife is still subordinate to her husband.
It was under Moses that both Christ was subordinate to God and the wife was subordinate to the husband. However, Moses has passed away.
But you can't expect a novice like Sonnyboll to grasp this.
KJ
KJyou must belong to hippy religion ,having those ideas
is inconceivable ,in truth ,KJ ? do not move I send you a white cane right now it is on his way.
Pierre
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 06 2011,04:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 05 2011,15:51) Not at all, Princess. I've explained how I personally feel in my last post to you. And I think t8 explained things perfectly in his post. Both genders were equally redeemed through Jesus, and both genders are equally acceptable for an eternal life in heaven or on the new earth.
peace,
mike
Princess,Mike left out that both genders have equal roles. This infers that Christ has an equal role with God for Christ's submission to God was the model for the wife's submission to her husband. If Christ is still subordinate to God, then the wife is still subordinate to her husband.
It was under Moses that both Christ was subordinate to God and the wife was subordinate to the husband. However, Moses has passed away.
But you can't expect a novice like Sonnyboll to grasp this.
KJ
KJ,Good analogy there KJ. To compare men and woman to god and jesus, in the ways of submission. I am impressed. Tis good to see you come into your own. Very good indeed to see, that you stood up to WJ, and held firm that you were correct (re: Irene/LU)
Ever so, KJ, you have me a bit gun shy, either you are setting me up again, or using me to get to Mike. It does not seem your intentions are pure. I dearly love you KJ, I hold nothing against you, however, you will have to get Mike to submit to your statement by directly speaking with him.
Do take care of yourself KJ.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 06 2011,05:01) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 06 2011,04:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 05 2011,15:51) Not at all, Princess. I've explained how I personally feel in my last post to you. And I think t8 explained things perfectly in his post. Both genders were equally redeemed through Jesus, and both genders are equally acceptable for an eternal life in heaven or on the new earth.
peace,
mike
Princess,Mike left out that both genders have equal roles. This infers that Christ has an equal role with God for Christ's submission to God was the model for the wife's submission to her husband. If Christ is still subordinate to God, then the wife is still subordinate to her husband.
It was under Moses that both Christ was subordinate to God and the wife was subordinate to the husband. However, Moses has passed away.
But you can't expect a novice like Sonnyboll to grasp this.
KJ
Princess,Since Mikey insists that Christ has an inferior role to God, then he MUST BE HONEST and tell you that you have an inferior role to your husband.
KJ
KJ,I don't have a husband. He choose another path, one that I could not follow or fight. However, it was a long time ago.
So that makes your statement null and void with me.
Princess
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